Texas Valley Residents Count On Law that Predates U.S.-Mexico Border to Stop Border Fence

LatinaLista — Throughout the debate over the construction of a wall along the U.S.-Mexico border, critics have long enjoyed defending their stance by saying that it’s within the “legal rights” of the country to defend its borders.
Well, there are some other legal rights that go way back before there ever was a border between Texas and Mexico — in the form of Spanish land grants.
In the tiny Texas town of Granjeno, roughly 450 residents will be the latest group along the Texas-Mexico border to challenge Homeland Security’s insistence on building a border wall through their town. Yet, these Valley residents aren’t going to rely on environmental impact studies or even popular opinion to drive their point home.

They’re going to go by the letter of the law — 1767 Spanish civil law.


According to Yolanda Martinez, Granjeno’s unofficial historian, the government doesn’t have a legal leg to stand on when it comes to confiscating land to build the border wall.

Yolanda Martinez signs border wall petition letter.
(Source: Rio Grande Guardian)

It seems Granjeno was established by Spain’s King Carlos III when he granted three “porciones” (portions) of land to Ramon Munguia and Nicolas Bocanegra. Families intermarried and stayed on the land.

“Texas passed legislation to protect Spanish land grants in 1840 and again in1852 when the Guadalupe Hidalgo Treaty was signed by the United States and Mexico,” Martinez told the Guardian, after the meeting.
“We still reside on our land grants. We never left our property. Because our land is still governed by Spanish civil law, it should have some weight.”
Martinez said the state of Texas uses Spanish civil law which it suits its case. She cited rules governing tidelands, homestead law, community property, public access to roads, rivers, coastal areas, and cemeteries.
Martinez said many of the original Spanish land grant holders lost their properties soon after the Civil War. She said punitive damages should have been paid to such landowners under a legal challenge settled in 1942.
“They have not compensated us to this day. As long as those damages are not paid us, this is our land,” Martinez said. “There is no question in my mind that we are protected under Spanish civil law, which controls to this date all Spanish and Mexican land grant property.”

Homeland Security wants to build the fence on the north side of the city’s levee. That would cut through the homes of 34 families.
The actions of the government are making people in Granjeno mad. At a recent town hall meeting, all those who came clustered around the tables to sign the petition against the wall.

(Source: Rio Grande Guardian)
The residents of Granjeno are counting on the rule of law to keep their land and town together. It may only count as sentimental value to the government but to these residents its their family history that is at stake.
If the government were to ignore the land grant rights of the people of Granjeno, it would be another example of how the government rewrites history to make it fit its needs.
Ignoring the Spanish land grants of the townspeople would also lead to an old-fashioned showdown between the government and the town over which law takes precedence — one that was passed over 200 years ago or one that passed months ago.
One that enabled generations to claim a birthright and the other that wants to take it all away.

“We have state rights protected under legislated law. Land patents are respected and acknowledged by federal law in the 13 original colonies, as are Indian Grants. Please hear our pleas and save our heritage, history, and ailing souls.”

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33 Comments

  1. Diana Joe said:

    Coming back from the Apache rez this weekend my husband and I stopped to admire the gorgeous Salt River Canyon..its petroglyphed rocks, and many, many other natural histories written by the hand of our CREATOR and OUR indigenous “FATHERS AND MOTHERS”….we noted too that certain little forest-tucked communes were “founded” by yep you guessed it-The Horaces and Gromits(frankly) around 1868-70′s and so forth..-we laughed so hard because the truth isn’t the truth and DIVIDE AND CONQUER is still alive and kept well for those that have the money to take over!
    -The mountains, and all the other indigenous sources are speaking for us-none of us little folk need worry any longer-we are the children of the SUN!!!!!
    -”they” run scared senseless that the lies and the whips no longer work-no mo’ beatings master no mo’!
    “Founded” is the other name for “stole it”.
    The Navajo were forced by gunpoint to WALK 400 plus miles to Ft. Sumner,where they were kept for (4) four years-corraled by the US. Government..while their land was simultaneously and all too sadly “reduced”, and “redrawn” with boundaries to accomodate the “founders”..and Geronimo was also driven away ,and rediculed in Oklahoma..MEXICATLS are AMERICAN born peoples…but theys Horatios and fracacios trying like the dickens to say different.
    Oh, and if Whoreus and Franklysatined want to challenge the use of the ENGLISH tongue come talk to the TRIBAL leaders..of certain NORTH AMERICAN TRIBES-
    they wouldn’t dare,but theres the MEXICATLS-theys dumb and ignorant-and they have too many babies..and nobody loves em’ anyway.And if we allow these imbeciles like Frunk and Hurace to undermine us we will see the MINUTEMENSOS take over just like the time at the BOSTON TEA PARTIES-
    You will not placate us never more!

  2. Frank said:

    Uh, I don’t know of any white Americans or other Americans that have anything against the native indians living among us, so what are you talking about? Most of the tribes I live around own much property and are very successful operating their casinos. I had the highest respect for the members of the tribe that I worked for.
    You are being very arrogant and racist acting like native indians are God’s chosen people. What makes you better than anyone else?

  3. miguel said:

    This is a sample of the alternative viewpoint:
    ‘Shoot, Shovel, Shut Up’
    http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=763
    “An army of illegal aliens, including criminals, drug smugglers, and terrorists, is invading our country,” declares the Indiana Federation for Immigration Reform and Enforcement.
    “America is being destroyed by a modern version of Genghis Khan’s army,” according to the Emigration Party of Nevada, whose leader, Donald Pauly, has called for the Department of Homeland Security to station “sniper teams” on the border and demanded that Latino womenapprehended by the U.S. Border Patrol be forced to undergo sterilization so that America does not become a “Third World sewer.”
    The most radical and widespread rogue Minuteman group is the so-called Minuteman of One, which consists of at least three chapters in Arizona, two in California and one in Texas. More of an extremist creed than a hierarchal organization, Minuteman of One was founded by Fred Puckett, who was expelled from the original Minuteman operation for, among other things, violating rules against openly carrying assault rifles (the original Minuteman Project restricted volunteers to handguns only).
    “We don’t have no by-laws, we don’t have nothin’,” Puckett told a Phoenix television news crew last April. “We go out in two-man teams and we hit them like we did 40 years ago in Vietnam.”
    Puckett has since distributed videos of himself and other Minuteman of One members displaying and shooting a small arsenal of assault rifles, ransacking vehicles, and shouting death threats at immigrants fleeing in the desert.
    “Once you shoot a few of these sons of bitches, they’ll think twice,” Puckett says on camera.
    The online forum hosted by the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps, the single largest nativist extremist organization in the country, with 34 chapters in 27 states, publicized several calls last November for the U.S. government to place land mines and machine gun towers on the border. One Minuteman advised other members to keep a supply of quick lime on hand to hasten the decomposition of corpses. Another summed up his policy recommendations most succinctly: “Shoot, shovel, and shut up.”
    SSS appears to be more that just talking about shooting stray dogs that invade the chicken coop.

  4. Frank said:

    Daniel, sorry but I am not a rednecked racist. I just stand up for the rule of law. Why do you find fault with that?

  5. David O. said:

    Dear Frank,
    No one called you a redneck, and the fact remains that there are many racist groups who are taking matters into their own hands. More importantly I don’t see the outrage from you or Master Horace condemning these groups for flaunting our laws.

  6. Diana Joe said:

    Divide and Conquer-its written all over the land…marks.
    Indian Casinos is just another sick form of taking over the lands of the indins. The indin plays his measly earnings at the casino,gets drunker when he realizes that he’s{within a couple hours} going home broke,feeling completely LOST he hangs his head in SHAME… takes a walk to the outhouse to hang himself-GO TO HELL CASINO!
    GET OUT OF THE RESERVATIONS!
    Casinos are the other NUCLEAR POWER PLANT-it is toxic to place these on indin lands,and everybody that invests on these knows this!
    ITS ABOUT MONEY!
    its about money!
    -its about that good ol’ money/
    The only reason indians allowed CASINOS is because they were {geniusly coerced}or tempted to TRY to do better for themselves- How in hell do explain how a community that is riddled with economic(HISTORICAL and GENERATIONALLY
    INFLICTED TRUAMAS)and social deficiencies going to prosper with yet another ADDICTION?
    - In the Dine’ creation stories the holy dieties WARNED the humans (The Five Fingered) to beware of GAMBLING-so most traditional medicine people are opposed to the CASINO!!! But guess what boys the puppet governing agents at the tribal offices are going with the flow! There is no fruitfulness-There are no stories in indigenous cultures that talk about CASINOS-so they are not WELCOMED..these casinos are a mainstreamed linear mentality..imagine spending all your weeks’ earnings on one STUPID MACHINE in hopes that you’ll hit it big!?
    - The chances of hitting the big times on a machine are about as good as suggesting to President Bush and CONGRESS that the “Rule Of Law”..isn’t covering the MINORITIES-still, and that he (the Pres)urgently needs to IMPRISON all the minutemensos,and their wives-and their children!
    The Ku Klux Klans were “allowed” by the GOVERNMENTS OF THESE UNITED STATES to flourish and to intimidate,and to kill AMERICANS for several decades! They lynched, and burned, and they bombed people, places, and things of the colored-how can you Hiccup and Franklystained make a separation from then and now? If it weren’t for the PAST we as humans would not have the beauty of this day,and indigenous and humbled people honor their PAST! We honor the past because it has been through our ancestry and our AMAZING ability to SURVIVE GENOCIDE tactics-that we stand UNITED today! You tell me that i speak of indin folk as being the chosen peopleof GOD?-well frankly theres’ a subject that would send you running off to speculate some on your rule of law again, and I’d rather just let you alone fo’ now master…coz I gots to go gamble or drinks me something. Something that you might have masterminded for me…maybees so.
    give it break al;{ready!

  7. Frank said:

    David, thats because the subject is illegal immigration, not racism. You and yours just want to link them together to support your agenda.
    I am opposed to all racism. Why would you even have to ask?

  8. Frank said:

    Diana, as you well know the tribes are making millions off of their casinos. Just about every ethnic group gambles. One has to exercise self control when doing so. It is ones own personal responsiblity. I don’t blame the tribes for doing something to improve their lives. I am not going to pass moral judgement on them. If you want to, that is your proagative.
    I suggest you stop living in the past. It is making you irrational and hateful.

  9. flower said:

    When the Pilgrims first came to America, they had nowhere to live and nowhere to buy food. So they had to build homes and grow food to eat. they were LUCKY that the FRIENDLY INDIANS helped them. The Indians brought food and taught them how to pop corn. There was so much food, so much company, so much to be thankful for!, so they make a big feast; this was the first Thanksgiving. Now imagine, if the indians would told our grandfather and granmother that they came here illegal; so, they had to be punished because they broke the law.
    Now, there are not friendly Indians around, Most of then was killed by us.
    Now, there are some xenophobic folks around but they forgot their grandparents were illegal immigrants (Pilgrims) too.
    So, if your ancestors were Pilgrims, what are you claiming for? your parents born from illegal parents too.

  10. Frank said:

    My ancestors didn’t come here until the early 1900′s. They came through Ellis Island. They were not illegal aliens. Prior to that there were no immigration laws. Our ancestor’s pasts have nothing to do with those of us alive today. We didn’t make their decisions for them. Since then the U.S. was formed as a sovereign nation with immigration laws. I will not be held accountable for any ancestors sins and I live in the present, not the past. The past is not justification for dishonoring our immigration laws of today.

  11. flower said:

    Your totally wrong.
    Ellis Island came from Europe to New York City between 1892-1952, they came looking for food and a better life like every immigrant does. About 12 millions european illegals immigrants (Ellis Island) arrived in New York Port. The US goverment granted them with legal status for
    all them. Now, lets change the New York port for the border, there are 12 millions illegal immigrants came from the border looking for food and a better life, but now the Ellis Island children are punishing all them.
    Your Ellis Island ancestor broke the law but the goverment gave them a second change and everybody won.
    Thank your parents broke the law you have a better life here. Be aware that you are a product from illegal parents too.
    You don’t take sins from your parents, same is happening with 1.2 millions undocument children who wants an oportunity to be sucessfull and praise our country.

  12. Frank said:

    This whole argument that what happened eons ago with immigrants past should apply today in spite of NEW immigration laws is ridiculous. Things changed as did our ways of handling immigrants both legal and illegal today vs yesterday.
    With your logic, this country has no right to make changes in policy just because yesterday a policy was different.
    Back then we were a vast open frontier with plenty of space left and plentiful natural resources, not so today. That is one of the reasons that we put limits on immigration today whereas we didn’t need to yesterday. Why are you people so blind and lack common sense?

  13. David O. said:

    “Why are you people so blind and lack common sense?”
    We maybe because we are Mexican and that is how you see us?

  14. Frank said:

    I am talking about anyone who is pro-illegal, not just Mexicans. It is only about the illegal immigration issue, nothing more.

  15. miguel said:

    Frank, Your thoughts on this article.
    Accepted racism in America is not limited to Arabs and Muslims. After all, the supposed “immigration crisis” Congress is constantly trying to scare us into believing has spawned a newer, more confident “white nativism” with devastating consequences for Latinos. This is most obvious in the movement of “the Minutemen,” a racist terrorist group that has gained legitimacy thanks to the scaremongering of president Bush and Congress. Their members have a new approach to the immigration “problem.” According to the Southern Poverty Law Center, one member simply said “Just shoot ‘em on sight. That’s my immigration policy recommendation. You break into my country, you die.” Rep. Tom Tancredo called these men “heroes,” according to the SPLC report.
    Article Here!

  16. Frank said:

    miguel, its an opinon piece of pro-illegal propaganda of which I disagree with and has several lies in it.

  17. miguel said:

    Frank, If you would please point out the pro-illegal part. It just looked like a compilation of previously published hate events. Which parts had the lies. I can understand if you choose not to answer.
    Thank you for your indulgence.

  18. Frank said:

    miguel, just read alone the paragraphs that you quoted. Full of lies and open borders propaganda.
    Just for starters the MM aren’t terrorists.
    White nativism? I would call it American nativism. Nothing wrong with it. Another lie.

  19. miguel said:

    Frank, Thanks for the response. You are in line with the examples. Needed you to confirm your position on these facts.

  20. Frank said:

    miguel, speaking of nativism. You do know that Mexicans in Mexico are among the most nativist anywhere in the world, don’t you? I see it as national preservation. Preserving one’s country’s natural culture, language and heritage. Sorry, but I don’t see anything negative about that.

  21. David O. said:

    Which natural culture, language and heritage do you mean? The one in Minnesota with it’s northern european population?
    Or perhaps the Black culture of the inner cities? Or are you referring to the culture of Northern California? Maybe the cowboy culture in Texas?

  22. Frank said:

    American culture is identified by the English language and a basic identity we have had since this country was founded with only slight variations. Those variations don’t include a foreign language or foreign cultures practiced by unassimilating immigrants in our country today.

  23. David O. said:

    “unassimilating immigrants”?
    What in tarnation do you mean? Do you mean the Irish and their St. Patrick’s Day Parades? The German’s and their beer festivals? The Mennonites and Amish and their brand of living?
    Or do you mean the Mexicans?

  24. flower said:

    12 millions undocumented people (Ellis Island) meant 16% of 75 millions Americans.
    Now, 12 millions undocumented people mean 4% of 288 millions Americans.
    why in that time they din’t say was too many immigrants?
    16% is four times more than today undocumented population.
    There are plenty land we have, there are plenty resource we can exploit. If you take a interstate trip you will see all the spaces we have.
    I learned from the past to be better in the future.
    Change is part of the life, change is based in reality, and the reality is we have undocumented workers who paid taxes and improve our economy; as our ancestros did we should give them a legal status.

  25. Frank said:

    David, do you hear German being spoken everywhere in this country all the time? How about ads everywhere in German? A one day ethnic celebration isn’t being unassimilating. Hispanics get a whole month now and all the Spanish we hear now is directly due to illegal aliens from Spanish speaking countries. Citizen Hispanics are usually bi-lingual.
    flower, one of the reasons we could take in more immigrants when Ellis Island was in operation is that we were still a vast frontier with plenty of natural resources to go around. We were still building this country. Policies have to change with circumstances and with the times.
    You haven’t a clue what “carrying capacity” of a nation is, do you? We are already above that. It isn’t just about open barren land. Go to susps.org for an education.
    Illegal aliens are only a reality because our government failed to enforce our immigration laws. This “reality” isn’t natural. We have plenty of citizens to contribute to our economy. We don’t need a population driven economy via illegal immigraton without considering the carrying capacity of this nation. It will destroy us in the end. Quality of life is more important to me than money.

  26. Simone said:

    Why do the authors think American Indians were ever
    united with people south of the border? It’s not true.
    You are only fooling yourselves but not others.
    Americans want a fence!
    —————————-
    Geronimo in his own words:
    http://odur.let.rug.nl/~usa/B/geronimo/geronixx.htm
    http://odur.let.rug.nl/~usa/B/geronimo/geroni7.htm
    Many women and children were carried away at different times by Mexicans. Not many of them ever returned, and those who did underwent many hardships in order to be again united with their people. Those who did not escape were slaves to the Mexicans, or perhaps even more degraded.
    When warriors were captured by the Mexicans they were kept in chains. Four warriors who were captured once at a place north of Casa Grande, called by the Indians Honas, were kept in chains for a year and a half, when they were exchanged for Mexicans whom we had captured.
    We never chained prisoners or kept them in confinement, but they seldom got away. Mexican men when captured were compelled to cut wood and herd horses. Mexican women and children were treated as our own people.

  27. Horace said:

    Thanks Simone, for helping to debunk the myth that Mexicans are simply innocent victims, and not culpable for predations on this continent.

  28. diana joe said:

    let me guess Simon-you’re APACHE huh?
    You probably have never ran across the fact that Pancho Villa and Geronimo rode side by side in an attempt to TAKE back-what the CONQUISTADORES-wanna be Mexicatls- had stolen from all their peoples…including LAND! You obviously needed to do a whole lot of searching for an indin agent huh harass-? Did you forget how the goon patrols were used by the government in the early 70′s during- the incident at Ogalala?!I’ve heard it all simon, and if you think that pairing up with the likes of harass and his cronies is going to upset anything on this blog perhaps you should go to your tribal officers(if you have any)..and tell em’ what kind of noise you’re attempting to make-don’t even start with the indins-unless you can produce highly qualified statements from medicine people themselves!
    It is a time for healing here, and if that isn’t your idea simon then you best look me up in the real world and sit with me in the sweat lodge!
    We can discuss your links in there-A~ho!
    Divide and Conquer is exactly what the government used against the peoples of the indin nations. They were made to feud amongst one, and the other-that is why to this day you see different sections of certain Native American tribes devasted by severe forms of domestic discord amongst their own kinds..did you think that you were going to assist the tribes with you’re research simon?
    What many of you sad souls don’t know is that us native american peoples know better than to believe the lies anymore forever-
    “Americans want a fence” is EXACTLY what DIVIDE AND CONQUER means!
    As a matter of fact you don’t stand a chance in a real indigenous call simon-good luck hangin’ with hoax…darn i meant horace.
    The history books will be remade, they will be revised, and this time true accounts of the true founders of these nations will be given.

  29. Simone said:

    diane joe
    My ancestors were Mimbreno Apaches!
    Grant County NM. I don’t use my real name.
    There is no way Geronimo rode with Pancho Villa!
    Where did you get this information?
    Have any proof to offer?
    The information I gave is from Geronimo’s own hand.
    Did you know that Geronimo’s entire family was murdered by Mexican soldiers? And that one year later Geronimo entered Mexico and killed these soldiers?
    That is why all his life he hated Mexicans.
    Don’t even try to say that Mexicans and American Indians were great friends.
    That is a big lie!
    Mexicans crossed the border to the U.S. it was never their territory.
    Even today they lie.
    The Mexican Flag stood on U.S. soil a mere 26 years.
    THATS RIGHT DIANA JOE
    Geronimo and Mangas Coloradas would want a fence today.
    Read about the Santa Rita
    NM attack by whites and Mexicans on innocent Apaches there in the 1800′s. Only 4 Mexicans made it home to Mexico.

  30. Simone said:

    diane joe
    My ancestors were Mimbreno Apaches!
    Grant County NM. I don’t use my real name.
    There is no way Geronimo rode with Pancho Villa!
    Where did you get this information?
    Have any proof to offer?
    The information I gave is from Geronimo’s own hand.
    Did you know that Geronimo’s entire family was murdered by Mexican soldiers? And that one year later Geronimo entered Mexico and killed these soldiers?
    That is why all his life he hated Mexicans.
    Don’t even try to say that Mexicans and American Indians were great friends.
    That is a big lie!
    Mexicans crossed the border to the U.S. it was never their territory.
    Even today they lie.
    The Mexican Flag stood on U.S. soil a mere 26 years.
    THATS RIGHT DIANA JOE
    Geronimo and Mangas Coloradas would want a fence today.
    Read about the Santa Rita
    NM attack by whites and Mexicans on innocent Apaches there in the 1800′s. Only 4 Mexicans made it home to Mexico.

  31. diana joe said:

    So I take it you read all about yourself-thats great simon.
    “Don’t even (TRY) to say that Mexicans and American Indians were great friends”
    -perhaps that is what you want to believe simon that its a big lie?
    Good for you…if that is what makes you function and feel good about yourself, and your life today-then i suppose that i have no chance to sit with you, and that might be best for you too?
    Promote ,and continue to perpetuate the HATE that you say GERONIMO had towards the MEXICANS-you might end up with a good case of ulcers!
    In this way I know you have taken off your mask.
    And I bet you also read that G-E-R-O-N-I-M-O is pronounced that way- the way the websters’say it should ,and therefore has to be?!
    If you are solid certain that Jeronimo is how you say he was, why then did he accept his SPANISH name?
    Y tambien Mangas Coloradas-were they named at will or beaten by the Mexican sellouts? Or maybe you should read up on your naming ceremonies-unfortunately at times called “BAPTISM” in some well-influenced NEW MEXICAN communes.
    Could there be a possibility that Jeronimo was his own person, and not your puppet or any one else’s?
    It does not bother me in the very least that you would attempt to cross my spirit by telling tale that only (4) four Mexicans made it back to Mexico! Good for them?
    Or good for you? Even to this day Pancho Villa is a villan in Nuevo Mejiko ,and is and will always be a hero in the heart of the indin peoples that he attempted to comfort by giving back to them..what was stolen from them..by the espainnerds.
    The difference between truly living with the old ways is that amazingly no one ever made reference to friar accounts.
    The learnings came lovingly from the g-mas, and g-pas direct/-{i have elders that speak of the REVOLUTION-it was an exciting time filled with mystery and courage!} So here is where your edjumacation, and mine are to be discussed in the lodge.
    In the long run you might be left to feel calmed and renewed…the HEALING starts today!
    Lift up your staff, and walk with us to reverse the historical trauma-while you have a chance.
    I challenged you to bring your TRUTH into the lodges-you forgot to give me the facts on that-haven’t read about the temascallis eh?!-Oh no theres nothing written on that yet-Thank goodness…
    How good are you with you’re oral accounts simon?
    Will that be Red or Green?
    New Mejico aka NEW sPAIN/never was never will be-
    When one goes outside of the tourist guides, and pamphlets,and the brochures..there exists a possibility to “SEE” and to “know” the people with their own accounts-oral stories.
    The most beautiful part of knowing your indin-is knowing your indin.
    The only true thing about New Mexico were and are its beautiful roots connecting them to the oringinal inhabitants of those land areas-indigenas.In the early ways all the peoples were constantly migrating-yep like the animal nations do today?! Look closely at how the MONARCH PAPALOTLs migrate all the way to CANADO from the volcanoes in Tenochtitlan! Something as fragile as a butterfly has migrated from time immemorial! You must remember the beauty aspects of your indin-not what has beeb ingrained in your heart through the book-including the BIBLE.
    There was NEVER a BORDER with these lands simon, and I see that you were born when the DIVISIONS-and sad segragation took effect? It wasn’t until just a little whiles agoes that the Border Patrol Agency early 1900′s decided to enforce its patrol at the region of the El Paso area. There was no such thing as fences or walls. In the 1800′s the indin leaders of those times were indeed going through severe, and inhumane treatments (and still almost nothing has changed)imposed upon them through vicious forms of military control-imposed upon them by the US. CAVALRY that is.
    The Mexicans that joined in the battles ,and the mistreatments upon other humans were and have always been “sellouts”. The money motives have played a great part in buying the souls of people-The espainnerds were known to be so greedy that they did not give a care about who or how they conquered, and who they used along the way to reinforce their MANIFEST DESTInyIes!
    Try and get your truth adjusted simon, it really isn’t difficult to tear-away from the frair accounts.
    The mission trail began way the heck up by Peru and continues CLEARLY down, and through all the way into what is today called the New Mexico region, the Arizona regions The Californias, and Tejas…and so on and so forth. I am not going to play historian to you simon-you are indeed devoted to the Rule of Law which Jeronimo would have X-ed out..because he would have forseen the demise of the spirit of the peoples!
    No indin leader would have accepted a wall-dont be a sellout simon,but then again Horace and Frank might be able to make use of you.
    Thanks for your spirit too simone. It is through the spirit of the ones on the opposite side of this red road that we are able to stay in prayer , and through you we know and acquire new hope.
    Geronimo has living relatives-have you counseled with them-about how you speak of their elder?(“Geronimo and Mangas Coloriadas would want a fence today”)-
    If not I can arrange it.
    In the indin way we have to insist that you go far and away from perpetuating hate…the sick way—->and we do so
    for the good of all five-fingered beings.

  32. Simone said:

    Diane joe
    I’m glad you enjoy living in your Mexican fantasy world
    regarding the American southwest.
    There was always a border between Mexico and the U.S.
    due to the fact that Apaches never cared for foreigners entering their homeland.
    That is why there were not many Mexicans in the American southwest.
    They had to cross the border to get here.
    The only Mexicans “Goyahkla” (Geronimo) accepted were Mexican kids that were raised in his tribe and these kids were extremely loyal to him.
    By the way they were in the tribe because they were kidnapped.
    Are you aware that the Mexican government offered large bounties on Apache scalps?
    100 dollars for Apache males.
    50 dollars for Apache females.
    25 dollars for the scalpes of children.
    Here is the story of the 4 Mexicans that made it back to Mexico.
    http://www.southernnewmexico.com/Articles/Southwest/Grant/SantaRita-Thetownthatvani.html
    Geronimo must be turning in his grave with the notion that he rode with Pancho Villa!
    God forbid!

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