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Latina Lista: News from the Latinx perspective > Life Issues > Children > New Report Documents Impact of Immigration Raids on the Children Left Behind

New Report Documents Impact of Immigration Raids on the Children Left Behind

LatinaLista — It’s a telling coincidence that today of all days the National Council of La Raza would release a new report that is downright scary!
Paying the Price: The Impact of Immigration Raids on America’s Children is documentation for the first time on how severely impacted children are by seeing their parents either taken into federal custody or waiting for them, only to never arrive due to being caught in immigration raids.

This report spells out not only the initial impact of the event on these children but underscores the long-term effect that will haunt these children into their adulthood.
The sad thing is it doesn’t have to be this way.


The report, which is co-authored by the nonpartisan Urban Institute, looked at three communities where ICE had conducted large-scale worksite raids: Greeley, Colorado, Grand Island, Nebraska and New Bedford, Massachusetts.
In these raids, 506 children were directly affected.
As is popularly, almost stereotypically, known, Latino families, especially those comprised of immigrant parents, are very close. To think that the sudden departure of a parent, without a chance to say good-bye, would not be traumatic for any child reveals a callous public policy targeting children of undocumented immigrant parents.
As the report shows, the children suffer greatly:

Children experienced the emotional trauma of their parents’ sudden absence, often personalizing the cause of the separation and feeling abandoned or fearful that their parents could be abruptly taken away from them.
Mental health experts noted that children’s and parents’ fears and the events surrounding the raids led to depression, post-traumatic stress disorder, separation anxiety, and suicidal thoughts in children.

The researchers found that while the majority of children remained behind with a second parent, there were some children who were left alone. In Grand Island, 17% of the children impacted by the raids had both of their parents arrested.

Some of the youngest children left behind in the MA immigration raids.
(Source: boston.com)

In essence, these children left without a parent are orphaned, and what makes it worse is that it is a government sanctioned policy.
While it’s true that it’s rare for a parent who is arrested will voluntarily give up his/her children, it doesn’t erase the fact that there has to be a federal policy in place that takes into account the children.
There needs to be policy on how to conduct a home raid or one that is conducted in front of children so that the trauma is not as severe when seeing their fathers and mothers forced down on the ground or against the wall and handcuffed and taken away.
There needs to be a policy that takes into account that if a child is so distraught during a witnessed raid, that there is a mental health professional, who can speak the “comfortable language” of the child and treat that child on-site, at that moment to minimize the trauma.
The NCLR/Urban Institute report offers several recommendations to local, state and federal officials on what should be in place before targeted worksite raids are conducted.
They are common sense suggestions but all require something that Homeland Security has not been willing to do in the past — be a team player with more than the local law enforcement agencies.

ICE should assume that children will be affected whenever adults are arrested in worksite enforcement operations and should develop a consistent policy for handling detained parents.
Congress should provide oversight of immigration enforcement activities to ensure that children are protected and should also consider providing resources to school systems and local agencies that respond to children’s needs.
Schools should develop systems to ensure that children have a safe place to go in the event of a school-hours raid.
Social services and other public agencies should prepare plans to respond to immigration raids and develop outreach strategies to assure parents and other caregivers that it is safe to seek emergency assistance and support for children under such circumstances.

It’s a fine line between being sensitive to children’s well-being and enforcing the law. But that is what marks the difference between great nations and developing countries that let fear and intimidation rule instead of compassion and common sense.
NCLR is asking Congress to hold hearings as soon as possible regarding the status of children already affected and who will be affected by future worksite immigration raids.
Otherwise, as this study clearly shows, the long-term emotional and financial costs to the country may be much higher than a plane ticket for a quickie deportation.

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Comment(59)

  • Avatar
    Horace
    October 31, 2007 at 5:50 pm

    I find it appalling that foreign nationals would abandon their children just because they were born in the USA. However, I do know of many families who, after coming over on work visa and having had children here (read citizens), return to their homelands without fuss, and believe it or not, actually love their children enough to retain responsibility for them (read take them home to their countries of origin). Deported illegal aliens with citizen children are still responsible for their children even though they themselves have been deported. Honestly, Marisa, what is the Hispanic family coming to?

  • Avatar
    George
    October 31, 2007 at 5:58 pm

    Perhaps potential illegal aliens should stay in their own country and save their families from the anguish of being deported. Others who are here should leave by simply leaving on their own accord, before the long arm of justice prevails.

  • Avatar
    Cecilia
    October 31, 2007 at 6:13 pm

    Read the report, Horace. People aren’t abandoning their children, they are being detained by immigration authorities who don’t allow them to make so much as a phone call to make arrangements for their children. Our failed immigration policy puts families in this position, but it’s extraordinary that, among our many immigration enforcement choices, we choose to separate parents from their children in this brutal way.

  • Avatar
    Frank
    October 31, 2007 at 7:20 pm

    No, it is the illegal parents that put themselves and their children in those positions. They know they are breaking our immigration laws when they come here. Our immigration policy has only failed because of lack of enforcement.
    Even when the parents were kept with their children in a detainment center to keep the families together the pro-illegals were still crying foul.

  • Avatar
    Horace
    October 31, 2007 at 8:52 pm

    La Raza and unscrupulous advocacy groups lie, cheat and obfuscate every day in order to make the feds look bad. They take lessons from Al Sharpton, who commonly stoops to hystrionics to sensationalize what he perceives as civil right violations. It wouldn’t matter whether the feds put the whole family up in the Ritz Carleton and served them caviar, Hispanic advocacy groups would attempt to villify our law enforcement officials. To them, the end justifies the means. Discount any report by La Raza, as they have no loyalty to this country.

  • Avatar
    George
    October 31, 2007 at 8:57 pm

    “Read the report, Horace. People aren’t abandoning their children, they are being detained by immigration authorities who don’t allow them to make so much as a phone call to make arrangements for their children.”
    Illegal aliens deny our right to keep them out, degrade and defraud the credentials that we use to prove out identity. Their entire life in the U.S. is just a lie. Lying is a way of life for them. Why should we believe them when they complain about abuses by our government officials?

  • Avatar
    yave begnet
    October 31, 2007 at 10:43 pm

    Nice post.
    The lack of compassion–and plain misinformation–on display on this thread is truly astonishing.

  • Avatar
    flower
    November 1, 2007 at 1:14 am

    whats is the latinalista policy?
    Since I star reading your topics I noticed user Frank as a ofensive person, Frank ofense other people just because they do not think like him.
    Yes, we have freedom to make a speech but doesn’t mean you can insult.
    We should make a comment without crossing the line. So, I recall this website to block his IP adress, he become a xenophofic and ofensive person.

  • Avatar
    Marisa Treviño
    November 1, 2007 at 7:34 am

    Flower,
    Yes, the comments of posters like Frank and Horace are offensive and display a real lack of compassion but they are not alone in their “black-white” view of the world.
    I don’t delete their posts because it’s good to know what kind of mindsets exist out there and it’s a way to learn how to combat it.
    It will start on blogs like Latina Lista and will carry over into the streets and at the polls.
    After a while, it is very obvious that the “Frank’s” and “Horace’s” of the world have no desire to see reason, implement compassion or admit that current immigration policy is a bad policy for everyone concerned.
    They, and people like them, will always be contrary to be contrary. It’s much easier to play the Devil’s advocate than to stand up for what is right.
    Marisa

  • Avatar
    EYES OF TEXAS
    November 1, 2007 at 7:58 am

    Flower, I detect the reason you are offended by Franks comments is because they hit too close to home. It is a serious discussion about serious problems with and about illegal immigration. If you are unhappy with comments made by people that counter your comments, then maybe you should find a blog where everyone has the same mind set and agrees with all the posted comments. I suggest the UNAPOLEGETIC MEXICAN blog would be to your liking since that is the one I am block from for making some of the same comments I have made on this blog. Everyone has a right to their own opinions and many will disagree with yours.

  • Avatar
    Frank
    November 1, 2007 at 9:02 am

    flower and Marisa, I have been very civil in here. I haven’t made an offensive remarks. I just stand by the rule of law. Why do you consider that offensive? I have been personally attacked and insulted left and right for my views, even told to “F” off and yet you don’t find that offensive? Why is that? I don’t resort to personal attacks. I am not one who has come in here making racist remarks about Hispanic Americans or even illegal aliens. All I have said is that they have broken our immigration laws and I am of the opinion that we should follow the law which demands deportation. How is that offensive? My opinion is in line with our laws. Why is that offensive? I have to feel compassion as you do or I am being offensive? Please explain where I have been offensive.

  • Avatar
    miguel
    November 1, 2007 at 10:33 am

    frank…. some snippets that show your colors. Are they offensive or not?
    frank wrote:
    I don’t advocate shooting illegal aliens at least not by citizens. If our BP were authorized to do it though that would put an end to illegal immigration real fast.
    frank wrote:
    When law enforcement uses a weapon while enforcing our laws, IT ISN’T MURDER!!
    miguel wrote:
    Frank, by you advocating deadly force when you see a person crossing the border on the same level as a person holding up a 7-11 at gunpoint is where your view of ‘law’ is flawed. If you hold them on equal footing, then conversation with you is useless.
    frank wrote:
    Since we don’t know if someone is crossing our border to look for work or is a terrorist, I would say we need to treat them just as the thief at a 7-11. Of course, they should be WARNED first and it should be made known world wide that this will be our new policy with the BP or put the military on the border.
    It will be the illegals choice then whether he/she wants to take the chance and get shot at.
    Right, I hate the illegal invasion of our country by any illegals. That doesn’t equate to racism its equates to the survivalism of my country.

  • Avatar
    EYES OF TEXAS
    November 1, 2007 at 11:25 am

    Sounds like Mexicos form of immigration control along its southern border which is protected by their army. A lot of countries around the world also control their borders with armed forces and are ordered to shoot anyone sneaking across their border if the invader refuses to stop. I personally do not advocate violence, but in some cases it may be necessary.
    There are BP agents serving time unjustly right now for shooting (not killing) a drug smuggler crossing our border. With prison time hanging over their heads if they shoot someone, our BP agents are nothing more than observers. And if they do catch someone crossing the border, they practice their catch and release policies, which is also wrong.

  • Avatar
    miguel
    November 1, 2007 at 11:56 am

    EYES OF TEXAS wrote:
    Sounds like Mexicos form of immigration control along its southern border which is protected by their army.
    It is true that the policy of Mexico along its border is just as bad if not worse. It has gotten worse as the Mexican government has increased its checkpoints at the insistence of the United States. The army is not as bad as the local police and the criminal element that preys on immigrants. The abuse of the legal method where the legal workers can come in to work on a permit and then they are moved to forced labor camps is as bad as the US except the pay is a lot worse than here.
    With the new state laws going into effect here as in OK, the people will be driven underground since as bad as it gets here, it is still worse across the border. Dodge bullets here or there. Whats the difference?

  • Avatar
    diana joe
    November 1, 2007 at 12:24 pm

    Marisa,
    Tlazocamatlis for opting to leave the likes of Horace, and Frank with the rest of us AMERICANS- they have been intrigingly contributing, and rigidly insightful, and they are in my humble opinion the “balance” from the “WE ARE RIGHT” side ..that we all can surely “tap” into and empower ourselves?!
    – I personally,have been greatly entertained with them, I am actually amazed to be learning from them, over a few weeks period. You see brothers and sisters it is through that which we resist that PERSISTS!
    Horace and Frank are set on their views, their RELIGIOUS IDEALOGIES and there language preferance unless they feel like a MARGARITA.
    A~ho MITAKUYE OYASIN!

  • Avatar
    Frank
    November 1, 2007 at 1:31 pm

    Sorry miguel, but I saw nothing in my remarks you quoted that should be offensive to any American.

  • Avatar
    Frank
    November 1, 2007 at 1:37 pm

    Diana, I have no problem with ethnic food or drink. But that doesn’t mean I would want the whole population of that country to move into my country, particularly in an illegal fashion.

  • Avatar
    miguel
    November 1, 2007 at 1:52 pm

    frank wrote:
    Sorry miguel, but I saw nothing in my remarks you quoted that should be offensive to any American.
    You would have to see us as human for it to mean something to you. Fat chance, huh? Does being American really make a difference to seeing others of your species as equal?

  • Avatar
    EYES OF TEXAS
    November 1, 2007 at 1:58 pm

    The National Council of La Raza releasing a book about illegal alien children or children of illegal aliens is akin to Al Sharpton releasing a book about how black Americans are being suppressed by whitey. People in such situations will continue to shed any of the responsibility for their condition while expecting others to respond with assistance to the condition they themselves created. No child should ever, ever be separated or abandoned by their parents and that includes parents that leave children behind by coming to the U.S. to work.
    The non-partisan Urban Institute is a left leaning organization along the same lines as the ACLU which has created a lot of the problems our nation is suffering today.

  • Avatar
    Horace
    November 1, 2007 at 3:43 pm

    Frank, you don’t seem to get it. I really feel bad for you, as your persistent argument with these people for a return to rational though will tragically come to naught. Any disagreement with the concept of amnesty for illegal aliens is offensive to flower and Marisa. It’s pointless to disguss this subject logically and in consonance with the best interests of the American people, as the hostess of this blog is so biased in her ethocentrist approach to illegal immigration that she won’t listen to her opposition. “Her people” will always come first. This is the new class of citizen, which sees itself as competing with other ethnic groups and races for national resources at the expense of the others.

  • Avatar
    Ice Cream
    November 1, 2007 at 6:12 pm

    So who is your people Horace?

  • Avatar
    Frank
    November 1, 2007 at 8:52 pm

    miguel, even rapists and murderers are “human” but that doesn’t excuse their criminal acts nor should they escape punishment for them.
    Dobbs, oh its the juvenile with the foul mouth again. How’s that boycott of Lou Dobbs coming along, lol.

  • Avatar
    Frank
    November 1, 2007 at 8:58 pm

    Horace, oh I am well aware of that. This is the mindset of the pro-illegal ethnocentrics in this country. If we thought racism of Whites was bad against Blacks 50 years ago, we haven’t seen anthing yet if these ethnocentrics become the majority in this country down the road. “All for the race, nothing for those outside the race”.

  • Avatar
    flower
    November 2, 2007 at 12:42 am

    Marisa,
    La mente de Frank esta enferma y usa palabras despreciantes y insultantes. Parece que desayuna, almuerza y cena sobre el mismo tema, ha cruzado la linea del respeto y mas bien los degrada a los indocumentados. Es bueno escuchar comentarios pro y anti pero sin llegar a niveles bajos.
    Este Web es latino y asi como ellos no permiten que se les insulten en sus webs creo tampoco se deberia permitir aqui.
    gtacias.

  • Avatar
    miguel
    November 2, 2007 at 7:20 am

    frank wrote:
    If we thought racism of Whites was bad against Blacks 50 years ago, we haven’t seen anthing yet if these ethnocentrics become the majority in this country down the road. “All for the race, nothing for those outside the race”.
    A great majority of whites are not proud of how blacks were treated 50 years ago frank. You still seem to be holding on to your past but now have found Mexicans as the new target of your hate. With the effort to cleanse this country of non-whites by persons of your ilk, I can see where are coming from when you proudly say “All for the race, nothing for those outside the race”.
    frank wrote:”we haven’t seen anthing yet….” ?? You planning on going back to lynchings and cross burnings?
    What part of being a racist is lost to you frank? You are in denial when you wish for a lily white world. Those days can only be in your dreams.

  • Avatar
    Frank
    November 2, 2007 at 7:54 am

    miguel, and I am one of those Whites that thought it terrible the way the Blacks were treated. It will always be a shameful mark in our history.
    No, I don’t hate Mexicans that don’t violate our immigration laws. I am opposed to all illegal aliens, however.
    You totally misinterpreted my post. What I was saying is that the ethnocentric illegal alien supporters will be the new racists in this country once they become the majority. That is there motto I quoted, not the White motto.
    I have no desire to lynch anyone or commit genocide against anyone. We have always been a diverse nation with immigrants from all over. I just want our nation to secure its borders and for immigrants to come legally. What is racist about that?

  • Avatar
    miguel
    November 2, 2007 at 8:29 am

    frank wrote:
    You totally misinterpreted my post. What I was saying is that the ethnocentric illegal alien supporters will be the new racists in this country once they become the majority. That is there motto I quoted, not the White motto.
    Sorry about that frank. I have a problem where I take the words posted in their literal meaning. I don’t look for hidden messages.
    I have never heard the motto you quote, so I can not address that. Once we are all here and accepted as citizens you and I will be long dead, so don’t you think that the search now should be to resolve the misdirected laws against immigration and work towards bringing back the meaning of the words posted on the Statue of Liberty?
    Hate does not have to be a two way street but will be as long as we play king of the hill.

  • Avatar
    EYES OF TEXAS
    November 2, 2007 at 8:34 am

    The quote “For the race everything. Outside the race, nothing” is the official motto of MEChA which is an offshoot of the National Council of La Raza. That single motto takes racism to new heights and demonstrates the true intent of organizations like La Raza. Nothing posted on this blog comes anywhere close to the racism of MEChA. Some refer to them as the “Tan Klan”. If you are seeking more examples of racism amoung Latinos, look no further than the Brown Berets which is a militant group preparing for all out combat between all the races.
    So before you start shouting racism to every post you disagree with, look amoungst your own to see what racism really is.

  • Avatar
    miguel
    November 2, 2007 at 9:10 am

    EYES wrote:
    So before you start shouting racism to every post you disagree with, look amoungst your own to see what racism really is.
    EOT, I am reponding because of the position of the post. It might be a response to someone further back but here goes. The groups that you mention do not speak for me. I have no relationship to them or follow their work. They have an agenda to try to deal with negative atmosphere created by real hate groups. I am sure that I would not be allowed to post on the white hate groups as you would not be welcomed in the Hispanic hate forums. This is not one of them, so bury the race card. Every post that is racist is called that. Why take offense? Words have a certain meaning to the person saying them as they might have another to the person hearing them. This is not like standing across the street protesting a march by either side. The sounds and glares are lost here. There is enough of that in the physical world so why try to define it here.
    You post your views and other post theirs. Name calling when your view is called to task does not do anything but burn up the forums bandwidth. Give real life examples on how you have been directly affected instead of the generic ranting to the groups your quoted above. There is plenty of wrong on both sides and they will meet in the street or in the courts. In the interim, do not assume all follow a pied piper that feels comfortable without having to think.
    It is shallow tho think that the world revolves around ‘me’ and my view of life.

  • Avatar
    adriana
    November 2, 2007 at 12:38 pm

    Horace said:
    “La Raza and unscrupulous advocacy groups lie, cheat and obfuscate every day in order to make the feds look bad. They take lessons from Al Sharpton, who commonly stoops to hystrionics to sensationalize what he perceives as civil right violations.”
    This is so far from the truth. The National Council of La Raza does not take lessons from Al Sharpton. Actually both groups tend to look at issues through a narrow lens. I think that the NCLR could learn a thing or two from people like Al Sharpton and those leading the Urban League, NAACP, etc.
    If you really want to learn what NCLR is about, you should read this:
    http://www.nclr.org/content/viewpoints/detail/42500/
    This group isn’t about making the feds look bad. They work within the political system to bring about change.

  • Avatar
    EYES OF TEXAS
    November 2, 2007 at 1:15 pm

    I brought up the agendas of the racial hate groups for just the reason you stated. There are hateful forces on both sides of the illegal immigration issue that are causing people like you and me to be unjustly categorized as being part of, or in support of such organizations. My opinions come from one brain and one heart, and both are mine. I am 100% against illegal immigration and 100% for laws to be enforced. Nothing racial in that statement because I mean all illegal aliens no matter what ethnic group they happen to be.
    Immigration has been an issue for many years, but only recently has it taken on the dynamics it has today. One way or another, immigration laws will be revised and I do not believe either side, pro or con, will be completely satisfied. I am on blogs like this one in order to see the opinions from both sides of the fence, not to degrade or disrespect anyone.

  • Avatar
    adriana
    November 2, 2007 at 1:18 pm

    The NCLR is not a racial hate group. Explain to me how you can see it as one.

  • Avatar
    EYES OF TEXAS
    November 2, 2007 at 2:03 pm

    Reading a website produced by the NCLR would be the same as one produced by the NAACP, propaganda in its smoothest form. These racially specific organizations never let the general public know their real agendas or end goals. Both are government supported hate groups exhibiting racism just by their existance alone. Could you imagine a NAAWP, or a National Council of the White Race. So, please explain the difference between these type of organizations and the actual ones that exist today. They are all based around a particular race of people, but ones based around whites would be considered racist. Why?

  • Avatar
    miguel
    November 2, 2007 at 2:05 pm

    EYES… The statement that MEChA is an offshoot of the National Council of La Raza is very strongly denied by NCLR. From their website at http://www.nclr.org/content/viewpoints/detail/42500/#mecha
    quote: Another misconception about NCLR is that we support a “Reconquista,” or the right of Mexico to reclaim land in the southwestern United States. NCLR has not made and does not make any such claim; indeed, such a claim is so far outside of the mainstream of the Latino community that we find it incredible that our critics raise it as an issue. NCLR has never supported and does not endorse the notion of a “Reconquista” or “Aztlán.” Similarly, NCLR’s critics falsely claim that the statement “Por La Raza todo, Fuera de La Raza nada,” [“For the community everything, outside the community nothing”] is NCLR’s motto. NCLR unequivocally rejects this statement, which is not and has never been the motto of any Latino organization.
    There are elements that will take a small hill of a statement and make it into a mountain. It still falls back to us individually to choose who to believe and the underlying motives of all sides that promote to divide.

  • Avatar
    EYES OF TEXAS
    November 2, 2007 at 2:21 pm

    Adriana, have you ever heard of a group called MEChA which is an offspring and part of the NCLR? Look no further than their motto “For the race everything. Outside the race, nothing.” That statement can not be more racist or imply the true goals of that organization. It is a direct threat against all other races than of the one it applys to. Also, please do a little research on the Brown Berets (Tan Klan) for a militant group of racists. These types of organizations unfortunately exist in all ethnic groups making it difficult for rational people to resolve their differences.

  • Avatar
    EYES OF TEXAS
    November 2, 2007 at 2:27 pm

    I got a counter before I had time to post. So, believe what you must, trust who you want and find your own answers to satisfy your need.

  • Avatar
    adriana
    November 2, 2007 at 2:27 pm

    The NCLR and NAACP do not exclude people from other races from joining. It isn’t some old boy’s club like many of the Masons, Country Clubs, fraternities, and lodges ,etc.
    Eyes of Texas said: “Reading a website produced by the NCLR would be the same as one produced by the NAACP, propaganda in its smoothest form.”
    There you go again, lumping all people of color in the same group again. While these groups have some shared goals, their approaches are different, and even their “propaganda” is different. You shouldn’t act like the authority on something you don’t seem to know very much about.

  • Avatar
    adriana
    November 2, 2007 at 2:36 pm

    Eyes of Texas, yes, I have heard of MEChA. And from what I remember in college, it was a group that like to party more than anything. They weren’t exclusive. I know that there were Filipino students and even white students at many of their events.
    And their slogan was:
    “La union hace la fuerza.”
    I’m sure that someone here will translate that it doesn’t mean what you are insisting it does.
    Where do you get these ideas about MEChA? Have you been on a college campus lately? Most kids are too busy taking classes and working to be militant. And most MEChA students who make it out of college go to work just like regular Americans. Much ado about nothing was made about LA Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa’s activities in college with this group, and nothing came out of it.

  • Avatar
    EYES OF TEXAS
    November 2, 2007 at 4:14 pm

    I only know what I read or what I am told about such groups. I also do web searches and find both pro and con websites and try to form my own opinion as to who is pumping out propaganda and who is telling it straight. Isn’t that all any of us can do? It is the same as the things you may read about the Minuteman Project or other groups protesting illegal immigration. You research, form an opinion, which may be 180 degrees from reality, and that becomes your belief. That is one reason I appreciate blogging with you folks in a civilized manner. It is enlightening and interesting to see your point of view, wheather I agree with them or not.

  • Avatar
    Horace
    November 2, 2007 at 6:05 pm

    La union hace la fuerza translates to The union has strength.

  • Avatar
    Horace
    November 2, 2007 at 6:16 pm

    I visited a federal prison recently and observed the inmates at work and wondered how much their families suffered from their incarceration. It may come as a surprise to some of you, but there was nary a inmate’s relative marching out front complaining of how it was unfair to the children that their parents were separated from them. Shocking, shocking, that there are such laws at all! Oh the injustice!

  • Avatar
    Frank
    November 2, 2007 at 7:01 pm

    miguel, I disagree that we should make illegal aliens citizens, our laws say deport them. I may be long dead when our population reaches 300 million that way but what I am concerned about are my grandchildren and how this population growth wlll affect our natural resources, etc. on down the line in this country. We should not award people who have broken our laws. That sets a bad presedence in this country. That is not what we are about.
    Any reasonable person wouldn’t take the words on the Statue of Liberty so literally that we should commit national suicide this way. When that statue was erected we still had plenty of open land and resources to handle more people. Not so today.

  • Avatar
    miguel
    November 3, 2007 at 5:36 am

    frank wrote:
    miguel, I disagree that we should make illegal aliens citizens, our laws say deport them. I may be long dead when our population reaches 300 million that way but what I am concerned about are my grandchildren and how this population growth wlll affect our natural resources, etc. on down the line in this country. We should not award people who have broken our laws. That sets a bad presedence in this country. That is not what we are about.
    Any reasonable person wouldn’t take the words on the Statue of Liberty so literally that we should commit national suicide this way. When that statue was erected we still had plenty of open land and resources to handle more people. Not so today.
    frank, I highlighted my concern that is the same as yours. I do not like getting into this pissing contest about what is wrong today for myself. I have been through enough in my life that my opinions and hates have basis as I am sure yours have been forged by whatever neglect you suffered growing up. We are a product of our environment. Having been on the receiving end of the hate we talk about here, I have to admit it was luck that got me a career with an international company that for the most part was color blind and all were allowed to work without pre-conceived notions of our ability to be a part of the team.
    Whether you admit it or not, it is not about the resources as you state. It is about fear that your ancestors blood as well as yours will down the line be mixed with ours. Until that time comes to pass, the fear of staying ‘white’ drives the mad policies that people are lining up behind today.
    I agree that there is a criminal element that people worry about, but that is the same on all sides. The chants of rape and murder directed at immigrants applies to the homegrown criminal element as well.
    The words at Lady Liberty are still valid but working together for the betterment of this country would have to take a front seat to the panic people are in now. Yelling ‘flood of illegals’ is akin to yelling ‘fire’ in a movie theater.

  • Avatar
    Frank
    November 3, 2007 at 7:50 am

    miguel, I didn’t have a bad childhood or was neglected. Don’t project things on people you don’t even know. My parents taught me to love America and fight for her. They taught me to respect the laws of this country. Did yours?
    My objection to illegal immigration has many reasons. The rule of law and population growth (which does affect our natural resources, ariable land space and social infrastures to support it) are just two of them. I don’t mind immigrants coming here in controlled numbers and assimilating to our culture, language and society. Does France want to become Italy culturally, does Mexico want to become Russia culturally? You know what I mean. There is nothing racist about a country wanting to retain it’s natural identity. No country would be able to do that with uncontrolled illegal immigration.
    Lady Liberty wouldn’t want us to commit national suicide in order to take in more of the world’s poor than we can handle. You are not being reasonable nor realistic here. There are limits to everything!

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    miguel
    November 3, 2007 at 9:47 am

    frank wrote:
    miguel, I didn’t have a bad childhood or was neglected. Don’t project things on people you don’t even know. My parents taught me to love America and fight for her. They taught me to respect the laws of this country. Did yours?
    Frank, my ancestors were here before Texas was a state. They were the immigrants here when they escaped the oppression of the Mexican government of the early 1800’s. That is on my dads side. On my mothers side her family was in New Mexico further back that I can trace. On my dads paternal side they came here with the mining operation out of Mexico in the 1890’s. They struggled to survive and believe me, my love of this country did not have to ‘taught’ to us. I grew up fighting to NOT let my life become what it was before my family got here.
    Going off to war for this country does not count? Crying as you see your family members come back in body bags does not count? Standing and putting your hand over your heart when you hear the National Anthem does not count? I am not here to take anything you have earned away from you Frank. Attitudes like yours did not make our country what it is today and they do not serve to continue making it a better country in the future.
    If your views had been around 200 years ago when my family was here fighting for their right to exist, they would have had to watch their backs from those fighting besides them for ‘their’ freedom.
    Projecting things on people you don’t know is a two way street Frank.

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    flower
    November 3, 2007 at 9:21 pm

    Hey Miguel thank you for serving our country.
    Romans had a law that any woman who get married must spend the first night with a goverment official. This was a law and everybody have to obey the law.
    Also, when Jesus born there were a law that any baby born had to be killed. So, Virgin Mary, her husband and Jesus flew to another country as illegals, are they criminals because the broke the law?.
    We need use our common sence and look for a solution rather that punish people who are already living here and paying taxes.

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    miguel
    November 3, 2007 at 10:08 pm

    flower, the people that complain have nothing vested in this country, They just want to stir the pot of discontent. If they truly valued what this country stood for, it would not revolve around the almighty dollar.
    The rights and dignity of fellow human beings would be above all the hate calls. Respect would have its true meaning.

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    Horace
    November 4, 2007 at 8:28 am

    “We need use our common sence and look for a solution rather that punish people who are already living here and paying taxes.”
    No one should be able to buy their way into this country, and “already living here” is why we are having them deported. This is amnesty and amnesty begets more illegal immigration, as was shown after the 1986 amnesty.
    The work in this country is for citizens and those who we choose to given visas to. I’m sorry that if your friends and extended family do not qualify, but we have established rules for entering this country, and we shall not let foreigners or self-serving ethnocentrists decide what needs to be changed, if any change is required. This is still a democracy, and Americans will not cave to intimidation by a minority group, in spite of it being acknowledged to be fast growing. Using the basis of future political domination, what’s next for Hispanics, demands for a completely open southern border, or other special treatment for Hispanics? There are other nations on this planet whose inhabitants actually have a lower standard of living that should also be given an opportunity. What about them?
    Hispanics already get special treatment. Citizens of Hispanic dominated countries are issued more visas than any other. No demands have been made to change this. This is proof that our country’s policies on immigration are based on economics, not race.
    People like Miguel and Moldynado may complain about past injustices towards the original Mexican-Americans, which I agree are unfortunate and shouldn’t have happened, but their sad stories will not be used as the basis for changing our current laws.

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    Jack oin Jacksonville
    November 5, 2007 at 12:54 pm

    This is all very silly. The meaning of the word “illegal” is quite clear. Those who are here illegally should be sent back to their country of origin. They are lawbreakers and we have no use for them. My grandparents came here legally—I expect all others to enter in that same fashion. We really should change the law that allows children off illegals born stateside to become citizens at birth. Illegals should return home and, of course, take their children with them. Too many are using their children as an excuse to stay.

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    Frank
    November 6, 2007 at 8:15 pm

    miguel, I didn’t project anything on you. You did it to me first. I only asked you what your parents taught you. I didn’t say anything else.
    Nice family history there but what has that to do with our country having immigration laws today? What is wrong with my views or attitude? I merely want our immigration laws respected. Isn’t that what all law abiding Americans are sworn to do? To uphold and respect our laws? There is no hate and racism in that.
    It matter not that illegal aliens may be paying taxes. They have no right to be here. What part of that don’t you and yours get? We have a legal way to migrate here.

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    miguel
    November 7, 2007 at 6:40 am

    frank, Why don’t you start your own blog? You seem to have plenty of time and you can then spin your senseless dribble on it 24/7 if you like. You and your views are becoming a laughing stock here and it appears by your remarks your feelings are getting hurt or you are becoming one wtih what you spew.

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    Frank
    November 7, 2007 at 8:06 am

    I don’t need or want to start my own blog. There are plenty out their already on both sides of the issue. What senseless dribble? Respecting our laws is senseless dribble? Please explain if you can.
    You sure like to read a lot of things into my posts that aren’t there, don’t you? You are projecting all kinds of negative personal things about me without even knowing me. I know your tactics, miguel. It is the typical tactics of the pro-illegls because they have no viable arguments against the rule of law and for the illegal invasion of our country. So they attack us personally.

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    miguel
    November 7, 2007 at 11:59 am

    Frank, I can see by your approach to dealing with your fellow human beings that you are truly a man of compassion and believing in the words of Jesus Christ. If you had been around 2000 years ago maybe Jesus could have taken you on as #13. My comments were tainted by by shallow understanding of right and wrong and I am sure you will continue to enlighten those amongst us that are confused in these two areas of dealing with life.
    How could the world have made it this far without the true words of Jesus, “The law is the law and Frank will explain it to you”.
    Thanks Frank. I will now go and whip myself for my misplaced view of right and wrong.

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    Frank
    November 7, 2007 at 3:31 pm

    No, it was Jesus who said respect the laws of the land initially, not Frank. I merely respect them but obviously you don’t. You aren’t sinning against Frank you are sinning against Jesus himself.
    Jesus also said not to steal, lie and cheat. What do you think the illegals are doing? Sorry its not Frank’s ten commandments they are violating, but God’s.

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    miguel
    November 7, 2007 at 3:57 pm

    Frank, So it is a holy war for you. Go get them tiger.

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    Frank
    November 8, 2007 at 8:00 am

    Better a holy war than a reconquista war.

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    miguel
    November 8, 2007 at 11:34 am

    war is war, nothing good comes from it. blessings to you Frank. Keep the faith.

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    Frank
    November 8, 2007 at 3:41 pm

    It is always good to fight a rightous war. That is how one brings about positive changes.

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    Nina
    November 10, 2007 at 10:18 pm

    It’s an unbelievably racist act to demand special treatment for Mexican children whose parents are arrested for breaking the law; every day all over this country American children have their parents arrested for breaking the law and they are not coddled as suggested, nor does the writer suggest equal coddling for children of all races. All of these children are learning that actions have consequences, and those consequences are often painful.

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