LatinaLista — You don’t have to know Spanish to understand the headlines appearing in Chilean and Spanish-language newspapers regarding the senseless murders in Florida of two young Chilean students and the wounding of three others.
“Gringo loco” is how the Spanish press describes the killer Dannie Roy Baker. His picture fits the caption.
Murdered Chilean student Racine Balbontin-Aragondona with her boyfriend Fransisco Javier Cofre-Fernande who is in critical condition.
(Source: Terra – Facebook)
By all accounts, the 14 students who were in Unit 12 at the time Baker began shooting through a window of the apartment were just 14 friends, far from home, gathered together at a friend’s place to enjoy each other’s company like college students the world over do.
According to law enforcement, the group was not loud nor were there any complaints filed by neighbors of excessive or disruptive partying. So, it was something else that made Baker snap and carry his rifle across the apartment complex to target this group of young people, killing two â€” Nicolas Pablo Corp-Torres age 23 and Racine Balbontin-Aragondona, age 22 and wounding three â€” Fransisco Javier Cofre-Fernande, age 25, in critical condition; Sebastian Mauricio Arizaga-Suarez, age 27 and David Alonzo Bilbao-Meza, age 21.
Law enforcement officials who came upon the scene were struck by the brutality of the senseless murders:
“It’s a tragedy of truly severe, severe proportions,” said Walton County Sheriff Mike Adkinson, who added that the residents of Unit 12 had never been in trouble with the Sheriff’s Office. “They were totally harmless and victims in the true sense of the word.”
Those that knew Baker said that while he never illustrated a violent side, he used to run a music ministry, he was known to be eccentric. What really seemed to get under his skin were national political issues.
In fact, employees at the Walton County Republican Headquarters where Baker had volunteered during the 2004 presidential election, recently had to tell him to stop emailing “radical” and “inappropriate” emails and to stay away from them.
Baker complied but he obviously took to heart the extreme conservative rhetoric that labels all immigrants as undocumented and a threat to U.S. society.
There is no doubt that Dannie Roy Baker is a disturbed individual but disturbed individuals who act out in such an extreme way do so as a reaction to what they perceive to be a “call to action.”
Murdered Chilean student Nicolas Pablo Corp-Torres
(Source: Terra – Facebook)
Baker’s ties to the Republican Party means he was absorbing the harsh campaign rhetoric targeting illegal immigration. That much is obvious when members of the local Republican Executive Committee who knew him said that his erratic emails had to do with “national political issues.”
Yet, while his actions would seem to indicate he was delusional, his behavior seems to indicate he knew what he was doing â€” he returned to his apartment and waited for police to arrive and he surrendered without putting up a fight.
So, was it just a coincidence that he targeted an apartment full of Latinos who were most probably speaking Spanish?
I don’t think so.
Neighbor Crystal Lynn says “he did come up to me one time and asked me if I was ready for the revolution to begin and if I had any immigrant in my house to get them out.”
Those in the Republican Party and extreme right who have not tempered their rhetoric against illegal immigration have created an environment in this country where impressionable young boys and eccentric old men think it’s OK to “hunt” Latino immigrants.
The trouble is that just from someone speaking Spanish or having a particular look are not indicators of someone’s citizenship status or legality of their presence in the country.
People like Lou Dobbs or Rush Limbaugh and those organizations against undocumented immigration who are afforded the privilege of having their own platforms on TV , radio or as newspaper sources have not exercised the kind of self-censorship necessary to prevent inciting people to commit violence against Latinos.
Nor have they truthfully and fully educated their viewers, readers and listeners on the issue of illegal immigration.
It’s no wonder that the Dannie Roy Bakers of this country will feel empowered and justified to carry out these kinds of assaults.
It’s not only time to reign in the rhetoric but also for the FCC to start monitoring what is released on the public airwaves and penalize those programs that would incite violence against undocumented immigrants.
For too long, this kind of hate talk has smugly hidden under the guise of free speech. In other countries, we would call it propaganda.
Hatred speech and racist propaganda is against the law in Germany and most of Western Europe – they learned their lesson well. Many of these racists have brought their venom to the U.S. and operate under the protection of free speech. These so called “conservative” radio and TV hosts like Lou, Rush, and others encourage this type of violent behavior. Their reward is in hell.
What a spinner! Now we’re to believe that the miscreant’s party affiliation was relevant to the crime. Gee, I wonder how many murderers who are Hispanic are Democrats. While we’re at it, we can smear all illegal aliens as criminals because some illegal aliens are criminals. Your attempt to smear an entire political party is pathetic and just plain shameful. It’s also shameful that you smear everyone in opposition to illegal immigration that just demand that our laws be enforced, i.e. Limbaugh and Dobbs as inciting to commit homicide. Can’t you just accept that people naturally resent foreigners entering their country, demanding rights their manifestly not entitled to? Contrary to the advocates point of view, most people don’t see illegal alien Mexicans as part of their community.
Again it just shows that if advocates can’t win on the merits of an argument, just make ad hominem attacks on the critics. Advocates cannot tolerate the fact that not everyone has a favorable view of illegal immigrants. I’d say that you’ve stooped to a new low, Maris, but then you’ve been there before.
Pathetic attempt to falsely tie a particular political party to this crime and another disgraceful, unfounded effort to portray all white on Hispanic crime as racist. You deceitfully characterize what you consider extreme right figures as “hate” however “hate” radio isn’t exclusive to right wingers as I’ve heard plenty of racist, hate filled propaganda/rhetoric coming from various Spanish language mediums. Your agenda is obvious and your conclusions irresponsible, false and duplicitous.
Unbiased Story Here Florida man rants about immigrants then kills his Chilean neighbors
“These so called “conservative” radio and TV hosts like Lou, Rush, and others encourage this type of violent behavior.”
No. That is not true.
“Hatred speech and racist propaganda is against the law in Germany and most of Western Europe – they learned their lesson well. Many of these racists have brought their venom to the U.S. and operate under the protection of free speech. These so called “conservative” radio and TV hosts like Lou, Rush, and others encourage this type of violent behavior. Their reward is in hell.”
Just what I want, the federal government making judgments on what people permitted to say. If you like the European’s form of government, I suggest that you move there. Frankly, I believe in the 1st Amendment, while Panchito and advocates do not. You expose yourself for the petty tyrant that you are, Panchito.
Do you really think that Americans are not proprietary about their sovereignty? I’d question their patriotism if they wouldn’t defend themselves against an invasion by foreign nationals. Racist ethnocentrists who see everything in terms of “my people” seem to be the only group that would abandon the idea that this is the United States of America, with a separate identity from Mexico. I challenge every reader in this blog to have the audacity to give an example of one country in South or Central America that would accept such contempt for their territorial rights with equanimity. In fact there’s no country in the world that would accept that illegal immigrants should be granted the right to stay without going through an established immigration process. Most countries citizens, including those of Mexico would riot in the streets against Americans flooding across there borders, yet Hispanic advocates deny their own countrymen the right to control their borders. Anyone who would deign object is condemned as a racist and their objections declared hate speech. The true evil people are those who would suppress debate in the name of hate speech. These are the true enemies of our freedoms.
Even without Lou Dobbs and Limbaugh, there would be millions of Americans who would speak out against the invasion of their country by foreign nationals and the unfair special treatment proposed for the illegal alien family members of Hispanics. I find the idea of such special treatment for these people appalling, especially since there are millions of other foreign nationals awaiting legal residency. It speaks volumes for the lack of Latino integrity when they single themselves out as special class separate from all others. Is it no wonder that resentment is brewing within the ranks of other ethnic groups?
Rush and Lou refuse to roll over for ethnocentrist groups and do say negative things; true facts about illegal immigration, while the main stream media panders to advocates, afraid to say anything negative for fear of being castigated for doing so. Advocates have the strategy of pulling the race card at every debate. There is no sane debate about illegal immigration because Latinos would never accept that their argument could be wrong. Debate is only true debate if both parties to it would concede to an arbitrator’s decision. Advocates, full of hate and blinders to the possibility that they could be wrong would never accede to accepting any decision that could go against them.
Good God, Marisa, what a hate filled post you wrote! The fact that this single nutcase volunteered at a Republican campaign office 5 years ago and was told to get lost by those same Republicans makes him a â€œradical Republican?â€
Does it escape you that it is conservatives who advocate the death penalty for such murderers of innocent people and liberal Democrats who largely oppose the death penalty for these crimes, instead seeking to â€œshow compassion?â€
You brand all Republicans now as murderers because someone who once volunteered turns out to be such a malicious and callous murderer?
What do you label the plethora of illegal immigrants who have murdered Americans and fled back across the border and who the Mexican government refuses to extradite because they might face such a penalty if found guilty in America? Are those illegals also â€œXenophobesâ€ in your hate filled mind for murdering Americans?
Are they â€œradical Democrat Illegal Immigrants?â€
I also find it very telling that pro illegal immigration sites have announced a motive for this brutal murder when the authorities in Florida, my home state incidentally, have not and who say Baker is not talking.
You pride yourself as being a â€œSyndicated journalistâ€ but you are anything but. A Journalist supposedly isnâ€™t as far left biased and hate filled as you are.
No one condones murdering illegals over following our laws. We only wish our laws to be followed and rest assured, it will be conservatives willing to issue this murderer the death penalty for his crimes and not liberals who will instead try to seek leniency for criminals of this caliber.
May I suggest you take some time off to reflect on just what journalism actually is supposed to be? Objective surely isnâ€™t apparent in this post.
1996 Rudy Giuliani: â€œI believe the anti-immigrant movement in America is one of our most serious public problems.â€
2006 Nashville Sheriff Daron Hall: “There is an element of people out there that scares me to death.”
2007 Marisa Trevino: “Unfounded stories making their way across the media illustrate how the argument has shifted from undocumented Latino immigrants to the general population of Latinos.”
2007 Tennessee Governor Phil Bredesen: “Illegal immigration is bad… [b]ut when that starts slopping over into â€˜Weâ€™re opposed to anybody who speaks Spanish or weâ€™re opposed to anybody whoâ€™s not American-born,â€™ I think you get into very, very bad territory.”
HispanicNashville.com has more stories about negativity directed at Hispanics and/or immigrants.
They were NOT immigrants, you idiot! They were students! They wanted to go back to Chile after studying in the US!
The way I see this is that the guy that did this is a nut job who happened to be a Republican. Most citizens will see it that way also, despite your attempt to make a connection intended to libel all Republicans. We see a lot of illegal aliens committing murder and involved in DWIs. Would you have us believe that all Latino illegal aliens are of such character? I think not.
As to your characterization of Limbaugh and Dobbs, neither is on a crusade against legal immigration, so I hardly see how this so-called “hate crime” is their responsibility. I suggest that you’ve never actually watched Dobbs or Limbaugh. Try actually watching Dobbs, instead of just parroting the most radical assertions from the illegal alien advocates, who read racism in every argument in opposition to illegal immigration.
Such commentaries just show how you advocates will use any “ploy” (as Laura puts it) to rope in every anti-illegal alien protester as a criminal, racist or potential murderer. If you try to get beyond your personal hate bias for your opposition, and your preconceived notions on the motives of those who might not agree with you, maybe you’ll start commenting using facts not irrational and emotional diatribes.
“Again it just shows that if advocates can’t win on the merits of an argument, just make ad hominem attacks on the critics.”
Kind of what you just did to the author?
I wasn’t “hating” on the Republicans but merely pointing out the solid connection that this guy exhibited to the party, especially in the last few months. His emails and his comment to his neighbor illustrated how he was affected by the rhetoric he was hearing from his own party or like-minded individuals who advocate their own “hate-filled” reactions to illegal immigration. I didn’t brand all Republicans as murderers. In turn, by choosing to interpret the post as such, I find that it is an argument you wish to be true.
Fortunately, those who aren’t trying to defend a way of thinking but can read the post for the facts that are included and how I deduced my findings, and as always, they are my deductions from my perspective, will walk away seeing that the argument I am making has nothing to do with “all Republicans being murderers” but whether or not the irresponsible rhetoric supported by the Republican Party by some of its members is enough to make a mentally sick individual feel that he is carrying out a mission spurred by the negative and hateful talk that he hears about a particular people.
“and as always, they are my deductions from my perspective,”
Does it somehow escape you that “your perspective” just might be more bigoted than those you seek to trash?
Defend it however you wish, your intent was very clear.
What good is writing if your readers continually come away with the opposite view you claim you desire to express?
You are right, Marisa. We are seeing incitement to racist murder all around, particularly among the dredges of the Republican party. At Sarah Palin rallies, shouts of “kill him” – referring to then-Senator Obama – were met with smiles by Ms. Palin. The recent cartoon in the Rupert-Murdoch-owned New York Post was also an incitement to assassinate the President.
I also agree with Panchito that the people who incite murder are just as guilty as the people who execute it. This is what German laws mean: that Nazi propaganda led to unspeakabale crimes, and therefore is intolerable by a free society. The violent German Neonazis are opposed not just by laws, but by German civil society. The Neonazis are met by counterdemonstrations wherever they try to congregate – an appropriate response by today’s German people who are concerned for their communities.
Another phenomenon is clear here: racism is only marginally related to physical characteristics. Italians and Irish were “black” in early 20th century America, and businesses seeking workers had signs “Irish need not apply.” In Lou Dobbs’ and Rush Limbaugh’s America, blond and blue-eyed Spanish-speaking people – like the Chilean victims of this murderer in Florida – are “illegals” who are appropriate targets of violence.
Whether racist incitement to violence is forbidden by law, as it is in Germany, or whether it is sanctioned by civil society in the form of boycotts, as the NAACP, Spike Lee, and many other people are calling for in the case of the New York Post – it cannot be tolerated in a civilized society.
Marisa, you may be right in your assertion that they are not immigrants, but neither are illegal aliens who enter this country considered immigrants under our Code of Federal Regulations. Does it make you an idiot when you use the term immigrant or undocumented immigrant when referring to border jumpers? Believe me when I say that Chile wouldn’t consider our illegal aliens immigrants under their laws.
This is silly. The Republican Party told this nutcase to get lost.
Obviously there is a stark line between the Republican Party’s views about the evils of illegal immigration the position of this raving lunatic who killed these students who were neither illegal nor immigrants.
The fact that you want to tar the GOP even when they unequivocally rejected this guy â€” a pretty notable thing for a political party to do â€” only shows you’re exercising your bigotry and your own neurotic misunderstanding of the Republican position on this issue.
You might as well say the Beatles’ worldview was behind the murder of Sharon Tate.
Did I miss something? Where does it say that Lou Dobbs is the enemy? Isn’t he married to a Latino?
Well, I am glad you cleared that up. I don’t know who this person is, but, you have more information about him than the media does.
Living in Amercia is about so much more than being Hispanic. It is about all Americans living together under freedom. That includes nationality, religous affiliations, and political parties.
To single one group out for hate is not condoned by the Republican Party.
What utter BS, Marisa. There is no hate filled, irresponsible rhetoric aimed at Latinos, legal or otherwise by most Republicans or anyone else who is opposed to illegal immigation. Are facts hate-filled? Well too damned bad. Are we supposed to be denied freedom of speech and truth because of a few nutcases?
“…but whether or not the irresponsible rhetoric supported by the Republican Party by some of its members is enough to make a mentally sick individual feel that he is carrying out a mission spurred by the negative and hateful talk that he hears about a particular people.”
Your definition of irresponsible rhetoric is the act of merely objecting to illegal immigration and demanding that our officials do their duty under the Constitution by enforcing the laws. I’m sorry, but I’d rather risk disturbing a few unstable people than shut and let my country be run by the special interest ethnocentrics. The price of free expression is the risk upsetting those who do not agree with you or provoking some to do extreme acts.
Get real if you’re advocating that the solution is for everyone who objects vigorously to the presence of illegal aliens is to just shut up and let you apologists for illegal aliens have your way in Congress. I don’t think so. That is a clever ploy (using Horace’s definition); keep silent and surrender to the opposition and offend no one. That won’t work. We opponents aren’t as stupid as you believe us to be, and we do believe in our 1st Amendment rights.
Well Lew, thank goodness for your impartiality and objectivity to point the error of my words.
Well Lew, thank goodness for your impartiality and objectivity to point the error of my words.
Glad to be of service. Hopefully, you can improve after seeing your errors.
After all, Latinos I know and associate with and even served in Viet Nam with felt they were Americans first.
Again, check out the Republican National Hispanic Assembly. Perhaps you will broaden your outlook on Hispanics and their values.
I was told to check out this site for updates on the “amnesty” that is supposed to come from Obama. I spent a lot of time reading the old posts and I must say that I have found that racism is alive here. Why does everything have to do with being unfairly treated because of being a Latino? The one on Phelps took the cake…now come on! How in the world can you turn that story into a race bait story?
Get real if you’re advocating that the solution is for everyone who objects vigorously to the presence of illegal aliens is to just shut up and let you apologists for illegal aliens have your way in Congress.
Actually, Marisa has advocated that the government shut those people up:
It’s not only time to reign in the rhetoric but also for the FCC to start monitoring what is released on the public airwaves and penalize those programs that would incite violence against undocumented immigrants.
Interestingly, the only problem I have with this passage is the weasel word “would.” If programs were actually inciting violence (or sedition), the FCC should intervene. The problem is that Marisa interprets any unfavorable commentary as incitement. Anybody complaining about the downside of illegal immigration “would” incite violence.
Again, if Marisa were in charge, the Beatles could have been arrested for the Manson Family murders.
That’s true Hissy. I hear that she needs a body guard because she’s afraid of being harmed by radical illegal alien advocates. She doesn’t want to be a victim of a hate crime.
Great Job Marisa on reporting such a horrific crime to have 2 young innocents murdered.
I find it so interesting that the Republican and ANTI Immigration Reform faction becomes so sensitive, even when you are merely reporting the facts.
I did not see 1 of them voice any concern or sadness for those murdered. All they can do is rant and rave about being offended because you reported, as was reported in the local news articles, that the perpetrator was a Republican activist and his neighbors were QUOTED as repeating much of the rhetoric spewed by the likes of Dobbs, Hannity and Limbaugh and ANTI websites, including “”he did come up to me one time and asked me if I was ready for the REVOLUTION to begin and if I had any IMMIGRANT in my house to GET THEM OUT (giving her an advanced alert of his intent to Murder).” This crazed gunman didn’t make this stuff up. He heard it from the Hate Mongers who preach this hate on a daily basis. We ALL should be advocating for them to STOP THE HATE Talk! And protect ALL of our children.
Dobbs, Hannity, Limbaugh and the ANTI Immigration Reform Hate Sites enrage their followers to a frothing frenzy to HATE “illeeegal aliens.” The bottom line is, no one knows what an “illeegal” looks like. Many, particularly the radical, think they can spot one at any time. They think they all are brown-skinned and speak Spanish. Obviously these Chilean students were brown skinned and Spanish speaking. So were Marcelo Lucero, Luis Ramirez and Jose Sucuzhanay. They were all MURDERED by those listening and believing the ANTI rhetoric.
There are two things we can learn from this:
1. CHARGE/PROSECUTE/Find Guilty THESE CRIMINALS for the HATE CRIMES they committed.
2. STOP the HATE TALK that Incites their audiences to ACT OUT these Crimes.
Another great article, Marisa! Thanks for your continued courage to confront the obvious and lay it out in such another excellent column.
With your permission, however, I would suggest one minor modification to the penultimate paragraph. In it you state “It’s not only time to reign in the rhetoric but also for the FCC to start monitoring … penalize those programs that would incite violence against undocumented immigrants.”
I would just suggest that they do as you suggest, but not limiting it to inciting violence against only the undocumented. Free speech in the market place of ideas is one thing, but inciting violence against ANY group or individual, particularly for no other reason than being part of a group one dislikes should be illegal and monitored! OMG… people who do so would be “illegals”!!
Lee said; “I would just suggest that they do as you suggest, but not limiting it to inciting violence against only the undocumented. Free speech in the market place of ideas is one thing, but inciting violence against ANY group or individual, particularly for no other reason than being part of a group one dislikes should be illegal and monitored! OMG… people who do so would be “illegals”!!”
First of all, there has been little “hate speech” in the media. Second of all, unless we all want the government to become sensors, I’d hate to see the FCC become the arbiter of speech. I hear a lot of people suggesting that all the illegal aliens go back to their homelands. The people in question hold allegiance to a foreign power and have not been granted the right to stay, so that’s not hate speech. I hear a lot of people say that we should enforce our immigration laws. That’s not hate speech. I hear a lot of people say that illegal aliens commit crimes in this country. Judging by the fact that illegal alien workers misrepresent themselves as legal residents, to the point of becoming complicit in the use of forged documents, which is a crime according to our Code of Federal Regulations, millions of illegal aliens have committed at least one crime in this country. The people of this country have the right to demand that their laws be enforced without being called racists and haters. Calling illegal aliens criminals, regardless of their motive, whether come here for their own desperate purposes, is not hate speech. It would seem to me that people like Lee are some of the greatest threats to our way of life, because they would criminalize free speech and debate. Such people are the new fascists. Disagree with them and their first instinct is to make laws compelling their opposition to be silent.
No one, and no ethnic group has the right to incite against the enforcement of our laws or obstruct justice. Advocates are the worst kind of Americans when they cannot abide by the law of the land.
This kind of fanatism does not surprise me.What is scary though, is to see how much coverage the media gives to these insane people.
Just watch Limbaugh. He is everywhere with his poisoning political,inspirational words.
Shame on those who benefit from these inhuman creatures.
You are also responsible.
By what I keep reading, the definition now of “hate speech” is anyone advocating enforcement of existing laws.
Does it escape you that would relegate your article as “hate speech” for advocating enforcing the law against this idiot for murdering those two innocent people?
After all, if it is hate speech to speak in favor of enforcing immigration laws, it must also be hate speech to advocate enforcement of other laws.
Now, if you advocated changing immigration laws, it would be different. But your position is continually to just ignore those laws.
Instead of spreading hatred of Republicans, Marisa, why don’t you circulate a petition to place an initiative on the ballot to modify existing law, LEGALLY?
But in the meantime, existing law must be followed unless we depreciate our society into anarchy.
Of course, we could always adopt Mexico’s Immigration laws. Care to post those for all to see, Marisa?
Just for clarification for some, Republicans are NOT anti-immigration. We are Anti-ILLEGAL immigration, regardless of country of origin.
Dee, I’m curious. Just what evidence do you have that shows this callous murderer listened to talk radio?
Or, is it just your assumption that since he murdered two Hispanics, he had to have listened?
Would that mean that all those Illegal Immigrants who murdered or otherwise killed Americans listened to Air America? Or, regulary read Latina Lista?
I totally agree Horace.
American citizens who feel that immigration laws need to be changed have the right to work towards those ends. But those who feel that the laws do not need to be changed also have the right to exercise their Constitutional rights to oppose them and to free political speech. Political speech is specifically protected under our Constitution.
Socialists have totalitarian tendencies just as fascists on the right do. That’s generally the difference between true liberals and the hard left. The former is open to debate and different points of view; whereas, the latter generally seeks to shut down their opposition.
Both liberals and conservatives make valid points at times on various issues. For our country to continue to be successful, it is imperative that we allow the free exchange of ideas even if we are personally opposed to some of those ideas.
“Hate speech” laws in Europe have been used to shut down debate on important issues and to eliminate opposition viewpoints. It is very transparent what the agenda is. The answer to speech that you don’t like is more speech, not less.
Since the point doesn’t seem to have penetrated, please allow me to re-emphasize the fact that the perpetrator of this horrible crime was not a “radical Republican” he was not a “Republican activist.”
This man was specifically rejected by the Republicans acquainted with him, and he was rejected because his point of view was incompatible with theirs.
Dee has shut down any free speech contrary to her views in her blog. Anything that doesn’t fit her agenda is labeled as “hate speech”. Although, I think Marisa is very misguided and ethnocentric at least she allows all views to be stated in here. She doesn’t attack them either with insults as Dee does either.
Dee spouts “I did not see 1 of them voice any concern or sadness for those murdered.”
Because we choose to respond to your ignorance, finger pointing, and yelling of “HATE SPEECH”, does not mean that there is not sympathy for those who have been killed. Point to follow:
“he did come up to me one time and asked me if I was ready for the REVOLUTION to begin and if I had any IMMIGRANT in my house to GET THEM OUT (giving her an advanced alert of his intent to Murder)” I note you inserted the following “giving her an advanced alert of his intent to Murder”. GET THEM OUT could mean to also tell them to leave. Also, please show, as Lew asks, “Just what evidence do you have that shows this callous murderer listened to talk radio?” If you can not, then you are doing the very thing you are accusing others of doing, inciting HATE against Republicans just because this guy was a Republican activist, which was nothing more than having worked in the local Republican office during the elections as a volunteer. As usual, everyone is Guilty until proven Innocent in your eyes, even more so if they don’t agree with your definitions, but alas, last time I checked you weren’t in charge of any of our laws so that must be good news at least for now.
Sandra while, I guess, I thank you for that backhanded compliment I feel I must let you in on something that I thought was obvious but you seem to have missed it. You state that this site is ethnocentric, as if it’s a mistake. News flash – it’s on purpose. And I understand very well Dee’s position. It’s one thing to disagree with someone but it’s quite another to do it in a demeaning and offensive way. Judging from your responses at Latina Lista, it’s easy to see that you have as much of an agenda of perpetuating the myths of the Republican extremists as I have an agenda of presenting the facts coupled with my opinion. You may have to reread the sentence several times to notice that there is a difference.
“I have an agenda of presenting the facts coupled with my opinion.’
However, Marisa, relating your perspective doesn’t give you license to mislead, misstate the facts, incite hate for the Republican party or deceive, and that’s what your opposition in this blog has claimed you have done.
Sandra’s agenda is always the same as Horace agenda. Either she cannot think for herself or Sandra and Horace are the same person. There is no woman on earth that will agree with everything a man says all the time.
rene j pinto
all i can say that people engaged in hate crime deserve to be killed by electrocution like this bastad who killed these chilean students
Marisa, since you “have an agenda of presenting the facts,” please present documented quotes of the hate speech you say is spewed by Limbaugh, Hannity, Dobbs or any other Republican.
Show us all where any of the radio personalities have ever condoned killing any immigrant or encouraged it.
I’ll wait and keep checking back.
Marisa, I said that you are ethnocentric. That means that you will accept no critism of your ethnic kind, especially those here illegally in our country. It also means putting one’s ethnic kind above everything including the laws of this country. It is the same agenda that Dee has. I don’t know about but she hates the white majority in this country and can’t wait till Hispanics become the majority. The problem is that it isn’t happening naturally. It is directly throught the violation of our immigration laws. What non-Hispanic American should welcome that?
Most anti’s who used to enter Dee’s blog were subject to her accusations of being a racist among other vile name calling. Of course the anti’s would retaliate in kind. So keep in mind that she would start it all the time. Now she just deletes everyone and everything that doesn’t fit her views. Stifle the opposition no matter how civil is her motto now. She also is a pathological liar. There are several people who can back that up including liquidmicro in here. You have no idea Marisa who she really is.
I am not perpetuating anything about Republicans conservative or otherwise. I just get sick of people like you and Dee who blame everything on the Republicans and claim they are the party of racists. There are racists in both parties. This crap about hate speech perpetuating crimes against Hispanics is ridiculous also. Americans are fed up with illegal immmigration and it just happens to be mostly Hispanics who are the biggest offenders. So some nutcases come out of the woodwork because of that not because of any so-called hate speech.
Anyway thanks for allowing all points of view in here and for the most part not going on the personal attack like Dee does.
Lew Waters, just to clarify something: many rank-and-file Democrats and Independents (which I am) want our immigration laws enforced and borders secured and are against a blanket amnesty also. It is the Democratic leaders and elites who are pushing the CIR because they see a new voting block for themselves to keep them in power in perpetuity and virtually eliminate the two-party system (which I think would not be good for the country).
It’s all about political power and since the left derives their power through big government, they want a constituency which will enable them to expand the scope and power of the government which they will control and the quickest way to do that is to import that constituency. I really wonder if the far left was reasonably sure that these people would mostly vote Republican if they would still be so gung-ho on CIR? I highly doubt it. At any rate, the far left agenda intersects with that of the ethnocentric Latinos for now.
Personally, I think this country seriously needs a viable third party not beholding to all of these special interest groups on both the right and left and which will listen to the average person. But I guess that’s probably a pipe dream.
I’m sure you’ve thought about this, but I have to say it: I ADORE your site, love your stories, appreciate your work. But I really really wish you’d moderate your comments and not let some of these folks sabotage and dominate the board. Some (most?) of them, it’s clear, are not listening to you at all, and more importantly, are not open to listening. And I am certain that many folks –Latinos, p.o.c., and other genuine allies who might otherwise contribute substantively– hesitate to post in such a toxic atmosphere.
That’s my two cents….
So much outrage about Latino hate crimes, but so little concern for citizens. This from V.dare.com:
Open Borders Enablers Cry “Hate” But Have Blood On Their Hands
By Brenda Walker
Washington is awash in lies these days, perhaps even more so than under the previous Administration. The new gang of thugs (D-flavor) is pumped up by electoral success and what they imagine to be a popular mandate, failing to recognize that a moral collapse of the Republicans does not mean that the American people are clamoring for more state control and open borders.
One of the symptoms of an increasingly Stalinist left is repression on the basic freedom of free expression.
A common strategy from the left is the accusation of “hate speech”â€”a condemnation attached to any idea with which they disagree, e.g. legal, controlled and reduced immigration.
Speak the truth that any informed person knowsâ€”that Open Borders killâ€”and the response will likely be a bogus accusation of the dreaded “hate speech”, or the nuclear option, “racist”, which will deflate many a discussion. VDARE.com writers are slammed frequently in this way. The aim is to win through intimidation, an approach which is often successful in Europe, where disgruntled Muslims go jihad if they feel insulted. (Over a hundred people were killed around the world during riots by Muslims unhappy about the Danish cartoons mocking Mohammed.)
Anti-hate is a big theme among the multicult crowd. The Southern Poverty Law Center has its Hatewatch blog; La Raza promotes We Can Stop the Hate and Latinos against Hate Speech exhorts its uncritical acolytes to complain about speech protected by the First Amendment. When MALDEF launched its talking points website in 2008, lawyer Peter Zamora declared: “Anti-immigrant hate speech has led to an increase in violent crimes against Latinos and has created tensions which divide communities.”
That’s an interesting theory. But the supporting evidence is often weak and anecdotal at best: a so-called â€œhate crimeâ€ occurs and speech favoring immigration law enforcement is blamed.
When Ecuadoran illegal alien Marcello Lucero was beaten to death on Long Island by a group of drunken teenagers, the New York Times tried to blame the crime on a local pro-borders official, Steve Levy. However, the NYTâ€™s own reporting suggested that the real culprit was the town’s permissive policing toward rowdy teens who were allowed to run wild. (See my VDARE.COM article, Treason Lobby Moves to Suppress Free Speech, for more details on the case.)
In another recent crime, Ecuadoran Jose Sucuzhanay was jumped and beaten to death in Brooklyn as he walked home arm in arm with his brother at 3 am. Gov. David Paterson visited the family and denounced the crime as “not the New York we aspire to.” The New York Times gushed with sentimental coverage, but was somewhat incomplete in its description of the perps: Ecuadorean Man Dies From Beating Before His Mother Arrives to See Him [by Jack Healy, Dec 14, 2008].
“Yelling anti-gay and anti-Hispanic slurs, one of the men broke a bottle over Mr. Sucuzhanayâ€™s head and, when he fell to the ground, another began beating him with a baseball bat, the police said. The men kicked and punched Mr. Sucuzhanay until his brother told them that he was calling the police on his cellphone, the authorities said, and the attackers piled into the S.U.V. and drove away. Romel Sucuzhanay was not seriously injured in the attack.
On Tuesday, the police released a description of one of the men, saying that he is 6 feet tall and thin and that he wore a black leather jacket, boots, dark jeans and a dark baseball cap during the attack. The reward for information was set at $22,000. ”
An inquiring citizen had to read the New York Daily News to learn that Sucuzhanay was attacked by three black men, according to witnesses. (Gov. Paterson visits family of hate crime victim Jose SucuzhaÃ±ay, By Stephanie Gaskell, December 19, 2008). New York Times readers just found that one bad guy was tall andâ€¦wore clothes (!).
So the NYT played up the crime as a terrible thing, but wasn’t concerned enough to include descriptions that might help locate the killers. Doing so would violate a couple of important media myths: 1) that only whites attack colorful oppressed peoples; and 2) that the rainbow coalition of melanin-enhanced persons stand together in solidarity.
False ideas, as the Sucuzhanay killing showed, but the NYT won’t violate its self-defined taboos.
In recent days, a long-simmering murder mystery appears to be solved. Media coverage should prove interesting.
The summer before the 9/11 attacks was filled with the disappearance of 24-year-old Chandra Levy from Washington DC. The Bureau of Prisons intern from Modesto went out for a jog and never came home, leaving her parents distraught and desperate for answers. Despite supposedly thorough searches in Rock Creek Park where she was thought to have gone running, her body was found a year later by a man walking his dog.
Investigation found that Chandra had been romantically involved with Congressman Gary Condit. His shenanigans to cover up the affair looked a lot like a man guilty of murder. He managed to convince the police, much of the press and the public that he was a killer. Only the terrorist attacks removed Condit from frequent media speculation of whether he was a cold-blooded murderer or merely a disgusting cad whose prevarication had slowed police progress with the case.
A more likely killer from the viewpoint of previous behavior was Ingmar Guandique, a Salvadoran illegal alien who had been in and out of police crosshairs. He was a low-level burglar and had attacked two women in Rock Creek Park the same summer Chandra disappeared.
Now, almost eight years later, the news was an eye-opener: Levy Parents ‘Bittersweet’ Over News of Expected Arrest in Daughter’s Murder [Fox News, February 22, 2009].
“Police interviewed and are close to charging California prison inmate Ingmar Guandique for the murder of Levy, who vanished in May 2001, a law enforcement official told FOX News on Saturday. Levy’s body was found a year later in Washington’s Rock Creek Park.
â€œGuandique, a Salvadoran immigrant, was convicted of assaulting two women in the same park around the time of Levy’s disappearance and is serving a 10-year sentence in federal prison.â€
Can we count on the Main Stream Media to examine a Salvadoran killer with the same enthusiasm as they pursued a Congressman?
Might any among the scribbler class note that Chandra’s tragic death was entirely preventable if our immigration system worked to keep out criminals?
Not only was Guandique an illegal entrant, he was also a burglar who had contact with the criminal justice system. Guandique had been arrested for burglary, but he was released back onto the streets after killing Chandra, but before assaulting the other women.
Dangerous, violent foreigners are routinely released again and again because ethnic special interest groups like La Raza and Maldef agitate for sanctuary city policies and other relaxation of law and order. The result is a level of lawlessness that is hard to imagine, where child rapists are freed to walk American streets, as a 2008 Houston Chronicle investigation found. [An abuse of freedom: Many illegal immigrants out on bail commit another crime or vanish before trial, by Susan Carroll, November 17, 2008]. The same series reported on Tina Davila, the mother of five who was killed in a carjacking attempt by an illegal alien who had been in custody, but not deported. Three-year-old Marten Kudlis was struck and killed in Aurora, Colorado, by a truck driven by an illegal who had been arrested 16 times, but never deported.
The blood of these innocents and many more are on the hands of the Open-Borders extremistsâ€”the Raza mouthpieces, the immigration lawyers, the journalists who crank out sob stories about lawbreakers. They work to overthrow our system of law and borders for their own selfish reasons, while the number of dead killed by illegal aliens continues to mount. Yet the Open-Borders enablers act like they are on the side of virtue. Why is that?
The Open Borders side is guilty of more crimes than treason. They must be held to account.
I think that Marisa and her supporting cast have expressed themselves rather straightforwardly; they’ve picked their allies in this dispute, and they’re not U.S. citizens.
Susana, if you are so sure your side is right why would you or those like you feel threatened by a a difference of opinion? Toxic atmosphere? LOL! Well, I think that American citizens who don’t respect our immigration are “toxic” to this country.
This forum is one of the very few pro-illegal ones that allows debate from both sides of the issue without fear of banishment as long as you remain civil. The rest I have participated in stifle freedom of speech by the opposition by labeling it hate speech, insulting you, deleting your posts and then banishing for your opinion. Is this what this country has to look forward to with a Hispanic majority in the future? I certainly hope that you don’t represent the views of the majority of Hispanics in this country.
“Horace,” my friend, still too much time on your hands and nothing to do?
I do wonder what they pay you for ….
Im a democrat who happens to think this man was a nutjob who obviously listened to the anti-immigrant hate talk. Its really sad that these poor students had to lose their lives. Its doesnt matter if they were students, citizens, undocumented…the status just doesnt matter here…a life is a life and they were cut short. This man was a republican minister who was obviously sick and evidently it appears he was influenced by a negative media but I do think if didnt have delusions of the anti-immigrant revolution he might have gravitated towards a hatred towards some other group and kill someone else. This man obviously was ready to snap. He reminds me of Charles Manson and his delusions with the Beatles. If anyone here remembers, Manson went after the hollywood rich celebritys. Its just happens to be that this minister chose to gravitate to the hatred with the anti-immigrant movement. I myself favor the fact that it is against the law to go overboard in the media in Germany and rally up people against one specific group. My father risked his life in World War 2 to take Hitler out and who knows better than then Germans on how hate can become a national disaster. As far as the Republican party goes I have mixed feelings about it. Although I did vote for Obama I happen to like John Mccain and the part of the Republican party that split and many of those republicans that I am friends with are totally for immigration reform. I happen to believe this group would be very saddened by a crime like this. My friends that are Republican are pro-immigration and they are decent religious and generous people. So as far as this being a Republican thing. Nah! This minister was a wackadoodle! but I do agree people like Dobb, Limbaugh and Colter need to really tone it down because they do inspire weirdos and it would make sense for them to get off the anti-immigrant direction because it is obvious they do it to appeal to a nutty crowd just to get their rateings.
I completely agree that there are many good decent human beings who are Republicans.But they don’t engage in hate speech, much less in violence. And they don’t support media or media figures who stir up violence.
Would you have Dobbs, etc. tone down the truth about other law violaters to? Illegal immigration is reported in the news a lot because it is a severe problem in this country. Are we to stay hush hush about it because of a few nutcases?
Yes! Dobbs and Coltier and the anti-immigrant haters need to tone it down. Oh yes! They are afraid they are going to lose their rateings but I believe they arent going to be around much longer because the better half of the Republican party are on a different page. As for the immigration system. It would be realistic for you to focus on the broken legal immigraton system and reform it. As far as Hush, Hush…maybe Coulter and Dobbs should think before they speak.
Laura: I agree with you 100% I was talking to my friend Jenny today who is Republican and she voted for John Mccain and she is totally for immigration reform. She is a great Republican, and she would never harm or use hate speech. She is a wonderful person and she goes to church every Sunday and she is very pro-immigrant.
If they were telling lies, I would agree with you but Dobbs and other anti-illegals are just speaking the truth and that is the REAL reason you want them to tone it down. The truth never makes the opposing side look good, does it?
Sandra, Do you believe that Dobbs and the others are “speaking the truth” because you happen to agree with them? Just wondering.
Bingo Marisa! Well said, Its funny how those Dobbs and Coulter people would care more about winning the argument as opposed to a real solution to the problem.
They speak from the rule of law Marisa and that is good enough for me.
As for Panchito….I found that hillarious. Sandra and Horace are the same people. A man and a woman hardly ever agree any of the time. You are right Sandra and Horace are more of the same,lol…Dobbs and Coultier speak of the rule of law. Whos law do they speak of??? I dont know if you noticed but their rateings are going down…so whats good for you isnt really good for most.
Mary, no Horace and I are not the same person. Grow up! There are a lot of men and women who agree on political issues. If that weren’t true then Republicans would all be men and Democrats would all be women for example. You really seem uneducated and childish to me.
I couldn’t care less about anyone’s tv ratings. I only know what I believe in and I stand by my personal convictions and they are based on the rule of law.
Is it the rule of law?? or is it the rule of Sandra?? I will let you know when I grow up what I think. lol/Sandra, if you are the definition of an educated American…then Id have to say: “I agree with the statement that education is declineing in our country”. Speak for yourself Sandra and not for the Republican party or any party. People from all political backgrounds and ethnic backgrounds are pro-immigration reform. Republican John Mccain recently said; “they are all gods children”. Those are endearing words that most Republicans respect and out of the voice of Americas most patriotic man, who is John Mccain, an American war hero who almost lost his life with his patriotism for our flag, The Red, White and Blue! I think most Americans are listening to John Mccains voice rather than yours.
Just because he was a war hero doesn’t mean that McCain is a god and not accountable to his constituents. Only the weak minded, ill informed and special interest groups agree with his stand on CIR. We’re all God’s children, even Bin Laden but only citizens vote, something McCain will eventually find out. McCain owes nothing to illegal aliens. Remember how his state, Arizona treats illegals. McCain will receive a justly rude awakening one day.
ME, there are no rules of “Sandra”. I follow the rules/laws of our government.
Charles Manson was also one of “God’s children” so what is your point? “God’s children” are still bound by the ten commandments and even in the bibical days were punished for breaking them. God also said we need to obey the laws of the land.
Horace you will receive a justly rude awakeing one day. To even use Bin Landens name in your analogy is sick. And if you noticed in this past election despite all your anti-immigrant rhetoric the majority of the republican party voted for Mccain in the Primary. To take John Mccains statement that comes from scripture and twist it around to make a mockery and judgement on John Mccain is something that you will have to live with when you sleep at night. As far as the citizens votes, you might want to take a look on the electorial maps at real clear politics and you will see the Repulican party is getting smaller and smaller. Why dont you just continue the path you are on so that Republicans do not win another election for the next 32 years! lol
Anti-“immigrant” rhetoric? No, this is about illegal aliens, not legal “immigrants”. They are two entirely different groups. The second group we have no problem with. The first we do because they have no right to be in this country and have violated our immigration laws. No dumba@@ed excuses either!
No Sandra! There are not two entirely different groups to most people here in our country. Their is no such thing as a human being illegal. People are People and that is that!! You see, this is the group you have tried so desperately to continue to segregate in American society and it is not different from segregateing blacks, jews, hispanics etc, etc, etc. You Sandra are what brings our society down. You Sandra hurt the harmony that our children desperately need. Their is only one group in this country and that is all of us Sandra, the people in the United States of America here together in search for the Pursuit of Happiness. You Sandra…have deep rooted issues that are haunted by dark racial programs that you grew up with and the majority of Americans are not going to tolerate your ideas on segregation anymore. You are full of hate and rhetoric Sandra! I was born in this country Sandra and the only thing you have is an opinion. You do not represent the majority of the USA. We are not a Red America, We are not a White America, We are not a Blue America. We are One America and that is the United States of America!!
Are they talking about immigrants? I thought his blog is about illegal immigrants. Why bother talking about immigrants; people who follow our systematic process for legal immigration. Illegal immigrants are no more legitimate residents of the U.S. than the Germans who invaded France during WWII. The French had their collaborators too, but we call ours advocates of illegal aliens.
Are they talking about immigrants? I thought his blog is about illegal immigrants. Why bother talking about immigrants; people who follow our systematic process for legal immigration. Everyone loves those people. Illegal immigrants are no more legitimate residents of the U.S. than the Germans who invaded France during WWII. The French had their collaborators too, but we call ours advocates of illegal aliens.
“No Sandra! There are not two entirely different groups to most people here in our country. Their is no such thing as a human being illegal. People are People and that is that!! You see, this is the group you have tried so desperately to continue to segregate in American society and it is not different from segregateing blacks, jews, hispanics etc, etc, etc. You Sandra are what brings our society down.”
What complete drivel! Evey member of the United Nations, including Mexico, and countries in Central America, reserves the right to expel (deport) foreign nationals from their territory. They may not call their trespassers illegal aliens, but they still get the heave ho, nevertheless! To compare illegal aliens to discriminated minority groups is stretching credulity, and shows just how nutty you are, ME. You’re pathetic!
ME are you for real? Are you truly saying that there is no distinction between legal immigrants and illegal aliens? You might want to try to argue that point with the government; you might also want to try to argue that with legal immigrants who have gone through the immigration process.
Your statement is the most stupid statement I’ve ever seen on any blog anywhere! No human being is “illegal,” but human beings can be illegally present in our country or any other country for that matter! Do you really believe that anyone who manages to make it undetected across our border, or who overstays a visa is automatically “entitled” to remain here!? You need to put down the crack pipe! And comparing the distinction between legal immigrants and illegal aliens to segregation is a complete insult to African Americans who suffered through the Jim Crow laws! They were AMERICAN CITIZENS who had every right to the “pursuit of happiness.” Illegals have no inherent right to be here! They have the right to “pursue happiness” in their OWN DAMNED COUNTRIES! They only have the right to do so here if they have come legally as other legal immigrants have.
Ask Mexico or any other country if those who have illegally entered their country have a “right” to stay there, work, and use public services. The answer will be a big, fat “NO!” It’s really extremely difficult to take you seriously when you make such absurd and obviously untrue statements to the effect that illegal aliens and legal immigrants are all in the same group! You are beyond ridiculous at this point and really grasping at straws.
The only person obssessed with race are the pro-illegals. They are the ones who are making this all about race BECAUSE THEY HAVE NOTHING ELSE EXCEPT FOR EMOTIONAL ARGUMENTS. “Illegal” is not a race! There are Irish illegals, Eastern European, as well as others! If you weren’t so obssessed with racial issues, you would understand that. You REALLY need to put away your race card as it is completely and totally WORN OUT!
“…..to most people here in our country. Their is no such thing as a human being illegal.”
ME, if you live in a Latino community this may be true. Latino advocates and their friends, who look around them and socialize within their own ethnic group are bobbleheaded, tending to mutually support the concept that no one is illegal, but in this they are self-deceiving, as outside their Spanish speaking enclave, the vast majority of Americans perceive otherwise. I think that the failure of CIR to pass the first time around is indicative of this truth. The worsening of the economy and the competition between citizens and non-citizens for work has only exacerbated opposition to illegal immigration. While it would appear that Democrats coming to power would improve the Latino position to bully politicians into fulfilling their desires, they are too late, having been overcome by catastrophic events. Americans will never give illegal immigrants the opportunity work while they themselves are losing their jobs by the thousands. The day of the illegal immigrant is over.
I use to employ an illegal alien but when I found out that he had given me false documents I fired him. I really didn’t give this a thought until I was made aware of the problem one day on Lou Dobb’s show. I agree with Horace, Americans should be supportive of their fellow citizens during these hard times and ascertain the immigration status or citizenship of everyone we employ. We’ve got to be mutually supportive and stick together as loyal Americans. Foreigners will have to address their employment problems to their respective countries.
I do not live in a latino community. The truth is people are people. When you prick our skin we all bleed red and I think you know that. The truth here is the majority of Americans are pro-immigration reform. As you see….the results of the election have given us CHANGE…and change is here and in just a matter of time you will see you will have to find another issue to complain about.
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