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Latina Lista: News from the Latinx perspective > Columns & Features > Guest Voz > Guest Voz: Academic researchers discover the lack of comprehensive immigration reform increases disparities and limits future progress of Latinos nationwide

Guest Voz: Academic researchers discover the lack of comprehensive immigration reform increases disparities and limits future progress of Latinos nationwide

By Maria del Carmen Salazar, Ph.D.
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Dr. Maria del Carmen Salazar
Dr. Maria del Carmen Salazar of the University of Denver served as the lead author on “Agenda Latina,” a report that evaluated the current economic, health and educational state of Latinos in the nation. The dismal findings are not new but are underscored by a new sense of urgency in light of accelerating disparities experienced by Latinos, along with, aggressive federal enforcement of current immigration laws which has adversely impacted the Latino community and is revealing to play a part in the impediment of the overall future progress of Latinos.

The University of Denver Center for Community Engagement and Scholarship (DULCCES) is set to release a comprehensive document titled, Agenda Latina The State of Latinos 2008: Defining an Agenda for the Future.
The Agenda Latina presents the most pressing issues facing the Latino community in the areas of education, the economy, health, immigration, and political engagement. DULCCES faculty rigorously researched each topic and consulted national experts. In addition, we consulted leaders from Denver community organizations to develop a deeper understanding of the impact of the issues on the Latino community.
While we speak in generalizations, we acknowledge the intra-group diversity that exists within the Latino community including national origin, immigration status, language proficiency, and socioeconomic status. Our research indicates that the Latino population is the fastest growing and youngest ethnic group in the country.
They also face increasing disparities in education, economic opportunities, and healthcare. For example, Latinos in the U.S. experience persistent achievement gaps from pre-school to graduate school. That is to say, Latinos drop out of high school at greater rates, and have lower high school and college graduation rates than other ethnic groups. Overall, Latinos are unprepared for the educational and career demands of the 21st century.
In addition, Latinos in the U.S. experience higher unemployment rates than other ethnic groups, are disproportionately impacted by the higher cost of living, face increasing wealth disparities, and have limited access to affordable credit. Latinos also experience greater disparities in access to quality healthcare, including growing disparities in the rates of life-threatening diseases, a widespread lack of insurance in the Latino community, lack of health-related education, and an inadequate supply of bilingual language services and culturally competent services.
We found that a lack of comprehensive immigration reform increases disparities and limits the future progress of the Latino community and the nation.

In regards to political engagement, Latinos are becoming increasingly engaged in the political arena and represent an electorate with great potential for significant impact.
However, increased efforts are needed to increase voting rates.
Our overall recommendations include increasing Latino’s access to quality education, healthcare, and economic services. We advocate for support in building the wealth and financial stability of the Latino community.
There must also be an increase in linguistically and culturally relevant practices in education, healthcare, economic access, immigration reform, and political engagement. In addition, advancing comprehensive and humane immigration reform is essential to the future prosperity of the Latino community.
Finally, we must increase opportunities to build alliances among organizations that support Latino community development.
We will present our Agenda Latina to members of the U.S. Congress on September 23, 2008 in the United States Capitol in Washington D.C.
The time is now. We must refuse to be relegated to the back of the bus. We are a vibrant community with vast natural resources. We desire self-sufficiency and strive for prosperity for our community and our nation.
The time is now! Rise mi gente, rise!

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Comment(53)

  • Avatar
    Evelyn
    September 6, 2008 at 9:30 am

    This was directed at me and Marissa and left way back. Permission to move it here, please.
    Ariella Z said
    I am Mexican, my husband IS Mexican and we had to fight thru 7 years of red tape to become legal citizens of the United states.
    Because I do not believe it is OK to break the law no matter how good the reason for doing so is, and the illegals that have come here should have to go back and do things teh right way does that make me a racist? Am I traitor to my own people? Am I to be accused of racism? Because if I was white the awnser would be yes… But because I am brown what does that make me… Please ket me know because depending on what color does the posting automatically categorizes if they are a racist.. so I would like an honest opinion as to what I am?
    Thank you very much, I am however very curious to see what Evelyn and marisa could offer up to my dilema..makes me wonder
    E
    Discriminatory behavior like Ignorance has no color barriers.
    The fact that you and your husband were fortunate enough to qualify to fix your immigration situation is a good thing and I congratulate you on becoming a citizen.
    It is unfortunate that you would use your good fortune as example to other migrants coming from certain Countries like Mexico.
    The U.S. has no line like the one you were fortunate to wait in unless like you they have An American citizen child over the age of 21 like you.
    Unless you can show a line for ordinary Mexicans like the one you were fortunate enough to wait in, then I will say it is due your ignorance in matters of immigration that you would suggest they get into a line that for them doesent exist.

  • Avatar
    Evelyn
    September 6, 2008 at 10:03 am

    This is just one more reason why all American citizens who are Hispanics mustn’t sit back and say the immigration debate doesent affect them because they are legal.
    The exposure given those behind the failure of the last immigration bill has turned the tide in our favor!!!
    People like Arella Z in the article above are an example of that.
    I got mine, to heck with the rest of my indigenous brothers and sisters.
    Wake up hermanos y hermanas, every one of you need to stand up and let your voice be heard. NO TO DISCRIMINATION!!!
    YES TO CIR!!!
    If Obama forgets his promise, we will just have to remind him by taking to the streets once more. We already did it once without organization.
    Imagine what we can do now that we are organized and have Native America Nations including millions of Euro-Americans who are disgusted by racism on our side.
    The American Revolution was fought by men and women who broke the laws of England and of King George III. Had they been arrested, they would have been hanged for treason to the Crown. If breaking the law makes one a criminal, then the Founding Fathers were all criminals. But no one believes that today.

  • Avatar
    Horace
    September 6, 2008 at 12:50 pm

    What absolute drivel implying that Hispanics are entitled to special treatment over others trying to become citizens. Duh! The lady concludes that it is somehow this country’s fault that illegal aliens who are here in contravention to immigration law are doing poorly in school. This is nothing but pointing to what everyone but the blind have been saying for years. Considering their poor educational backgrounds prior to entry to this country, it is hardly a wonder that they fail in this country. It takes sheer chutzpah to blame this all on the lack of CIR or the American people who kind of like law and order in their society. Only whacko ethnocentrics would find such commentary less than absurd or remotely enlightening.
    Yes, although stuck in a dust bowl in Camp Liberty, Baghdad, Horace returns to interject sanity into a blog otherwise devoid of it.

  • Avatar
    Marisa Treviño
    September 6, 2008 at 2:53 pm

    Horace, it’s a bittersweet pleasure to hear from you 🙂

  • Avatar
    Evelyn
    September 6, 2008 at 6:14 pm

    Horace, it’s good to hear from you. You and those who accompany you are in my prayers, so when you hear the buzz in your ear you’ll know it’s me. Keep yourselves safe.
    Evelyn

  • Avatar
    Texano78704
    September 6, 2008 at 7:10 pm

    The struggle of Latinos to educate ourselves and our children, and to improve our economic situation is the same struggle that the poor have here in this country.
    The issue is class warfare. Latinos, as much as anyone else, deserve to receive a living wage for their work. They deserve to see Brown v. Board of Education honored so that their children not only have opportunities, but do in fact succeed.

  • Avatar
    Michaela
    September 6, 2008 at 7:25 pm

    Hi Horace, great to hear from you!! Sometimes I think if Evelyn doesn’t get her way about this CIR stuff she will blow a gasket. I still don’t get where the entitlement attitude comes from and why we Americans are to blame for all the problems of Mexico???

  • Avatar
    Evelyn
    September 6, 2008 at 8:45 pm

    Michaela :
    Hi Horace, great to hear from you!! Sometimes I think if Evelyn doesn’t get her way about this CIR stuff she will blow a gasket. I still don’t get where the entitlement attitude comes from and why we Americans are to blame for all the problems of Mexico???
    E
    Can’t you get through one post without my name in it?
    You cant get it because it takes a person who isnt in denial or blinded to get it!

  • Avatar
    Michaela
    September 7, 2008 at 1:03 pm

    Michaela :
    I still don’t get where the entitlement attitude comes from and why we Americans are to blame for all the problems of Mexico???
    E
    You cant get it because it takes a person who isnt in denial or blinded to get it!
    Well then if I am in such denial, please explain to me just why Americans are to blame and where this entitlement attitude comes from? I’m very open to the facts, not your opinion, the facts. Tell me why Evelyn, that Americans are to blame and then explain to me what is up with this “entitlement” attitude people in our country in violation of our immigration laws have. I would really like to understand that. Thank you in advance for your unbiased, mature answer.

  • Avatar
    Evelyn
    September 7, 2008 at 9:31 pm

    What sence of entitilment? I dont know anyone with a sence of entitlement except for those who believe in “Manifest Destiny”. Immigrants come because they need to work to feed their families.
    The United States seized huge chunks of Mexican territory in the mid-1800s. And as U.S. capitalism developed into a worldwide imperialist empire, it has dominated, oppressed, and distorted the economy and development of the whole country of Mexico, feeding off its people and its resources.
    Then in 1994, this domination took a new leap with the so called “free trade” agreement (NAFTA), which gave the U.S. imperialists more freedom to squeeze even more profits out of Mexico.
    The results have been disastrous for the masses of people in Mexico.
    We made it impossible to make a living off their land like they used to, because NAFTA knocked down what protection there was for small farmers in Mexico.
    They could no longer compete with the cheaper corn and other crops, produced by huge U.S. agribusiness corporations, that flooded Mexico.
    More than six million peasants have been driven from the countryside since 1994 because they can no longer feed themselves and their families by farming.
    And the shantytowns around Mexico’s cities, already swollen with the very poor and the displaced, offer no way out.
    So that is why millions of immigrant workers have ended up in the U.S. as “illegals.”
    It’s not a matter of choice. It’s not that these immigrants want to willfully break the law or freeload off social services or steal American jobs or any of the other lies that the rulers of this system tell about them, and that too many people are taken in by.
    The truth is that the immigrants have been forced across the border by the workings of the capitalist imperialist system and the policies of those in power.
    Once in the U.S., these immigrant workers are super-exploited, working the most low-paying and dangerous jobs.
    Again, the immigrants do not choose to work such jobs. Those are the only kind of work offered to them under the U.S. capitalist economy, which has become so dependent on the exploitation of immigrant labor that it cannot function without it.
    The immigrants have to work those jobs, or face starvation for themselves and their families.
    And the capitalist rulers use the immigrants “illegal” status, which is the result of this system’s workings in the first place, to keep them suppressed and under control.
    Step out of line the immigrants are told, and you’ll not only lose your job, you’ll be arrested, deported, and separated from your children.
    Immigrant communities are being terrorized by a fascist crackdown widespread immigration round-ups, massive deportations, racist vigilantes, more policing on the border, etc.
    The rulers of this country, aided by the mass media, work hard to keep the people ignorant of the truth, in order to use the immigrants as scapegoats for all the insecurities and problems that this capitalist system has forced on the majority of people.
    Many in the middle class feel their living standards and quality of life under attack, and they are being misled by the mouthpieces for the capitalist, imperialist system that is actually responsible for the bad shape things are in.
    The ruining of Mexico’s economy that has driven millions into desperation, horrors for millions of immigrants forced into slavery like conditions in the U.S.
    The prejudice against immigrants that is fanned to keep people divided, the fascistic roundups and cruel break-up of families, all of these are the products of this capitalist imperialist system
    Mexicans cant even elect a president of their choice without the U.S. gov. butting into their business.
    The last election Mexico elected a president that was in favor of renegotiating NAFTA or scrapping it because the U.S. hasent kept their side of the treaty. Here is the story on that. How the U.S. didnt allow him to be elected.
    http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2006/07/341919.shtml
    http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2006/07/342179.shtml
    You know, maybe you really dont know about all these injustices.

  • Avatar
    Michaela
    September 7, 2008 at 10:39 pm

    The United States seized huge chunks of Mexican territory in the mid-1800s.
    The United States bought this territory in 1848 for approximately 18 MILLION dollars, the equivalent of over 300 MILLION in today’s dollars. So stop with the “U.S. seized” crap. If Mexico wants that land back the U.S. will be charging 300 million for it.

  • Avatar
    Michaela
    September 7, 2008 at 10:44 pm

    E
    The rulers of this country, aided by the mass media, work hard to keep the people ignorant of the truth, in order to use the immigrants as scapegoats for all the insecurities and problems that this capitalist system has forced on the majority of people.”
    The rulers in Mexico use people like Mexican agent Isabel Garcia to help illegals enter our country so they can be used for slave labor. Isabel Garcia and her ilk her directly responsible for the deaths of hundreds of illegal immigrants.
    The government of Mexico does not want their poor, they could care less about them. They could care less if their poor people die from hunger or thirst or are raped or murdered by coyotes. Blame Mexico and people like Isabel Garcia for this outrage along with greedy, selfish Americans.

  • Avatar
    Horace
    September 8, 2008 at 1:11 pm

    “The United States seized huge chunks of Mexican territory in the mid-1800s.”
    Ask a Mexican which government, U.S. or Mexican, he/she would like to live under and I’d venture a guess that that goverment wouldn’t be primarily made up of Hispanics. It’s not a matter of whether Mexico or the U.S. owns the territory lost by Mexico, but how the people who live there are treated. Few Mexicans would rather live under a Mexican government, as evidenced by which direction their heading to escape poverty.

  • Avatar
    Evelyn
    September 8, 2008 at 1:17 pm

    Michaela said:
    The United States bought this territory in 1848 for approximately 18 MILLION dollars, the equivalent of over 300 MILLION in today’s dollars.
    E
    That is the WHITEWASHED version of what happened.
    That is what ‘Manifest Destiny’ was about forced occupation of the land. The U.S. gov. (Polk) wanted the land so he INVADED Mexico under false pretenses. Mexico still reeling from a war with Spain was unable to defend herself.
    ~~~~~~
    The United States bought this territory in 1848 for approximately 18 MILLION dollars, the equivalent of over 300 MILLION in today’s dollars. So stop with the “U.S. seized” crap.
    E
    The United States paid a Spaniard who was exiled to Cuba for land he didnt have a right to sell.
    ~~~~
    If Mexico wants that land back the U.S. will be charging 300 million for it.
    E
    I dont think so!
    I think you will be rolling in your grave wishing you had taught your children and grandchildren not to hate the bronze people who will be the majority in the future.
    One bronze and black and yellow baby at a time without paying one single penny.
    Your grandchildren will be infected with hate for bronze people just like you. They will emulate you.
    Just like you, they will also pay for your sins.

  • Avatar
    Evelyn
    September 8, 2008 at 2:09 pm

    Michaela
    Please enlighten me, who is Isabel Garcia???? What are you talking about?
    I am well aware about the Gov. of Mexico.
    Let me enlighten you on that subject.
    http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2006/07/341919.shtml
    http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2006/07/342179.shtml

  • Avatar
    Texano78704
    September 8, 2008 at 4:19 pm

    Thank Evelyn (again) for bringing to light what happened during the Mexican American War.
    Here is the perspective of US officer who fought in that war:
    “Generally, the officers of the army were indifferent whether the annexation was consummated or not; but not so all of them.
    For myself, I was bitterly opposed to the measure, and to this day regard the war, which resulted, as one of the most unjust ever waged by a stronger against a weaker nation.
    It was an instance of a republic following the bad example of European monarchies, in not considering justice in their desire to acquire additional territory.”
    That was from the US officer’s memoirs published in 1885. He also commented to the journalist and diplomat, John Russell Young, the following in 1879.
    “I had very strong opinions on the subject. I do not think there was ever a more wicked war than that waged by the United States on Mexico. I had a horror of the Mexican War, and I have always believed that it was on our part most unjust. The wickedness was not in the way our soldiers conducted it, but in the conduct of our government in declaring was. We had no claim on Mexico. Texas had no claim beyond the Nueces River, and yet we pushed on to the Rio Grande and crossed it. I am always ashamed of my country when I think of that invasion”
    I know what you are thinking, this is just the rant of some disgruntled Army officer. Perhaps that is true, but he was also the 18th President of the USA.

  • Avatar
    Michaela
    September 8, 2008 at 5:22 pm

    E
    The United States paid a Spaniard who was exiled to Cuba for land he didnt have a right to sell.
    Oh come on Evelyn…where do YOU get YOUR info from? A very greedy Mexican, Santa Ana, was the one who made the deal to sell Mexico…blame him!

  • Avatar
    Michaela
    September 8, 2008 at 5:33 pm

    Evelyn, enlighten YOURSELF about Isabel Garcia…pretending you don’t know who she is, give me a break…..sigh.
    E
    Your grandchildren will be infected with hate for bronze people just like you.
    You make me laugh Evelyn, such a hypocrite. YOUR grandchildren are the ones who will be infected with hatred for the “white devil” because you will carry on the legacy of hate your racist caretaker left you. The way you live is the way you judge Evelyn. I doubt you can fully comprehend this Mexican saying, but if you ever do, your world will change.
    You are the brown equivalent of Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. You will not allow hate to die. You will be the eternal victim because YOU LIKE BEING A VICTIM and it serves your selfish purpose in this world. This is the reason many browns and blacks do not move ahead in this world, and that is so very tragic. I pity you Evelyn, truly pity you.

  • Avatar
    Horace
    September 8, 2008 at 9:49 pm

    We’ll give it back, evelyn, and you can live there under the current crime ridden culture of Mexico, its plutocrats and criminals. Watch the illegal immigrants move into territory still under U.S. contro.

  • Avatar
    Evelyn
    September 9, 2008 at 9:02 am

    Horace :
    We’ll give it back, evelyn, and you can live there under the current crime ridden culture of Mexico, its plutocrats and criminals. Watch the illegal immigrants move into territory still under U.S. contro.
    E
    I am not gonna fight with you from here so dont agitate! Concentrate on what is important.
    If you still want though, when you get back we can go on that date you asked me for last year and then get married like you suggested and go live there. That is of course if your wife doesent mind! LOL!

  • Avatar
    Horace
    September 9, 2008 at 12:03 pm

    Too late, you had your chance, Evelyn, but my heart belongs to Sarah Palin, the next Vice President of the U.S.

  • Avatar
    Evelyn
    September 9, 2008 at 1:49 pm

    Michaela :
    Evelyn, enlighten YOURSELF about Isabel Garcia…pretending you don’t know who she is, give me a break…..sigh.
    E
    Whats the matter M were you afraid to go on and say what you wanted about Isabel because you knew how foolish you would look lying again? HA! HA!
    You’ve got to remember those lies dont fly here like they do at M Bee!
    ~~~~~~
    Your grandchildren will be infected with hate for bronze people just like you.
    You make me laugh Evelyn, such a hypocrite. YOUR grandchildren are the ones who will be infected with hatred for the “white devil”
    E
    WOW! “white devil” what a way to describe yourself and the rest of those who embrace discriminatory behavior!
    I will say one thing though, it is a good description, because only someone evil like the devil would do what you guys do.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~
    because you will carry on the legacy of hate your racist caretaker left you. The way you live is the way you judge Evelyn. I doubt you can fully comprehend this Mexican saying, but if you ever do, your world will change.
    E
    I understand it perfectly, I am fluent in Spanish as well as English and several indigenous dialects.
    I learned Spanish because I lived in many Spanish speaking countries as a child with my parents where they worked.
    “Asi como vives jusgas” transulated
    “The way you live is the way you judge”
    I live fighting for justice, equality and freedom for all.
    The question is, how do you live M. Reflect on the fact that you lap up lies, and help spread them, to demonize an ethnic group of people you hate, and want to exclude from everything, including the U.S.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~
    You are the brown equivalent of Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton.
    E
    First of all I am not brown. I am white and have reddish blonde hair like my father and deep blue eyes like my grandmother Patrick, his mother!
    Not that it matters because it’s what is on the inside that counts.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    You will not allow hate to die.
    E
    For someone who has revived hate against Hispanics and immigrants, to tell me I dont let it die because I fight against the hate and exclusion you support, is hypocritical at least!
    ~~~~~~~~~~~
    You will be the eternal victim because YOU LIKE BEING A VICTIM and it serves your selfish purpose in this world.
    E
    My purpose is selfish to you and those of your ilk, because your views of ‘lily white surroundings’ are threatened.
    Thats funny in your case because I have it on good authority that you are Hispanic.
    I, am not the victim of anything or anyone, in fact contrary to what you believe I have been more then blessed in every way.
    It is however your shame, that many brothers and sisters ARE, your victims!
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~
    This is the reason many browns and blacks do not move ahead in this world, and that is so very tragic.
    E
    WRONG! It is because of people like you who hate and try to exclude them!
    ~~~~~~~~~~~
    I pity you Evelyn, truly pity you.
    E
    You have no reason to pity me. The one you should pity is yourself….. you really need it.
    I want you to know, people like you are in my prayers.
    Jesus said it best before he was crucified…. Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.
    In the future stick to the issues, I dont like debating only your views of me! If you try again I will ignore you like I do liquid.

  • Avatar
    Evelyn
    September 9, 2008 at 10:59 pm

    Horace :
    Too late, you had your chance, Evelyn, but my heart belongs to Sarah Palin, the next Vice President of the U.S.
    E
    Well, sence you choose her over me, you’re gonna have to get in line.
    Your momma wouldent have liked me anyway, cause I am not fat. LOL!
    Did Sarah Palin Have An Affair With One Of Her Husband’s Business Associates?
    September 4, 2008
    Source:The Washington Post
    But even as the campaign sought to put the vetting questions behind them, it elected to make a public statement about another potential controversy – an anonymously sourced report in the National Enquirer alleging Palin had an affair with an associate of her husband. “The allegations contained on the cover of the National Enquirer insinuating that Governor Palin had an extramarital affair are categorically false,” Schmidt said in the statement. “It is a vicious lie.”
    E
    If it is ‘a vicious lie,’ why is McBush threatening to sue?
    And why did the guy whose wife divorced him have the records sealed a few days ago?

  • Avatar
    Horace
    September 10, 2008 at 1:15 pm

    “E
    First of all I am not brown. I am white and have reddish blonde hair like my father and deep blue eyes like my grandmother Patrick, his mother!”
    Patrick? Again, a new revelation. I remember when you claimed that “Patrick” was a pseudonym. Which is it, pseudonym or true sirname?

  • Avatar
    Michaela
    September 10, 2008 at 5:24 pm

    E
    First of all I am not brown. I am white
    Oh really? Hmm, that is interesting Evie.
    E
    I live fighting for justice, equality and freedom for all.
    You live only for one group Eve. Your self-righteousness is really sickening. Can you really not see that about yourself? You call everybody racist, hateful, etc., etc., when you are just as bad. Where in the name of all that is holy did you learn this vicious hatred that lives inside you? I feel even sorrier for you now than I did before. Do you spread this vicous hatred to your students?

  • Avatar
    Evelyn
    September 10, 2008 at 7:56 pm

    Public defender didn’t violate rules in immigration protest
    County: Demonstration with piñata OK despite public job
    A.J. FLICK
    Tucson Citizen
    Pima County Administrator Chuck Huckelberry says Pima County Public Defender Isabel Garcia didn’t violate any policy by protesting at a controversial event.
    The county heard from 775 writers and callers in favor of Garcia’s actions, 229 against.

  • Avatar
    Evelyn
    September 10, 2008 at 10:56 pm

    Horace :
    “E
    First of all I am not brown. I am white and have reddish blonde hair like my father and deep blue eyes like my grandmother Patrick, his mother!”
    Patrick? Again, a new revelation. I remember when you claimed that “Patrick” was a pseudonym. Which is it, pseudonym or true sirname?
    E
    No Horace, I never said it was a pseudonym, I said it wasent my last name.
    I have talked about my grandmother here before and the fact that her sirname was Patrick, that is before she married.
    When I post under Chavez, the post goes to file. I use Patrick sometimes if a last name is required. For obvious reasons I dont use my own.

  • Avatar
    Evelyn
    September 10, 2008 at 11:10 pm

    Go play barbies M.
    Till you can come up with an issue to debate.
    When are you going to get it through your thick skull I dont care what you think of me!
    In fact I am glad you attack me the way you do, it shows what I say hits a nerve and TRUTH bothers you so much you cant leave me alone.

  • Avatar
    Michaela
    September 12, 2008 at 4:46 pm

    E
    In fact I am glad you attack me the way you do, it shows what I say hits a nerve and TRUTH bothers you so much you cant leave me alone.
    You crack me up Evie. You are the one doing the attacking and usually in such a childish way. You are the one who needs to go play with your Barbie.
    YOUR truth is what bothers me, because it is mostly propaganda and lies you have either naively bought into or deliberately bought into. Either way, you clearly are not on the side of America.

  • Avatar
    Evelyn
    September 12, 2008 at 11:20 pm

    I have asked you over and over and over to offer proof of any of the lies you spread. Never have you presented any.
    Everything I present as proof is accompanied by a study, statement, or written fact and a link.
    You call it lies and propaganda because it PROVES most of your lies and exposes you.
    I am clearly not on the side of those who discriminate. Neither are all the people who are voting for Obama and many voting for McBush even though they know his stance on immigration.
    That is what it all comes back to, immigration.

  • Avatar
    Alex
    September 14, 2008 at 12:49 pm

    Evelyn Is on America’s side. She is also on the side of Justice, Compassion, Humanity, and mostly on the side of Christian Values, that the Republiklans misleadingly say to believe in, that make an obligation to defend the defensless and expose evil when its presence is evident like these paid bloggers from racist groups that just spin the truth to cover their xenophobia.

  • Avatar
    Michaela
    September 20, 2008 at 12:29 am

    She is not on America’s side. Evelyn is so far left she’s just about off of the map. Her entire argument for this illegal invasion is that the big, bad, imperialist, Capitalist U.S. has “expoited and oppressed” Mexicans for hundreds of years and it’s ALL OUR FAULT that they are a craphole! Therefore, we OWE them to allow their people to crash in here at will and pay for their educations, social services, and allow them to take our jobs and pretty much do what they want. WE OWE MEXICO AND MEXICANS!
    Truth is that Mexico has ALWAYS been a basket case. It was in 1848, it was in 1948 (long BEFORE NAFTA!) and it is NOW! Corruption is institutionalized in Mexico and permeates EVERY aspect of their society!! It has since its inception. The wealthy and powerful of Mexico REFUSE to assume responsibility for their poor and uneducated, mostly indigenous population—unlike the U.S. which has made great efforts to improve the situations of the Native Americans who are native to the U.S. They instead encourage their poor to migrate North, then laugh all the way to the bank at the stupid gringos who are footing the bill. Those are the cold, hard facts that Evelyn does not want to acknowledge.
    The facts are that MEXICO when it was a colony of SPAIN “stole” the land which is now the Southwest from the tribes indigenous to THIS part of the continent (U.S. tribes). The Spanish then established Catholic missions, and granted land to ranchers. The Southwest was very sparsely populated at the time with Spanish ranchers, Catholic missions, and Native American tribes. It was just about ignored by Mexico City and, in fact, the Mexicans invited Americans to settle in TX partly as a buffer between Mexico and the hostile Native American tribes. The Mexicans were afraid of them. They were NOT “one people.” The U.S. tribes chased the Mexicans out of their territories.
    There is so much WRONG with Evelyn’s Marxist propaganda. She talks about “whitewashing” history. Her history is Marxist revisionist history taught in Marxist Chicano studies classes. It’s a BIG, BIG problem. She can’t get around the fact that the U.S. is now a sovereign nation with internationally recognized borders, regardless of anything that happened in the past. So she just goes round and round trying to find a way to justify the invasion of her precious Mexicans/Latinos by invoking past historical events.
    These socialists are attempting to apply 17th and 18th century ethos to 21st century sensibilities for the purpose of crippling us from defending ourselves with “white guilt.” The Americans of that time did not do anything different than any other group did back in the day. Europeans repelled wave after wave of invaders into Europe. The thing is that the whites had much more advanced weaponry than the “indigenous” (and they aren’t “indigenous” either because THEY TOO migrated from Mongolia via the Bering Straits). History shows that the society which possessed the most advanced weaponry usually emerged as the victors. The Native Americans fought for their land and their culture; they were defeated just as many peoples were defeated all throughout the history of mankind. Somehow, though, it is only WHITE AMERICANS who are made to feel guilty for their victory and building this nation into one to which people from all over the world seek to immigrate.
    Yes, it was a tragedy for the Native Americans just as it was a tragedy for the Spanish who were defeated by the Moors and the Moors who were in turn defeated by the Spanish 800 years later just as it was a tragedy for the Romans who were defeated by the Huns who then plunged Western civilization into the Dark Ages! To people like her, whites are always the oppressors while non-whites are always the victims/oppressed. Then anything the “oppressed” do to oppose their “oppressors” is justified as fighting for “justice and equality” and against “racism” even if they are blatant racists and hostile ethnics themselves. Isn’t that a neat trick?

  • Avatar
    Evelyn
    September 21, 2008 at 1:47 pm

    It is good to know not all Americans are afraid of the truth! Those that aren’t are educated, have a mind of their own, would never follow orders from ethnocentric leaders, (Tanton) and dont have a discrimatory bone in their bodies.
    Good for them! Gee there must be thousands, they are the people voting for OBAMA, JUST LIKE ME. Those who ………………………….still cling to racism dont have a candidate to vote for that has a chance of winning.
    All their candidates were KICKED TO THE CURB. LOL!
    ~~~~
    What Are We Actually Celebrating on July 4th?
    Bill Webb
    This will probably piss off quite a few people, but too bad. I’ve asked myself this question every year for the past couple of decades, and now I’m asking you.
    What are we celebrating with all this patriotic, jingoistic stuff on “Independence Day?”
    Let’s see:
    Our ancestors came to this continent and took it away from its rightful owners.
    We used our stolen riches — and our isolation — to build navies that could project our power globally. Then we exerted sufficient control over vast areas of the world to enable us to plunder their riches (whether economically, politically, or by actual force) and turn it to our own purposes, usually messing up their countries into the bargain. We planned and executed one political coup after another, invaded and subdued anyone who stood in the way of our life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, and basically took what we wanted, whether material or simply in terms of others’ freedom of choice.
    We continue to do precisely the same things today. Our President just spent $5 trillion over the past six years or so. What did we get out of it? We don’t even get the free medical care that is taken for granted by residents in other developed countries. The rest of the world got a war, and a training ground for would-be terrorists that could never, in the wildest stretch of imagination, have been built by the terrorists themselves. They also got a lesson in what the United States of America, cradle of “freedom,” thinks about the rest of the world and its wellbeing.
    “Manifest Destiny,” then and now.
    We are by far the world’s richest country, yet what do we give back to the rest of the world? Peanuts. Fragments of peanuts. And we’re so freaking selfish that we don’t even want any outsiders coming here to work for their share (the way our forebears did, BTW).
    Shame on us! If we’re not getting what we need, it’s because a few — a very few — other people are taking a great deal more than they need, not because some poor folks are coming here to scrabble on the bottom of the heap so they can make a few bucks to send back home to their families.
    So tell me: what are we celebrating?
    Now, the standard retort to this sort of thing is, “Well, if you hate America so much, why don’t you leave?” Hold on there, Jethro — did I say I hated America? Looking at it realistically, being a bit ashamed of it, isn’t the same thing as hating it. And why don’t I leave? Because I’m not any more willing than you are, Jethro, to give up my piece of everyone else’s pie. I may or may not work a bit more than average at giving something back, but that’s another issue.
    You see, regardless of how you think I should feel, we do (at least for the next little while) have a right to say and write what we think in this country, and this is what I think. I think, in view of the price we’ve exacted from the rest of the world for our supremacy, that we should be giving back 10% of our GNP in foreign aid, medical assistance and environmental remediation. We could easily afford that if we gave up fighting unjust wars and supporting the military-industrial economy that necessitates our fighting them. The remaining
    90% should be enough for us, considering that it would still be far greater than the share of any other country (and a couple of continents). It’s even possible that, when the rest of the world began to see us as the good guys we claim to be, it might just alleviate the excuses for all those wars. Oh, my! How would the rich folks take our tax money then, eh?
    It will never happen, but that’s what would make me proud. That would give me something I thought was worth celebrating. I like living here. I would never do anything to harm my homeland. But we didn’t earn what we’ve got, we took it from others.
    Proud of that?
    My momma raised me better.
    And if this does piss you off, maybe it’s because you’re feeling a bit guilty.
    http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/31312

  • Avatar
    Alex
    September 21, 2008 at 5:51 pm

    The fact is that poverty and the opportunity to provide a better life for your family is driving people, not just from Mexico, but from other countries to ours. I agree with the sovereignity and security reasons trying to stop it. But, the millions who are already here and worked so hard to get a little piece of the U.S. dream deserve the chance to work and stay here, as long as they are not dangerous criminals, without the fear of being persecuted and antagonized by the modern KKK groups operating under different names like Minutemen, FAIR, etc. Their children know no other country than the U.S., pleadge allegiance to the flag every morning at school and, many of them are fighting for our country. The majority agrees that working, undoccumented workers, who have been here long enough, contibuting to our progress and development, and are not criminals should be given the chance to legalize their status and, eventually, become citizens after paying a fine, learn english, pass a background check, etc. This is the christian and humane way to solve this problem. Unfortunately, the view of a small group of racists, xenophobes, that have a very loud mouth, oppose it. The Republiklans have a lot of responsability for this important legislation to pass and will not be forgiven by the latino community who, now have an increased influence on the final results on pivotal states like Ohio, New Mexico, Nevada, Florida, even Texas.

  • Avatar
    Evelyn
    September 21, 2008 at 10:27 pm

    For the benefit of whoever wrote the whitewashed version of the U.S. wars with Mexico, for Michaela.
    Here is the truth!
    Kick off of REAL HISTORY Series: First up, The Texas Revolution and Mexican-American War
    I am a big history buff, and am one of those strange people who are able to read a history book and call it a pleasant experience. Most people read history books, nod their heads and agree inwardly that whatever the history book wrote is all 100% true. After all, it is a history book, it is non fiction and so ipso facto must be true.
    But not everybody is an discerning idiot like myself.
    And so I am kicking off a new series on the blog, called Real History. Because, when I read a history book, I have a 180 degree different attitude than most people – prove to me that what is written there is not bullshit.
    After all, isn’t believing that a history book is all true the same as believing that everything you see on TV “news” is true? Isn’t that similar to religious faith? Catch my drift?
    Example. When two countries make war on each other, inevitably history books of both will be written about that. Make an effort and try to read history books of both nations about those events – you will be surprised that, although they describe the same battles and events, probably using the same documents as sources, the tone of them will be very different. An apocryphal example, but a truism never-the-less.
    So – onward to XIX Century Texas.
    The typical American schoolbook will describe the Texas revolution thusly: Texas was a Mexican territory at first, American folks (who immigrated to Mexico from USA -imagine that!) lived there peacefully and all was hunky dory. Then the evil Mexican president Santa Ana got uppity and the brave Texans had to revolt and fight for freedom, liberty and the American way. Even back then there were a lot of Mexicans, and so at Alamo the brave Texas folk got wiped out. See the glowing description here, from http://www.lone-star.net. From the webpage: “For many Americans and most Texans, the battle has become a symbol of patriotic sacrifice. Traditional popular depictions, including novels, stage plays, and motion pictures, emphasize legendary aspects that often obscure the historical event.”
    The Texas Revolution and the Alamo was tailor made for Hollywood, and the entertainment industry duly obliged and pumped out tens of blockbuster war movies, where white Texas colonists fight heroically the Mexican army.
    After Alamo, the Texans did the impossible and actually won their independence, after defeating Santa Ana in a battle of San Jacinto. Basically the idiot Mexican president was captured, a knife was stuck to his throat, and he was gently asked told that if he wanted to live, he better grant Texas a nationhood separate from Mexico.
    Santa Ana, the president of Mexico, graciously and enthusiastically agreed to Texas independence.
    Shortly after, the white Texans, who as you remember immigrated to Mexico from USA, voted to rejoin USA. The evil Mexicans got uppity again and so the heroic American troops had to kill them. Here is the official version again.
    Texas joined the American Union after Yoo Ess Ey’s victory and everybody was happy.

    That is the official version. Now sit down, grab a hot tea, hot coffee, or better yet some alcoholic beverage and get ready for the no bullshit zone of history.
    Look up the wardata.net Mexican-American War Timeline. Take your time. I would gently ask you to pay attention to the word slaves as you read the timeline.
    See something interesting? That’s right, in the official US History version the slave issue is almost non existent.
    What follows is the unofficial (and true) history of the Texas Reolution and the Mexican-American War.
    Let’s start in the beginning then. Mexico was a colony of Spain, and fought a War of Independence to become a nation. One of the first issues it dealt with oddly enough was American immigration into Mexico. A American business man, named Moses Austin, swindled a deal with the then Spanish (as in Spain, the colonial country) authorities and got their permission to bring 300 American immigrants to Mexico. This Moses fellow led a very interesting life, as he pursued the ancient American dream of making big $$$ for himself. He moved from place to place, never letting anything stop him, even swore allegiance to the Spanish Crown (as an American citizen!) to establish his business in Spanish controlled parts of America.
    He failed several times in his business dealings, alas, and was bankrupt twice. First time the state of Virginia confiscated his businesses, and second time the War of 1812 again bankrupted him and again he had to sell his businesses at very bad prices.
    But he was a very persistent fella.
    Moses made his way to Texas (then a Spanish possession), and that’s when he swindled the deal to bring 300 white Americans into Texas. Alas, unluckily for Moses, he met some bandits on a road back into the US, and was so severely beaten that he died.
    And that would be the end of the story except this nutter asked his son to continue his dream of making money in Texas. Gotta hand it to Moses, he was one persistent son-of-a-bitch.
    His son, Austin, took Spanish citizenship, and moved into Texas with the assorted riff raff. Funnily enough, meanwhile the Mexicans revolted and won their independence. Imagine the surprise of a just installed Mexican governor as a bunch of white guys came in and said that they have a treaty with the (previous, now gone) Spanish government of Texas stating they have a right to settle there.
    The Mexican governor, one Senor Martinez, shrugged his shoulders and basically said “Whatever, fella, go fuck yourself and leave me alone.” The incredible true story is here, in the glorious Wikipedia
    And lo it was, that the Americans came to live in Texas. And Austin, son of Moses, was a smart fella, went back to USA and “offered land at 12.5 cents per acre, only 10% of what comparable acreage sold for in the United States. Settlers would pay no customs duties for seven years and would not be subject to taxation for ten years. In return, they would be expected to become Mexican citizens.”
    No taxes! Cheap land! And all you have to do is become a Mexican citizen!
    Deal.
    Joyful Americans poured into Mexico, establishing a pretty prosperous society. Some of them just happened to be slaves though, as many Americans came from the South of the country, and so brought their slaves with them.
    This was a problem – (please see Slavery in Texas Wiki article here).
    You see, “in 1823, Mexico forbade the sale or purchase of slaves and required that the children of slaves be freed when they reached fourteen”.
    In 1829 Mexico outlawed slavery altogether, making it illegal to own slaves in the country.
    This made the American immigrants in Texas justifiably angry, as these terrible Mexican anti slavery laws were extremely anti business and anti Texan. They interfered with Moses’, his son’s, and now the Texans’ dream of making big $$$.
    So, quoting Wikipedia: “To circumvent the law, many Anglo colonists converted their slaves into indentured servants for life. Others simply called their slaved indentured servants without legally changing their status.[16] Slaveholders wishing to enter Mexico would force their slaves to sign contracts claiming that the slaves owed money and would work to pay the debt. The low wages the slave would receive made repayment impossible, and the debt would be inherited, even though no slave would receive wages until age eighteen.”
    But the evil Mexicans again interfered with American god given right to make money, as “This tactic was outlawed by an 1832 state law which prohibited worker contracts from lasting more than ten years.”
    This could not be allowed.
    Big business was affected.
    This meant war.
    And so the “glorious” Texas Revolution for freedom (snicker), liberty (hahahaha) and American way (that for sure) happened.
    After the glorious fuck up that was The Alamo, Sam Houston and his army of Texan riff raff surprised Santa Ana’s Mexican Army. By surprise I mean that they moved in silently as close to the Mexican army tent camp and then charged, killing the surprised Mexicans, who were trained to fight in European style, make ranks and fire. None of that bullshit in the slaughter of San Jacinto, as the dumbass Mexicans were killed in their tents. Only nine Texans died, which make calling this a “battle” a slightly dubious proposition. Slaughter fits better. Or perhaps massacre.
    Santa Ana, then the Mexican president was duly captured by the Texans, who then gently posed him a question regarding Texas independence from Mexico.
    If you want to see how the question was posed, here is a scene of Santa Ana in Texan custody.
    Needless to say, Santa Ana enthusiastically agreed to all the demands put to him. And squeeeeeled like a pig.
    Incidentally, Sam Houston personifies the type of people who left the United States voluntarily and settled in Mexican Texas. The reason why he left the USA: he beat a man with a cane on a street in our nation’s capital. US Congress ordered his arrest, and he was found guilty in his trial even though he pleaded self defense. Being friends with a then US president James K. Polk, allowed a wink wink nod nod settlement of the case and Sammy boy was “reprimanded”. For almost killing a man in broad daylight in our nation’s capital. That man who was beat up happened to be a Congressman – hence the outrage of Congress and its involvement in the case.
    American history is just gloooooorious ain’t it?
    Sam was ordered to pay a $500 fee after the beaten up Congressman sued him for assault in a civil court (pansy! girly man!) but, Sam being Sam, he elected to move to Texas and beat up people there, I guess, and not to pay.
    The whole reason for the karate street fight of the Congressman and Sammy boy was the Indian Removal Act of 1830.
    You see, Yoo Ess of Ey had large pieces of its territory occupied by native American tribes, and so President Andy Jackson wrote a law in which the natives were to be “voluntarily” moved to less desirable laws. Like the Dakotas. If you ever been to Dakota, South or North, you know that it sucks and that there ain’t nothing there – but Wall Drug.
    And Wall Drug, even though it is the chief Dakota (both north and south) attraction, sucks donkey balls.
    Anyway, old Sam bid on a government contract to supply the Indians with … stuff…as they were ethnically cleansed from their lands and moved to Wall Drug country. If you find it strange, imagine Halliburton supplying American troops overseas, how lucrative it is to do so, and your admiration for ole Sam Houston will go up a notch. Here we have a precursor of Halliburton (no bid wink wink nod nod) contract.
    So we have Moses Austin – the swindler… Sam Houston, the criminal and swindler …Don’t forget the legendary Bowie, who is chiefly famous for his big knife…
    These people should not have been settling in Texas, they should have been in jail!
    Anyway, sorry for the break in the historical narrative…Where was I? Oh yeah, the glorious Texas revolution was won and Texas won its independence from Mexico.
    Everybody in Texas was happy, and much drinking, whoring and celebrating ensued.
    Except for the slaves, but fuck them. The war was fought for business reasons, and won. People like Sam Houston and the Moses folk could finally make their money in peace, as they whipped the “negroes” to work harder. In fact, see this article on slavery in Texas – after the “glorious” revolution,
    The Texas Revolutionqv assured slaveholders of the future of their institution. The Constitution of the Republic of Texasqv (1836) provided that slaves would remain the property of their owners, that the Texas Congress could not prohibit the immigration of slaveholders bringing their property, and that slaves could be imported from the United States (although not from Africa). Given those protections, slavery expanded rapidly during the period of the republic
    .
    “By 1845, when Texas joined the United States, the state was home to at least 30,000 bondsmen.”
    Which makes me realize that we here have hit on another topic.
    We skip skip a few years and move on to the Mexican-American War – grab another brew.
    Skip over the official history, laugh, drink up, and continue on…
    The American government approached the Mexican government multiple times, and politely inquired about Texas – because, you see, Americans wanted to buy it from Mexico. The public opinion in Mexico, of all classes in society, from the rich land owners to a beggar on the street, all agreed on one thing – that selling off Texas to the USA would tarnish national honor. In fact, many favored armed intervention to bring Texas back into Mexico. Imagine – sending an army to reclaim a seceding state. Boy, that is just crazy talk. Am sure glad that never happened in our American history…
    John Slidell, an American diplomat was sent by then American president Polk to talk things over, after a law passed in US Congress that Texas was to be annexed by America (Surprisingly, Mexico broke diplomatic relations with USA at that – what nerve!)
    By talk, I mean that he gently asked Mexico to sell Texas to the USA and allow Texas to be annexed by USA. And by gently, I mean he said that otherwise we will kill you and take it anyway.
    Shockingly, he was rebuffed by the uppity Mexicans, and Slidell came back to the US somewhat miffed at the non white folk out there in Mexico.
    By a curious coincidence, USArmy units just happened to be stationed on Mexican-American border, fully armed, ready to go.
    Just a coincidence… The following had nothing to do with American haste to annex Texas:
    But in the late 1830s, relations between Britain and the U.S. became strained. A financial panic in the U.S. had made the American market less important for Britain’s finished goods, and some Americans were also aiding revolutionaries in Quebec. For Britain, it seemed like a good time to find an alternative to American cotton.
    The Republic of Texas seemed like the answer—if Texas would free its slaves. Britain was so serious about forging a cotton alliance with Texas that at one point the British charge d’affaires in Texas, Charles Elliott, went to Sam Houston and offered a large British loan that would enable the Texas government to emancipate all the slaves and compensate their owners for the loss. Houston and the other leading men of Texas were willing to consider the idea.
    A free Texas under British domination was the worst nightmare of the American South. Such an alliance would wreck the Southern cotton trade and threaten the very existence of plantation culture. As the British became more intent on their courtship of Texas, it would be Southern planters who would bring the annexation debate back to the forefront of American politics.
    Curiously, the preceding explanation from the Texas State Library & Archives Commission makes it seem like the whole war was fought to keep American cotton price up and the slaves in chains. Of course, that cannot be correct, as the war was a good war, fought to protect American way of life, freedom, liberty etc etc…. right? Right?
    Moving on…
    When the evil Mexicans rejected the generous offer from the USA, those troops invaded to liberate Mexico from Mexicans.
    Polk stated to Congress that “Mexico had invaded our territory and shed American blood upon the American soil.” Which was curious as the Thornton Affair took place in Texas, which was an independent country at the time… or just annexed US territory…or actually Mexico. I am confused. Suffice it to say, some yahoos from Mexico got drunk and shot some equally drunk US soldiers. Hence the hutzpach Polk declaration of “American blood spilled on American soil” yada yada let’s kill some brown skins.
    And kill them we did. By gawd it was glorious. We wiped them out, and then we celebrated. From Wiki:
    U.S. soldiers’ memoirs describe cases of scalping innocent civilians, the rape and murder of women, the murder of children, the burning of homes, and the desecrating of Catholic religious objects and buildings. One officer’s diary records:
    “We reached Burrita about 5 pm, many of the Louisiana volunteers were there, a lawless drunken rabble. They had driven away the inhabitants, taken possession of their houses, and were emulating each other in making beasts of themselves.[15]
    John L. O’Sullivan, a vocal proponent of Manifest Destiny, later recollected:
    “The regulars regarded the volunteers with importance and contempt… [The volunteers] robbed Mexicans of their cattle and corn, stole their fences for firewood, got drunk, and killed several inoffensive inhabitants of the town in the streets.”
    Yeee haw!
    Things got so bad that many Catholic Irish soldiers, US citizens, considered the war unjust and about a land grab. Called the Saint Patrick’s Battalion, they deserted USArmy and joined the Mexican side – in great numbers. They fought bravely for the Mexican Army, and the more badly the war went for Mexico the more bravely they fought.
    They were then hanged by the USArmy troops when caught, at the end of the war.
    So, moving on with the narrative, the better armed, better led US troops won several victories, the war was won and Texas and several other territories were stolen err taken over by better management.
    And everybody in the land rejoiced… Well, perhaps not the slaves, who continued to be lashed, raped, beaten and worked to death, until the people who did the “glorious” Texas revolution tried the same thing, for the same reason (business and profit, the American way, against the evil government regulation – damn Washington bureaucrats sticking their noses where they don’t belong!) only on a MUCH larger scale…and with a different country…
    Of course, you know what I am talking about right? Hint: 1861-1865.
    http://americangoy.blogspot.com/2008/01/kick-off-of-real-history-series-first.html

  • Avatar
    Evelyn
    September 22, 2008 at 1:21 am

    Michaela said
    Truth is that Mexico has ALWAYS been a basket case.
    E
    WRONG! Before the Europeans came:
    1491
    By Charles C. Mann
    New Revelations Of The Americas Before Columbus
    A groundbreaking study that radically alters our understanding of the Americas before the arrival of the Europeans in 1492.
    Traditionally, Americans learned in school that the ancestors of the people who inhabited the Western Hemisphere at the time of Columbus’s landing had crossed the Bering Strait twelve thousand years ago; existed mainly in small, nomadic bands; and lived so lightly on the land that the Americas was, for all practical purposes, still a vast wilderness. But as Charles C. Mann now makes clear, archaeologists and anthropologists have spent the last thirty years proving these and many other long-held assumptions wrong.
    In a book that startles and persuades, Mann reveals how a new generation of researchers equipped with novel scientific techniques came to previously unheard-of conclusions. Among them:
    In 1491 there were probably more people living in the Americas than in Europe.
    Certain cities–such as Tenochtitlán, the Aztec capital–were far greater in population than any contemporary European city.
    Furthermore, Tenochtitlán, unlike any capital in Europe at that time, had running water, beautiful botanical gardens, and immaculately clean streets.
    The earliest cities in the Western Hemisphere were thriving before the Egyptians built the great pyramids.
    Pre-Columbian Indians in Mexico developed corn by a breeding process so sophisticated that the journal Science recently described it as “man’s first, and perhaps the greatest, feat of genetic engineering.”
    Amazonian Indians learned how to farm the rain forest without destroying it–a process scientists are studying today in the hope of regaining this lost knowledge.
    Native Americans transformed their land so completely that Europeans arrived in a hemisphere already massively “landscaped” by human beings
    http://www.bookbrowse.com/reviews/index.cfm?book_number=1649
    ~~~
    From “American Indian Contributions to the World: 15,000 Years of Inventions and Innovations”
    These are some of the contributions and accomplishments of the Mexicas, before Cortez invaded Mexico.
    This book is sold here:
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0816053677/102-5197609-5898545?v=glance&n=283155
    Creators of pyramid tradition that extended from Mississippi River to Wisconsin, and all the way to the East Coast.
    This pyramid tradition was independent of Egypt. The heart of this civilization was in what is now called Mexico and “Central America”.
    ( Google “Cahokia” for more information)
    Creators of the world’s most accurate calendar still in use around the world today.
    Creators of a base-20 mathematics system with positional notation (predating Europeans) First people in the world to use zero.
    Creators of the the world’s largest city. Teotihuacan, Tenochtitlan, and Cholula.
    First Nation in the world to impliment mandatory education system (Tenochtitlan).
    (see “Daily Life of the Aztecs” by Jacques Soustelle) Creators of books, and many libraries.
    Independently developed 12 writing systems ( Mayan system was the pinnacle). (see “Mexico: From the Olmecs to the Aztecs” by Michael D Coe)
    Accomplished astronomers measuring and predicting the movements of the sun, moon, planets, and stars. Other Nations followed the Mexica astronomers after 1592.
    Creators of the world’s two largest pyramids: the Pyramid of Danta (Mayan) and the Pyramid of Cholula.
    Biogenetically engineered domesticated corn plant into its modern variant giving the world one of the most nutritious foods. (read “1491” by Charles Mann)
    Creators of the world’s first team sport (the ball game)
    Architecture which has inspired renowned architects such as Frank Lloyd Wright
    First public latrine system in world. Bath houses for daily bathing.
    First people to perform surgery and invent scalpel. Invention of antiseptics.

  • Avatar
    Liquidmicro
    September 22, 2008 at 1:56 pm

    Your time line is too far back, it doesn’t even answer Michaela’s statement. Mexico!! not pre-columbian, not from 12000 years ago, but from the time Mexico became an independent nation. You have completely avoided the statement and the correct times in question.
    As for your Texas Blog story, again to many actual facts left out to even begin to be credible, shows its bias from the very first sentence.

  • Avatar
    Evelyn
    September 22, 2008 at 7:51 pm

    Michaela said:
    She is not on America’s side. Evelyn is so far left she’s just about off of the map.
    E
    YOUR OPINION of what you seem to think you know is the only thing here “so far left she’s just about off of the map,” and, out in the cold!
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Her entire argument for this illegal invasion is that the big, bad, imperialist, Capitalist U.S. has “expoited and oppressed”
    E
    It is not only my argument, I didnt just make it up. I learned about it by educating myself like every other educated American.
    You can find links to hundreds of articles just like the one below explaining what in YOUR OPINION (having not included proof) is a lie, which counts only to those of your ilk.
    THE NEW WORLD DISORDER
    Report: ‘Free trade’
    enslaves poor nations
    Globalization benefits wealthy exporters
    at expense of farmers, workers, says Oxfam
    WASHINGTON – So-called “free trade” agreements are not free at all, victimizing the poor while benefiting the wealthy, says a new report by Oxfam International, the coalition fighting poverty, suffering and social injustice around the world.
    “In an increasingly globalized world, these agreements seek to benefit rich-country exporters and firms at the expense of poor farmers and workers, with grave implications for the environment and development,” the report said.
    Her report said NAFTA has brought 1.3 million job losses to Mexico in 10 years.
    http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=54965
    ~~~
    Undocumented Immigrants: The New World Order’s Civil Disobedience
    Foreign policy by the US government has built countries such as Germany and Japan after World War II while at the same time destroyed other countries such as Cuba, Mexico, Philippines, and Indonesia since the “Cold War”.
    http://nonviolentmigration.wordpress.com/2007/09/20/undocumented-immigrants-the-new-world-orders-civil-disobediance
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Mexicans for hundreds of years and it’s ALL OUR FAULT that they are a craphole!
    E
    Those are your words. I would never show ignorance by calling Mexico a craphole!
    It is the U.S. gov. who decides who will be president of Mexico and those who are the leaders of Mexico and Americans who blame immigrants from Mexico for everything who are a craphole!
    Mexico’s enormous petroleum reserves rank it among the top ten countries in the world. Mexico is a major exporter of crude oil and remains one of the top producers and exporters of silver, a mineral resource that has been important since colonial times.
    Mexico’s economy is also of major importance to the United States, not only because of formal links through economic agreements, such as the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA), but also because Mexico is one of the largest trading partners of the United States. In turn, Mexico’s largest trading partner is the United States.
    http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761576758/mexico.html
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Therefore, we OWE them to allow their people to crash in here at will and pay for their educations, social services, and allow them to take our jobs and pretty much do what they want. WE OWE MEXICO AND MEXICANS!
    E
    Again your rant, filled with lies! Mexicans dont crash in here! They are America, whether you like it or not! They work to pay for their education and they don’t receive social service! Go spit on the Americans who hire the Mexicans! It is not their fault American employers would rather hire Mexicans who work hard instead of lazy Americans!
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    It was in 1848, it was in 1948 (long BEFORE NAFTA!) and it is NOW! Corruption is institutionalized in Mexico and permeates EVERY aspect of their society!! It has since its inception.
    E
    Oh goodie we get to discuss corruption, a subject the U.S. companies going bankrupt this week wrote the book on ! GLASS HOUSES!
    What is culturally OK in Mexico, may be seen as immoral and corrupt by an individual from another country.
    Today corruption, bribery and tipping occur at all levels of Mexican society and at many different degrees. For one reason or another it has become part of daily life. Most of it involves small sums of money, and is thought of as tipping and not as a bribe.
    In fact, to eliminate corruption in Mexico overnight is unrealistic and would probably result in chaos.
    Which are totally unethical, somewhat unethical, and no big deal? Which of these events occurs in your country?
    The garbage collectors come by every 2 weeks, rings the doorbell and ask for money for a soft drink, US $1 or $2.
    While waiting in a long line, someone comes up to you and asks if you would like to avoid the line and be attended right away. It will cost US $ 5 to US $ 10, and save you 2 hours.
    Your application for a permit/license has been in the government office for several weeks, and no one seems to be able to tell you what is wrong. The secretary asks if you would like to buy a raffle ticket for some organization. After buying the ticket the application suddenly appears.
    You visit a local political leader and take him to dinner and a theater event to discuss your project.
    At holiday time, you send gifts to politicians, suppliers and business associates.
    Your daughter copies exam answers from another student at school.
    The police stop you for a traffic violation (which may or may not have occurred). They suggest that for US $ 20 or $ 50 you can make it disappear, and you’ll be on your way in 5 minutes.
    You need government agency approvals for your business project. In order to make sure everything is done correctly, you hire an official in the department as a consultant.
    You require a zoning change on a piece of land, you invite a government official to participate as an investor in the project, or perhaps give him some shares.
    ~~~
    Now lets talk about
    corruption in the U.S., the kind that hurts middle class Americans!
    Corruption in a U.S. Attorney’s Office
    By Scott Horton
    http://harpers.org/archive/2008/02/hbc-90002353
    ~~~
    Corruption Watchdog Downgrades U.S.
    Scandals Hurt America’s Standing; Iraq Ranks Next-to-Worst
    Congressional scandals have damaged America’s standing on a global list that ranks freedom from corruption.
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/07/AR2006110701253.html
    ~~~
    An Investigative Newsletter Uncovering Corruption Within The Customs Service
    Former U.S. Customs Official Turned Whistleblower John Carman
    http://www.customscorruption.com/
    Google corruption in the U.S. you will find hundreds like these. Next
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    The wealthy and powerful of Mexico REFUSE to assume responsibility for their poor and uneducated, mostly indigenous population-
    E
    Very true, dont forget to remind everyone they are kept in power by the U.S.government, and include proof!
    http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2006/07/341919.shtml
    http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2006/07/342179.shtml
    Also dont forget why there is so much crime in Mexico, read about it here!
    Cartels to U.S. Keep buying drugs so we can keep fighting
    http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/ss/fromcomments/87859.php
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    –unlike the U.S. which has made great efforts to improve the situations of the Native Americans who are native to the U.S.
    E
    Is this suppose to be a joke! Poor taste sorryazz!
    A people in peril – Native Americans face unemployment and poverty
    STANDING ROCK, N.D.–A little more than 130 years ago, proud Sioux warriors fought the U.S. Army in the northern Great Plains–the vast flat sea of grass that once stretched across the north-central United States and into Canada.
    Unemployment on the Standing Rock Reservation is now at 75 percent, compared with 1.9 percent for North Dakota as a whole. On the Pine Ridge Reservation in South Dakota, the unemployment rate is at a startling 85 percent.
    http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EPF/is_n20_v96/ai_19199273
    ~~~
    Native Americans Face Poverty, Violence
    by Lisa Schmitt
    “I remember getting off the bus in middle school, and I’d be all black and blue. Some mornings I’d be bleeding, some mornings I’d be crying just from the beating I took. Then, I’d have to do that all over again in the afternoon,” Robert Shimek said.
    Robert “Undercloud” Shimek, special projects coordinator for the Indigenous Environmental Network, spoke about “Economic Justice for Native America” Tuesday morning as as part of the 2004 Kessel Peace Institute Pathways to Peace Conference.
    Shimek spoke about the racial tension between some of the residents of Bemidji, Minn., and the neighboring reservations. As a child growing up on a reservation near Bemidji, he had to ride the bus 28 miles everyday to school and back. Beatings on the bus by non-Native American kids provided him with fresh bruises daily. This went on for several years, he said.
    ~~~
    On Pine Ridge, a String of Broken Promises
    Politicians’ Talk Means Little on Troubled S.D. Reservation
    By Evelyn Nieves
    The Pine Ridge Reservation is besieged by problems decades in the making and beyond its ability to fix.
    More Lakotas who had left are returning to the Plains, preferring to live among their own people rather than in relative comfort on the outside. But failings of the federal government — from mismanaging Indian money held in trust to shortchanging programs it is legally bound to fund — continually undermine efforts here at self-help.
    Things are not much better on some other reservations. The Navajos in the Southwest, the Crow tribe in Montana and the Comanches in Oklahoma are also very poor, while some other tribes — even without casinos — have seen their living standards rise in recent decades. But Native American poverty rarely makes the national political agenda, except during campaign season.
    This year is no exception. Sen. John F. Kerry (D-Mass.) visited Gallup, N.M., promising Navajos and Hopis that as president he would honor treaties and Native American sovereignty. Earlier, Health and Human Services Secretary Tommy G. Thompson (R) visited the Navajo reservation and promised to do a better job of combating diabetes and other diseases ravaging the tribe.
    But skepticism of campaign pledges runs deep in Indian country, given the government’s history of broken promises. The federal government has acknowledged that it has grossly mishandled money it began collecting in the late 1880s, when it leased reservation land to oil, mining and timber interests and held the proceeds in trust for Indians.
    The government owes Native Americans billions, but a class-action lawsuit filed eight years ago on behalf of nearly 500,000 Indians is still unresolved.
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A49822-2004Oct20.html
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    They instead encourage their poor to migrate North, then laugh all the way to the bank at the stupid gringos who are footing the bill. Those are the cold, hard facts that Evelyn does not want to acknowledge.
    E
    Proof of YOUR OPINIONS would be nice, sorryazz if not they remain YOUR OPINION!
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    The facts are that MEXICO when it was a colony of SPAIN “stole” the land which is now the Southwest from the tribes indigenous to THIS part of the continent (U.S. tribes). The Spanish then established Catholic missions, and granted land to ranchers. The Southwest was very sparsely populated at the time with Spanish ranchers, Catholic missions, and Native American tribes. It was just about ignored by Mexico City and, in fact, the Mexicans invited Americans to settle in TX partly as a buffer between Mexico and the hostile Native American tribes. The Mexicans were afraid of them. They were NOT “one people.” The U.S. tribes chased the Mexicans out of their territories.
    There is so much WRONG with Evelyn’s Marxist propaganda. She talks about “whitewashing” history. Her history is Marxist revisionist history taught in Marxist Chicano studies classes. It’s a BIG, BIG problem. She can’t get around the fact that the U.S. is now a sovereign nation with internationally recognized borders, regardless of anything that happened in the past. So she just goes round and round trying to find a way to justify the invasion of her precious Mexicans/Latinos by invoking past historical events.
    These socialists are attempting to apply 17th and 18th century ethos to 21st century sensibilities for the purpose of crippling us from defending ourselves with “white guilt.” The Americans of that time did not do anything different than any other group did back in the day
    E
    Tell the person who wrote this for you now he is going to learn the truth. He or she can call it whatever they want, marxist, chicano studies, Big purple light orbs, pink elephants, or ##$%^^%&^%$##% bull. I dont care!
    It is not my fault he or she was not properly educated! I guess your friend forgot about this shameful document
    John L. O’Sullivan on Manifest Destiny and the fact that slavery being outlawed in Mexico were the reasons for the war.
    A true version of that war will be posted separately.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Europeans repelled wave after wave of invaders into Europe. The thing is that the whites had much more advanced weaponry than the “indigenous” (and they aren’t “indigenous” either because THEY TOO migrated from Mongolia via the Bering Straits). History shows that the society which possessed the most advanced weaponry usually emerged as the victors. The Native Americans fought for their land and their culture; they were defeated just as many peoples were defeated all throughout the history of mankind. Somehow, though, it is only WHITE AMERICANS who are made to feel guilty for their victory and building this nation into one to which people from all over the world seek to immigrate.
    Yes, it was a tragedy for the Native Americans just as it was a tragedy for the Spanish who were defeated by the Moors and the Moors who were in turn defeated by the Spanish 800 years later just as it was a tragedy for the Romans who were defeated by the Huns who then plunged Western civilization into the Dark Ages
    E
    Your rant is impressive! I dont care if the moors, huns, and romans jumped off a cliff so I wont address what they did or didnt do. This is America, not Europe.
    Why should we accept and justify wars because the Europeans do? Wars and invasions are wrong no matter who participates.
    You insinuate the Native Americans should not be considered indigenous to America. Obviously you dont know the meaning of indigenous.
    Indigenous peoples
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    The term indigenous peoples or autochthonous peoples can be used to describe any ethnic group who inhabit a geographic region with which they have the earliest historical connection, alongside migrants which have flooded the region and which are greater in number. [1] However, several widely-accepted formulations, which define the term “Indigenous peoples” in stricter terms, have been put forward by prominent and internationally-recognized organizations, such as the United Nations, the International Labour Organization and the World Bank. Indigenous peoples in this article is used in such a narrower sense.
    before its subsequent colonization or annexation; or
    alongside other cultural groups during the formation of a nation-state; or
    independently or largely isolated from the influence of the claimed governance by a nation-state, have maintained at least in part their distinct linguistic, cultural and social / organizational characteristics, and in doing so remain differentiated in some degree from the surrounding populations and dominant culture of the nation-state.
    peoples who are self-identified as indigenous, and/or those recognised as such by other groups.
    You should have taken the time to look up meaning of indigenous, before making a fool of yourself. Again!
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    To people like her, whites are always the oppressors while non-whites are always the victims/oppressed. Then anything the “oppressed” do to oppose their “oppressors” is justified as fighting for “justice and equality” and against “racism” even if they are blatant racists and hostile ethnics themselves. Isn’t that a neat trick?
    E
    Ask whoever wrote this article for you to point out which statements or articles I have posted on the oppression of people of color by Euro Americans they think are incorrect or misleading, or is it their opinion that I should just shut up because telling the truth about these shameful acts is embarrassing, unpatriotic, shouldent be brought up, should be kept hidden, WHAT ???????

  • Avatar
    Evelyn
    September 22, 2008 at 9:42 pm

    Liquidmicro :
    Your time line is too far back, it doesn’t even answer Michaela’s statement. Mexico!! not pre-columbian, not from 12000 years ago, but from the time Mexico became an independent nation. You have completely avoided the statement and the correct times in question.
    E
    HA! HA! How in the world did you come up with 12,000 years ago.
    The Mexicas were in power when the Spanish arrived in Mexico 489 years ago.
    I chose that time because that is the last time Mexico has been ruled by it’s rightful owners. Mexicans.
    After that it was the Spanish in power and today it is still the Spanish people in Mexico who stayed after the revolution against Spain. The Spanish are still the rulers of Mexico propelled into power and kept there by the American gov..
    An Analysis of The Uto-Aztecan Family
    By John P. Schmal
    For five centuries, North Americans have been fascinated and intrigued by stories of the magnificent Aztec Empire. This extensive Mesoamerican Empire was in its ascendancy during the late Fifteenth and early Sixteenth Centuries. The Aztec Empire of 1519 was the most powerful Mesoamerican kingdom of all time. This multi-ethnic, multi-lingual realm stretched for more than 80,000 square miles through many parts of what are now central and southern Mexico. This enormous empire reached from the Pacific Ocean to the Gulf coast and from central Mexico to the present-day Republic of Guatemala. Fifteen million people, living in thirty-eight provinces and residing in 489 communities, paid tribute to the Emperor Moctezuma II.
    However, by the time that Hernán Cortés and his band of Spanish mercenaries arrived on the Gulf Coast of Veracruz in 1519, omens of impending doom had begun to haunt Emperor Moctezuma II and his advisors in their capital city, Tenochtitlan. With an incredible coalition of indigenous forces, Cortés and his lieutenants were able to bring about the fall of one of the greatest indigenous American empires in only two years.
    The Empire that the Aztecs amassed makes them unique among Amerindian peoples. But, in at least one respect, they are far from unique. The Aztecs and other Náhuatl-speaking indigenous peoples of Mexico all belong to the Uto-Aztecan Linguistic Group. Spoken in many regions of the western US and Mexico, the Uto-Aztecan languages include a wide range of languages, stretching from Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming all the way down to El Salvador in Central America. And the Aztecs represent only a small – but significant – part of this linguistic group.
    While the Aztecs of the Sixteenth Century lived in the south central part of the present-day Mexican Republic, a wide scattering of peoples who presently live in the United States could probably be described as “distant cousins” to the Aztecs. If you belong to the Shoshone, Ute, Paiute, or Gabrielino Indians, you may very well share common roots with the famous Aztecs of central Mexico.
    How is it that we can conclude that these relationships exist? Studies in historical linguistics have analyzed the Uto-Aztecan tongues – and the Náhuatl language in particular – have determined that Náhuatl was actually not native to central Mexico. Instead, it was carried south from lands that are believed to have been in the northwestern region of the present-day Mexican Republic and – before that – the United States. Most of us have already heard the story of Aztlán and the Aztec journey from that mythical homeland to central Mexico.
    Legend states that the Aztec and other Náhuatl-speaking tribal groups originally came to the Valley of Mexico from a region in the northwest, popularly known as Atzlan-Chicomoztoc. The name Aztec, in fact, is said to have been derived from this ancestral homeland, Aztlan (The Place of Herons). According to legend, the land of Atzlan was said to have been a marshy island situated in the middle of a lake.
    http://www.mexconnect.com/mex_/travel/jpschmal/jpsaztecs.html
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    As for your Texas Blog story, again to many actual facts left out to even begin to be credible, shows its bias from the very first sentence.
    E
    I am sure many actual facts were left out. There isnt enough room to print every fact of that war, it would turn into a book! Why dont you offer the facts you think were important that were left out? I thought the two facts left out of the other rendition of this war were ‘Manifest Destiny’ and the fact that slavery was not allowed in Mexico. Those were the real reasons for the wars.

  • Avatar
    Liquidmicro
    September 23, 2008 at 9:25 am

    Evelyn:
    HA! HA! How in the world did you come up with 12,000 years ago.
    The Mexicas were in power when the Spanish arrived in Mexico 489 years ago.
    I chose that time because that is the last time Mexico has been ruled by it’s rightful owners. Mexicans.
    After that it was the Spanish in power and today it is still the Spanish people in Mexico who stayed after the revolution against Spain. The Spanish are still the rulers of Mexico propelled into power and kept there by the American gov..
    —-
    I came up with the times of pre-columbian back to 12000 years ago simply to make the point of your time line being to far back. As for the Mexica peoples ruling prior to Spanish conquer, they only ruled in the area that is described in your post, what is now central to southern Mexico.
    What then of northern Mexico, land that Spain claimed and when overthrown the now country of Mexico claimed, the land that was sold to the USA? What of the northern states of now Mexico that were taken and claimed by Mexico up to the northern Mexican border of today? Who should then get that land, should it become a separate country for the indigenous which were living there since they were not Mexica?
    Yes, the Spanish are still in power there, nobody has denied that.

  • Avatar
    Liquidmicro
    September 23, 2008 at 7:53 pm

    Evelyn:
    Why dont you offer the facts you think were important that were left out?
    There’s something about the Constitution of 1824 that was no longer being recognized by General Antonio López de Santa Anna Pérez de Lebrón who decided to abolish the Constitution of 1824 and proclaimed a new anti-federalist constitution in its place, the Siete Leyes of 1835.
    Between 1829 and 1832, a series of Mexican presidents were killed in a series of coups. Santa Anna had a hand in each of these events. The Mexican Republic became heavily divided between two factions known as Conservatives, who were for a centralized monarchical government, and Liberals, who were for a democratic federal government. In the presidential elections of 1833, Santa Anna ran as a liberal and won. Soon after, Santa Anna retired to his hacienda, allowing Vice President Valentín Gómez Farías to run the country. The government initiated drastic liberal reforms, angering the Conservatives. Returning from his hacienda, Santa Anna renounced the government’s policies and overthrew the presidency, forcing Gomez Farías and many of his supporters to flee Mexico for the United States. Santa Anna declared that Mexico was not ready for democracy, became an openly Conservative centralist, and appointed himself dictator. The War of Mexican Independence started after Napoleon invaded Spain in 1808, now Santa Anna fancied himself, the Napoleon of Mexico.
    At the same time Texas declared independence, other Mexican states also decided to secede from Mexico and form their own republics. The state of Yucatán formed the Republic of Yucatán, which was recognized by Great Britain, and the states of Coahuila, Nuevo León, and Tamaulipas joined together to form the Republic of the Rio Grande. Several other states also went into open rebellion, including San Luis Potosí, Querétaro, Durango, Guanajuato, Michoacán, Jalisco and Zacatecas. All were upset with Santa Anna abolishing the 1824 Constitution, disbanding Congress, changing the structure of government from a federal structure to a centralized one, and the expulsion of the Spaniards. Texas, however, was the only territory to be successful in detaching itself from Mexico.
    Your blog link starts where it is convenient to portray his ideal of the time and fails to show what even lead up to the actual Mexican-American War and the recession of other Mexican states from Mexico.
    Dictator Santa Ana, sounds good doesn’t it. A Mexican Hero with a power complex. But to you, its all the American Immigrants in Texas who had the problems. When in fact many states in Mexico where trying to and wanting to succeed from Mexico under the rule of Santa Ana, true dictator.
    As for a link for my TRUTHFUL FACTS, I used Wiki, same as your blogs link, only I researched much better then either you or he did. Look under Texas Revolution, Siete Leyes, and the Mexican Constitutions of 1824 and 1835.

  • Avatar
    Michaela
    September 23, 2008 at 11:51 pm

    “”another potential controversy – an anonymously sourced report in the National Enquirer alleging Palin had an affair with an associate of her husband.””
    Who gives a rat’s behind about this? Honestly, get a grip. The only thing I am concerned about is getting the truth about the Messiah Obama out. Why does he continually deny his associations with Ayers, Farakkahn and Wright? How could he possibly still consider as a friend a man who has bombed three facilities in our country and does not regret it one bit?
    McCain plans to call out the undercover anarchist terrorist, Osama HUSSEIN Obama in the debate Friday. Can’t wait for the truth to finally be exposed!

  • Avatar
    Michalea
    September 24, 2008 at 12:23 am

    E
    Again your rant, filled with lies! Mexicans dont crash in here! They are America, whether you like it or not! They work to pay for their education and they don’t receive social service!
    I apologize, no they don’t crash in here, they colonize here. They are America? How can Mexicans be Americans? I’m an American, am I also a Mexican?

  • Avatar
    Evelyn
    September 24, 2008 at 1:21 am

    Your time line is off. The Texas revolution began in 1835.
    You are talking about something that happen after the Mexican revolution in 1824 (Spain was ousted)when Mexico was trying to regroup and implement some kind of government for all of Mexico in what used to be Nueva Espania (New Spain)
    The U.S. had the same trouble after the civil war. It is common for countries to suffer after war in that fashion.
    What you consider your truthful facts is full of holes.
    This from Wikipedia
    The Texas Revolution
    or Texas War of Independence was fought from October 2, 1835 to April 21, 1836 between Mexico and the Texas (Tejas) portion of the Mexican state of Coahuila y Tejas.
    Texas Revolution
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Mexican independence and Texas settlement
    By 1829, the political faction in control in Mexico City saw the American constituency falling to the opposition.
    To slow immigration, slavery was officially outlawed in Mexico.[9] On April 6, 1830, Mexican president Anastasio Bustamante ordered Texas to comply with the emancipation proclamation or face military intervention.[10] To circumvent the law, many Anglo colonists converted their slaves into indentured servants for life. Others simply called their slaves indentured servants without legally changing their status.[11]
    By 1836, there were approximately 5,000 slaves in Texas.[12]
    President Anastasio Bustamante implemented several measures in 1830 to make immigration less desirable for Anglo-Americans. These measures followed the 1827 General Law of Expulsion whereby all foreign born people were exiled from Mexico.
    Revolution in Texas
    Throughout 1835, as a few tried to incite discontent, Texians informally debated the issues. Incidents between locals and the Mexican revenue forts at Anahuac and Velasco caused minor confrontations between Texian militia and Mexican troops. In late June, a second Anahuac Disturbance ejected Mexican troops.[15] After the expulsion of troops from Anahuac, an enraged Santa Anna ordered more troops into Texas and began preparations for the subjugation of Texas. The Texians as a whole were relatively loyal to a constitutional Mexico into August, despite their disgust over what had happened to Austin, the horrific events in Zacatecas, the call to disarm militias, the order to expel all illegal immigrants, and the dissolution of the Constitution of 1824.
    In August, the continued increasing presence of Mexican troops, their unrelenting demand for individual radical Texian leaders to be delivered for military trial, and major legislative land scandals began to erode the Texians’ support for the Peace party and attachment to Mexico, and to build support for the War Party and independence.
    In the DeWitt Colony, a centralista Mexican soldier bludgeoned Texian settler Jesse McCoy with a musket in an altercation. At Gonzalez, Mexican military authorities demanded the recall of a small cannon from local militia.[16][17] On September 20, General Cos landed at Copano[18] with an advance force of about 300 soldiers bound for Goliad, San Antonio and San Felipe de Austin.
    Austin was released in July, having never been formally charged with sedition, and was in Texas by August. Austin saw little choice but revolution. A consultation was scheduled for October to discuss possible formal plans to revolt, and Austin sanctioned it.
    These are the reasons sited for Texas Revolution (1835)
    Racism
    To overlook racism as a cause of the Texas Revolution is simply naive – but it was only one of many causes, not the only cause.
    Cultural Differences
    Anglos Refusel To Assimilate
    Anglos, who had agreed to learn and use the Spanish language as part of the admittance arrangement, groused about the use of Spanish for all official business in Texas once they had settled in. Shortly they began pressing for an exception for Anglos Texans whereby the “official language” could be dumped in favor of English.
    Governmental Differences
    The reaction in many sections of Mexico, including Texas, was military resistance to the creation of what many citizens saw as an all-powerful government in the hands of a tyrannical Santa Anna. In Texas, war was originally waged in an attempt to restore the Constitution of 1824 and federalism. Only later would it become a war of independence.
    Slavery
    When Anglo settlers were originally admitted to Mexican Texas, they were permitted to bring their black slaves from the Deep South with them. Indeed, had Mexican Texas been closed to slavery from the beginning, far fewer Southerners would have emigrated either because they could not bring their expensive property and manpower source with them or because of their political/racial views.
    Over the years, Mexico took repeated steps to limit or abolish slavery in Texas. Each step prompted a vociferous reaction from Anglos followed by a Mexican retreat in which the threatening change was repealed. Given the amount of capital many Anglos had invested in black slaves, Mexico’s mercurial actions with respect to slavery were at the very least threatening. There were those by 1836 who felt an independent Republic of Texas in which slavery was firmly and for all time recognized and respected was preferable to Mexico with an uncertain future for slavery. Two and one half decades later Texans still felt so strongly about black slavery and attached to it for both economic and social reasons that they would secede from the United States and wage a civil war rather than see the institution imperiled.
    The Physical Isolation of Texas
    The Texas Revolution was also the product of the physical isolation of Texas from both the American and Mexican governments. The situation in Texas, in which Anglo colonists became increasingly estranged from their host nation with the passage of time, developed in part because Mexico City was so far away. Even without its post-revolutionary struggles and inner focus, Mexico (like Spain before it) would have had tremendous difficulty trying to station enough troops and officials so far from Mexico City to control the situation. Similarly, the United States (had it had the desire to do so) would have found in equally impossible to control Anglo-Americans who had moved to Texas or Southerners who were preparing to move. Anglo-Texans got used to doing whatever they wanted in part because neither government could effectively control the isolated region.

  • Avatar
    Liquidmicro
    September 24, 2008 at 10:34 am

    I see you are still stuck at the time of the revolution, what I showed was what led to the revolution. I still don’t understand why it is you leave out some of the best information.
    “Austin eventually got the law repealed after three years of working with the Mexican government, but in the meantime military measures were enacted to enforce this law, which triggered an uprising in Anahuac, Texas. This was the first of what would be called the Anahuac Disturbances.”
    Texian disillusionment
    “Texians were becoming increasingly disillusioned with the Mexican government. Many of the Mexican soldiers garrisoned in Texas were convicted criminals who were given the choice of prison or serving in the army in Texas. Many Texians were also unhappy with the location of their state capital, which moved periodically between Saltillo and Monclova, both of which were in southern Coahuila, some 500 miles (800 km) away; they wanted Texas to be a separate state from Coahuila (but not independent from Mexico) and to have its own capital. They believed a closer location for the capital would help to stem corruption and facilitate other matters of government. Some American immigrants and Mexican citizens were accustomed to the rights they had in the U.S. that they did not have in Mexico. For example, Mexico did not protect Freedom of Religion, instead requiring colonists to pledge their acceptance of Roman Catholicism; Mexican Law required a “tithe” paid to the Catholic Church. Cotton was in high demand throughout Europe and most settlers wanted to raise cotton for big profits. But Mexico demanded that the settlers produce corn, grain, and beef and dictated which crops each settler would plant and harvest. Unlike in the states of the Southern United States where slavery was legal, the status of slaves in Mexico was ambiguous. Although Mexico had officially outlawed slavery, the government was widely tolerant of the holding of slaves, but not their sale. Slave traders were thus unhappy with the limitations imposed upon them. Although these many issues caused friction, they were not to incite the settlers to revolt as a whole.”
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Evelyn says:
    These are the reasons sited for Texas Revolution (1835)
    ——
    And your Governmental Differences says exactly what I stated in my previous post.
    Here is your unprovided link: http://www2.austin.cc.tx.us/lpatrick/his1693/causes.html
    I especially enjoy the Racism paragraph which states: One of the factors that complicated and soured the relations between Mexican citizens and the Anglo settlers they allowed to emigrate to Texas from the United States was racial prejudice. Both sides of the relationship felt racially superior to the other. When the Mexican government took action that angered Anglos or Anglo Texans got into conflict with an official of that government, American colonists were likely to respond with such repulsive terms as “greaser” or “bean eater”. When Anglos resisted orders or decisions, Mexicans were just as likely to use the term “gringo”.
    Where the words “greaser” or “bean eater” or even “gringo” terms used back then(1830’s)??
    All your Professor has done is expand on what I stated in my previous posts, as to what lead up to the conflict.
    The problem was with your blog link blaming everything on the American Settlers in Texas wanting slavery (What follows is the unofficial (and true) history of the Texas Revolution and the Mexican-American War.), when in fact that was only one small indifference as shown by your professors link and my wiki links. Your blogs version of facts and time lines are a bit off as well, but that’s not the point, the point is he fails to admit or even show anything other than the bad American idealism of greed, and nothing about the imperialist dictatorship Santa Ana was forcing upon all of Mexico at the time, all the other sections/states within Mexico also attempting to succeed from Mexico for the same reasons as Texas, the nullifying of the Constitution of 1824 and the loss of freedom for all the people of Mexico. But then again, you show visions of Socialism and would probably agree with Santa Ana, “Mexican Law required a “tithe” paid to the Catholic Church. But Mexico demanded that the settlers produce corn, grain, and beef and dictated which crops each would plant and harvest.”

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    Liquidmicro
    September 24, 2008 at 1:14 pm

    Evelyn says:
    “Your time line is off. The Texas revolution began in 1835.
    You are talking about something that happen after the Mexican revolution in 1824 (Spain was ousted)when Mexico was trying to regroup and implement some kind of government for all of Mexico in what used to be Nueva Espania (New Spain).”
    —-
    Obviously you either didn’t read what I posted or you failed to comprehend what I posted. Was not the discussion about your blog story and the facts it left out? I simply showed that Santa Ana was nothing more than a mere dictator and his changing of the Constitution of 1824 with that of the Constitution of 1835 is what caused most of the turmoil of the time, it even caused other Mexican states to succeed from Mexico (1835-1836). Please show where my “time line” is off with his time line since he is going back as far as 1820 in bringing up Austin.
    As for the annexation of Texas and the Mexican American War part of his version (1845 – 1848), I haven’t got there yet. But I would be happy to continue if you choose.
    I like how my TRUTHFUL FACTS are full of holes, especially when it is from the same article you use as reference. Only I haven’t left out Santa Ana and his tyrannical dictatorship of 1835 on, like your Blog link did. Did you actually look up his wardata.net time line? How he came up with all the assumptions he did from that link is impressive. Even the wiki Texas Revolution time line: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Texas_Revolution is a much better and accurate description of happenings.

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    Evelyn
    September 24, 2008 at 9:34 pm

    Michalea :
    E
    Again your rant, filled with lies! Mexicans dont crash in here! They are America, whether you like it or not! They work to pay for their education and they don’t receive social service!
    I apologize, no they don’t crash in here, they colonize here. They are America? How can Mexicans be Americans? I’m an American, am I also a Mexican?
    Mexicans are indigenous to this American Continent! That is why they are America.
    They are a part of the makeup of America. They are also true Americans. Anyone who is indigenous to this Continent is true American.
    You are an American citizen or a U.S. citizen. You are not indigenous to this Continent. You are not America, unless your ancestors are of this Continent, Michaela. Are they? Are you ashamed of your heritage?
    I was told you claim to be German, but were really Hispanic.

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    Evelyn
    September 26, 2008 at 12:24 am

    After reading the Spanish version that is as whitewashed as the English version you provide in reverse.
    I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. I believe the reason for the Texas revolution is because of the 5 reasons sited, not the one you say, as the timeline is still off.

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    Liquidmicro
    September 26, 2008 at 5:14 pm

    I like you better like this, a response showing insight. However, I think you still didn’t understand or comprehend my posts, as I have shown all the reasons as to why Texas ended in dissolution from Mexico. They were all placed in a few paragraphs vs. being separated out as your link of “These are the reasons sited for Texas Revolution (1835)”. If you look at the wiki link of the time line and compare it to my postings, you will find they are in order and correctly dated.
    Please don’t stop responding like you have here: “After reading the Spanish version that is as whitewashed as the English version you provide in reverse.
    I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. I believe the reason for the Texas revolution is because of the 5 reasons sited, not the one you say, as the time line is still off.”
    It actually makes for a decent discussion.

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    Evelyn
    September 29, 2008 at 9:57 pm

    I dont care what you think of me. I am not trying to win a popularity contest. I am always looking for truth and I dont care who is offended by it. I am not a person who has sympathy for liars.
    I will expose them without a second thought. Especially when the lies hurt innocent people. I will keep responding with truth.

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    Liquidmicro
    September 30, 2008 at 9:40 am

    Rational discussion is impossible then by you Evelyn, by your own statements. Besides I thought you quit and don’t respond to me, isn’t that what you said in your other post? Yet here you are, still responding, even after I give you a compliment.
    Liars, you say, isn’t that right out of your Playbook? Calling others names and shouting them down without viewing their opinions and without listening to their argument. Oh, that’s right, only your version of truth is correct. Your still an IGNORANT BIGOT.
    All you are now is a waste of space on this blog with no credibility. I’ll keep harping you until this blog is closed, nullifying your remarks, and showing the other point of view, making you out to be the Ignorant Bigot you are.
    Have a nice day!!

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    Evelyn
    September 30, 2008 at 11:00 pm

    I didn’t call you a liar but since the shoe fit, I wont stop you from waring it. I was merely giving you an explanation.
    I cant trust you because when I have tried to proceed on this blog with a friendly adult attitude, you have stabbed me in the back.
    For a long time I ignored you, it was recently that I started responding to your posts. I also gave you a compliment once about your knolodge of botanics.
    So we are even.
    I heard about your abilities shutting down blogs. HA! HA! I dont think that will work here! LOL!

  • Avatar
    KonstantinMiller
    July 6, 2009 at 5:21 pm

    I have been looking looking around for this kind of information. Will you post some more in future? I’ll be grateful if you will.

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