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Latina Lista: News from the Latinx perspective > Palabra Final > Immigration > Immigration reform takes a backspace among some progressive bloggers

Immigration reform takes a backspace among some progressive bloggers

(Readers, who have noticed my byline on op-eds (opinion editorials) in some print publications around the country, have asked why they can’t find them on Latina Lista. Well, now they can. On the left-hand side of the page, there is a new “Supplement” that I’ve dubbed, what else, “Op-eds.” The following op-ed is from last week.)
LatinaLista — You don’t have to be a professional pollster to know that the topic of immigration reform has slid down the ladder of urgent issues facing today’s voters. Rising gas prices, an unsteady job market and the war in Iraq are just a few of the issues that have displaced this volatile subject.
In fact, a recent Rasmussen Reports poll shows that immigration ranks only above abortion in the top ten issues that worry voters the most.
Some who advocate for undocumented immigrants might see this fall in the polls as a good thing, since it gives those people who feel persecuted a respite from all the harsh rhetoric targeting them. Not to mention, it adds ammunition to the argument that most Americans don’t feel threatened by the presence of undocumented immigrants.
Yet, this low ranking in the polls is also troublesome because while it indicates that the average voter is faced with more dire problems, it also means that what is happening in regard to immigration enforcement and reform is on the backburner of getting noticed, and most importantly resolved.


This point was driven home to me in a recent e-mail I received from a woman. She had attended a panel discussion on immigration that I had been a part of in Austin, Texas at the national progressive blogger’s conference known as Netroots Nation.
Usually bloggers love these kinds of issues, like immigration, which are propelled by federal policy that don’t make sense outside the Beltway. When there was some internal discussion about which direction the panel should take, it seemed a no-brainer to provide our audience with the details of what is triggering today’s outcry against Washington’s immigration policy.
A large part of the protest entails how Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) enforces current immigration law. It’s not a pretty picture with surprise worksite raids, separation of families and the punitive detention of men, women and children at centers across the country.
This portion of the presentation fell to me to report and it is the part to which my e-mail-writer most objected and described as “depressing.”
According to her, she wanted a presentation that detailed how to win the public debate followed by a “lively discussion” between panelists and the audience on how that would be achieved.
Instead, she wrote, “I will now drop thinking about immigration for a while, in favor of issues that I’m less depressed about, and perhaps come back in a month or later when I can stand to think about it again.”
I’ll be the first to admit that the stories of ICE enforcement are not uplifting but I couldn’t help but think what a luxury it is for this woman to be able to turn the issue off because she had enough of it.
The countless communities from Postville, Iowa to Houston, Texas to Bedford, Massachusetts to every town across the nation with large immigrant communities aren’t that fortunate. They live with this issue daily and can only rely on people like the email-writer to force Congress to act before more communities are destroyed.
The email-writer was upset because the panel hadn’t provided her with enough hope that things will be OK. Well, I just received the results of a straw poll conducted at the Netroots Nation on issues that the more than 2,000 progressive bloggers thought should be of the highest priority for the next administration — only 1 percent said illegal immigration was worthy of being a priority issue.
It’s hard to provide hope when there’s so little left.

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Comment(45)

  • Frank
    August 7, 2008 at 8:51 pm

    “Immigrant communities”? Our government doesn’t consider illegal aliens to be “immigrants” in the true sense of the word and rightly so! The spin continues.

  • Publius
    August 7, 2008 at 10:41 pm

    In fact, a recent Rasmussen Reports poll shows that immigration ranks only above abortion in the top ten issues that worry voters the most.
    “Some who advocate for undocumented immigrants might see this fall in the polls as a good thing, since it gives those people who feel persecuted a respite from all the harsh rhetoric targeting them. Not to mention, it adds ammunition to the argument that most Americans don’t feel threatened by the presence of undocumented immigrants.”
    Wrong again, Marisa. Citizens see the reports of the raids in the papers and finally feel that the government is listening to them. They’re becoming more comfortable with the performance of ICE. If they felt the same way as you do about illegal immigrants, far more citizens would be marching in the streets in their support, but it isn’t happening. Just wait until the raids slack off, and you’ll see the public scream.

  • Evelyn
    August 8, 2008 at 10:41 am

    Frank :said
    “Immigrant communities”? Our government doesn’t consider illegal aliens to be “immigrants” in the true sense of the word and rightly so! The spin continues.
    ~~~~
    YES IT DOES!
    Redefining the word “immigrant” is an attempt to differentiate between those they hate and their own grandparents.
    I’ve encountered a new argument in my travels, both in the comments here on AlterNet and around the internet. It’s perhaps best captured by the motto of the “Illegal Invasion News” blog: “IT’S NOT ‘IMMIGRATION’ AND THEY’RE NOT ‘IMMIGRANTS.'” (This claim is often articulated in that ALL CAPS style so popular with small children and lunatics who are off their meds.)
    The word “immigrant” has nothing at all to do with legal status. It means, simply, to move from one place to another for the purpose of settling down. Papers, no papers — it’s all irrelevant to the act of migrating.
    The claim can be dispatched easily enough with a little elementary etymology. The word “migration” first appears in the English language in reference to humans in 1611, some 37 years before the modern nation state, with its discrete borders, came into existence. The Latin root of the verb “to immigrate,” immigrare, predates that by more than a thousand years. Human migration is a phenomenon that dates back to before homo sapiens even existed — pre-modern humans migrated wily-nilly. So, clearly, the word “immigrant” has nothing whatsoever to do with one’s paperwork being in order; its roots predate the existence of contemporary legal systems.
    An interesting question is why they bother making the argument at all? Surely, it’s not relevant to the larger issue.
    Or so it seems. But it is relevant, in that it is a response to a major problem for real immigration hardliners: the United States is, indisputably, a nation of immigrants and our heterogeneity, contra the howls of many a right-winger, is a big part of what makes America what it is. You can gorge on Bratwursts in Michigan, drink way too much vodka and mingle with decked-out Russian gliteratti in Brighton Beach, still read local Deutsche Zeitungen in small towns in Minnesota, eat Ethiopian food with your hands in L.A., sing weepy Irish ballads over your Guinness in dozens of Boston bars, wander the docks as the Vietnamese fishermen come in for a Texas evening and get the best roast pork in Little Havana. And thank god for all of that — I wouldn’t have it any other way.
    But consider how awkward that simple reality is for a nice Irish boy like Bill O’Reilly, or someone like Tom Tancredo, whose grandparents — all four of them — immigrated to the U.S. from Italy in the first decades of the 20th century. There are a lot of immigration restrictionists of European descent — people with names like O’Malley, Kowolski or Schmitt — who are incensed about the current generation of immigrants to America, and to avoid charges of hypocrisy — or simple cognitive dissonance — they have an almost obsessive need to distinguish between their forebearers — “good immigrants” every one — and these scoundrels coming here today.
    Usually, they’re content to hang onto the fact that their great-grandparents immigrated legally, but I guess some need to go a step further and deny that those who bypass the system are immigrants at all.
    Even the former distinction is weak. Consider the similarities between, say, the wave of European immigration that arrived in the 1880s and 1890s and those who have come over the past decade, and they dwarf the differences. Descendants of the huge waves of European immigration in the 19th and early 20th centuries make much of the fact that their great grandparents came here “legally,” but they rest their case on a technicality: the only reason they were legal was that there was no law in effect restricting European immigration until the 1920s. In fact, European immigrants didn’t even need to identify themselves to get in — the derogatory word for Italians, “WOP,” was an acronym stamped on entry documents that meant the person was arriving “With Out Papers.”
    read more..
    http://www.alternet.org/immigration/85551/?page=entire#comments

  • Evelyn
    August 8, 2008 at 10:52 am

    Posted by Publius
    Wrong again, Marisa. Citizens see the reports of the raids in the papers and finally feel that the government is listening to them.
    E
    Correction,
    you mean a small group of racist.
    ~~~
    They’re becoming more comfortable with the performance of ICE. If they felt the same way as you do about illegal immigrants, far more citizens would be marching in the streets in their support, but it isn’t happening.
    E
    I would be intrigued to see your spin on the FACT that the majority of Americans elected two presidential candidates that support CIR. Tell me how do you explain that. LOL!
    ~~~
    Just wait until the raids slack off, and you’ll see the public scream.
    E
    Yeah, the bigots will.

  • Republican Richard Grayson for Congress AZ-04
    August 8, 2008 at 1:00 pm

    For me, as a candidate for Congress in Arizona’s Fourth Congressional District Republican primary next month, comprehensive immigration reform with a path to citizenship for the undocumented is one of my top priorities.
    It is nauseating to read of the ICE raids that are leading to the detention and imprisonment of families whose only “crime” was trying to better their lives and working very hard, often under cruelly oppressive conditions.
    In the case of Postville’s meat-packing plant, for example, I am sickened that the exploited workers have been detained while the people who exploited them go free. As a member of the Jewish community, I am working to see that no meat processed with this cruelty and oppression to human beings can be certified as kosher.
    In Arizona, as you know, many in my party have demonized immigrants and in a broader sense, the entire Latino/a community. Frankly, I see no letup in interest — and venom — from the nativist hatemongers, and there is no letup in interest by many of us who support the cause of justice and human rights for immigrants.

  • Irma
    August 8, 2008 at 1:29 pm

    Immigration is basically a Latino or to be more specific Latin-American issue.
    Republicans dont care about it and neither do “liberal Democrats” or most African Americans. Women dont care about unless they are Latin-American.
    The only way to get the major parties to MAKE immigration a PRIORITY is for Latinos to unite and flex our muscles at the voting both. Collectively, we outnumber all other minority groups in the US. I wish we as group would WAKE up.

  • Frank
    August 8, 2008 at 11:09 pm

    Nice try but no cigar. Most of our grandparents came legally to this country. That makes them immigrants according to our government. Those who come illegally are called illegal aliens. Deal with it spinmaster!
    Hate has nothing to do with the illegal immigration issue. It is the racists such as yourself that try to make it so.

  • Evelyn
    August 8, 2008 at 11:12 pm

    Republican Richard Grayson for Congress AZ-04 :
    For me, as a candidate for Congress in Arizona’s Fourth Congressional District Republican primary next month, comprehensive immigration reform with a path to citizenship for the undocumented is one of my top priorities.
    You are a colorful character sir.
    http://republican-grayson.blogspot.com/2008/07/arizona-republican-congressional.html

  • Evelyn Chavez
    August 10, 2008 at 6:34 pm

    Frank :
    Nice try but no cigar. Most of our grandparents came legally to this country. That makes them immigrants according to our government. Those who come illegally are called illegal aliens. Deal with it spinmaster!
    E
    Nice try but no cigar!
    Well of course Our government is and was made up of European anchor babies who had to justify their continued presence on lands that were invaded by their ancestors. It is they who were spin-masters.
    The invasion of Iraq is proof about how our government lies and manipulates so certain people can become more rich.
    Our government isnt perfect and what they ‘say’ or ‘do’ isnt always right!
    You are the one that should accept that fact and learn from it, instead of focusing on the messenger and calling her an American hater or hater of whites
    while defending a government that doesent give a damn about you.
    Our government needs to be exposed for all the wrong it does and changed to work for us instead of a few rich people.
    If Iraq had a border with the U.S. The next wave of immigrants would be Iraqes. Even though no border exists between Iraq and the U.S. they are already coming, but that is another story.
    Fact is no matter what you our government or the man in the moon want to call you, you will always be the descendant of immigrants. You will never be a Native American, like the majority of Mexicans.
    ~~~
    Hate has nothing to do with the illegal immigration issue.
    E
    I could always pull some of your virulent racist remarks from that other forum. Dont keep trying to say it’s not you. We all know better even Saorise or whatever it’s name is.
    Monday, May 26, 2008
    Immigration debate wasn’t colorblind
    Ruben Navarrette
    SAN DIEGO — The winners write the history. And now that border restrictionists have won the battle to scuttle immigration reform, the history that many are desperate to write is that the debate was colorblind.
    Really. The restrictionists and those pundits who have taken up their cause claim that race and ethnicity aren’t even part of the discussion and that those who oppose giving illegal immigrants a shot at legal status would feel the same way if the immigrants were coming from Canada instead of Mexico. They say their concerns are limited to border security and the rule of law, and have nothing to do with nativism or xenophobia. And they reject any suggestion that the debate was hostile to Hispanics.
    This is the fable being spun by CNN’s Lou Dobbs, a commentator labeled by New York Times columnist David Leonhardt as “the heir to the nativist tradition that has long used fiction and conspiracy theories as a weapon against the Irish, the Italians, the Chinese, the Jews and, now, the Mexicans.” In recent days, Dobbs has argued that the Senate compromise died because Americans of all colors dispassionately concluded that it was bad for the country. Racism played no role, he insists.
    Most Hispanics feel differently. I’ve seen three surveys, including one by the Pew Hispanic Center, where majorities of Hispanics say that the immigration debate has led to an increase in anti-immigrant sentiment. And, as I travel the country speaking to Hispanic groups, one thing I hear is that “anti-immigrant” rapidly morphed into “anti-Hispanic” and specifically “anti-Mexican.”
    I get evidence of that every day in my e-mail. Just last week, after I defended the prosecution of two Border Patrol agents, a reader called me a “dirty Latino” who needs to get “back to Mexico.” Another writer called me an “anchor baby” — the term used by nativists to describe the children of illegal immigrants born in the United States. Never mind that I was born in the United States and my parents were born in the United States. What I see here is racism.
    That’s also the view of the National Council of La Raza, which recently wrapped up its annual conference in Miami Beach. Speakers included Democratic presidential candidates Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama. Clinton said the immigration debate has become “venomous.” Obama, quoting from a 1968 telegram that the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. sent to farm worker leader Cesar Chavez, said that Hispanics and African-Americans were “brothers in the fight for equality” and decried the “racism” that crept into the immigration debate.
    For some reason, Dobbs took those remarks personally. He responded by poking at Clinton and Obama on his show, insisting that they were insulting the American people.
    And he really went ballistic when NCLR Vice President Cecilia Munoz said that much of the immigration debate was driven by a “discomfort with Latinos” and the Senate had caved into “what was largely a wave of hate.”
    That prompted Dobbs to blast the NCLR as a “socio-ethnic centric group.”
    I’d quibble with Munoz. I don’t think it was just hate that drove the immigration debate, although according to the Southern Poverty Law Center, hate crimes against Latinos and immigrants are on the rise while hate groups use the immigration issue as a recruitment tool. Just last week, the SPLC filed a lawsuit against the Imperial Klans of America — an offshoot of the Ku Klux Klan — and five Klansmen, claiming that two members were recruiting for the group at a county fair in Kentucky when they beat up and kicked a 16-year-old Hispanic boy and called him a racial epithet. The boy, who suffered cracked ribs and other injuries, is a U.S. citizen of Panamanian descent.
    But this isn’t really about hate as much as it is fear and ignorance. And ironically, one of the things fueling it is people like Dobbs.
    “America has a long history of men like Lou Dobbs,” Morris Dees, co-founder of the SPLC, said during a recent conference call with journalists. “Men like Sen. Joseph McCarthy who prey on the public fears. Often, they’re xenophobic demagogues.”
    The people who buy into this demagoguery say the country is being colonized. That harkens back to what Benjamin Franklin said in the 1700s about German immigrants making up “a colony of aliens.”
    A lot of what Franklin said about the Germans was rank bigotry. The same goes for what other generations of Americans would later say about Italians, Irish, Jews and other immigrants — even if they came legally.
    What poison. Thank goodness we got that out of our system.
    ~~~
    It is the racists such as yourself that try to make it so.
    E
    Showing that white people or our government is capable of committing atrocities and making mistakes is not a show of racism because it is based on fact.
    On the other hand the hate you show and the lies you continue to believe are a perfect example of racism.

  • Frank
    August 11, 2008 at 8:42 am

    I am so god damned sick of you brining up the past that had nothing to do with those alive today! I am so sick of you implying that I have stated any lies about anyone! You are a sick twisted and hateful individual. I have told you over and over that my arguments against illegal immigration are strickly based on our laws and yet you continue to attribute other’s articles and other’s remarks to me! I have NEVER made any racist remarks about anyone. You are the hypocrite BECAUSE YOU HAVE! You have stated over and over your hatred for white people in general. What an effing hypocrite you are!

  • Evelyn Chavez
    August 11, 2008 at 1:33 pm

    Frank :
    I am so god damned sick of you brining up the past that had nothing to do with those alive today!
    E
    Well of course you are. The past blows your ‘hate of immigrants agenda’ to smithereens, because it shows you are the product of the very type people you dont want here.
    Does the word HYPOCRITE come to mind?
    ~~~
    I am so sick of you implying that I have stated any lies about anyone!
    E
    Open your eyes! Look around! It’s not just me implying. I just give you a harder time about it, and expose your rants more.
    ~~~
    You are a sick twisted and hateful individual.
    E
    Sick twisted and hateful individuals dont tell TRUTH!
    To you anyone that tells truth about Americas past or yours is considered an American hater or a sick twisted hateful individual. LOL!
    Sick twisted hateful individuals lie and are hypocrites, racist, or bigots.
    ~~~
    I have told you over and over that my arguments against illegal immigration are strickly based on our laws
    E
    Yeah right, the only law you are strictly for is immigration enforcement. You even ignore or want to change our Constitution when the law is beneficial to immigrants.
    The federal government has violated many laws. You love them.
    ICE has repeatedly violated rights concerning the treatment and tactics used toward Hispanic immigrants and Hispanics citizens and you applaud them.
    Joe Arpayaso has violated so many laws concerning the treatment of immigrants and paid more than 40 thousand dollars in lawsuits but you are a staunch supporter of his.
    You care no more for the ‘rule of law’ then the man in the moon. Again does the word Hypocrite come to mind.
    ~~~
    I have NEVER made any racist remarks about anyone. You are the hypocrite BECAUSE YOU HAVE!
    E
    Even you know that is a lie. Can so many of us be wrong? Do you think only you are right?
    ~~~
    You have stated over and over your hatred for white people in general. What an effing hypocrite you are!
    E
    Put your money where your mouth is. Dont just open it to spew more lies. SHOW WHERE I HAVE STATED I HATE WHITE PEOPLE IN GENERAL OR OTHERWISE!
    You have never shown proof of anything you say, well you are not getting away with this any longer. Show the proof or expect consequences!
    HYPOCRITE!

  • Alex
    August 11, 2008 at 6:43 pm

    Frank, as I said before, your postings expose you. You said that you do not like the idea of hispanics being the majority in our country. That is plain and simple xenophobia and racism. No matter how you want to paint it. I agree with you that the borders should be secure, employers should verify that the ones being employed are legally able to work, etc. But, we have to deal with the ones that are already here and have been for many years contributing, in very humiliating ways, to the progress of our nation. As long as they are not criminals, and working without proper papers is not a crime, they deserve to be given the right to work legally without being antagonized, persecuted and terorized by racist groups and individuals who dislike them for not having the same skin color as theirs. It is the right and christian way to proceed.

  • laura
    August 11, 2008 at 10:23 pm

    Marisa, you say: “I’ll be the first to admit that the stories of ICE enforcement are not uplifting but I couldn’t help but think what a luxury it is for this woman to be able to turn the issue off because she had enough of it.”
    How very and very sadly true!
    It always strikes me how little “white” people know about immigrants – how separate people’s lives are. This is not because they are bad people – it is because they don’t need to know what is going on, so they would rather not bother. Well-intentioned upper middle-class “white” friends of mine do not believe me when I say there is a crisis going on. It’s because it doesn’t touch their lives at all.
    And then there is the effect described in this poem by Pastor Martin Niemoeller for Nazi Germany, who was one of the persecuted Christians under that regime:
    “First they came for the Jews
    and I did not speak out
    because I was not a Jew.
    Then they came for the Communists
    and I did not speak out
    because I was not a Communist.
    Then they came for the trade unionists
    and I did not speak out
    because I was not a trade unionist.
    Then they came for me
    and there was no one left
    to speak out for me.”
    Returning to the issue of the parallel of our situation with Nazi Germany: I am struck by how rabbis and other Jewish religious leaders are in the forefront of the protests in Postville, Iowa. I think it is because they understand better than other “European-Americans” what is going on.

  • Michaela
    August 11, 2008 at 10:42 pm

    Evelyn and her calling everyone a racist, blah, blah, remind me of a phrase a friend of mine taught me one time. She told it to me in Spanish but in English it is:
    ” THE WAY YOU LIVE IS THE WAY YOU JUDGE”
    Think about it Evelyn.

  • laura
    August 11, 2008 at 11:35 pm

    And speaking of progressive bloggers- what happened to Obama’s answers to the immigration questionnaire?
    Are they so awful that you don’t want to make them public?
    I am starting to wonder- supposedly he answered a while back – yet I haven’t seen his answers anywhere.
    Maybe I will rethink the idea to canvass for him, and save my energy for what I truly care about.

  • Frank
    August 12, 2008 at 1:50 pm

    Alex,
    There isn’t a people ANYWHERE ON THIS EARTH who elect to become a minority in their own country! The Mexicans surely wouldn’t want to become a minority in their “Mestizo nation.” Especially thru illegal immigration. Give it a rest!
    And on that subject: if it is “racist and xenophobic” to want to remain the majority in your own country then is it not “racist and xenophobic” for Latinos to want to BECOME the majority in this nation as we have seen expressed so many times? Latinos like your are positively salivating at the prospects. If one is racist, then so is the other! Hypocrite!
    It is NOT racist and xenophobic to want to maintain one’s culture and heritage in their own country. Latinos already have 22 country in which their language and culture predominates. Nobody is flooding into their countries illegally; I’ll wager that if millions upon millions of Chinese or Arabs were illegally moving into Mexico changing the basic culture into an Asian or Arab one, the Mexican citizens would become “xenophobic” also.
    These illegals knew after 1986 what the score was. They knew that they were taking a chance and violating the law and that the consequences of that violation was deportation. They’ve been living on borrowed time here in the U.S.
    I’m so sick of the double standards of the people who think like you do. You know you wouldn’t give a RAT’S BEHIND about illegals if they weren’t ethnically like yourself. So, you can call us racists and xenophobic all they want. It just falls on deaf ears.
    If we do not enforce our laws now, it will only send the message that we have totally abandoned any attempt at enforcing our immigration laws or securing our borders. The current newly legalized batch of illegals will wave in the next group and 10 or 15 years from now. You and your ilk will be sitting here calling us all racists and xenophobes for not wanting to legalize the new batch of illegals. It will never end with you people. We know what your agenda is: to Hispanicize this nation and take it for your own using non-military means.

  • Irma
    August 12, 2008 at 4:02 pm

    Centuries ago, before the Europeans came and parked themselves on foreign land and then proceeded to kill off the native population, the natives of North and South
    America lived principally as a nomadic people. It is those who are not of
    Native American ancestry who are the the foreigners. No one INVITED the Europeans to come.

  • Alex
    August 12, 2008 at 4:44 pm

    You see Frank. Yoe expose yorself. You are a racist and xenophobe. My father is from Argentina, His country, an a recognized now shameful way exterminated most of the natives through massacres because they were considered savages and less than animals. Very similar to the way the U.S. exterminated most of the native indians in our soil. A lot of european immigrants came during the 19th century and lots of nazis, and jews, as well escape or look for refugee in Argentina and many countries in South America. They all blend in, they keep their traditions and still many immigrants from Bolivia, Peru, and other south american countries look for a better life there. As long as they are not criminals, the system allows them to stay and legallize their status. I’ve been told it is a long procedure, with lots of paperwork. But, people are welcoming and do not see is as a threat to their culture, or the fact that their skin might be different. There are always xenophobes, racists, like Frank, Eyes Of Texas everywhere that look down on them and antagonize them. But, in general, the society accepts them for what they are, human beings. Now, regarding the fact that immigration is not the main factor on hispanic population growth, but birth rate, are you going to propose a limit on children from families, whose skin is not like yours? Force abortion on them? What will the racist group you belong to going to do?

  • Frank
    August 12, 2008 at 8:35 pm

    Alex, how can I be a racist or a xenophobic when I am in full support of legal immigration?
    According to the CIA Factbook (an agency whose JOB it is to analyze countries and its people and culture), Argentina is 97% WHITE! LOL! Lots of diversity there, Alex! Yeah. There’s a real threat to their culture there from all of those “indigenous” peoples coming with blood in their eye over past historical injustices.
    Compare that with the U.S. in which fully one-third of the population is non-white. Race isn’t even so much the factor. The factor is allowing millions of people into our country who have a grudge against our society and our people. NO COUNTRY WOULD ALLOW THIS; it is simply suicidal. Please explain how allowing people in who are hostile to us or who will be used by those who are hostile to us benefits us or our progeny in any way. Please, I’m waiting with baited breath for an answer to that one: how does allowing millions of those hostile to the majority population or who will be USED BY THEM benefit us????
    I take it that you do not think that looking out after the best interests of your Latino ethnic group is racist. Well, I don’t think looking out after the best interests of MY ethnic group is racist either. We can ALL play the “identity politics game.”

  • Frank
    August 12, 2008 at 8:42 pm

    Irma, that is your clue “centuries ago.” None of us alive today invaded this country. We are not accountable for what our ancestors did or didn’t do. I know my ancestors didn’t invade anyone’s land. What about those Spaniards? You know the ancestors of the those with mixed native indian blood in them? Their ancestors did the same thing. Or are you discounting that part of their genetics and only counting the native indian part? It is all past history. Get over it or bitch to the U.S. government and not as Evelyn does bitch to all white people (except for those with Spanish blood of course) who weren’t even born back them. Your arguments are lame and we have been an established country for over 200 years now.

  • Evelyn
    August 13, 2008 at 2:26 am

    Michaela said:
    Evelyn and her calling everyone a racist, blah, blah, remind me of a phrase a friend of mine taught me one time. She told it to me in Spanish but in English it is:
    ” THE WAY YOU LIVE IS THE WAY YOU JUDGE”
    Think about it Evelyn.
    E
    Just when I thought you were different you came out with a big fat LIE blah blah! Show me where I “called everyone a racist.” Proof!
    Asi como vives, jusgas.
    ” THE WAY YOU LIVE IS THE WAY YOU JUDGE”
    Porque tienes verguenza decir que Eres Mexicana?
    Why are you ashamed to admit you are Mexican?
    Este dicho y el de arriba te quedan mas a ti que a mi.
    The following ‘saying’
    and the one above are better suited to you than me.
    El zorrillo nunca se huele la cola.
    A skunk never smells his tail.
    Piensalo bien Michaela. No debes tener verguenza de ser Mexicana. Tampoco debes mintir.
    Think about it Michaela. You shouldent be ashamed to be Mexican. You shouldent lie either.
    To JG
    This is why I like Chavez as a last name.
    Preservation of one own culture does not require contempt for other cultures”
    Cesar Chavez

  • Evelyn
    August 13, 2008 at 3:58 am

    Frank :
    Irma, that is your clue “centuries ago.” None of us alive today invaded this country.
    E
    But you are reaping the benefits and have been sence your ancestors got here. While the Native Americans were and are treated like shit because of people (racist) like you.
    White people share all the wealth while the Native Americans live in poverty.
    If white racists would have taken care of how they treated and still treat the indigenous people today then maybe they wouldent be soooo scared because in the future their children and grandchildren will be the minority. You know the saying. What goes around comes around.
    ~~~
    We are not accountable for what our ancestors did or didn’t do.
    E
    No, but you are accountable for the hate, lies and inciting violance against Hispanics today like your ancestors did long ago and wanting to treat Hispanics the way your ancestors treated their ancestors. (Exclusion, exploitation, incarceration, unequal treatment, subjects to unjust laws etc etc.)
    ~~~
    I know my ancestors didn’t invade anyone’s land. What about those Spaniards? You know the ancestors of the those with mixed native indian blood in them? Their ancestors did the same thing. Or are you discounting that part of their genetics and only counting the native indian part?
    E
    You mean the ruling elite of Mexico KEPT in power by the U.S. government. The people that you and I elect to represent us. Oh my that would be us. You and Me.
    Those people are also white they come from the same place our white ancestors did.
    They also raped and murdered the indigenous people in all of America just like our white ancestors did.
    They even raped black women and they are just as guilty of the same crimes.
    The fact that Black people and Native Americans in the U.S. Peru, Honduras, Mexico or anywhere in the Americas have white blood doesent make them any less Native American Or Black like you try to insinuate.
    ~~~
    It is all past history. Get over it. or bitch to the U.S. government and not as Evelyn does bitch to all white people
    E
    WE THE PEOPLE are the U.S. gov. The people in Washington represent us. WE elect them. When they mess up it is our fault for electing them.
    The one doing the BITCHING here is you and those of your ilk. Some of you are even calling for another war. Your and Saorise’s friend, USA today, and other racist are stupid enough to call for another civil war.
    You sit in this forum and others BITCHING day in and day out about Illegal Illegal Illegal and Law Law Law while the people you BITCH about support you with taxes they pay the U,S, gov. for your check every month.
    ~~~
    Your arguments are lame and we have been an established country for over 200 years now.
    E
    If the arguments are so lame, why do they disturb you so much?
    You would love it if no one reminded you that you are also the descendant of an immigrant! Hypocrite!

  • Evelyn
    August 13, 2008 at 5:30 am

    Rumor has it the author is being investigated by proper authorities. They have pulled the article from the site.
    I had a copy.
    http://www.borderfirereport.net/oliver-w.-hagley/there-will-be-blood.html
    “There Will Be Blood
    Oliver Hagley
    August 10, 2008 –
    Please understand that I do not advocate violence or shedding of blood n the United States, nor do I wish for that sort of disaster to strike our republic. Our history is that of a nation which operates in the accordance with the rule of law; we have always settled our domestic differences through the ballot box, rather than with bullets.
    For 232 years that approach has worked fairly well. I hope that it works for another 232 years.
    However, in recent years, elected officials have decided that once they have secured power, the need to listen to the will of the people is no longer urgent. This arrogant, nonchalant disregard for American citizens is hardly more obvious than when it comes to the issue of illegal aliens.
    Because elected officials from both major parties have refused to enforce US borders and immigration laws, perhaps as many as 40 million illiterate, non-English speaking peasants have invaded our land.
    This invasion wreaks havoc on homeland security, the economy, education, and American language and culture.
    The American people have repeatedly informed our leaders that we want an immediate end to and reversal of illegal immigration. We want the federal government to secure the borders and deport the illegal aliens from our midst, as soon as possible.
    Despite the wishes of we the people, both presidential candidates from the major parties favor amnesty for invading criminals.
    Amnesty would be a slap in the face to hundreds of millions of Americans citizens, and to the millions of foreigners who wait their turn in line for a chance at the American Dream.
    Amnesty says to the world that rule of law means nothing in America.
    Amnesty says to the world that there is no longer a sovereign state known as the United States.
    Amnesty would be the final step in destroying American language and culture and sending this once great nation down the path to third-world misery.
    Amnesty tells American voters to go to hell while welcoming illegal invaders warmly.
    With both major parties siding with illegal aliens and against American citizens, amnesty seems increasingly likely to become reality in early 2009.
    That will be a genuine tragedy, because millions of patriotic Americans simply will not lie down and die while America is methodically destroyed by politicians looking for cheap labor or cheap votes.
    America fought a great and tragic civil war to end slavery. The nation appears to be on the verge of another civil war, this time to free the American people from the bondage of illegal aliens.
    When amnesty becomes law, it is almost certain that there will be blood.

  • EYES OF TEXAS
    August 13, 2008 at 8:30 am

    OK, Alex, you pegged me. I am as racist as all of those that turn a blind eye to illegal immigration solely based on their ethnic similarity to those that are violating U.S. immigration laws. I, like Frank, have nothing against immigrants so long as they come here in accordance with the laws. How would you feel if suddenly there were millions of undocumented Chinese moving into your community, refusing to assimilate, protesting in the streets, making demands they are not entitled to, changing the look and feel of your area to suite their culture and wanting you to adapt to them instead of them adapting to you? Really be honest with yourself and think how that would feel. There is nothing superior about the Anglo-Saxon race, but we have been dominate in this country for a couple of hundred years and change does not come easily. We, as a nation, must control immigration for the sake of our resources, food supply and infrastructure. Uncontrolled immigration has caused the collapes of many civilizations through history and I do not want mine to go in such a way. Sure, you can call me racist or any other tag you want to place on me, but in the end what I am fighting for is nothing more than you would fight for if placed in the same situation.

  • Frank
    August 13, 2008 at 10:39 pm

    What does repeating benefits have to do with anything? Everyone born here reaps the benefits of this country. Can you possibly get any lamer in your blame game?
    If white racists would have taken care of how they treated and still treat the indigenous people today then maybe they wouldent be soooo scared because in the future their children and grandchildren will be the minority. You know the saying. What goes around comes around.
    Oh, but, Evelyn…why should we be afraid for our children and grandchildren?? Everyone knows that ONLY WHITES CAN BE RACIST! Therefore, when most of the evil white people are gone, our society will live in peace and harmony and any whites who happen to be left will have nothing to fear, right?
    Funny, for someone who is so “oppressed,” Evelyn and her mother and siblings seem to be quite successful.
    So, what you are really saying is that future generations of white children will be made to suffer for historical injustices that they had no part in perpetrating. Nice Evelyn. You’re a real class act. Yeah, let’s bring a few million more like you in here. Like I said, we might as well slit our own children’s throat as be down with that racist, hostile agenda. Everytime you utter such racist, hostile rantings, you just expose more of your vile putrid soul and harden my heart towards the illegals even more and their Hispanic citizen sympathizers (and that of others who are reading). So, keep spewing your hatred. You’re only shooting yourself and your precious illegals in the foot.
    The Native Americans were conquered by UNCONTROLLED IMMIGRATION by people with a foreign culture who DID NOT ASSIMILATE AND THEY WERE NOT THOSE OF US ALIVE TODAY!!! This has happened to various societies all throughout history. Like Eyes of Texas said, we do not want it to happen to us. There is NOTHING racist about preserving one’s society. JusT as you said, wanting to preserve your own culture does not mean you have contempt or hatred for another. Heed your own words, Evelyn, you hypocrite!

  • Frank
    August 13, 2008 at 10:48 pm

    Oh, and anoher thing the Native Indians in my area are doing just fine. They own casinos and are millionaires. There are indian casinos all over the country now. There are no more poor native indians in this country than there are poor blacks or whites.
    The average white American citizen is not responsible for their demise either. We don’t control their lives. If you have a beef as I have told you for the umpteenth times TAKE IT UP WITH OUR GOVERNMENT AND STOP HATING AND BLAMING YOUR AVERAGE WHITE AMERICAN. Get some counseling, you need it! Your grandmother turned you into a hate machine!

  • Frank
    August 14, 2008 at 9:51 am

    Here are some more facts for you to foam at the mouth about, Evelyn.
    You are really barking up the wrong tree when you talk about white “racists” oppressing Native Americans in this country! You just insist on living in the past. The rest of us are moving on, but those like you who were brainwashed from day one cannot open their eyes to see that we are living in the year 2008, and not 50 or 100 years ago! You still see the world through your grandmother’s eyes who saw the country the way it was 50 or 80 years ago.
    There have been many changes which have occurred in the past 50 or so years and Native Americans are no longer the oppressed peoples they were in the past. Many of them are doing better than the average white American. Good for them. But, those like you just cannot see things the way they are NOW. After all, if you did, you’d have to stop playing the “victim” and you would lose your trump card.
    On top of that, you have often spoken of your success, and that your mother was a linguist for heaven’s sake! My mother worked her fingers to the bone outside the house while raising several children nearlly single handidly. My father was a factory worker and my grandfather died working in a cement plant! Whose people were more oppressed? Give me an effin’ break!
    And the larger point is this: We have NO RESPONSIBILITY towards the Amerindians of Mexico/South America! We did not conquer them; we did not colonize their lands! The governments of those countries ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THEM!
    This is what you leftist/Marxist/Chicano nationalists do: you lump all white people into one category and apply collective blame for all of their troubles. They just lump the Spaniards and the English together and call it a day. No matter that we have a completely different history and system.
    We have made provisions for the indigenous peoples native to OUR part of the continent–the tribes who were present here and with whom our government had treaties. They are trying to make U.S. citizens responsible for tribes South of the border with which we have no history or dealings just because we are white! Hey–we all look alike, right? So, no matter that the Spanish/Portuguese conquest was at a completely different time period and involved a completely separate set of circumstances and tribes! We should be taking responsibility for the Spanish mess (while their elites laugh all the way to the bank, of course). Nice try, Evelyn. But, we’re not that brain dead.
    We’ll take responsibility for what is ours and you must demand your elites South of the border to take responsibility for THEIR citizens. Stop trying to rationalize how American citizens are responsible for those governments!

  • Evelyn
    August 14, 2008 at 11:35 am

    Those who say, “There are no more poor native indians in this country than there are poor blacks or whites.
    The average white American citizen is not responsible for their demise either. We don’t control their lives. If you have a beef as I have told you for the umpteenth times TAKE IT UP WITH OUR GOVERNMENT AND STOP HATING AND BLAMING YOUR AVERAGE WHITE AMERICAN. Get some counseling, you need it! Your grandmother turned you into a hate machine!”
    are living in LA LA land while spewing more and more lies.
    Due to ignorance, denial or ‘your guess is as good as mine’ they still havent figured out WE THE PEOPLE are the government.
    We really should require all racists take a citizenship test like new immigrants do.
    These people live in constant denial.
    When faced with TRUTH their only course of action is to smear and demonize anyone they can including children grandmothers or wildlife.
    How pathetic, how desperate can one become?
    It’s called RE-FOCUS. The racists perfected this technique and the Republicans use it often.
    First they spew with no proof. Then they re-focus.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~
    ” There are no more poor native indians in this country ”
    HA! HA! HA!
    Left Behind
    Change comes slowly to poverty-stricken Lakota country
    At first glance, the village of Pine Ridge, South Dakota doesn’t seem all that different from any other dusty little town on the seemingly never-ending prairies of the Great Plains.
    On a Friday night, local radio station KILI plays rap music before switching to a live broadcast of the weekend’s big high-school football showdown. Teen-agers wearing sports jerseys congregate at Pizza Hut and Taco John’s.
    Indeed, the initial disappointment likely to confront visitors who arrive here with romantic notions of life on an Indian reservation is the seeming ordinariness of the place.
    But spend some time exploring the back roads of the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation, or the back streets of Pine Ridge village, and the picture changes.
    Decrepit trailer homes, whose windows have all been broken, leaving jagged glass jutting out of the frames and curtains flapping in the wind, often turn out to be inhabited. The ubiquitous junk cars — no home here seems to be complete without one sitting in front of it — sometimes serve as dwellings, too. Packs of scruffy, collarless “rez dogs” run at large.
    On every block, it seems that at least one house, most of them trailers or government-provided manufactured houses, has a wheelchair ramp. It’s usually a sign that someone has lost a limb to diabetes, which affects half of all adults over 40 here, due to the poor dietary habits that accompany poverty.
    In reality, the Pine Ridge Reservation, home to the Oglala Sioux Tribe of the Lakota Nation and about the size of Delaware and Rhode Island combined, is neither ordinary nor romantic.
    A century and a half of mistreatment and neglect by the U.S. government has left the more than 30,000 residents of Pine Ridge, descendants of famous warriors such as Sitting Bull and Crazy Horse, living in what is, by most measures, a third world country.
    The statistics are mind-numbing: While the rest of America frets over a recession that has driven unemployment rates from 4 percent up to 6 percent, Pine Ridge’s unemployment rate is estimated to be between 60 and 80 percent — and it’s been that way for as long as anyone can remember. The closest the rest of the country has ever gotten was 25 percent unemployment, during the Great Depression.
    Shannon County, which encompasses roughly two-thirds of the reservation, is consistently ranked among the two or three poorest counties in America. Per-capita income in 1999 was just under $6,300, and more than half of all residents live below the federal poverty line.
    With the poverty come staggering rates of homelessness, alcoholism, disease, drug abuse, murders, suicide, infant mortality, teen-age pregnancy and school dropouts. Average life expectancy here is lower than in Bangladesh — 48 for men and 52 for women.
    Many homes here lack running water or heating. Some people don’t even have beds.
    “We come from a strong line of chiefs,” says Tom Poor Bear, a local community activist. “But we’ve turned into beggars.”
    Though everyone at Pine Ridge seems to have a different opinion about what, or who, is currently to blame for the conditions in which they live, there is little disagreement about the historical origins of their plight.
    Tom Poor Bear
    Emerson Elk, who sells his artwork and crafts at a roadside stand near the village of Wounded Knee, answers bluntly when asked what has caused the reservation’s problems: “The white man. He never should’ve come.”
    The Lakota lost most of their land and resources and saw their traditional culture nearly destroyed, due to encroachment by white settlers beginning in the last half of the 19th century.
    In 1868, the U.S. government signed a treaty at Fort Laramie, Wyo., promising the Lakota a 60-million acre reservation stretching from the Missouri River in the east to the Bighorn Mountains in the west, in an effort to end long-running hostilities between the Lakota and white settlers. But the Great Sioux Reservation would be diminished and fragmented by a series of treaty violations on the part of the U.S. government. Today, Pine Ridge is one of its nine remnants, scattered across South Dakota.
    Most notoriously, Congress in 1877 confiscated the Black Hills in western South Dakota, previously undisputed Lakota territory, three years after an expedition led by Gen. George Custer had found gold there.
    The gold discovery sparked further encroachment by white prospectors, leading to the last Indian wars, in which warriors led by Sitting Bull and Crazy Horse defeated Custer’s troops at the Battle of Little Bighorn. The Indian victory was short-lived; in the years that followed, reinforced federal troops forced the Lakota into submission.
    On Dec. 29, 1890, the 7th U.S. Cavalry attacked a group of Lakota encamped at Wounded Knee in what would become the last armed engagement of the Indian wars and one of the most infamous atrocities in American history. The troops massacred an estimated 150 to 300 men, women and children. Today, the cemetery on a hill at Wounded Knee is a top tourist destination at Pine Ridge.
    During many of the following decades, the U.S. government pursued policies aimed at assimilating Indians into white society, by outlawing certain religious ceremonies and sending Indians to schools where they were banned from speaking their native languages.
    Through treaties and other legal arrangements, the federal government agreed to help Indians with monetary aid, education, health care and other assistance, as compensation for taking their land. But the government has shirked its obligations by severely shortchanging Indian programs, according to a recent report by the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights.
    The underfunding of such programs “perpetuates a civil-rights crisis in Indian country,” the commission charged.
    “The white man. He never should’ve come.”

  • Evelyn
    August 14, 2008 at 11:41 am

    The Fears of White People
    September 08, 2005 By Robert Jensen
    Robert Jensen’s ZSpace Page
    Join ZSpace
    It may seem self-indulgent to talk about the fears of white people in a white-supremacist society. After all, what do white people really have to be afraid of in a world structured on white privilege? It may be self-indulgent, but it’s critical to understand because these fears are part of what keeps many white people from confronting ourselves and the system.
    The first, and perhaps most crucial, fear is that of facing the fact that some of what we white people have is unearned. It’s a truism that we don’t really make it on our own; we all have plenty of help to achieve whatever we achieve. That means that some of what we have is the product of the work of others, distributed unevenly across society, over which we may have little or no control individually. No matter how hard we work or how smart we are, we all know — when we are honest with ourselves — that we did not get where we are by merit alone. And many white people are afraid of that fact.
    A second fear is crasser: White people’s fear of losing what we have — literally the fear of losing things we own if at some point the economic, political, and social systems in which we live become more just and equitable. That fear is not completely irrational; if white privilege — along with the other kinds of privilege many of us have living in the middle class and above in an imperialist country that dominates much of the rest of the world — were to evaporate, the distribution of resources in the United States and in the world would change, and that would be a good thing. We would have less. That redistribution of wealth would be fairer and more just. But in a world in which people have become used to affluence and material comfort, that possibility can be scary.
    A third fear involves a slightly different scenario — a world in which non-white people might someday gain the kind of power over whites that whites have long monopolized. One hears this constantly in the conversation about immigration, the lingering fear that somehow “they” (meaning not just Mexican-Americans and Latinos more generally, but any non-white immigrants) are going to keep moving to this country and at some point become the majority demographically. Even though whites likely can maintain a disproportionate share of wealth, those numbers will eventually translate into political, economic, and cultural power. And then what? Many whites fear that the result won’t be a system that is more just, but a system in which white people become the minority and could be treated as whites have long treated non-whites. This is perhaps the deepest fear that lives in the heart of whiteness. It is not really a fear of non-white people. It’s a fear of the depravity that lives in our own hearts: Are non-white people capable of doing to us the barbaric things we have done to them?
    A final fear has probably always haunted white people but has become more powerful since the society has formally rejected overt racism: The fear of being seen, and seen-through, by non-white people. Virtually every white person I know, including white people fighting for racial justice and including myself, carries some level of racism in our minds and hearts and bodies. In our heads, we can pretend to eliminate it, but most of us know it is there. And because we are all supposed to be appropriately anti-racist, we carry that lingering racism with a new kind of fear: What if non-white people look at us and can see it? What if they can see through us? What if they can look past our anti-racist vocabulary and sense that we still don’t really know how to treat them as equals? What if they know about us what we don’t dare know about ourselves? What if they can see what we can’t even voice?
    I work in a large university with a stated commitment to racial justice. All of my faculty colleagues, even the most reactionary, have a stated commitment to racial justice. And yet the fear is palpable.
    It is a fear I have struggled with, and I remember the first time I ever articulated that fear in public. I was on a panel with several other professors at the University of Texas discussing race and politics in the O.J. Simpson case. Next to me was an African American professor. I was talking about media; he was talking about the culture’s treatment of the sexuality of black men. As we talked, I paid attention to what was happening in me as I sat next to him. I felt uneasy. I had no reason to be uncomfortable around him, but I wasn’t completely comfortable. During the question-and-answer period — I don’t remember what question sparked my comment — I turned to him and said something like, “It’s important to talk about what really goes on between black and white people in this country. For instance, why am I feeling afraid of you? I know I have no reason to be afraid, but I am. Why is that?”
    My reaction wasn’t a crude physical fear, not some remnant of being taught that black men are dangerous (though I have had such reactions to black men on the street in certain circumstances). Instead, I think it was that fear of being seen through by non-white people, especially when we are talking about race. In that particular moment, for a white academic on an O.J. panel, my fear was of being exposed as a fraud or some kind of closet racist. Even if I thought I knew what I was talking about and was being appropriately anti-racist in my analysis, I was afraid that some lingering trace of racism would show through, and that my black colleague would identify it for all in the room to see. After I publicly recognized the fear, I think I started to let go of some of it. Like anything, it’s a struggle. I can see ways in which I have made progress. I can see that in many situations I speak more freely and honestly as I let go of the fear. I make mistakes, but as I become less terrified of making mistakes I find that I can trust my instincts more and be more open to critique when my instincts are wrong.
    Jensen is a professor of journalism at the University of Texas at Austin. He can be reached at rjensen@uts.cc.utexas.edu .
    http://www.zmag.org/znet/viewArticle/5440

  • Evelyn
    August 14, 2008 at 2:22 pm

    Frank :said
    What does repeating benefits have to do with anything? Everyone born here reaps the benefits of this country. Can you possibly get any lamer in your blame game?
    E
    NO, the question here should be, can YOU, possible get more arrogant bold and stupid whth your ignorant ideology to propel your racist agenda of hate against a group of people that are the wrong skin color to you?
    ~~~
    If white racists would have taken care of how they treated and still treat the indigenous people today then maybe they wouldent be soooo scared because in the future their children and grandchildren will be the minority. You know the saying. What goes around comes around.
    Oh, but, Evelyn…why should we be afraid for our children and grandchildren?? Everyone knows that ONLY WHITES CAN BE RACIST! Therefore, when most of the evil white people are gone, our society will live in peace and harmony and any whites who happen to be left will have nothing to fear, right?
    E
    Read THE FEARS OF WHITE PEOPLE, then you’ll know.
    ~~~~~
    Funny, for someone who is so “oppressed,” Evelyn and her mother and siblings seem to be quite successful.
    E
    Doesn’t it just kill you, why just imagine the effin audacity of indians to get an education and better themselves. Now we white racist wont be able to feel superior to the Mexicans an make ourselves feel good anymore cause these damn uppity indians got smart an wont let us forget that is racist and that we are Hypocrites because we come from immigrant ancestors. LMAO!
    ~~~~
    So, what you are really saying is that future generations of white children will be made to suffer for historical injustices that they had no part in perpetrating.
    E
    If you didnt think the same thing you wouldent be so worried about the changing demographics of the United States.
    You wouldent be pissed off at me and my family for having an education and doing so well.
    You wouldent be petrified at the sight of a Mexican.
    You wouldent resort to degrading yourself by spewing lies to demonize them.
    You wouldent sit at the border in 100% plus heat playing wannabe soldier, making a fool out of yourself.
    You wouldent be at every home depot making a spectacle and laughing stock of yourself.
    You wouldent be peeing in your pants due to fear and bitching every time a brown baby is born. HA!
    ~~~~~
    Nice Evelyn.
    You’re a real class act.
    E
    I Know I have worked very hard to become what I am today. I am truly blessed. I am glad I dont think like you.
    I am not bitter and filled with hate like you.
    I think everyone that works hard should be blessed too, regardless of the color of their skin.
    ~~~~~
    Yeah, let’s bring a few million more like you in here. Like I said, we might as well slit our own children’s throat as be down with that racist, hostile agenda. Everytime you utter such racist, hostile rantings, you just expose more of your vile putrid soul and harden my heart towards the illegals even more and their Hispanic citizen sympathizers (and that of others who are reading). So, keep spewing your hatred. You’re only shooting yourself and your precious illegals in the foot.
    E
    What heart? You have made it a point to show us over and over you dont have one.
    ONCE AGAIN YOU HAVE BEEN EXPOSED RACIST!!
    You think I give a ratz azz how you or other racists feel.
    I am only here to expose you every time you shoot yourself and your cause in the foot.
    ~~~
    The Native Americans were conquered by
    UNCONTROLLED IMMIGRATION by people with a foreign culture who DID NOT ASSIMILATE AND THEY WERE NOT THOSE OF US ALIVE TODAY!!!
    E
    Native Americans were not conquered. There was no war. They were invaded. Genocide killed most of the Native Americans.
    ~~~~
    This has happened to various societies all throughout history.
    E
    Yes I believe all nations inhabited by people of color have suffered at the hands of white Europeans.
    ~~~
    Like Eyes of Texas said, we do not want it to happen to us. There is NOTHING racist about preserving one’s society.
    E
    No one is trying to get rid of white people.
    No one is trying to change the culture of Americans.
    All credable studies show that today’s immigrants are assimalating faster then those from Europe did.
    Racism is what we are against. That is what we will rid ourselves of.
    Racist and their children and grandchildren who practice racism will suffer the consequences of their actions.
    Cesar Chavez said, “Preservation of one own culture does not require contempt for other cultures”
    ~~~~
    JusT as you said, wanting to preserve your own culture does not mean you have contempt or hatred for another. Heed your own words, Evelyn, you hypocrite!
    E
    Spewing lies, spreading hate, excluding groups of people because of the color of their skin, smearing people who defend civil and human rights is a sign of contempt or hatred for others.
    Making referance to historical facts are not.
    Your efforts to cloud the two and ignore the difference are exposed.
    Thanks again for showing the world that racism is the driving force behind the exclusion and oppression of immigrants, Native Americans, Mexicans, and Hispanics.
    Just when I think I’ve seen everything.
    The depth at which you defend racism always amazes me!

  • Frank
    August 15, 2008 at 8:41 am

    Again you lie like a rug about me, Evelyn. I do not have a hate agenda against any ethnic group and I don’t care what skin color anyone is. Why do you lie so??????
    My position is merely an objection to illegal immigration FROM ANYWHERE! Stop the lies you are only making yourself look foolish. Anyone can read my posts in here and can see that you are a liar. Do you like that image of yourself in here? You are a sick, nasty lying individual!

  • Frank
    August 15, 2008 at 9:00 am

    Too bad Evelyn, that you are so blind that you can’t see who the real racist is here and that is
    YOU!!!!
    I have never put down any race of people. I am merely for immigration enforcement. More effing lies by you!!!! You however attack the white race at every turn!!!! How can you be so utterly stupid that you can’t see your own racism and then turn around and project it on me and others in here who are merely respect our immigration laws???? Go to hell, you are a disgusting sick, lying piece of crap!

  • Evelyn
    August 16, 2008 at 12:25 am

    Frank :said
    Again you lie like a rug about me, Evelyn. I do not have a hate agenda against any ethnic group and I don’t care what skin color anyone is. Why do you lie so??????
    My position is merely an objection to illegal immigration FROM ANYWHERE! Stop the lies you are only making yourself look foolish. Anyone can read my posts in here and can see that you are a liar. Do you like that image of yourself in here? You are a sick, nasty lying individual!
    Posted by Frank | 15 de Agosto 2008 a las 08:41 AM
    Posted on 15 de Agosto 2008 08:41
    Frank :
    Too bad Evelyn, that you are so blind that you can’t see who the real racist is here and that is
    YOU!!!!
    I have never put down any race of people. I am merely for immigration enforcement. More effing lies by you!!!! You however attack the white race at every turn!!!! How can you be so utterly stupid that you can’t see your own racism and then turn around and project it on me and others in here who are merely respect our immigration laws???? Go to hell, you are a disgusting sick, lying piece of crap!
    E
    Again, what we have here are two excellent examples of what I have spoken about in other posts.
    A racist left with no viable means of defence for all the lies he claims as fact, desperate enough to smear a defender of our constution and the rights it affords every person within our borders regardless of color of skin or ethnicity, who has used facts to expose lies he believes which angers
    him.
    Wake up people of the world this is the type racist ramrodding racist lies down your throat to get you to believe him and join his lost cause.
    I call it lost cause because not one of the racist groups or persons in the worlds history has had much success.
    After their agenda is exposed they self destruct (look at minutemen now) are incarcerated or flee to other countries to live a life in isolation always looking over their shoulder trying to keep one step ahead of the law.
    These nasty names aimed at me come from a person mad at me for telling truth and exposing his agenda.
    Most of his anger probably comes from the realization that what I say is based on fact and he has no proof of what he believes because it is based on someone else’s lie.
    It is hard to accept when we are proven wrong. A mature intelligent adult would gracefully accept his mistake, admit he is wrong and correct his way of thinking.
    A racist will not do that because he is blinded by fear and hatred.
    Thank You again for another splendid display of rabid racism that is pushing the anti-immigrant, Mexican Hispanic cause into the ground.
    You should see the
    e-mail response against your agenda that I recieve when I expose your comments.
    A perfect display of what you call “shooting yourself and your cause in the foot” HA! HA! HA! LMAO!

  • Evelyn
    August 16, 2008 at 12:30 am

    Does anyone know how a person can lie like a rug? Now I will admit I can see how a person can lay like a rug but lie…… naaa!

  • Michaela
    August 16, 2008 at 2:09 am

    I have to agree Frank. I have never experienced a person so full of hate for white people. And the audacity to call us the racists?
    The way you live is the way you judge Evelyn. Think about it.

  • Frank
    August 16, 2008 at 4:50 pm

    What a sick, twisted, lying racist YOU are, Evelyn!
    Our constitution does not nullify our immigration laws or our right to enforce them. Are you really this stupid?

  • Evelyn
    August 16, 2008 at 6:01 pm

    Michaela :
    I have to agree Frank. I have never experienced a person so full of hate for white people. And the audacity to call us the racists?
    The way you live is the way you judge Evelyn. Think about it.
    E
    Again you are trying to be slick and hijack all white people and act like racists are just normal white people and that I just hate all white people.
    Let me say this again. I dont hate white people.
    It is racism that I and many other Americans of all colors refuse to accept or participate in. GOT IT!
    Racism doesent pay and neither does lying. Sooner or later you get caught.
    Like I said Saorise “El Zorillo Nunca Se Huele La Cola”
    Which means, “a skunk never smells his own tail”
    You think about that!

  • Frank
    August 17, 2008 at 7:36 pm

    Here is the problem, Evelyn. You deem ANYONE who doesn’t hold your political views and especially on illegal immigration, a racist! So that would include most whites in this country and most other ethcities in this country, excluding the ethnocentric Hispanics.
    That is not what racism is! Even if they choose to believe the negative stats out there on illegal immigration opposed to the so-called positive ones, THAT DOESN’T MAKE THEM A RACIST! The bottom line of their arugment is the rule of law so SCREW THE STATS ONE WAY OR THE OTHER, OK! You can’t argue with the rule of law though, so you fall back to the argument that people who choose to believe the negative stats are racists! Even if they were wrong about that, THAT DOESN’T MAKE THEM RACISTS! Just possibly misinformed! There are so many statisitics out there pro and con that who the hell knows what to believe anyway? But as I said, the one thing you can’t argue is the rule of law and that is the NUMBER ONE reason that Americans of most all ethnicities oppose it and don’t want another amnesty or whatever else you wnat to call it for allowing them to stay here.

  • Evelyn
    August 17, 2008 at 9:54 pm

    Frank :
    What a sick, twisted, lying racist YOU are, Evelyn!
    E
    A reaction like this from a racist is a blessing. It is the best credable proof I can get (which is something I like to ask for) that you are left completely out of anything of substance with which to conduct a credable debate.
    Our constitution does not nullify our immigration laws or our right to enforce them. Are you really this stupid?
    E
    The STUPID Alzheimers infected one is you.
    Now, you are going to accuse me of statements you make up???
    How sad you would stoop so low. How truly dispicable you are.
    Your racism has gotten the better of you, see a doctor you are sick.

  • Frank
    August 18, 2008 at 2:25 pm

    At least I show proof of YOUR racism. You have never had any on me. You just spout that off arbitrarily based on NOTHING that equates to racism.
    Since when does the rule of law lack substance? You NEVER debate all you do is call me and others in here, racists and for good reason whatsover!!!
    You are the sick one and you should be investigated by the FBI for your anti-American hateful remarks and disgusting racism towards whites who do not share your political and immigration views. You can go straight to hell as that is where you are going eventually anyway!
    Why Marisa allows your tripe in here is unconceivable to me. A difference of opinion is one thing but calling every white person in here who doesn’t agree with you, horrible, hateful names doesn’t belong in a decent blog!

  • Evelyn
    August 19, 2008 at 11:51 am

    Frank :
    At least I show proof of YOUR racism. You have never had any on me. You just spout that off arbitrarily based on NOTHING that equates to racism.
    E
    Let the non racist majority American public make that decision.
    ~~~
    Since when does the rule of law lack substance?
    E
    The second it’s based on something that is evil and immoral. Hurting people that are trying to feed themselves and make a better life for themselves by following the wealth of their homelands, is both evil and immoral!
    ~~~~
    You NEVER debate all you do is call me and others in here, racists and for good reason whatsover!!!
    E
    That is because there is no other name for the behavior you and others show with all the lies and hate targeting one certain group of people. It’s called racism and people who practice it are called racist.
    ~~~~~
    You are the sick one and you should be investigated by the FBI for your anti-American hateful remarks and disgusting racism towards whites who do not share your political and immigration views.
    E
    Oh sure, like the FBI is going to investigate me for posting articles that other people who study political issues have authored.
    Get a grip on reality.
    TRUTH is your enemy because it exposes your racism.
    It doesent allow you to hide behind the smoke screen of lies you have created to further your racist agenda of hate targeting immigrants from south of the border!
    ~~~~
    You can go straight to hell as that is where you are going eventually anyway!
    E
    First of all I dont believe in hell. But that’s another story.
    When God appoints you to take ‘St. Peters Job’ then I might worry!
    Till then calm down and count to 100.
    See, racism doesent pay. Why Marisa allows your tripe in here is unconceivable to me. A difference of opinion is one thing but calling every pro-immigration reform activest in here who doesn’t agree with you, horrible, hateful names doesn’t belong in a decent blog!

  • Frank
    August 20, 2008 at 9:30 pm

    I don’t spout tripe and I am not a racist. You are the one calling anyone who doesn’t agree with your views a racist and other horrible names along with demonizing every white person who ever walked this earth. Why do you do this and then turn around and claim it is others who do it instead? You have some serious psychological problems.

  • Michaela
    August 21, 2008 at 11:29 pm

    Evelyn said:
    See, racism doesent pay. Why Marisa allows your tripe in here is unconceivable to me. A difference of opinion is one thing but calling every pro-immigration reform activest in here who doesn’t agree with you, horrible, hateful names doesn’t belong in a decent blog!
    You are an unbelievable hypocrite Evelyn. I cannot understand how Marisa allows YOU to stay on this group with your vicious vile anti-white rants. You need to open your mind, you are trapped in a downward spiral of hate that will be your end.

  • Michaela
    August 21, 2008 at 11:37 pm

    Evelyn said:
    I am not bitter and filled with hate like you.
    Oh come on Evelyn, you are the most bitter person I have ever encountered. Full of racism against whites and people who don’t agree with you. I’m sure you hate coconuts too, don’t you?

  • Evelyn
    August 24, 2008 at 9:20 am

    Michaela said
    You are an unbelievable hypocrite Evelyn. I cannot understand how Marisa allows YOU to stay on this group with your vicious vile anti-white rants. You need to open your mind, you are trapped in a downward spiral of hate that will be your end.
    E
    The fact that you resort to bashing the messenger is proof you have nothing credable to debate with. Bashing the messenger is totally hypocritical. Just come out and admit you are wrong. TRUTH has nothing to do with being a hypocrite.
    ~~~~
    Oh come on Evelyn, you are the most bitter person I have ever encountered. Full of racism against whites and people who don’t agree with you. I’m sure you hate coconuts too, don’t you?
    E
    I could say the same about you. Why do you ask are you a coconut?

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