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Latina Lista: News from the Latinx perspective > Life Issues > Children > It’s Been a Bad Week to Be an Immigrant Child in the U.S.A.

It’s Been a Bad Week to Be an Immigrant Child in the U.S.A.

LatinaLista — Children are sacred.
Industrialized countries understand that universal edict and defend children — no matter their circumstances.
The countries that enslave children and prostitute, exploit and press them into soldier-duty are routinely considered less than civilized and unfit to join the power ranks of the developed world.
So, it’s rather ironic that the leadership in this country can still hold their heads up high while they blatantly follow the paths of those countries we purposely shun for not being smart enough to safeguard their most precious asset — the children.

(Source: University of Michigan)
It doesn’t matter that the children are undocumented or immigrants. They are children with potential to grow into accomplished adults, able to achieve great things.
But the actions of the federal government and local leaders, who are on a path to cleanse cities of undocumented immigrants, are also in the process of washing away a reservoir of great potential for future leaders, scientists, writers, entertainers, etc. — but most of all, contributing citizens.


All over the nation, immigrant children, of all ages, have felt the ramifications of what it means to not be born in this country.
Undocumented college-age students spent as much time watching C-Span as MTV over the last two weeks as they waited for the Senate to vote on the Dream Act amendment that was to be added to the Defense Reauthorization Bill now under debate in the Senate.
Yet, like with the Immigration reform bill, the Senate couldn’t come to an agreement. So the Dream Act amendment has been put on hold.
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid promised to bring the measure back for a vote by mid-November. In the meantime, students who were ready to go to school are having to put their lives on hold — yet again. No one can blame them if they’re frustrated and feel like life is passing them by as they watch their friends whom they went to high school with enjoy their college years.
In Irving, Texas, school officials are reporting that, so far this week, about 90 immigrant chlidren have been pulled from the public schools by their parents.
Police have stepped up their efforts to deport undocumented immigrants so much that parents are worried that their children will be targeted in the schools.
In the neighboring suburb of Farmers Branch, city attorneys, on behalf of the City Council, have asked the local school district to supply them with the name and address of every child living in the city and enrolled in the public schools.
From a city council that earlier this year passed punitive measures meant to drive out undocumented immigrants from their suburb (like not allowing undocumented immigrants to rent apartments), no one trusts the motives for such an unusual request, and the City Council isn’t explaining why they want it either.
Yet, the biggest blow this week came in the form of the Democrat’s handling of the State Children’s Health Insurance Program or SCHIP. Though Bush vetoed it and congressional Democrats blasted the President for depriving thousands of low-income Latino children of needed health coverage, the Democrats had earlier disappointed legal immigrant children by dropping the Immigrant Children’s Health Improvement Act or ICHIA.
It didn’t matter to the Democrats that Republicans were supporting this one measure that dealt fairly with immigrant children; they dropped it without explaining why.
Some have speculated it’s because the term “immigrant” was in the name of the provision, and the term has such a negative connotation these days that politicians want to distance themselves as far from it as possible.
Maybe so, but distancing ourselves away from something or someone is also a way to abandon that issue or person.
As a country, we can’t afford to abandon any child.
Why?
Because there’s potential in their destiny, and that’s worth caring about every time.

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Comment(67)

  • Avatar
    Horace
    October 4, 2007 at 9:59 pm

    I’ve said it before. If you people want Mexicans cared for, medically, educationally or otherwise, prevail upon Mexico for the money to do it. You keep saying that Mexicans contribute, but they can’t even take care of themselves to the point of self-sufficiency. If you say that illegal immigrants need public assistance, then they can’t be net contributers, but only dependents. Everything you’ve been saying is a lie. You can’t have it both ways, net contributer and dependent on the public welfare. It appears that what opponents have been saying is true. Importing illegal aliens is importing a tax burden for the citizen. American citizens will not be forced to care for foreigners except in the case of foreign aid. Illegal aliens are not recognized immigrants, as we have only one way of gaining legal residency in this country, and that’s in accordance with our laws. There are no shortcuts to legitimacy. The sooner that illegal immigrants learn that, the sooner they will learn that they will not prosper in this country by cheating. Catering to illegal aliens only invites more of them. The 1986 amnesty was the prelude to the current immigration disaster, one that will never be repeated.

  • Avatar
    yave begnet
    October 4, 2007 at 10:20 pm

    If you people want Mexicans cared for
    Once again, conflating all “you people” (whatever that means) with Mexicans. Sloppy. And telling.
    I thought you had given up on us already.
    As far as ICE’s views on children, I think it’s only a matter of time before ICE detains one or both parents of a child who depends on them to survive, and that child dies because mommy and daddy don’t come home one day. It almost happened in Massachussets a few months ago. I suppose Krikorian would say “good riddance.”

  • Avatar
    Daniel Maldonado
    October 5, 2007 at 4:20 am

    Whorace: “I’ve said it before. If you people want Mexicans cared for, medically, educationally or otherwise, prevail upon Mexico for the money to do it. You keep saying that Mexicans contribute, but they can’t even take care of themselves to the point of self-sufficiency. If you say that illegal immigrants need public assistance, then they can’t be net contributers, but only dependents. Everything you’ve been saying is a lie. You can’t have it both ways…”
    Actually, Mexico should be sending the u.s. a bill for every man, woman and child that leave there to come here and contribute to this economy.
    Everyone knows that this costs Mexico dearly.
    Your post looks at migration through the eyes of a racist accountant.
    You do not look at the economic impact.
    You fail to consider the overall value of the work product over the lifespan of of the migrant, and its ripple effect throughout the entire u.s. economy.
    Moreover, you do not consider the increased labor value of college educated migrant children over their lifespans.
    So who is supporting whom? We support you, as we have been doing since you got off your boats and set foot on our continent.
    We’ve been here for 12000 years. We will roam where we see fit. We will settle where it suits us the most.
    And if you do not like it go back to Europe.

  • Avatar
    Frank
    October 5, 2007 at 7:52 am

    If Latinos don’t like the fact that we have immigration laws, they can go back to whatever country they were born in or some other Latino country.
    These kids are not immigrants they are illegal aliens. Their own countries should be providing healthcare and education for them. These kids can become scientists, writers, etc. in their own countries and help improve their economies and lot in life there. We are not lacking in native talent here.
    Mexico should send us a bill for their citizens for making the decision to come here illegally and take American jobs? Are you kidding me? The only ones who are profiting from this are the employers who hire them. American citizens are footing the bill for their health, education and welfare. Not to mention depleting our natural resources and creating overcrowded conditions in this country. We should be sending Mexico a bill because they are a net loss to this country, not a gain.
    I don’t care how long you have been on this continent, it has nothing to do with the established U.S. government now. Only U.S. citizens and legal residences have a right to be in the U.S. No you won’t roam as you see fit. We are a soverign nation with immigration laws. This is not 12,000 years ago. Most Americans have never even set foot in Europe, they were born here. This reconquista, we were here first, is nothing but BS. You weren’t even alive 12,000 years ago. Bring yourself up to 2007. This kind of talk only hurts your side of the issue.

  • Avatar
    David O.
    October 5, 2007 at 9:01 am

    “This kind of talk only hurts your side of the issue.”
    You mean like, “American citizens are footing the bill for their health, education and welfare. Not to mention depleting our natural resources and creating overcrowded conditions in this country.”
    Think about it Frank, and how xenophobic that statement is, because to us ‘American citizens’ is now code for ‘Gringos’ to put it mildly. What’s the total population of this country again? 300 plus million is it? And you say illegals, less than 5 percent of the total, are depleting the natural resources and creating overcrowded conditions?
    In a way that’s true because Homeland security can’t build detention centers and jails and fences fast enough.
    Go Chernoff!
    Vote Republican!
    Save our way of life!

  • Avatar
    Maria
    October 5, 2007 at 9:46 am

    I don’t feel sorry for illegals. If they get caught and wind up in ICE’s care, that is the consequence they must suffer for breaking the law It’s the blantant disrespect that primarly the latino immigrants have towards our laws that makes naturalized and born citizens alike dislike them. Illegals do not have the right to barge into America. They don’t deserve a free pass. That’s the point, They don’t deserve anything. They are not better than American citizens…they are common criminals. Yes, it is true….they broke the law by entering illegally.
    The point is this…Americans are tired of the blantant disrespect that is continiously shown. Americans (in most cases) follow the rules. Is it too much to ask that immigrants do the same? I don’t care what the sad sob story of the day is….they are always people worse off. Follow the rules. If one follows the rules there is no fear of ICE or deportation. There is no fear that children will be yanked from their parents arms….B/c none of that will happen if you are legal.
    How does anyone expect people to feel badly when they knew what the stakes of being caught were to begin with and still decided to do it?
    I believe Newton summed it up well…Every action has an opposite and equal reaction. If you don’t want to do the time…don’t do the crime.

  • Avatar
    Maria
    October 5, 2007 at 10:02 am

    You fail to consider the overall value of the work product over the lifespan of of the migrant, and its ripple effect throughout the entire u.s. economy.
    Like how they take our jobs? Yea, I know jobs Americans won’t do…*rolling eyes* What you really mean is jobs we won’t do for slave wages. Of course, the illegals will do them because they don’t pay taxes anyways. They get to “keep” their entire paycheck.
    Tell me again why I should want my government to foot the bill for their education and healthcare? Tell me again why I want my taxes increased so they can get a free pass especially when they aren’t contributing to American society…..
    No thank you! That’s a bad deal anyway you want to look at it…except to the illegals.
    In my state, you cannot get any type of help without a SSN. One must wonder if this is why identity theft is on the rise?

  • Avatar
    Marisa
    October 5, 2007 at 10:14 am

    Okay, I’m doing a call-out: I noticed that “Maria” has an email that is in the name of “Steve.”
    When I just sent an email to Maria/Steve, it bounced.
    The automatic assumption is that either this person has a split personality or someone is misrepresenting him/herself to the group.
    Something that is not appreciated.

  • Avatar
    David O.
    October 5, 2007 at 10:58 am

    ‘Steve/Maria’
    B/c none of that will happen if you are legal.
    Really? I guess those U.S. citizens that have been arrested by ICE was just unfortunate. Oh well, my bad, oops, but no apology.

  • Avatar
    Horace
    October 5, 2007 at 12:19 pm

    What difference does it make if Maria called herself Steve or the other way around? I’d venture to guess that most who post here don’t use their correct names anyhow. The only things that count in blogs like these are ideas.
    Maria/Steve is expressing her/his frustration at Latino demands for special treatment for their ethnic group and he has irrefutably good logic as far as I’m concerned, as does Frank. Marisa’s arguments are mainly emotional are are more amenable to correction by the Mexican (mainly Mexico) government. If the Mexican government were doing its job, there would be no illegal immigration. Americans will not pay for Mexico’s mistakes, particularly when they hear that Mexico is hypocritically demanding citizenship for its nationals in a campaign orchestrated within our sovereign borders. Imagine the Mexicn people’s reaction if it were the other way around and our country set up consulates in Mexico, encouraged illict border crossings, facilitated of its citizens stay against the will of the Mexican people by issuing identity cards and then advised U.S. citizens on how to avoid local authorities. I must say that it turns reason in its head to say that the Mexican people would not react violently. If you disagree, you’re either stupid or insane.

  • Avatar
    Daniel Maldonado
    October 5, 2007 at 12:21 pm

    Stevaria,
    Those aren’t “Your Jobs.” They belong to the company. The business firm should be allowed to fill their positions with whomever they see fit.
    Tell me again why I should want my government to foot the bill for their education and healthcare?
    I’d be happy to. Because it’s a good investment. The better educated a worker is, the more productive they are. Productivity and education have a direct or positive relationship. Same as for healthy workers. What is in it for you is this: “your” country can ill afford to slack off in this era of global markets and global competition. Denying healthcare and education to people who are willing to work and produce for your country, while they leave their homes and family behind, is tantamount to shooting your own self in the foot.
    Not to mention ungrateful.
    You’re scapegoating migrants because it’s simplest thing to do. You’re blaming migrants for your own shortcomings and wanting to take out your frustrations on them.
    Nothing new on this front.

  • Avatar
    Diana Joe
    October 5, 2007 at 12:30 pm

    Adelante! Daniel Maldonado!
    For your cojones and truth!
    ASSIMILATE and no-body gets HATE!
    WHore-us and Frank seem to know all there is to know about law- we shouldn’t hear more from those two. Native Americans..yes INDINS are the ritefull proprietors to these here lands of the WESTERN HEMISPHERE-that INCLUDES all of MEXICO SOUTH AND CENTRAL AMERICA..the conquest came long before any of these EUROPEANS “know it alls” knew anything other than massie would eventually empty the chamber pots fer em’s. Get a grip fools native america is cleaning herself up-and she’s EXPOSING the haters and wannabees..coz if you havent heard everybody who’s blue-eyed and blonde has a great-great-great-grandmother that was “THE CHEROKEE PRINCESS”. Don’t start your DIVIDE AND CONQUER tactics on the GREAT nation Of MEXICATLS…we have a calendar it has a name and it has a purpose..to bring out the truth in yous. I will to represent the voice of the natural citizens of NATIVE AMERICA-that my fellows does not include haters.Part of the laws of these lands are NATURAL laws-go back and read the FINE print on the CONSTITUCIONes! Recreate your mind and your heart should follow-if this has failed yous..get help. From a CURANDER@

  • Avatar
    Horace
    October 5, 2007 at 1:51 pm

    Yave said: “As far as ICE’s views on children, I think it’s only a matter of time before ICE detains one or both parents of a child who depends on them to survive, and that child dies because mommy and daddy don’t come home one day. It almost happened in Massachussets a few months ago. I suppose Krikorian would say “good riddance.”
    Yave, ICE is no different then the police who apprehend other suspects or wanted criminals who fail to tell them for one reason or another that they have uncared for children at home. Aside from that, everyone makes mistakes, but that shouldn’t deter us from enforcing our immigration laws just because there is such a risk. Using your criteria, we shouldn’t enforce our other laws either. Don’t arrest John Dillinger because he has a family who will suffer from it. Sob stories shouldn’t get in the way of justice, because for every guilty person there’s an excuse for the behavior that got him arrested. The illegal alien and their advocate’s arguments against arrest are obviously just the disingenuous rantings of the culprit and his friends who’ll say anything to obstruct our legal system. You don’t fool anyone.
    “Once again, conflating all “you people” (whatever that means) with Mexicans. Sloppy. And telling.”
    Telling you what, yave? Be more forthcoming. Say it. I know you want to say it, as it’s the race card you’re tempted to pull, the last card in the deck for those who have no arguments of merit. It’s the one every illegal alien advocate will turn over in the end.

  • Avatar
    David O.
    October 5, 2007 at 2:51 pm

    So Horace,
    You now compare illegals to John Dillenger?
    Good for you. That one will definitely make me want to side with truth, justice and the American way.

  • Avatar
    Horace
    October 5, 2007 at 4:56 pm

    David O said:
    “That one will definitely make me want to side with truth, justice and the American way.”
    David, glad to hear that I was instramental in helping you change your approach. Were you failing to side with truth, justice and the American way before? Anyway, it’s good to hear that you’re reforming yourself. I’ve always supported self-imporvement efforts.
    Is that all you have to say in defense of your position?

  • Avatar
    David O.
    October 5, 2007 at 5:48 pm

    I don’t have to defend my position any of you people.

  • Avatar
    flower
    October 5, 2007 at 8:47 pm

    WHERES IS ALL THE TAX THAT ARE PAYING UNDOCUMENT PEOPLE?
    WHO IS USSING THIS MONEY?
    22 TRILLIONS PER YEAR
    GIVE THEM THEIR MONEY BACK!!!
    Let make simple numbers:
    1,200,000 undocumented children
    11,000 dollar per year cost each student.
    Total Cost = 13,200,000,000
    Now,
    9,000,000 undocumented people working in USA
    2400 dollars paid in taxes/year (is discount in their checks)
    Total contribution = 21,600,000,000
    There is 8,400,000,000 positive balance in favor undocumented people.
    Everybody know that you can count in your tax return the “future baby” (3 months pregnant), in others words the “future baby” is already count as one American more.
    but lets consider 3000 cost per American baby born from undocumented woman during the past 20 years. There are 4 millons US citizen from undocument people.
    Total cost = 6,000,000 per year
    I still have 8,394,000,000 in positive balance each year in favor undocumented people.
    plus hidden benefits like:
    – Cheap Fruit, vegetables and services in general
    – Mothers be able to work and earns 10 times more than her babysitter
    – Profit for employers who benefit investors too.
    – Huge donations from employers to hospitals, schools, libraries, etc.
    Most undocument people (80$) don’t fill tax return because they don’t know about it. Therefore they don’t have any money back taken from their check each month.
    If any person use Emergency care, nobody ask about legal status and take care of them but, then the hospital ask for the payment if they don’t have insurance. If the person (legal or illegal) doesn’t pay the bill they can go to jail.
    So, there is no a free emergency care free at all, if the person has little money (less than 2000) and lower income the goverment can pay the bill.
    There are 47 millions american people without health insurance and there are 12 million undocument people.That would mean 75% people in the emergency room, ramping up your insurance are americans, not undocument people.
    Beside, most undocument people are young (between 20-40) as you know at this age we don’t have critical illness. More important is, if the undocument people are in the emergency room who is working in the field?
    yes close the borders but legalize these hard worker people who are part of our society too.

  • Avatar
    Frank
    October 5, 2007 at 9:03 pm

    David, sorry you are bothered by the facts but everything I said about illegals costing us mucho tax dollars is the truth. There is nothing xenophobic about facts.
    Americans is not a codeword for “gringos”. Americans are comprised of many races and ethnic groups and you and I both know that.
    Uncontrolled population growth via illegal immigration, most of which believe in large families, do contribute to the depletion of our natural resources and demands on our education and health systems. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure that out. But go ahead in stay in denial.

  • Avatar
    yave begnet
    October 5, 2007 at 9:38 pm

    Horace, you rightly say there’s diversity among citizens. We U.S. citizens are not all gringos (although I am one). Likewise, there is wide diversity among immigrants. They are not all Mexicans. In fact, not once in Marisa’s post does she mention Mexicans, or even Latinos. She certainly could have, since she is Latina and her blog is devoted to all matters Latin@. But she didn’t. I feel many people assume all out-of-status immigrants are Mexicans when that is not true. And that is what I was pointing out in your comment–you referenced Mexicans in response to the post when Marisa had not said anything about them.
    Many of the complaints I hear are directed towards Mexicans even when the context does not warrant that distinction. I think this is because much of the animus towards immigrants is actually animus specifically towards Mexicans and Central Americans more because of cultural, racial, and class differences than because of immigration status.

  • Avatar
    Horace
    October 5, 2007 at 10:27 pm

    Yave,
    Fact: The vast number of poor who cross our borders illegally are Mexicans.
    Fact: Mexico is aiding and abetting illegal immigration of its citizens.
    Fact: The Mexican government is interferring in the politics of this country.
    Fact: It is Hispanic advocacy groups that are putting political pressure on our government to act contrary to the will of the majority of citizens.
    Fact: It is primarily Mexicans and Mexican Americans who march in our streets, and taunt citizens by saying that is country isn’t theirs.
    Fact: It is Hispanics, primarily Mexican-American Hispanics that are demanding special privileges for their tribe.
    Yave, if you haven’t figured out by now why Mexican nationals are taking the majority of the flak for the illegal immigration issue your either stupid or insane.

  • Avatar
    flower
    October 5, 2007 at 10:46 pm

    Fact: is your are scare latino population can take your crown.
    Fact: American people broke tha law and we want
    (example Irak)
    fact: Americans create this situation and refuse to fix it.
    Fact:You love cheap labor but you don’t want recognize them

  • Avatar
    Horace
    October 5, 2007 at 10:52 pm

    “Those aren’t “Your Jobs.” They belong to the company. The business firm should be allowed to fill their positions with whomever they see fit.”
    Actually, DM, they are jobs the U.S. has decided that should be filled by citizens or legal aliens with visas. Employers do not have the right to hire without restriction. It is illegal to hire illegal aliens and that’s not up for debate at this time.
    Yave, saw your 24 September post on idiot Spitzer’s proposal to give illegal aliens driver’s licenses. There’s no doubt in my mind that his act is no less than aiding and abetting the presence of illegal aliens in this country, and as such is interferring in the implementation of immigration law. Furthermore, the Supremacy Clause of the Constitution says that federal law takes precedence over state. The state cannot make law that conflicts with federal statute.

  • Avatar
    Horace
    October 5, 2007 at 11:07 pm

    Fact: Flower, your English stinks, as do your rationales for supporting illegal immigration.
    Fact: There are hundreds of millions of foreigners other than Mexicans to choose from as guest workers. We can pick the best over those whose only qualifications are that they have a border with the U.S.
    Fact: I’m tired of you misspelling Iraq as “Irak”.
    Fact: It is illegal immigrants that took advantage of our unfenced and ungarded borders. And after taking advantage of that situation they now blame us for building a fence and for sending them home. This is such laughable chutzpah.
    Fact: Labor is as cheap as our willingness to tolerate the exploitation the poor to their fullest. What don’t you understand about the immorality of tolerating employers who take advantage of the unfortunate?

  • Avatar
    flower
    October 5, 2007 at 11:32 pm

    Sorry for the missspelling, I was taking care of my son and the same time answering your false statements.
    =======================
    Greenspan – `Major’ Increase in Immigration Could Aid Economy
    After U.S. Federal Reserve Chairman Allan Greenspan appeared before
    the Congress, most reports highlighted his blunt criticism of the
    administration’s plans for new tax cuts. But publications focusing on
    immigration are highlighting his unexpected statements implying that
    more immigration could fuel economic growth and help close the budget
    deficit.
    The immigration issues portal ILW.com, in its Immigration Daily
    newsletter, on Feb. 12 quoted from Greenspan’s semiannual report on
    monetary policy, which criticized White House plans for almost $700
    billion in tax cuts. Greenspan said the policy was risky, and that
    any growth it spurred may not close the budget deficit.
    “Short of a major increase in immigration, economic growth cannot be
    safely counted upon to eliminate deficits and the difficult choices
    that will be required to restore fiscal discipline,” said Greenspan’s
    report, submitted Feb. 11.
    Immigration Daily wrote that Greenspan’s statements are “common
    sense, but will surely startle some.” According to the newsletter,
    many on both sides of the immigration debate still erroneously view
    immigrants “as liabilities instead of assets.”

  • Avatar
    Frank
    October 6, 2007 at 7:34 am

    yave, we know that not all illegals are Mexicans but they are the majority. That is why you hear so much reference to Mexicans when the topic is illegal aliens. Don’t take it so literally.
    flower,
    Fact: We don’t want to become Mexico or Latino in identity as a nation. There is nothing wrong with that. Mexicans want to retain their identity as a nation too. So does every other country.
    Fact: it was our government that created this illegal immigration mess we are in now. They wanted the cheap labor for their corporate buddies. So now you are claiming that U.S. citizens should pay for it or are to blame for it and we have know right to clean up this mess?
    Fact: illegal aliens cost us more in tax dollars than they put into the system.
    Fact: we have a population driven economy due to illegal immigration. We need to get back to a smaller economy to fit a smaller citizen and legal immigrant population to safeguard out natural resources and be able to provide ample services for that population. Our economy will take care of itself. We shouldn’t strive for a monstrous economy that will destroy us in the end. Money isn’t everything.

  • Avatar
    yave begnet
    October 6, 2007 at 8:11 am

    We need to get back to a smaller economy to fit a smaller citizen and legal immigrant population to safeguard out natural resources and be able to provide ample services for that population. Our economy will take care of itself. We shouldn’t strive for a monstrous economy that will destroy us in the end.
    Once again holding forth on economics while almost totally illiterate on the subject. It’s hard to even respond since what you’re saying makes no sense.
    We need to get back to a smaller “citizen and legal immigrant economy”–so a population of 288 million vs. 300 million. Huge difference there. Do you know what those 12 million are doing for the other 288? Providing services, perhaps? Remove them and you’re removing services provided to the native-born.
    We need to “safeguard our natural resources.” Are you familiar with mercantilism? It was discredited in the 18th century. Apparently no one told you. Do you know what a commodity is? Do you know how many of the world’s resources the U.S. currently absorbs compared to its population? You’ve got it backwards: the world needs to safeguard its natural resources from the U.S.
    “Our economy will take care of itself.” Ben Bernanke might disagree. So does this mean you are a free marketeer after all, or simply confused?

  • Avatar
    David O.
    October 6, 2007 at 8:55 am

    Frank,
    Please don’t use mock Spanish, as in ‘mucho dollars’. Mucho is a not a Spanish word but rather one made up by whites to denigrate Spanish speakers.
    http://language-culture.binghamton.edu/symposia/2/part1/index.html#conclusion

  • Avatar
    Horace
    October 6, 2007 at 1:41 pm

    “Short of a major increase in immigration, economic growth cannot be
    safely counted upon to eliminate deficits and the difficult choices
    that will be required to restore fiscal discipline,” said Greenspan’s
    report, submitted Feb. 11″
    Flower, illegal immigrants, read foreigners, do not get a say in how we manage our immigration policies. If we need new immigrants, they will consist of the best from foreign lands, and the decisions will not be decided on the basis of who is most capable of swimming the oceans or sneaking across our borders. Greenspan also said that citizen professionals, read engineers, health care professionals, doctors, scientists, stoke brokers, corporate managers, etc, get paid too much money. Greenspan has said that we should import labor to bring down the wages of citizens. And this is after he made his millions and is in retirement.

  • Avatar
    Dread Pirate Roberts
    October 6, 2007 at 2:01 pm

    Horace wrote: “Flower, illegal immigrants, read foreigners, do not get a say in how we manage our immigration policies. If we need new immigrants, they will consist of the best from foreign lands, and the decisions will not be decided on the basis of who is most capable of swimming the oceans or sneaking across our borders.”
    Yes it true that illegal immigrants do not get a say in our immigration policy. That’s where we come in, i.e. immigration supporters, La RAZA, LULAC, Latina Listers, open borders groups, apologists, traitors, socialist or what ever label you want to use, and we will not back down.
    ————
    Horace,
    What is your solution to the immigration problem?
    Also what are the top gun, best of the best, superior immigrant qualities you would approve for picking lettuce ,onions and hammering roofing nails?

  • Avatar
    Dread Pirate Roberts
    October 6, 2007 at 2:22 pm

    Frank wrote:
    “There is nothing xenophobic about facts.
    Americans is not a codeword for “gringos”. Americans are comprised of many races and ethnic groups and you and I both know that.”
    There is nothing xenophobic about facts. I agree with you. So why are most, if not all, Latino, Hispanic, Mexican American, Chicano, groups up in arms?
    And a simple lesson for you. Chicanos and Mexicans don’t use gringo; they use gabacho, and it is not a derogatory term. Gringos use ‘gringo’.
    May I recommend the ‘Ask A Mexican’ column By Gustavo Arellano for some cultural writings and information on all things Mexican.
    http://www.ocweekly.com/columns/ask-a-mexican/ask-a-mexican/27845/
    If you are a regular reader of his column my apologies, perhaps others would find his work interesting. What websites would you recommend to us that promote your views?

  • Avatar
    Daniel Maldonado
    October 6, 2007 at 3:24 pm

    “American” is code for white, not gringo. I’m about as Chicano as a man can get and I do not use gabacho, I use gringo.
    And I say it with heart felt affection for the guys I grew up with.
    As for that Malinche Arellano, just click here to read his remarks on Chicanos. If don’t believe me, the links are supplied so that you can see his published remarks yourselves.

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    Dread Pirate Roberts
    October 6, 2007 at 3:33 pm

    Well thanks for the update on the Arellano’s site. What he wrote are fighting words mano. Big time.
    Neither fish nor fowl, and despised by both.

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    Frank
    October 6, 2007 at 5:01 pm

    yave, you are the one who needs an education on these matters, not me. I don’t deal in emotionalism as you do.
    My use of the word “mucho” wasn’t to degrade Spanish speakers in here. I use it often outside of this blog. You are being kind of petty, aren’t you?
    As far as needed Ag workers, we can either automate more or we can increase temporary visas for legal foreign labor for those jobs. Americans have always been in the construction industry hammering nails, etc. They are part of our blue collar workforce at least up until the illegals showed up to undercut their wages.
    I didn’t initially use the word gringo, one of the pro-illegals in here made that snide remark that it is a codeword for American. Get your posters straight before you falsely accuse someone.

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    yave begnet
    October 6, 2007 at 5:28 pm

    illegal immigrants, read foreigners, do not get a say in how we manage our immigration policies. If we need new immigrants, they will consist of the best from foreign lands, and the decisions will not be decided on the basis of who is most capable of swimming the oceans or sneaking across our borders.
    If wishes were fishes, we’d all have a fry. Back in the reality-based community, there is little coherence to our visa policy for either skilled or unskilled workers. From a recent study:
    The key finding from this research is that the number of skilled workers waiting for visas is significantly larger than the number that can be admitted to the United States. This imbalance creates the potential for a sizeable reverse brain-drain from the United States to the skilled workers’ home countries.

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    flower
    October 6, 2007 at 7:14 pm

    You can said many false statements but you are unable make simple numbers (income/expenses) from undocument labor.
    I not say it is ok broke the law (US broke when he please), but these people need a second change. Its be honest with us and with them.

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    Daniel Maldonado
    October 6, 2007 at 7:24 pm

    Frank: “My use of the word “mucho” wasn’t to degrade Spanish speakers in here. I use it often outside of this blog. You are being kind of petty, aren’t you?
    As far as needed Ag workers, we can either automate more or we can increase temporary visas for legal foreign labor for those jobs. Americans have always been in the construction industry hammering nails, etc. They are part of our blue collar workforce at least up until the illegals showed up to undercut their wages.”
    Being petty? It isnt being petty considering what we’ve had to put up with all our lives from people like you.
    On the AG note, just how many agri-businesses do you own? I’m asking because you say “we.” You arent trying to tell argi-business owners how to invest their hard earned money in plant and equipment are you?
    I dont know about the rest of the country but in CA there is a 1 million home shortage. It’s been that way for years. I’ve been in construction all my life, specifically the HVAC business – Heating, Ventilating and Air-conditioning business. The whites have generally moved up and out of construction. Some left for the prison industry while others moved to technology. There was a vacuum and the migrant filled the vacuum. I know many general contractors, roofers, framers etc. that make well over $25.00 – $45.00 per hour – all settled in now but all arrived as migrant workers. In my own company I pay about $300.00 – $400.00 per house, just to run flex duct. A Mexicano will work a Saturday and duct 4 houses a week. An “American” will almost always take up to an entire week to duct just two houses earning him $600.00-$700.00 a week. But most just want to show up to work and act intelligent and think they’re going to make boatloads of cash.
    also, many of my customers are R.E. developers who first arrived as migrants or on tourist visas and stayed. Went to R.E. school and became agents and brokers an and now are developers who buy from yours truly.

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    Horace
    October 6, 2007 at 9:46 pm

    ” A Mexicano will work a Saturday and duct 4 houses a week. An “American” will almost always take up to an entire week to duct just two houses earning him $600.00-$700.00 a week.”
    I’ve heard a lot about the poor quality of work done by illegal immigrants. They work cheap and fast but beware the homeowner who will likely regret it months down the road after the work is completed.

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    David O.
    October 6, 2007 at 9:58 pm

    Yeah and I’ve heard of shoddy work done by Blackwater, NASA contractors, ENROM, Halliburton, Lockheed Martin and Grumman, etc., but the only difference was that these U.S. corporations screwed the public and the government.
    You, of course, will not stop until you blame the illegal immigrant for everything that ails this country.

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    Daniel Maldonado
    October 6, 2007 at 10:17 pm

    horacio: “I’ve heard a lot about the poor quality of work done by illegal immigrants. They work cheap and fast but beware the homeowner who will likely regret it months down the road after the work is completed.”
    haha. Not so fast, amigo. 1st, there is an automatic 1 year warranty on all houses built in CA. In addition, there is a mandatory inspection on the rough and the finish, and no one gets a draw (money fron the bank or developer) until we all pass. The HVAC is business in CA is governed first by the Uniform Mechanical code, then by the CA business and professions code which in turn is enforced by the CA State Contractor’s License Board. Then we are mandated by CA Title 24 to comply with Energy Efficiency standards. Everything built in the Counties of Los Angeles, San Diego, Orange or built in the cities of San Francisco or L.A. proper must also comply with seismic regulations, which will soon become even stricter as we catch up to Mexico city and Japan.
    The HVAC, electrical and plumbers are all on the same totem pole. The inspector wants to cover us all in one visit to the project -job situs. I dont get paid until the plumber and electrician pass their inspections. No one gets paid until we get a certificate of occupancy.
    All inspectors use building plans which were designed by an architect and draw by an engineer to check the contractor’s work.
    Finally, I my guys do not see any money until I AM SATISFIED with the work done. I personally inspect all my projects before I give the general the green light to call for inspection. I’m not paying top dollar for crapola. No one does.
    We build some of the finest houses, commercial buildings, and plazas in the United States.
    One more point, the CA dept of Real Estate will never allow the poor quality houses to be sold. Period.

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    Daniel Maldonado
    October 6, 2007 at 10:26 pm

    David:
    “Yeah and I’ve heard of shoddy work done by Blackwater, NASA contractors, ENROM, Halliburton, Lockheed Martin and Grumman, etc., but the only difference was that these U.S. corporations screwed the public and the government.
    You, of course, will not stop until you blame the illegal immigrant for everything that ails this country.”
    That’s right. and it brings me to another point. These companies have their own architects, engineers and emplyees and arealmost always exempt from the inspections and procedures that everyone else must follow. Hence, the lower quality of work. Same as with cities and other municipalities… they do not inspect themselves. And most of these jobs are held by white males. Squandering taxpayer dollars while everyone else has to compete in a regulated market.
    talk about a FREE RIDE!

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    Horace
    October 7, 2007 at 7:09 am

    You’ve convinced me. Illegal immigrants with no prior skills are given a hammer, immediately qualifiying them as carpenters, and sent to work to built quarter millin doller houses. How prodigious they are! At one time in this country, we had trade schools and apprentice programs for citizens, and we could be sure that those constructing our home wouldn’t be novices or incompetents. Not anymore. Today, its hire the cheapest labor possible, slap them together and make the maximum profit possible. Sorry Dan, I wouldn’t buy a house put together base upon cutting corners.

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    Frank
    October 7, 2007 at 8:28 am

    David, if there is a shortage of houses in Calif. or anywhere else in this country, it is directly to our huge population growth and a good portion of it is that we have millions of illegal aliens that have moved in to our country.

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    Horace
    October 7, 2007 at 5:34 pm

    Actually, there was never a housing shortage before the boom. It is evident now that lenders, realtors and builders were in league with one another, selling to illegal aliens and citizens who took out balloon mortgages with no money down, on houses they ultimately could not afford, and are now defautling on. Most of the people who took out such mortgages would have been better off buying smaller homes or renting apartments. Those that had any equity are now losing it because their home values have declined to below their original cost, but the home owner still have to pay back the origninal amount. This, more than any ICE action will result in more illegal aliens moving back to Mexico (or to other homelands). Au revoir mes amis! The ensuing slump will result in the disemployment of tens of thousands of illegal alien drywallers, carpenters, roofers, etc. Bon voyage!

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    Johnny Chingas
    October 7, 2007 at 6:51 pm

    Bueyes: “You’ve convinced me. Illegal immigrants with no prior skills are given a hammer, immediately qualifiying them as carpenters, and sent to work to built quarter millin doller houses.”
    How do you think whiteboys learned?
    Bueyes: “At one time in this country, we had trade schools and apprentice programs for citizens, and we could be sure that those constructing our home wouldn’t be novices or incompetents.”
    Ehh, there still there. But the union members look more like me lol!
    Bueyes: “Today, its hire the cheapest labor possible…”
    Only if you have cheap customers. the state of CA recommends you walk away.
    Bueyes: “Sorry Dan, I wouldn’t buy a house put together base upon cutting corners.”
    No one does.
    Buey: “David, if there is a shortage of houses in Calif.”
    Well, that means you do not know the market. I do. Eat my shorts. And where are your stats to substantiate your claim that it is because of “illegals?” I think the numbers will show that it is because people who have made it from other states and counties move here because they like it here.
    Bueyes: “Actually, there was never a housing shortage before the boom.”
    What boom? The baby boom? There has always been more people willing to buy than people willing to sell (since you Euros came, that is). Otherwise, prices would would drop. duh. duh. duh.
    Bueyes: “It is evident now that lenders, realtors and builders were in league with one another, selling to illegal aliens and citizens who took out balloon mortgages with no money down, on houses they ultimately could not afford, and are now defautling on. Most of the people who took out such mortgages would have been better off buying smaller homes or renting apartments. Those that had any equity are now losing it because their home values have declined to below their original cost, but the home owner still have to pay back the origninal amount.”
    Evident, huh, then you wont have trouble providing your stats that prove most of these consumers were “illegals.” Also, are you telling me that R.E. prices wont go back up? The fact is that most homeowners can weather the storm and hang in until prices turn around and go back up.
    Bueyes: “This, more than any ICE action will result in more illegal aliens moving back to Mexico (or to other homelands).”
    You truly do not know what you are talking about.
    Aliens will move back to Europe. This is true according to the U.S. Census data.

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    Frank
    October 7, 2007 at 9:41 pm

    Alien = foreigner according to the dictionary. American citizens aren’t foreigners.

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    Daniel Maldonado
    October 7, 2007 at 10:10 pm

    Alien (Webster’s)
    Main Entry: 1alien
    Pronunciation: ‘A-lE-&n, ‘Al-y&n
    Function: adjective
    Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French, from Latin alienus, from alius
    1 a : belonging or relating to another person, place, or thing : STRANGE b : relating, belonging, or owing allegiance to another country or government : FOREIGN c : EXOTIC 1
    2 : differing in nature or character typically to the point of incompatibility
    That’s you gringo.
    Your are not native to this land.

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    Horace
    October 7, 2007 at 10:22 pm

    “Eat my shorts.”
    What a deal! An invitation to eat dinner at Johnny Chingas house. If that’s on the menue it must be Wednesday.

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    Frank
    October 7, 2007 at 10:25 pm

    Yes, I am native to this land. I was born here!

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    Horace
    October 7, 2007 at 11:21 pm

    “Your are not native to this land.”
    Unless you’re an Amerindian, by your definition, you’re also and alien, Maldonado. Amerindians were here for something like 20,000 years prior to Columbus. Care to go back to Spain?
    You realize that this whole thing with hatred toward gringos is silly, as neither of us is going back to the old country, so it’s immature to speak of it.

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    Daniel Maldonado
    October 8, 2007 at 4:50 am

    Horacio: “What a deal! An invitation to eat dinner at Johnny Chingas house. If that’s on the menue it must be Wednesday.”
    Finally a level of dialog that you can relate to.

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    Daniel Maldonado
    October 8, 2007 at 4:52 am

    I dont hate gringos. And I am indigenous, not European.

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    Frank
    October 8, 2007 at 7:56 am

    Your posts reek of hatred for anglo-whites. Still trying to cover your tracks now? Your posts speak for themselves.
    So you have no Spanish blood in you? Come on, fess up. You’re not full blooded indegenous and you know it.
    Even the “indegenous” came here through the Bering Straits and weren’t magically here since time began.
    Possension is 9/10ths of the law and the U.S. and its citizens have been in possession of this nation for over 200 years now.

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    David O.
    October 8, 2007 at 8:07 am

    Oh Oh Daniel. He’s on to us. Quick cover your tracks.
    Frank we will fess up if you fess up your equus asinus blood. You know ASS the loud braying type.

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    Daniel Maldonado
    October 8, 2007 at 9:12 am

    Hey David,
    Now I know why they call Horace and Frank “Trolls.”
    Poor guys, no brains, no education, no future.
    They seem to have developed this fixation with “illegals” and “the law.”
    Almost as if “white power” has been replaced by “citizenship.”
    I mean look at the white supremacists, theyre not good academically, theyre not good in sports, theyre not good at business, theyre not particularly good at anything…
    but the hold one thing that they use to tell themselves they are better, and that’s being born white.
    Although, they had no control over that whatsoever.
    Now replace being born white with being born a citizen and you have your typical loser nativist.

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    Frank
    October 8, 2007 at 2:44 pm

    How childish your posts are getting in here. Calling names like little kids.
    I don’t advocate white power, brown power or anything else that places one race/ethinicty above another. I am not a white supremist and I don’t think that whites are better than anyone else. You and yours however think that Latinos are better than anyone else in this country because you advocate their illegal entry into this country. So that makes you a brown supremist. I am just as opposed to whites entering our country illegally as any other group.
    I am opposed to illegal immigration and I am opposed to treasonous traitors who think their ethnicity has some sort of special priviledges or rights to this country. And in fact speak of taking over this country.
    Too bad you can’t debate this issue civilly rather than resorting to name calling and insults about someone you know nothing about.

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    Hitler's Headache
    October 8, 2007 at 7:05 pm

    Well, I just remember when my boss show me his new leather seats in his new Mercedes, he could afford that Mercedes because he used to pay low wages to the undocumented workers. So nobody counts that Mercedes as a contributions of the undocumented workers?
    Helloooo!!!!

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    Horace
    October 8, 2007 at 7:56 pm

    “So nobody counts that Mercedes as a contributions of the undocumented workers?
    Helloooo!!!!”
    I don’t know what this nation would do without leather seats on Mercedes, just fall apart, I guess. As STRONG case for the saviors of the United States of America. Where’s that amnesty bill? I’ll sign it myself.

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    Frank
    October 8, 2007 at 8:45 pm

    That is one of the reasons I oppose illegal immigration. These rich and greedy employers broke our laws and exploited illegal aliens for their own profit.

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    Hitler's Headache
    October 8, 2007 at 10:02 pm

    MATH, MATH, MATH.
    So far Mercedes-Benz USA has sold 180,265 this year that means many happy US Citizens driving Mercedes, I guess the savings on services like gardening and house keeping when an undocumented worker is hire are enough to get a Mercedes. Also don’t forget how many blue-collar jobs are sustained when a Mercedes is sold, that is an indication after all that undocumented workers are supporting more than just the middle class economy.

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    Hitler's Headache
    October 8, 2007 at 10:22 pm

    Frank wrote:
    These kids are not immigrants they are illegal aliens. Their own countries should be providing healthcare and education for them.
    Isn’t it communism when a country provide socialize medicine and education for their citizens and communist countries are our enemies. Isn’t it what we are telling the world that they have to behave like us?

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    Frank
    October 9, 2007 at 10:06 am

    Sorry, but I am not in favor of capitalism working by unlawfullness. Our country has immigration laws for many good reasons and so do other countries.
    Unlike you, I will not sacrifice morality to gain a buck or to save a buck.
    Our country did just fine before we had massive numbers of illegals in this country. We need to get back on track and return to a nation of laws without having tunnel vision for the future.
    Uncontrolled population growth via illegal immgration driving our economy, while ignoring all the negative impacts of doubling our population will destroy us down the road.

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    Hitler's Headache
    October 9, 2007 at 10:18 am

    Frank Wrote: We have our own to care for.
    So there are 50 millions uninsure in the US becouse we take care of them. an the other 250 millions only have a partial coverage so thats how we take care of our own blaming the undocumented immigrants for all our failures.
    To get qualify engineers we ask India to send us their best becouse we do not want to educate the kids of undocumented immigrants not even our kids for free but of course we save a lot money getting India’s best doctors and tecnicians, we do not pay for their college education.

  • Avatar
    Hitler's Headache
    October 9, 2007 at 10:36 am

    Frank wrote: Our country did just fine before we had massive numbers of illegals in this country.
    Our country was doing well when we did not have competition in the free market, when the Soviets and the Chinese where producing good for their own, now they are selling us the same products we used to produce, even Europe, India and Japan have become competitors in the free markets so thats the way the free world works, we are less and less productive every day confronted with more competition.

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    Frank
    October 9, 2007 at 5:17 pm

    Hitler, you do like to exaggerate,don’t you? Did I blame all of this nation’s woes on illegal aliens,no I didn’t.
    You are correct at this point in time we are not taking care of our own but since we are not we sure don’t need to to caring for illegals instead.
    You’re not telling me anything new as to how our government snubs its own citizens and that is why I am fighting to change this. The non-enforcement of our immigration laws just adds more to the troubles we already have in this country.

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    Horace
    October 9, 2007 at 6:21 pm

    Hiter’s Headache = Hitler’s Joke
    Sieg heil, Adolph! Anyone who’d use the name of Adolph Hitler as a blog name is contemptable. As a Jew I am offended.

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    qa frank
    October 9, 2007 at 11:47 pm

    FYI: Children born in this country are citizens.
    Amnesty will only work once the borders have been secured.
    Amnesty will only work if there is a grace-period for registration/legalization.
    Amnesty will only work once a deal has been made where criminals will be returned to their country of origin.
    Amnesty will only work once our government has been wiped clean of corruption.
    Amnesty will only work once current citizens realize reality television is not real, fast-food is not food, Oprah is gay, and money is not more important than people.
    It’s not about immigration, legality, or justice. It’s about money.

  • Avatar
    Tim Johnson
    October 10, 2007 at 12:24 am

    Tell it to Felipe Calderon and Carlos Slim (world’s richest man). These kids are their responsibility, not ours.

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