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Latina Lista: News from the Latinx perspective > Palabra Final > Politics > New Survey Finds Young Latinos Still Looking for Inspirational Latino Leadership in 2008 Campaign

New Survey Finds Young Latinos Still Looking for Inspirational Latino Leadership in 2008 Campaign

LatinaLista — An interesting exchange recently with a young twenty-something Latino reader shed light on why so many young Latinos and Latinas are finding themselves attracted to Obama and plan to vote for him.

Barak Obama
(Source: slate.com)

It boils down to one word: inspirational.


In speaking with a couple of other young Latinos/as about their choices for President, they all agreed on Obama too, and surprisingly, for the same reason.
Heavy-duty experience made little difference to them. He inspires them like none of the other candidates.
He is their Martin Luther King, Jr., John F. Kennedy and Cesar Chavez all rolled into one — charismatic, the visual underdog, the outsider.
He preaches change to an age-group who are at that stage in their lives where they know nothing but constant change: puberty, high school to college, going from their own room to their own apartment, the single life to wedded togetherness, school to “real” jobs, the list goes on.
These young Latinos/as are living the campaign of change and they identify with Obama’s delivery of it.
In fact, in a study of young Latino professionals between the ages of 18-39 released today by the National Hispanic Institute, results showed that the young support Obama, Guillliani and McCain.
What happened to Bill Richardson? (A question we’re asking too much these days.)
Well, according to the study, the young people surveyed said there weren’t any “influential” (a.k.a. inspirational) Latino leaders in the 2008 campaign.

…Latino candidate Bill Richardson only polled fourth among respondents identifying a preference for Democratic candidates, and a majority of respondents could not identify a national Latino leader who could influence their vote.

When it came to the issues most important to them:

27 percent identified the War in Iraq, 22 percent identified immigration, and education and the economy tied for third with 18 percent each.

According to groups that work with registering young voters, this election may be unprecedented in the turnout of young people ready to cast their votes for the first time.
We saw it in Iowa. It’s predicted to be happening now in New Hampshire and like a California wildfire, it’s spreading quickly across the country.
It’s safe to say that young Latino voters are very much a part of this new “surge.”
So, it was surprising that the founder of NHI would actually say the following:

The growth of the U.S. Latino population should make it a factor in the upcoming Presidential election, but this survey reinforces my concerns that this year’s candidates are not yet connecting with Latino voters,” Nieto said. “Richardson’s showing in particular, both in this survey and in the early state primaries and caucuses, indicates that the so-called ‘Latino Sleeping Giant’ in the electorate may remain in slumber well past this coming November.”

I disagree, and if my casual conversations with some Latino young voters are any indication, the Latino Sleeping Giant will be stirring come November.
But they’re only going to get out of bed for that candidate that gives them a reason to.

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Comment(50)

  • Avatar
    Maldonado
    January 8, 2008 at 8:23 pm

    Ehh,
    “Latino” voters are small in numbers. Smaller still is the “Young Latino” electorate. And of those even fewer numbers actually show up at the polls.
    MAC is BACK!

  • Avatar
    Frank
    January 8, 2008 at 8:31 pm

    Latinos are identifying with Obama just because he is of a minority race in this country plus he is an illegal alien sympathizer. They think he will look upon Latinos as the down trodden victims in this country just as many Blacks see themselves in that way also. We all know where this is going.
    Too bad that many young ethnocentric voters will be voting with their emotions instead of with their heads.

  • Avatar
    Texano78704
    January 9, 2008 at 11:08 am

    “Too bad that many young ethnocentric voters will be voting with their emotions instead of with their heads.”
    Just as many old “ethoncentric” white people are doing when they see a black man running for president. And I imagine there are more of them than “young ethnocentric” voters. Who are you trying to blame, Frank?
    The study in the article also shows that these “young ethnocentric” voters also support Guiliani and McCain, but keep on pretending it ain’t so.

  • Avatar
    Frank
    January 9, 2008 at 3:23 pm

    White people aren’t allowed the luxury of being ethnocentric in the PC world we live in today without being called racists.
    Where is your proof that white people won’t vote for a black man for president? White Republicans probably won’t vote for Obama but that is mainly because he is a Democrat and has nothing to do with skin color or race. I am sure many white Democrats would vote for Obama.
    These young ethnocentric Latino voters would vote for Guiliani or McCain because they are soft on illegal immigration. Anyone who is would have a chance to get their vote and thats what makes them earn the title of ethnocentric.

  • Avatar
    Texano78704
    January 9, 2008 at 4:20 pm

    “Where is your proof that white people won’t vote for a black man for president?”
    I didn’t say that, did I?
    If you are going make up words like “ethnocentric,” you will need to properly define them, as it seems you are using this term in two distinct ways. In your final sentence, it seems that the term applies to anyone who supports political candidates soft on immigration. If that is the case, then why could not whites be “ethnocentric?”

  • Avatar
    EYES OF TEXAS
    January 9, 2008 at 4:39 pm

    What happened to all the Hillbill supporters? That’s what this country needs is a Commander in Chief that gets teary-eyed when responding to tough questions. The woman is a puppet to her husbands decisions, so why not just put Bill back in office. At least then we would know what to expect. Nothing.

  • Avatar
    Frank
    January 9, 2008 at 7:32 pm

    Texano, you won’t see most white people voting for a white candidate simply because he/she is white. Not true of minorities. That is where ethnocentricity comes into play.
    You don’t see millions of white people advocating the illegal entry of white people into this country and calling anyone who objects to it a racist and other vile names, do you? No, that shoe fits many Hispanic citizens in this country….ethnocentricity comes into play again. Now do you understand?

  • Avatar
    Evelyn
    January 9, 2008 at 11:01 pm

    Frank
    Here you are at another thread with your foot in your mouth again!
    You state, “You don’t see millions of white people advocating the illegal entry of white people into this country”. Glass houses Frank!! NO, we don’t see millions of white people advocating the illegal entry of white people into this country because, IT”S ALREADY BEEN DONE! MILLIONS OF WHITE PEOPLE ALREADY INVADED THIS COUNTRY, AND KILLED ANYONE WHO OBJECTED TO IT!!! Daa

  • Avatar
    Texano78704
    January 10, 2008 at 8:59 am

    I see Evelyn beat me to it. Your statement about “white people voting for white candidates” might have some merit if it occurred in a void. But with the history of racism and bigotry in this country, it does not.
    “You don’t see millions of white people advocating the illegal entry of white people into this country and calling anyone who objects to it a racist and other vile names, do you?”
    Nor do you see Latinos doing a similar thing. What you do see is the majority of the people in this country, of all races and colors, supporting just treatment and a path to amnesty for undocumented workers.

  • Avatar
    Frank
    January 10, 2008 at 9:40 am

    Evelyn, The past is the past and there is nothing we can do to change it. If you expect those of us alive today to support an illegal invasion of our country just because of what happened in the past, you have another think coming. Good luck with that one.
    Texano, racism by whites has come a long ways in being irradicated. Now we have the new “brown” racism to contend with. Two wrongs don’t make a right.
    Amnesty and a path to citizenship for illegal aliens is not “just treatment”. It is rewarding them for breaking our immigration laws.

  • Avatar
    Texano78704
    January 10, 2008 at 12:37 pm

    “The past is the past and there is nothing we can do to change it.”
    But it is not the past we are talking about. It is the present. Or are we to believe that Republican candidates like Ron Paul, who take campaign donations from white supremacist groups, are really “color blind?”
    “If you expect those of us alive today to support an illegal invasion of our country…”
    That’s pure demagoguery, Frank. And you wonder why people get the impression that you are a racist.
    And if there really was an “invasion,” surely you could tell us what your conservative party heroes have done about it for the previous six years, when they dominanted both houses of Congress and the White House.
    “Now we have the new “brown” racism to contend with.”
    And my contention would be that it is all in your mind.
    Racism on a personal level is wrong, but it is not the same when it occurs on a social level or institutional level. You are making mountains out of molehills.
    “Amnesty and a path to citizenship for illegal aliens is not “just treatment”. It is rewarding them for breaking our immigration laws.”
    I keep trying to remember that reading comprehension is not one of your strong points, but the repetitiveness does get annoying. I said “just treatment and a path to amnesty. I guess that you, like Horace, do not believe that the worker deserves his pay.
    If you have a beef with amnesty, take it up with the majority of people in this country who want it.
    No doubt there are racists and xenophobes who really believe they can round up 12 million undocumented workers, put them on buses and send them to Laredo without destroy the fabric of our [their] society, but then they are pretty stupid, in my opinion.

  • Avatar
    EYES OF TEXAS
    January 10, 2008 at 2:45 pm

    The number of illegal aliens is closer to 20 million, unless you want to continue ignoring the past 10 years of illegal immigration. You are correct in your assumption that all illegal aliens can be deported, but if an honest effort were made to do so, many would leave on their own instead of going through the deportation process. Many would have to be deported through San Francisco back to Asian countries and some through New York back to the Middle East, not just Laredo.
    Our nation is crawling with criminal fugitives of all types and there is no way to catch them all, so why not just give them all amnesty from their crimes instead of hunting them down? Makes about as much sence as blanket amnesty for 20 million illegal aliens that are criminal just by being here illegally.

  • Avatar
    Frank
    January 10, 2008 at 4:07 pm

    Texano, try telling Evelyn that this isn’t about the past. Good luck with that one. What does Ron Paul have to do with this? He is only one candidate. I am sure the NCLR is donating money to their favorite candidate too.
    So you call 12-20 million illegals in this country, not an invasion? How does stating that “fact” make me a racist? It is no secret that our politicans are in the back pockets of the greedy employers hiring these illegals but you noticed it was the Republicans who stopped any kind of amnesty for them and voted for the fence to secure our border. The Democrats sure can’t say that.
    It is racist to advocate the illegal entry by one’s own ethnic kind into this country and then want to reward them with legalization and a path to citizenship so that there is an unnatural demographic takeover of this country. Doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure that one out.
    Yeah, hearing the truth does get annoying to those who have an agenda, doesn’t it? The majority of citizens do not want amnesty or any other rewards for illegal aliens and we are taking that beef up with our government. Notice you haven’t succeeded in getting anything this past year, only deportations?
    There is no need to round up 12-20 million illegals and bus them out of here. If we make it mandatory for employers to use the e-verify system to check their employees legal status in this country and fire those who are in violation, the illegals will self-deport when the jobs dry up. We also need a national, tamper proof I.D. card given to every citizen of this country. Putting up the fence and beefing up the BP will go a longs ways in deterring more from coming in too. There is nothing xenophobic or racist about wanting our immigration laws enforced. Whatever economical impact it will have we will recoup back in so many other ways. We don’t need an economy so large that we need illegal aliens to support it anyway. A population driven economy will take it’s toll on our natural resources and social infrastructures in the long run.

  • Avatar
    Evelyn
    January 10, 2008 at 4:32 pm

    Frank
    If the past is the past, and you don’t want to remember it, DON’T EMULATE IT!
    What illegal invasion of our country? Man Frank, put down the pot pipe, it’s affecting your ability to think coherently! Or is it?

  • Avatar
    Frank
    January 10, 2008 at 8:13 pm

    Evelyn, how the hell am I emulating the past? I assure you I live totally in the present. I obey existing laws. You are the one living in the past. So by this country having immigration laws, that is somehow emulating the past? What about Mexico? They have immigration laws and so does every other country in the world regardless of what wars were fought in each country and who occupied any country in the past.
    You’re the one smoking some funny stuff if you don’t think having 12-20 million illegals in this country doesn’t constitute an invasion. Why is our government even addressing this problem then? Are they smoking funny stuff too?

  • Avatar
    Evelyn
    January 10, 2008 at 8:57 pm

    Immigration proceedings are matters of administrative law, NOT CRIMINAL LAW. Undocumented Immigrants are NOT CRIMINALS even if entering the U.S. without proper documentation. Eyes is lying again, here is the proof.
    http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.jsp?articleId=281474976743890

  • Avatar
    Evelyn
    January 11, 2008 at 2:09 am

    Frank
    You are emulating the past by supporting the act of (attrition) starving out 12 million Immigrants who have been allowed to settle here. They have set down roots by being allowed to buy homes, marry American citizens, and have American children.
    Attrition was used in the past to starve out more than 400,000 Mexicans, and Mexican American citizens Frank, and it’s not going to happen again.
    So get used to living with the Immigrants or get out. The majority of Americans have no problems with it, they proved that by not supporting the candidates that support the deportation of these Immigrants.
    Only the racists like you do. Most Americans get along just fine with the Immigrants, and will do just fine once people like you, spreading lies, are exposed. You and your kind don’t like it, LEAVE, if your going to keep dividing America with your lies GO, we don’t want you here.
    Our gov. tried to address this problem, but they let every loudmouth RACISTS, BIGOT, ZEALOT, FEARMONGER, HATEMONGER, XENOPHOBE, that came out of the woodwork intimidate them.
    Don’t try the oh so so soooo illegal how very illegal the illegals BS with me. Go peddle that BS at mod bee with the rest of your minuteKLAN buddies! You didn’t want Comprehensive Immigration Reform. You wanted the borders wide open. You wanted the Immigrants to stay Illegal. You wanted a broken law that cant be enforced unless new ones are passed, well you got it!
    So now put up with it, and each time you feel the urge to blame someone for your ignorance, KICK yourself for keeping it that way!
    You keep bringing up the past by forgetting that millions of white people advocated for the illegal entry….. heck lets just call it what it was, illegal invasion of this country. History books that haven’t been whitewashed will tell you that.
    Meaning of the word invasion=an entering or being entered by an attacking force.
    The only thing Immigrants attack with a vengeance are jobs they are hired to do. Oh I don’t smoke Frank, but I bet if you put the pipe down and read what I write with a clear mind you can understand just fine…….unless of course you choose not to.
    Link to the deportations of American citizens.
    http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-04-04-1930s-deportees-cover_x.htm

  • Avatar
    Frank
    January 11, 2008 at 8:42 am

    Evelyn, if illegal immigation isn’t against the LAW then why are they subject to deportation when they are caught? How can there be punishment if there is no crime? It is a misdemeanor offense. A misdemeanor is a crime. If illegal immigration isn’t against the law, then why do we even have immigration laws?
    Those illegals who have settled here were not invited by the majority of law abiding Americans in this country. They were enticed by corrupt business that had NO RIGHT to invite them. You just don’t get it do you? The majority of Americans want our immigration laws enforced and we don’t go along with this corruption. Apparently you do!
    Employers were always supposed to check the validity of their employees, it just wasn’t enforced. Why does it not bother you that many illegals are working using stolen I.D.’s and SS numbers? That isn’t what this country is about. That is a felony! Why are you in favor of employers paying sub-standard wages to illegal aliens so that they can line their pockets with larger profits? Why is it alright with you to pay an illegal 8 bucks an hour and not hire an American worker who is entitled to 12 bucks an hour which is the prevailing wage? (just as an example).
    Get used to living with the “immigrants”? Americans have always lived with immigrants and no one including myself objects to that. IT IS THE ILLEGAL ALIENS WE ARE TALKING ABOUT!
    What lies have I told Evelyn? NONE, NADA! I see you are still on the personal attack. All you know about me is that I am for the rule of law and enforcing our immigration laws and that makes me a racist? You are one of the most childish people I have ever encountered and hateful too. Is this an example of those good Latino manners that Marisa spoke about?
    I never wanted the borders wide open. What are you talking about? I have expressed quite the opposite in here. In fact I thought that is one of the things we disagreed on. I want secure borders, always have! I never wanted the illegals here, period. Come legally or don’t come. If you are here illegally, get out! Did you just drift off into the twilight zone?

  • Avatar
    Texano78704
    January 11, 2008 at 10:35 am

    Frank, the NCLR is nothing like the white supremacists that are supporting Republican candidates.
    Evelyn already made the point, but let me reemphasize that 12 million undocumented workers does not constitute an invasion. Further, the undocumented workers here are from many different countries around the world.
    Should we give into your paranoia that the entire world is out to get the US by a military “invasion” with people willing to be exploited and work for low wages?
    According to studies, about 45% of the undocumented workers arrived in this country by some way other that crossing our southern border. For example, many have come here with a visa and simply stayed when their visa expired. Hardly an invasion.
    It is racist to advocate the illegal entry by one’s own ethnic kind into this country and then want to reward them with legalization and a path to citizenship so that there is an unnatural demographic takeover of this country? No, but that is not what is happening, contrary to your twisted logic.
    ** About 60% of Democrats, Republicans and independents support “a path to citizenship by registering, paying a fine, getting fingerprinted, and learning English, among other requirements.” (Opponents label this approach “amnesty.” So most Americans support some form of amnesty, whether they know it or not.
    source

  • Avatar
    Frank
    January 11, 2008 at 12:43 pm

    Texano, what is the difference between a white supremist group and a brown supremist group? If an organization is supporting illegal aliens because they are ethnically like themselves, then they are no different than what any white supremist group supports. You can candy coat them all you want but that is part of their agenda.
    Millions and millions of illegal aliens does constitute an invasion although not an armed one. But terminology is not what really matters here anyway. Call it what you want and I will it what want, it is the bottom line that matters. I know that there are other illegal aliens in this country besides those south of the border. Have I ever said otherwise? It is just that they make up the majority of them.
    If illegals are willing to work for sub-standard wages and be exploited that is their choice and they also chose to violate our immigration laws to do do. What happened to personal responsibility here?
    Yes about 40% of illegals are visa overstayers. They should be deported too. You must have flunked math if you don’t think that the continued illegal entry into our country by mostly one ethnic group is not creating a demographic takeover in this country. I have been around a long time and it has only been in the last 20 years that everything is in Spanish now. This isn’t because legal Hispanics are demanding it. It is due to the high influx of Spanish speaking illegals into our country. It starts with things like this and then political ground is gained by sheer numbers and it starts snowballing.
    I disagree with your “source”. That is not the way that your everyday law abiding American feels about this issue. Why do you think that CIR didn’t pass? They know that’s not what the majority of Americans want.

  • Avatar
    EYES OF TEXAS
    January 11, 2008 at 1:11 pm

    Just how many of these illegal aliens would actually go into a government office and admit they are here illegally? My guess is not many. How many would actually have the money to pay the rather large fine required? My guess is not many. The only feasable answer to the problem is to require the illegal alien to return to their country of origin and return as dictated by the law. No blanket amnesty will ever be accepted as it was in 1986 because the results would be the same as what happened after that amnesty, another wave of illegal aliens hoping to ride the next amnesty. The idea of most Americans supporting some form of amnesty all depends on where you get your information from and who you want to believe. Sources I have seen say 85% of Americans want all illegal aliens out of our country as soon as possible. But as always, my sources would be tagged racist just because they differ in opinion from yours. Our borders are still open, our border patrol are under attack and our politicians continue to pander to big business, the government of Mexico and ethnic special interest groups. Our leaders have failed us, the nation is crumbling and for the foreseeable future the trend will continue.

  • Avatar
    Texano78704
    January 11, 2008 at 2:38 pm

    “what is the difference between a white supremist group and a brown supremist group?”
    Nothing, but that isn’t what we are talking about here.
    “If an organization is supporting illegal aliens because they are ethnically like themselves, then they are no different than what any white supremist group supports.”
    There is a big difference that obviously escapes you. NCLR promotes social justice and human rights. White supremacists seek power, period.
    “What happened to personal responsibility here?”
    The very same question should have been addressed to employers who created the demand for labor. You call it an invasion. I call it a market response, the law of supply and demand. Do you have a problem with capitalism Frank?
    “You must have flunked math if you don’t think that the continued illegal entry into our country by mostly one ethnic group is not creating a demographic takeover in this country.”
    Not, I didn’t flunk math and I’m neither paranoid nor am I a bigot.
    “I have been around a long time and it has only been in the last 20 years that everything is in Spanish now. This isn’t because legal Hispanics are demanding it. It is due to the high influx of Spanish speaking illegals into our country.”
    Really? I thought it was a market response. No one is forcing companies to provide signs and automated phone systems in Spanish. If you do not like it, blame them, not undocumented workers.
    “Why do you think that CIR didn’t pass? They know that’s not what the majority of Americans want.”
    As I recall, comprehensive immigration reform legislation was blocked by Republicans in the House who wanted enforcement only legislation, contrary to popular opinion.
    You still haven’t told me why, during the six years that Republicans controlled both houses of Congress and the White House, nothing meaningful was done to stop your so called “invasion.”

  • Avatar
    EYES OF TEXAS
    January 11, 2008 at 3:25 pm

    Jorge Bush and his cronies from the south and north of America had a brain fart called the North Amererican Union; that is why the invasion was not stopped. If enough illegal aliens from the south could enter the U.S. and a growing number of Americans going south to retire in Mexico his sinister plan would be successful. Canada is a none factor since they will go along with anything to get a piece of American pie. One big happy continent set for another revolution.

  • Avatar
    Evelyn
    January 11, 2008 at 7:45 pm

    Your post shows only one thing, the fact that you choose not to understand TRUTH, of course you have every right to do this, as long as you stay away from lying about immigrants especially Mexicans Frank.

  • Avatar
    Frank
    January 12, 2008 at 7:56 am

    Evelyn, I haven’t lied about “immigrants” and I haven’t lied about “illegal aliens” either. Again you attack the messenger rather than the message. You believe your sources and I will believe mine but that doesn’t make either one of us a liar. But you ARE lying when you say I have singled out Mexicans. I have not. Mexicans just make up the largest majority of illegals in this country. I want them ALL gone, not just Mexicans.

  • Avatar
    Frank
    January 12, 2008 at 8:22 am

    Texano, the agenda of the NCLR may be to support social justice and human rights but it is only for Hispancs and they do support the illegal aliens of the Hispanic flavor in this country. They do seek political power for Hispanics in this country. There bottom line agenda is no different than “some” so-called white supremist groups. They are just more subtle about it. Any minority advocacy groups can get away with it because we live in this PC world that condemns any group who looks out for White interests as being racists. Mind you I am not talking about the KKK as I do condemn them.
    You are correct in that the employers should be held “personally” responsible too for their part in this illegal immigration mess. I have never said otherwise. I have always said that it is a three-fold blame. The employers, our government and the illegals themselves. They should ALL be held accountable. Yes, I do have a problem with capitalism based on illegality. Don’t you?
    I see you didn’t answer my question of what do you think will happen if we allow this illegal entry of people from mostly one country to
    continue? Of course it there would be an unnatural demographic change in this country. Do the math, Texano.
    I do blame the illegal aliens for creating a situation whereby business feels the need to pander to illegal aliens in their language. I also blame the businesses for doing this just for a buck. I blame them both.
    CIR didn’t pass in the Senate because of the public outrage of law abiding citizens and the Republicans for the most part were in agreement with American citizens. Our Republican president’s position on CIR was not in line with the Republicans in congress and that is why the invasion was allowed to continue. Enforcement only didn’t pass in the House because the Democrats blocked it. It was only when the illegal alien population grew to critical mass that ciitzens started to realize the impact of it and insisted that this issue be taken up in congress.

  • Avatar
    Frank
    January 12, 2008 at 8:50 am

    Texano, here is an article that you can either dispute about the NCLR or will make you think. I am just posting it, don’t kill the messenger. If you have any remarks about it’s validity or untruthfulness, please feel free to express them.
    http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=51026
    Of course, you probably won’t accept the source. But the fact is that they get their funding from corporations and Socialist groups like the Ford Foundation and George Soros. They in turn fund MEChA which is DECIDEDLY a brown nationalist group.

  • Avatar
    Frank
    January 12, 2008 at 5:55 pm

    Texano, another point I would like to make is we have the ACLU that is supposed to fight for justice and human rights for all citizens. So what do we need organizations for that represent certain ethnic groups? In fact the ACLU will fight for a minority over a White person anyday and they have done it.

  • Avatar
    Evelyn
    January 13, 2008 at 2:11 am

    Frank
    As long as people like you and groups like the ones you support and seek information from to lambaste, attack, and bash Hispanics exist, there is a need for groups like NCLR, MECHA, LULAC, and others who can defend Hispanics.
    These groups provide money, lawyers, and other resources needed to help protect Hispanics fend off these attacks. White people in this country are being attacked by al-qaeda, for protection they have the U.S. army.
    The KKK is made up of white supremacists. I don’t know of anyone who is attacking white supremacists, except maby the FBI, because this group does have a reputation for attacking and breaking the bones of anyone who is not white, and also breaking the law.

  • Avatar
    Evelyn
    January 13, 2008 at 4:24 am

    I took the time to research the author of the article you posted for the members in this forum to read, and this is what I found.
    His name is Joseph Farah, he and his wife are the owners of World Net Daily the website that posted the article about NCLR. He is the author of all the articles on WND and puts out 1 article daily. These are some of the comments said about him and the link to view them.
    “Just another Conservative imposing his morality on others. As long as Farah’s endorsement of murder doesnt expand to anyone he thinks is in his way, I think we’re OK.”
    http://conwebwatch.tripod.com/outthere/otadultery.html
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    “Unethical, hypocritical liar”
    wrote book with Rush Limbaugh
    http://www.thebirdman.org/Index?NetLoss-Farah.html
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    “Farah’s godless vengeance, as the mouthpiece of the father of all lies, Satan. If we were honest we would recognize Farah and his demonic World Net Daily as Internet Hate Criminals, spewing venom and fire as he justifies his inhumanity as biblical justice”
    http://www.the7thfire.com/Politics%20%20History?sheeple_analyst/Righteous_Joe.htm
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    House Immigration Reform Caucuses with ties to FAIR also accept funding from the Ford Foundation And George Soros so your theory is wrong.

  • Avatar
    Frank
    January 13, 2008 at 9:10 pm

    No one is bashing Hispanics. Americans are just fed up with illegal aliens and it doesn’t matter what ethnicity they are. Stop making up lies and playing victim here. As I said, if anyone is not receiving basic human rights in this country, there is the ACLU and they will fight for ANYONE. No need for ethnic based groups with the ACLU around.

  • Avatar
    Texano78704
    January 14, 2008 at 10:08 am

    I see that Evelyn ably exposed your ‘op-ed’ piece for what it really is, pure tripe.
    What exactly are you calling “capitalism based on illegality?” Is not true, that under our system of government that capital can flow freely back and forth across our nation’s borders? Money does precisely that, reacting to economic need or “capitalistic pressure.” However, it would seem that you feel that if labor does the same thing, it is “capitalism based on illegality.”
    I did answer your question, even though you incorrectly stated that the undocumented workers are “mostly from one country.” Mostly implies something like 80 or 90%. Reality is much closer to 50%.
    As for your “analysis” of CIR, that only really touches on 2007. What happened to 2001 through 2006 when Republicans were in total control? As I recall, they waited until the very end of 2006 to pass a token measure that did not really do anything.
    “Americans are just fed up with illegal aliens and it doesn’t matter what ethnicity they are.”
    So you say. Reality would be much closer to “let’s have a comprehensive solution” and not “enforcement only.” There is a small minority that fuels this “fed up with illegals” rhetoric.

  • Avatar
    Frank
    January 14, 2008 at 2:55 pm

    Texano, the percentage of illegals from Mexico is much higher than 50%. I would post a source but what good would it do? You would just call it “tripe” anyway.
    I fail to see an analogy in your free flow of capital across our borders as the same thing as employers hiring illegal aliens in violation of our labor laws. What free capital are you talking about? Is there a violation of some law in what you are stating? If so, then all of the corruption needs to be dealt with.
    As far as congress not addressing illegal immigration prior to a couple of years ago, Americans weren’t as verbal about it as they are now. The numbers of illegals have reached critical mass now. I am sure that some of the fear derived from 9/11 and the possibility of people coming through our southern border from known terrorist countries right along with those just looking for work. In any case illegal immigration needed to be addressed. If it were up to me we would totally secure both of our borders, ports, etc. No matter which side of the issue you are on, our security as a nation should be a top priority to all Americans.

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    Frank
    January 14, 2008 at 4:03 pm

    Texano, here is some “tripe” for you. By the way in anyone’s math a majority makes up anything over 50%.
    In March of 2006 the Pew Hispanic Center estimated the undocumented population ranged from 11.5 to 12 million individuals[1], a number supported by the US Government Accountability Office (GAO)[2]. Pew estimated that 57% of this population comes from Mexico; 24% from Central America and, to a lesser extent, South America; 9% from Asia; 6% from Europe, and the remaining 4% from elsewhere.[3]
    Note: that also means that the majority of illegal aliens combined from Spanish speaking countries is a whopping 81%!

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    Evelyn
    January 15, 2008 at 1:06 am

    81%, imagine that, at least it wasent 100% like when the Europeans invaded!

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    EYES OF TEXAS
    January 15, 2008 at 7:55 am

    There’s that European invasion crap again. Some of these explorers, not invaders, came from Spain and became very up close and personal with the indigenous population of Central and South America. At the time you speak of, there were no immigration laws and the way of the world was to invade and conquer to increase the size of a nations empire. The Americas were a wide open piece of the world free for the taking by all European countries, including your ancestors, the Spanish Conquistadors.

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    Liquimicro
    January 15, 2008 at 10:08 am

    Evelyn states: Immigration proceedings are matters of administrative law, NOT CRIMINAL LAW. Undocumented Immigrants are NOT CRIMINALS even if entering the U.S. without proper documentation. Eyes is lying again, here is the proof.
    Under US CODE, Title 19, Chapter 4, Subtitle III, Part II, section 1459, it can be Criminal Law. See sub-section (e-g) below.
    (a) Individuals arriving other than by conveyance
    Except as otherwise authorized by the Secretary, individuals
    arriving in the United States other than by vessel, vehicle, or
    aircraft shall –
    (1) enter the United States only at a border crossing point
    designated by the Secretary; and
    (2) immediately –
    (A) report the arrival, and
    (B) present themselves, and all articles accompanying them
    for inspection to the customs officer at the customs facility designated for
    that crossing point.
    (b) Individuals arriving by reported conveyance
    Except as otherwise authorized by the Secretary, passengers and
    crew members aboard a conveyance the arrival in the United States
    of which was made or reported in accordance with section 1433 or
    1644 of this title or section 1644a(b)(1) or (c)(1) of this title,
    or in accordance with applicable regulations, shall remain aboard
    the conveyance until authorized to depart the conveyance by the
    appropriate customs officer. Upon departing the conveyance, the
    passengers and crew members shall immediately report to the
    designated customs facility with all articles accompanying them.
    (c) Individuals arriving by unreported conveyance
    Except as otherwise authorized by the Secretary, individuals
    aboard a conveyance the arrival in the United States of which was
    not made or reported in accordance with the laws or regulations
    referred to in subsection (b) of this section shall immediately
    notify a customs officer and report their arrival, together with
    appropriate information concerning the conveyance on or in which
    they arrived, and present their property for customs examination
    and inspection.
    (d) Departure from designated customs facilities
    Except as otherwise authorized by the Secretary, any person
    required to report to a designated customs facility under
    subsection (a), (b), or (c) of this section may not depart that
    facility until authorized to do so by the appropriate customs
    officer.
    (e) Unlawful acts
    It is unlawful –
    (1) to fail to comply with subsection (a), (b), or (c) of this
    section;
    (2) to present any forged, altered, or false document or paper
    to a customs officer under subsection (a), (b), or (c) of this
    section without revealing the facts;
    (3) to violate subsection (d) of this section; or
    (4) to fail to comply with, or violate, any regulation
    prescribed to carry out subsection (a), (b), (c), or (d) of this
    section.
    (f) Civil penalty
    Any individual who violates any provision of subsection (e) of
    this section is liable for a civil penalty of $5,000 for the first
    violation, and $10,000 for each subsequent violation.
    (g) Criminal penalty
    In addition to being liable for a civil penalty under subsection
    (f) of this section, any individual who intentionally violates any
    provision of subsection (e) of this section is, upon conviction,
    liable for a fine of not more than $5,000, or imprisonment for not
    more than 1 year, or both.
    How else do you think AZ can place ‘Illegal Immigrants’ into jail with no opposition?

  • Avatar
    Frank
    January 15, 2008 at 11:02 am

    My ancestors arrived here in the early 1900’s (legally) and in compliance with U.S. laws and well after the native indian wars and conflicts with the settlers and well after the U.S. was established as a soveriegn nation with borders.

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    EYES OF TEXAS
    January 15, 2008 at 11:04 am

    Lying about what? All I was stating is that until the Americas (North, Central and South) were established as individual countries, there were no immigration laws. The European nations were expanding their empires and this entire continent was up for grabs. No lie.

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    Texano78704
    January 15, 2008 at 1:31 pm

    “By the way in anyone’s math a majority makes up anything over 50%.”
    Hey, I’m not the one who was making stuff up here. You claimed, and I quote:
    “I see you didn’t answer my question of what do you think will happen if we allow this illegal entry of people from mostly one country to continue?”
    Now I did assume you were talking about Mexico. I pointed out that “mostly” does not mean the same as “majority.” In my opinion, 57% does not qualify as “most,” but it does as “majority.” Now you did do a good job of squirming it around into “Spanish speaking countries,” but your bias is showing…
    “What free capital are you talking about?”
    Maybe I’m a little verbose, but re-read my post and maybe it will sink in.

  • Avatar
    Frank
    January 15, 2008 at 5:54 pm

    Majority and most mean the same thing. Even without the other 24% of like culture and language, Mexicans still make up 57% of illegals aka most/majority. How can facts be biased? 81% of illegals are from Latin American countries. Are you denying the statistics of the Pew Hispanic Center now?

  • Avatar
    Texano78704
    January 15, 2008 at 7:40 pm

    No, I’m saying your calling it an “invasion” is a hysterical characterization, in more ways than one.

  • Avatar
    Evelyn
    January 15, 2008 at 11:04 pm

    The only invasion of America in history books is the one the Europeans executed, and many of their descendants tend to forget or try to whitewash by calling it migration! LOL!

  • Avatar
    Frank
    January 16, 2008 at 9:17 am

    Hysterical? I would call the illegal entry into ANY country by millions an invasion. But why does terminology bother you so much anyway? The legal term for those entering our country illegally is “illegal alien” but you seem to think it alright to twist it into “undocumented worker” or immigrant” instead. So don’t talk to me about “incorrect” terminology.
    I can’t speak for everyone’s ancestors but mine came here in the early 1900’s in accordance with U.S. law at the time. They weren’t involved in any settler/native indian conflicts. They didn’t invade this country. But if they had, they wouldn’t have my blessing over it. On the other hand, no one should be held accountable for their ancestors actions or be forced to accept millions of illegals entering the country that they were born in, in violation of TODAY’S immigration laws.

  • Avatar
    Frank
    January 16, 2008 at 9:23 am

    If we are going to go the route of making people alive today responsible for their ancestors sins, doesn’t that mean that those of Spanish ancestry should be held accountable for the atrocities of their Spanish ancestors too? It is BS to try and say that the native indians were ALL raped by the Spaniards too and that there were no love relationships. It doesn’t matter anyway, we cannot change or deny our genetics no matter how they were acquired.

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    EYES OF TEXAS
    January 16, 2008 at 10:14 am

    If the swarm coming across our southern border were all dressed in the same uniform, the invasion would be obvious. But since they are not, it’s just a mass migration of people looking for work. As for the Europeans, including the Spanish, they came here prior to any immigration laws and prior to the U.S. having a population of 300 million. Besides, continually bringing up the ancient past has no bearing on the issues at hand. Things are as they are and there is no turning back to change anything, so get use to it.

  • Avatar
    Alessandra
    January 16, 2008 at 3:15 pm

    Evelyn, you keep accusing others’ ancestors of “murder, rape, genocide” and other atrocities. First of all, how do you know what anyone’s ancestors were guilty of or not? Where is your proof that Frank’s ancestors or any one else’s on this blog were guity of anything? You don’t have any.
    What you are doing is applying a collective guilt to a certain group of people here on the sole basis of their race. Someone could have immigrated from Holland 10 years ago and you would be here accusing “their ancestors” of wrongdoing. Can you see what faulty reasoning that is? You could be accusing a person’s ancestors of all kinds of atrocities when the exact opposite might be true! For example, the abolitionist movement was LED by white Christian organizations. You are condemning not only an entire race of people, but all of their ancestors, and probably generations to come. That is wrong and will only lead to more division, not healing and unity. Human nature being what it is, people will only wear sack cloth and ashes for so long, and then the worm turns.
    You are also making the mistake of applying a 15th century (or 16th, 17th, 18th) ethos to the modern day. I am sure you realize that. The Mongols swept over Europe centuries ago and almost conquered the entire continent. They were brutal. How do you think the Middle East, which was previously Jewish, Christian, and animist became mostly Muslim within a century? The were conquered by the sword! You attempt to apply the same ethics and standards of 1,000, 500, or even 150 years ago and forward them up to the present day and use them as an arguing point against people who not only did not have anything to do with these events, but possibly whose ancestors had NOT YET EVEN SET FOOT on this land when these events occurred.
    If you want to go down this road, then all of the tribes which were captured, enslaved, used in grizzly ceremonies, tortured, killed, and cannibalized by the Aztecs should have an axe to grind with their descendants also; these tribes so despised the Aztecs that they allied themselves with the Spanish to defeat the Aztecs. The same for the Northern first peoples whose tribes were routinely raided and whose members were killed by the indigenous tribes South of the Rio Grande. The tribes themselves warred and committed atrocities against one another long before the settlers ever thought about this land. So, please, let’s not keep going there. There is not ONE GROUP IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND which has not committed some atrocity, conquered or been conquered at some point. It is the history of mankind.
    You can wallow in your resentment and hatred of “Europeans” as much as you want. The fact is that those of European descent, in particular Anglos, established this nation with its Constitution, Bill of Rights, economic, political, and legal system. It was developed into a modern, prosperous nation which millions of people are trying to sneak into, not out of. They are coming here because there is opportunity here which they could not find in their own lands.
    We are living in the here and now. Nobody outside of the far left Marxist/Socialists agree with applying this “collective guilt.” In fact, they are instructed to “rub raw the sores of discontent” to achieve their political objective. That is what all of the “victim” mongering is all about.
    If you want to fight for what you feel is justice for illegals, stick to the here and now. There are some legitimate arguments for amnesty which can be applied. Getting into your time machine and applying faulty logic to a present day issue is not going to influence anyone outside of a fringe group of far left activists and ethnocentrics and may in fact turn those who are on the fence away from your position.
    In addition, it indicates that your motives have more to do with “revenge and pay-back” than they do with simple compassion, justice, or concern for the well-being of this nation and its citizens.

  • Avatar
    Evelyn
    January 16, 2008 at 8:07 pm

    To Frank and Eyes, the answer to your meek efforts can be found in the first thread of this forum! No use in printing it twice,

  • Avatar
    Liquidmicro
    January 17, 2008 at 8:48 am

    Well said and nicely put, Alessandra.

  • Avatar
    Frank
    January 17, 2008 at 2:22 pm

    Ditto, Alessandra.

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