LatinaLista — The Republican presidential candidates are probably breathing a sigh of relief now that the Univision forum in Miami-Dade County is done.
Republican presidential candidates gather before the start of the Univision Forum.
(Source: Univision)
Yet, unlike the Democratic forum, this one underscored the “elephant in the living room” issue that exists within the Latino community and that nobody likes to address — there is a fundamental political difference between Cubans and the rest of the Latino electorate.
It’s common knowledge that among all the Latino subgroups, Cubans are predominantly Republican.
And while over 60% of the Miami-Dade County area is comprised of Latinos, the majority are Cuban.
Yet, Cubans make up only 3.5% of the total Latino population — Latinos of Mexican descent garner 64% of the Latino population.
And it’s Mexicans and other South American subgroups who are the targets of the anti-immigrant measures in Congress and across the country.
So, it was interesting to see in the Univision forum how questions relating to illegal immigration didn’t illicit the same intense boos and applause as questions about Fidel Castro and Hugo Chavez.
In essence, the Miami-area venue for this forum was “safe” territory for the Republican candidates since the major issues of this presidential race that are fueling anti-Hispanic rhetoric and sentiments across the rest of the nation aren’t nearly the same in the Miami area as in Los Angeles, Chicago, Phoenix, Houston, Oklahoma City, etc.
Mexicans are the majority of undocumented workers in the United States. But in Miami-Dade County, people who come from Mexico make up only four percent of Hispanics, according to the annual census update in 2004. Cubans are still the largest Hispanic group in Miami-Dade, and they see the immigration fight through their own lens, focusing most of their attention on the Cuban Adjustment Act that enables them to apply for a green card after more than a year in the country. That rankles many Haitians who feel that they, like Cubans, are fleeing a repressive regime, yet they are turned away if they try to enter the United States without papers. Bumper stickers on some cars in Miami read: Equal treatment for Haitians. And even though at least two Haitian groups supported the national job strike (when immigrants would stay home from work for a day), the fear of job loss led some to keep their support private.
All of this adds up to Miami being a place where people generally support the idea of immigration reform — there has been no organized opposition — but they aren’t moved enough by the issues to march in the streets.
For this appearance by Republican candidates to resonate with the Latinos, who are most impacted by what is happening in this country and the targets of anti-immigrant measures, it should have been held in a city where the issues of illegal immigration, border security and separation of families resonate on a higher personal level.
For now, the Republicans got a pass on facing the Latino community on the hard issues that resonate with the majority.
But the race is only beginning.
Comment(41)
Still Notoriuos - Still VC
And it’s Mexicans and other South American subgroups who are the targets of the anti-immigrant measures in Congress and across the country.
Actully, Centram would be more apt; although, I have seen at least two Peruvians being treated like Meso-Americans so I wouldnt entirely disagree.
My dad’s parents were from Madrid. They emigrated to Monterrey, NL MX and they never referred to themselves as “Latinos.” In Europe, the Portuguese, Spanish and Italians do not consider themselves “Latino.” This is because they know who they are and they know their identity.
The French occupied Southern Europe as well, but the “Latino” label didn’t “take.”
“Latino” is a French concoction that was imposed on Africans and the indigenous peoples of the Americas. Mexico removed the French after just 6 years of occupation. But you still see Brazilians, Mexicans et al referring to themselves as “Latinos.”
This is how powerful the French ethnocide of Africans and the indigenous was.
Cubans in the U.S. are generally white Europeans. Most of them came after the Cuban revolution. Castro didnt want them around causing trouble since most were middle class. However, middle class in Cuba is like the poverty level in the U.S. at that time, of course.
So they jumped on the chance to leave Cuba and come to the U.S. and they could blame it on Castro at the same time. It was a win – win situation.
But the point is that these are “white” people.
Undocumented migrants are not white. They are for the most part – Meso-Americans. mostly from MX and Centram.
To call Meso-americans “Latinos” is an insult. But then again, you yourself, Marisa, have referred to them as “illegals.”
Not to quibble about pejorative nouns, I’d just like to make the point that Meso-Americans need to be represented by Meso-americans and not by Spanish speaking whites.
Do you think Cubans want Meso-Americans Speaking for them?
Let the Republicans have the Cubans. Their (voting) block is marginal at best.
Meanwhile, please follow this link:
http://www.nahj.org/nahjnews/articles/2006/March/immigrationcoverage.shtml
Frank
What anti-immigrant measures in congress? I thought it was about illegal immigration from any country. What anti-Hispanic sentiments? What seperation of families is our government responsble for? I think the truth should be spoken here. Lies don’t make for a good argument.
Frank
Still notorious, the Mexicans and Mexico today are mostly mestizos. A combination of native indian and White European Spaniard. They mostly speak the White European language of Spanish.
Evelyn
Frank, the following link will provide you with a complete list of anti-immigrant measures in congress, past and present.
http://www.buildingdemocracy.org
This link also provides information about congressmen & women, who have direct ties to anti-immigrant groups that support virulent rhetoric against
immigrants, especially Hispanics. This list captures some of the most offensive rhetoric being propagated, and endorsed, by anti- immigrant groups and their supporters on TV and radio.
The separation of families the gov. is responsible for, are the same terrorist tactics, and raids used in countries like Hitler’s Germany, or Saddam Hussein’s Iraq.
Americans have shed blood, and given their lives to stop other countries from terrorizing people in this manner.
Yet it is perfectly acceptable to violate humane rights of immigrants, especially Hispanics, and their American family members, by busting down doors in the middle of the night, arresting mothers, and fathers, separating them from their American children and other family members, because congress refuses to do their job. Congress needs to leave their cowardliness behind, stop listening to Lou Dobbs, and the racist groups he has spawned, and listen to the experts who have done studies on immigration issues.
Congress needs to follow the constitution that gives all people within the borders of the U.S. equal rights, and pass a law that would give today’s immigrants the same rights given to 28 million immigrants from Europe who came before them.
Or, violate the constitution and send all immigrants back to their home countries, which would include 14% of the workforce in America, and would collapse the economy.
Those are the choices, either way the immigrants and their families, should not be left to live in limbo and fear.
Some of you might say, they shouldn’t have come here, or why don’t they fix their own country.
My question is why didn’t the European Immigrants do the same things.
I have seen the adds, and listened to the radio spots in Mexico,
being used by American companies aggressively recruiting and begging Mexicans for their labor, by luring them with bonuses, ($500. to leave for their families) and perks
(free transportation to job site, and to and from work every day, free room and board for 2 weeks).
The U.S. gov. has turned Mexico and other South American countries into third world dumps, by propelling corrupt leaders into positions where they can sell national resources, and pocket the prophets. Also enacting treaties like NAFTA make Mexico more poor and give Americans access to products that cost less and benefit corp. America.
http://www.ailf.org/ipc_index.asp
or Immigration Policy Center
WTF
Excuse me, Mexico is NOT a third world dump.
Also enacting treaties like NAFTA make Mexico more poor and give Americans access to products that cost less and benefit corp. America.
I’ll agree that NAFTA has been devastating for Mexico’s poorest people. However, the economy has grown every year since NAFTA at about a 4-5 % rate.
Please do not misunderstand me, I’d like to see NAFTA dumped and the return to the old “ejido” system.
Frank
Evelyn, I don’t really care about any radical groups in this country. They are among the minority of Americans opposed to illegal immigration perhaps with a racist agenda. It is the majority that count and the majority are not racists. We also are quite capable of thinking for ourselves without being persuaded by journalists. The rule of law is all the argument we need.
I don’t care about any so-called anti-immigrant policies of the past either. There are none today and that’s all that matters. There are anti-illegal alien policies of which any real American should support because we have immigration laws.
So if I break a law and I have to go to jail for it, should I protest because it will separate me from my family? Follow the laws and there will be no problem. You have heard of personal responsiblity haven’t you? What about all those illegals who leave their families behind in their native countries by their own choice to come here?
Illegal aliens only make up 7% of our workforce, not 14%. The money we will save in not having to provide them with their health, education, etc. needs vs any taxes they pay will create billions in surplus money for us. Lets factor in a normal population growth into that vs uncontrolled population growth and there you have another postive. More natural resources, less crowded schools, jails, hospitals, housing, roads.
I can’t answer your question as to why European immigrants didn’t stay home and fix their own countries. I am not them. They are all dead. Should I have to answer for them or be accountable for them? For one thing most of them came here legally, not illegally.
I do not care about any corrupt businesses who supposedly lured illegal aliens to come here either. They don’t represent the American people and they had no right to do that. Were the illegals dragged over here? There is that personal responsibility thing again that you choose to ignore.
You seem to expect that we normal, regular, everyday law-abiding Americans should just roll over and accept the consequences of our corrupt government’s actions or inactions by giving our country away? NOPE! We will not and we will kick the bums out of office, ASAP!
EYES OF TEXAS
The Presidential race is just beginning, and the futher along it goes the more the candidates will begin bending to the demands of American voters against illegal immigration and those for securing our borders. We, the people, will not stand by and watch our nation be turned into another third-world country like Mexico. If these politicians know nothing else, they do know who still carries the most weight at the election booths. There’s no doubt in my mind that Hillary, nor Obama, will be heading for the White House and God forbid any other Democrap that will guide our nation into socialism.
Soda Stereo
The Presidential race is just beginning, and the futher along it goes the more the candidates will begin bending to the demands of American voters against illegal immigration and those for securing our borders. We, the people, will not stand by and watch our nation be turned into another third-world country like Mexico. If these politicians know nothing else, they do know who still carries the most weight at the election booths. There’s no doubt in my mind that Hillary, nor Obama, will be heading for the White House and God forbid any other Democrap that will guide our nation into socialism.
Hmm, now that I’ve finished laughing at this post I’d like to make a few things clear.
1, We, the people, LoL, do not elect the President of the U.S. This is done by the electoral college, reason being is that the framers of the U.S. constitution didnt trust the average man.
2, Unemployment insurance, disability, SSI are all “socialist” programmes and have served the American people quite well.
3, Mexico is not a 3rd world country. Last time I checked was when fox gave a speech to the California state Legislature (2006?)… he stated at that time that Mexico was now the 7th largest economy in the world, up from #8.
4, while it is true that people are required to vote in order to give at least the illusion of democracy, most of the people that do vote do not vote in their own interest but in the interest of neo-con corporations, since it is they who control the media.
Lastly, I suggest this poster learn the ENGLISH language.
and second to the lastly hehehe
VIVA MEXICO CABRONES!
Horace
Marisa and crew are just blowing smoke. If the U.S. wasn’t acting well within its rights and within international legal bounds to check illegal immigration by arrests, detentions and deportations, those SOB’s from the ACLU, MALDEF, PLDF, SPLC, ILA and the rest of the alphabet soup of supporters of illegal aliens would have had us before the World Court. The measure of how we’re doing in the realm of human rights is also indicated by the fact that no international legal venue has taken Mexico seriously in its claims of U.S. abuse. If your correct in your assertions, Marisa, wouldn’t you have more than the aforementioned self-serving agents of Mexico on your side?
Evelyn
I sure hope our next president is not a
RepubliKLAN!
Horace
Yes,
On the other hand, Evelyn, we’ll have the opportunity to elect an ass!
Evelyn
If you are opposed to radical groups, why do you support their views?
you speak of the rule of law in a country with a president who brakes at least 2 laws every month. A country that consumes 80% of the illegal drugs in the world.
This country has more law breakers incarcerated than any other in the world. we are waging an illegal war with a country that we illegally invaded. We set up the United Nations for all nations to abide by certain laws, and now choose to ignore those laws. Americans break laws everyday,
speeding, drunk driving, double parking, jay walking, etc.
Americans have no respect for the law.
Your argument about rule of law is not valid, only an excuse to justify your views, and it’s full of holes. Every one agrees that Immigration laws as they stand today cannot be enforced, and will do nothing about the immigrants already here, as it is impossible to deport 12 million Immigrants. I wonder how can a law that cant be enforced be broken, because that law is what is broken.
Many Immigrants have followed the law and still have problems because the laws in place are broken.
Those immigrants who leave their countries to come here to put out the fire in the bellies of their families caused by hunger, because the U.S. gov has sucked their countries dry, are HEROES! Or would you suggest they let their families die of starvation, because of our greed!
I gave you a link to the contributions today’s Immigrants make to this country, the fact that you choose to ignore them is your problem, so I will leave that up to you.
You say Immigrants from Europe came here legally? Here is a link to the descendants of the people who were the original inhabitants of this country, they don’t agree with you , and neither do the history books that haven’t been whitewashed. Yes I do think people or nations should accept responsibility for their actions or inaction and accept the consequences of their actions. In this case ignoring the broken immigration laws, and not fixing them.
Especially, because as you so viemently point out, WE ARE A NATION OF LAWS!
By the way, the people are the gov.
http://cacreview.blogspot.com/2006/06/reclamation-of-indigenous-continent.html
Evelyn
WTF
The expression “third world dump”, in reference to Mexico and other South American countries, was not coined by me.
That is the phrase used by people against Mexican Immigrants, and Hispanics in general.
I spend every summer in Mexico, teaching and learning. Some day I plan to retire their. That is why I am so passionate about their plight.
I believe, if I must teach my students that this country treats everyone with justice, equality, and liberty, and shows compassion and care for others, than this country must live up to that standard. I believe using lies to promote hate against a group of people you don’t like is despicable.
Frank
soda,
1. You are correct but usually the electoral college reflects the results of the majority vote.
2. Yes, all of those benefits do help a person in need but they shouldn’t be abused and they certainly shouldn’t go to illegal aliens.
3. If Mexico and it’s economy are so great, then why do we have millions of their citizens jumping our borders illegally?
4.You are totally wrong on this one.
5.Anyone who attacks someone’s spelling and grammar in a debate does so because they have no valid arguments of their own. If you didn’t understand what they said, then you wouldn’t have been able to respond to them, right?
6. Yes, Viva Mexico. If you are a Mexican living in the U.S.illegally, I suggest you go back there.
Evelyn, I just hope we elect a president next year who gets serious about securing our borders and deporting illegal aliens and I don’t care what their party affiliation is.
w00t!
I spend every summer in Mexico, teaching and learning. Some day I plan to retire their. That is why I am so passionate about their plight.
I believe, if I must teach my students that this country treats everyone with justice, equality, and liberty, and shows compassion and care for others, than this country must live up to that standard. I believe using lies to promote hate against a group of people you don’t like is despicable.
it’s THERE, not their. and it’s THEN, not than.
…this country treats everyone with justice, equality, and liberty, and shows compassion and care for others…
oh, youre a comedian, haha i get it, i thought you said teacher.lol.
Evelyn
Dream on…Frank
Horace I didn’t realize you were running for president!
Cuauhtlatoahtzin
Horace I didn’t realize you were running for president!
Well, I gotta give you credit for not putting my name in there LoL
😉
Paz.
Daniel
Frank
Evelyn, I can’t believe that since we have our own law breakers in this country that you think that justifies an illegal invasion of our country. Are you kidding me? Most Americans do follow our laws. The laws were made by our government, not our own law breakers. The rational of the pro-illegals never ceases to amaze me.
We can’t be resonsible for the whole world’s poor. We would be committing national suicide in doing so. We have a right to sovereingn border and an immigration policy that allows a certain number of legal immigrants in each year.
What radical groups are most non-racist, law abiding Americans supporting? The “rule of law” argument is just an excuse? Gee, doesn’t it stand on it’s own merit? An excuse for what? Why would any nation want to see millions and millions of illegal aliens flooding across it’s borders?
Our immigraton laws are not broken, they just haven’t been enforced effectively because of corporate greed and our government winking and nodding. We have had enough of this crap. We real Americans are taking our country back.
How dare you accuse this country of not being compassionate. We take in more legal immigrants than any other country in the world. Immigrants both legal and illegal are afforded basic human rights. But it is silly to put them on the same plane as a citizen. There is no hate against a certain group of people. I wonderded how long it would take you to pull the race card. You pro-illegals always do. We are opposed to ALL illegal aliens.
Harry Torta
Evelyn, I can’t believe that since we have our own law breakers in this country that you think that justifies an illegal invasion of our country. Are you kidding me? Most Americans do follow our laws. The laws were made by our government, not our own law breakers. The rational of the pro-illegals never ceases to amaze me.
We can’t be resonsible for the whole world’s poor. We would be committing national suicide in doing so. We have a right to sovereingn border and an immigration policy that allows a certain number of legal immigrants in each year.
What radical groups are most non-racist, law abiding Americans supporting? The “rule of law” argument is just an excuse? Gee, doesn’t it stand on it’s own merit? An excuse for what? Why would any nation want to see millions and millions of illegal aliens flooding across it’s borders?
Our immigraton laws are not broken, they just haven’t been enforced effectively because of corporate greed and our government winking and nodding. We have had enough of this crap. We real Americans are taking our country back.
How dare you accuse this country of not being compassionate. We take in more legal immigrants than any other country in the world. Immigrants both legal and illegal are afforded basic human rights. But it is silly to put them on the same plane as a citizen. There is no hate against a certain group of people. I wonderded how long it would take you to pull the race card. You pro-illegals always do. We are opposed to ALL illegal aliens.
YAWN! Such a boring, tired heap of crap.
Immigration, as a topic, is DOA.
Regardless of who wins the election, nothing will change our destiny.
In fact, if I were bitching about eeleegauls, I’d be toning it down right about now.
I, for one, am not going to forget how shitty whitetrash has been acting towards my people these last few years.
Evelyn
wOOt!
Thanks for the correction. I looked for the statement where I said I was GOD and PERFECT, and couldn’t find it.
If you think I lied, that is your right, but you really should surround yourself with people you can trust, instead of those who lie and make you feel you constantly have to watch your back. This is just a suggestion, but i’m sure it will take care of your problem.
Frank
Harry, and just what is your destiny? Why do you stereotype white people? That is very racist. There are racists in every ethnic/racial group.
Who are “your” people? Illegal aliens? Most white people don’t hate other citizens regardless of their racial makeup. Those here illegally have earned the hatred of ALL Americans or at least
those who honor our laws and don’t have their own racist, ethnocentric agenda.
We real Americans will not be toning down our opposition to illegal immigration in this country, why should we? It is against the law. No idle threats are going to stop us from taking our country back and you can take that to the bank, amigo.
C L
Today’s immigrants are not different from other immigrants who have arrived here in the past. Throughout the 1800s, there was a huge wave of immigrants from Southern and Eastern Europe, Italians, Polish, Russsians, Jews, who arrived on our shores with no knowledge of English. These newcomers encountered the same racist nativist bullshit that is being heard today. It is estimated that four million Italians and three million Slavs arrived during that time. More than two million Jews also emigrated to the US. These people were poor and illiterate. They could not read or write in their own language, much less in English. Germans and English also arrived in the millions to escape political instability and food shortages in their countries. Newspapers of the day decried that arrival of these aliens and condemned the corrupt governments who sent these people to the shores of the United States.
Riots erupted in opposition to the presence of these immigrants. Just like in the previous century, when Germans were accused by Anglos of being the cause of all ills in society, immigrants were scapegoated.
The Irish fled Ireland starting in the 1840s to escape the deadly potato famine. Millions of Irish arrived to the American continent, almost a third of North America’s immigrants. They were escaping political corruption and certain starvation in their country.
Most immigrants came for economic reasons and were part of extensive migratory systems that responded to changing demands in labor markets. The American economy had needed both unskilled and skilled workers through much of the nineteenth century. But after the 1880s, the demand was almost exclusively for unskilled workers to fill the growing number of factory jobs. More than five million immigrants came to the US during the 1880s alone. Southern and eastern Europeans, dislocated from their land and possessing few skills, were attracted to the burgeoning industries in the United States.
Like today’s Latino immigrants, Italian immigrants were particularly likely to take heavy construction jobs after arrival in the US. About half of all late 19th century Italian immigrants were manual laborers. Contracted out by a professional labor broker known as a “Padrone,†Italians dug tunnels, laid railroad tracks, constructed bridges and roads. They were mostly young, single, and had little money. The Irish immigrants had few technical skills, and their agricultural skills were limited to the spade-culture of potatoes and animal tending. They were half-starved, weak and destitute. A New York Times Editorial, June 2, 1874, urged the US government to turn a million Italian beggars into prosperous citizens.
Too poor to leave Ireland when the Potato famine began, families found passage on overcrowded, fever-ridden ships after unscrupulous businessmen discovered they could make money transporting desperate people to the US. On these “coffin ships,” as they came to be known, many of them died during or just after the trip, but they had no choice but to leave for a better future or to starve to death in their own countries. These aliens had no skills, no tools, no education. Sometimes immigrant men had to be supported by their wives and daughters who worked as domestic servants in hotels and private homes, while they themselves worked sporadically sweeping streets, tending horses, cleaning stables, cutting fish, and performing any other menial work they could find.
The Italians immigrants were escaping poverty from their country, unemployment, high mortality, no medical care, little or no schooling, poor housing, semi-starvation, and exploitation. The majority of immigrants around the turn of the century were males who worked and saved money to send back to their families back home. Shipping companies made large profits by carrying immigrant aliens to the United States. They would bring cotton, wood, and crop cargoes to Europe and on the return trip bring immigrants to the US. There was hardly a city of any size in US that did not have a section designated as “Little Italy.†Italians would look to settle in these areas, for it was here that they felt free from the discrimination around them. This resulted in the formation of very definite ethnic communities: Irish, Polish and Jewish ethnic enclaves developed.
The majority of these European aliens entered the country illegally. For this reason, in 1891, Congress passed a law stating that those who had entered the country illegally could be expelled within one year. See Reports of the Immigration Commission (61 Cong., 3 Sess., Senate Doc. No. 758.) However, these aliens simply got off the boats, declared themselves to be American, and blended with the larger society.
By blaming immigrants for all the problems in their cities, politicians hoped to easily win election to office. In 1884 US congressmen decried that Italy and Hungary were shipping “as many cattle, large number of degraded, ignorant, brutal foreign serfs†to replace American citizens.
The racist media, which has always been the main conduct of anti-immigrant propaganda, proclaimed:
“These people are not Americans, but the very scum and offal of Europe…an invasion of venomous reptiles…long-haired, wild-eyes, bad-smelling, atheistic, reckless foreign wretches, who never did an honest hour’s work in their lives..crush such snakes…before they have time to bite.†See Public Opinion, I (1886), 82-86, iii (1887), 49 and V (1888), 432.
In 1882, the New York Tribune spoke against Jewish immigrants: “Numerous complaints have been made in regard to the Hebrew immigrants who lounge about Battery Park, obstructing the walks and sitting on the chains. Their filthy condition has caused many of the people who are accustomed to go to the park to seek a little recreation and fresh air to give up this practice. The immigrants also greatly annoy the persons who cross the park to take the boats to Coney Island, Staten Island and Brooklyn. The police have had many battles with these newcomers, who seem determined to have their own way.â€
The Chinese immigrants also arrived, but they experienced more direct discrimination because of their non-European origins. There were numerous riots against Chinese miners in California in the mid 1800s. In 1885, the population of Eureka drove all the Chinese out of Humboldt county by threat of force. In 1885, there were anti-Chinese riots in Rock Springs, Wyoming. An Arizona newspaper editorialized against the Chinese immigrants who sent money back to their families: “The Chinese are the least desired immigrants who have ever sought the United States…the almond-eyed Mongolian with his pig-tail, his heathenism, his filthy habits, his thrift and careful accumulation of savings to be sent back to the flowery kingdom.â€
The Montanian newspaper in 1873 editorialized against the Chinese: “We don’t mind hearing of a Chinaman being killed now and then, but it has been coming too thick of late…Don’t kill them unless they deserve it, but when they do–why kill’em lots.†In 1869, Montana governor James M. Ashley advocated†…Montana is better adopted to the hardy races of men and women from Great Britain and Northern Europe…†The Chinatowns that sprang up in cities like San Francisco and New York was a defense mechanism against the hatred and prejudice of the society around them. According to the racist newspaper editorials of the time, “The manners and habits of the Chinese are very repugnant to Americans in California. Of different language, blood, religion, and character, inferior in most mental and bodily qualities, the Chinaman is looked upon by some as only a little superior to the Negro, and by others as somewhat inferior. See Frank Soule, John H. Gihon, and James Nisbet, The Annals of San Franciso (1966).
Anti-Chinese riots occurred in San Francisco in 1869, and in Los Angeles in Chinatown, when whites descended on the area and burned and looted businesses, beat the Chinese , and killed at least 19 Chinese during four hours. See “Chinese Massacre at Los Angeles in 1871,†Annual Publication of the Historical Society of Southern California (Los Angeles, 1894), C.P. Dorland. In 1877, a similar even took place in San Francisco when whites attacked the Chinese ghetto in San Francisco. In the California Constitution, Article XIX was added in 1879, which forbade employment of any Chinese in any public work and allowed any city to expel its Chinese residents. In the 1850s, the California’s Supreme Court stated that Chinese were Indians, and similarly as with Mexicans, they could not testify in court against a white man.
Between 1820 and 1890, fifteen million people immigrated to the US, 2/3s of them from Germany, Ireland and Great Britain. The majority of the British immigrants were paupers.
It was during this period that the Know-Nothing organizations were created in response to the arrival of these new immigrants who were considered different from “true Americans”. Immigrants were often lynched by mobs. Riots were common throughout the nation to protest the arrival of these undesirables. Irish immigrants were considered by nativists to be lazy drunks. Poles, Italians and Jews were considered to be racially inferior and to be detrimental to America society.
The Know Nothing Party feared the arrival of Catholic Irish. They advocated banning immigrants from holding office, and a 21-year wait for citizenship. They used criminal statistics to show that Irish were the group with the greatest number of arrest in cities like New York. Eugenicists like Edward Jarvis published studies that indicated that immigrants had higher rates of mental disorders.
In the early 1850s the anti-Catholic Native American Party was established to attack the foreign religious elements of the German and Irish. Convents were burned, priests were driven from their pulpits.
Nativists blamed Catholics for unemployment by stating that Papal agents had unleashed millions of Italians on American soil to take away the jobs from native Americans. They stated that Catholics had started a run on banks to prepare the way for the seizure of the US government by Italy’s Pope. They fabricated a document “Instructions to Catholicsâ€, which detailed a conspiracy by Catholics to control the American workplace. See Washington Gladden, “The Anti-Catholic Crusadeâ€, Century Magazine, XLVII (1894), 790.
In 1855, German immigrants, who were routinely persecuted, were involved in deadly riots against Know Nothings in Cincinnati, Columbus and Louisville.
These immigrants were accused by the larger society of refusing to assimilate. Little Italys and Irelands could be found in major cities like Hartford, New Haven, Waterbury, and New Britain, where they were sealed off from the wider American society. New Haven’s Italian colony centered around Wooster Square. It was at first a neighborhood for the Irish. There were many large mansions in the area. However, after the Civil War, industry began flourishing and factories moved into the area. Landlords turned the remaining homes into multiple dwellings which became overcrowded and neglected.
In The Children of Columbus by Erik Amfitheatrof, he describes the worst of the padroni as “flesh peddlers” who recruited peasants from southern Italy, stuck dozens of people in disgusting tenements and took over 60% of their pay as their commission. Jacob Riis, an immigrant, described the horrors of these tenements in his book How The Other Half Lives. He reports “one room 12×12 with five families living in it, comprising twenty persons of both sexes and all ages, with only two beds, without partitions, screen, chair or table.” In New Orleans in the 1800s, many Sicilians had settled in this area and were employed as fishermen or farmers. Italians were generally stereotyped as mafioso criminals. In 1891, the police chief had been investigating reports of what he considered to be mafia activity in the city. He was assassinated by unknown assailants and the backlash against the Italian community was hysterically racist. Suspicion fell on the Italians in the community and ten were arrested and put on trial for the crime. The mayor of the city had made an announcement to the press that “We must teach these people a lesson they will not forget for all time.” All ten of the men were acquitted. However, after the verdict, a mob of 5,000 angry New Orleaneans stormed the jail and shot the men to death in their cells.
In “Restriction of Immigration”(Atlantic Monthly, June, 1896) Francis A. Walker warned that vast inpourings of southern European immigrants threatened to overwhelm and thereby degrade American culture and institutions.
According to Walker “for nearly two generations, great numbers of persons utterly unable to earn their living, by reason of one or another form of physical or mental disability, and others who were, from widely different causes, unfit to be members of any decent community, were admitted to our ports without challenge or question. It is a matter of official record that in many cases these persons had been directly shipped to us by states or municipalities desiring to rid themselves of a burden and a nuisance…while yet the patriotic American of to-day may properly shrink in terror from the contemplation of the vast hordes of ignorant and brutalized peasantry thronging to our shores…The arrival in the United States, between 1830 and 1840, and thereafter increasingly, of large numbers of degraded peasantry created for the first time in this country distinct social classes, and produced an alteration of economic relations which could not fail powerfully to affect population. The appearance of vast numbers of men, foreign in birth and often in language, with a poorer standard of living, with habits repellent to our native people, of an industrial grade suited only to the lowest kind of manual labor, was exactly such a cause as by any student of population would be expected to affect profoundly the growth of the native population. Americans shrank alike from the social contact and the economic competition thus created. They became increasingly unwilling to bring forth sons and daughters who should be obliged to compete in the market for labor and in the walks of life with those whom they did not recognize as of their own grade and condition. It has been said by some that during this time habits of luxury were entering, to reduce both the disposition and the ability to increase among our own population. In some small degree, in some restricted localities, this undoubtedly was the case; but prior to 1860 there was no such general growth of luxury in the United States as is competent to account for the effect seen. Indeed, I believe this was almost wholly due to the cause which has been indicated,–a cause recognized by every student of statistics and economics.”
According to a 1911 study of the US Immigration Commission, the new immigrants “…has been largely a movement of unskilled laboring men who have come from the less progressive countries of Europe…They have…congregated together in sections apart from native Americans and the older immigrants to such an extent that assimilation has been slow.” Citing from the racist book The Passing of the Great Race, a book by Madison Grant, the Commission stated: “The new immigration contained a large and increasing number of the weak, the broken, and the mentally crippled of all races drawn from the lowest stratum of the Meditarranean basin and the Balkans, together with hordes of the wretched, submerged populations of the Polish ghettoes. Our jails, insane asylums, and almshouses are filled with human flotsam and the whole tone of American life, social, moral, and political, has been lowered and vulgarized by them.”
European Immigration to the US:
1841-50: 1.6 million
1851-60: 2.5 million
1861-70: 2.1 million
1871-80: 2.3 million
1881-90: 4.7 million
1891-900: 3.6 million
1901-1910: 8.1 million
1911-20: 4.3 million
1921-30: 2.5 million
Dr. Larry Laughlin, appointed as consultant to the House Committee on Immigration and Naturalization in 1922, provided support to the anti-immigrant propaganda, by stating in testimony to congress that Italians, Slovaks, Russian and Polish Jews had three times the insanity rate of American natives.
Today, about 11 percent of U.S. residents are foreign-born, far short of the 14.7 percent who were foreign-born in 1910.
C L
Just as people in the US fought for Independence from England, Mexicans started their war for independence from Spain in 1810 and achieved it in 1821.
After independence, the formerly Spanish territories were under Mexican control. Mexico forbid Anglo immigration.
Whites consistently broke Mexican law when they illegally invaded California and the Southwest.
In Texas, the Mexican government had given permission for some whites to emigrate. But thousands more Anglo immigrants, or criminals, arrived illegally.
Prior to 1823, there were less than three thousand white people in Texas. At that time, the Mexican government had given Stephen Austin permission to live there along with a few hundred other Gringos, with the condition that they would become Mexican citizens, they would speak Spanish, and they would pledge allegiance to the Mexican government. But white colonists began to enter the territory illegally and brought their slaves with them. Within a decade, whites outnumbered the Hispanic inhabitants. Gringos were interested in the rich agricultural lands of the Texan territory. These were the illegal aliens of their day, see Patricia Nelson Limerick, The Legacy of Conquest: The Unbroken Past of the American West. By 1830, whites outnumbered Mexicans 25,000 to 4,000.
In 1835 Sam Houston, who had illegally crossed into Texas, argued against mixing with the Mexicans, “no matter how long we may live among them.†See Houston speech to Soldiers, January 15, 1836, in the Papers of the Texas Revolution, 1835-1836, gen. Ed. John J. Jenkins, 4:30. The Gringos eventually overwhelmed the original inhabitants of the territory and began to impose the English language on them.
According to Mexican Lieutenant Jose Maria Sanchez, the foreign intruders “have taken possession of practically all the eastern part of Texas, in most cases without the permission of the authorities. They immigrate constantly, finding no one to prevent them, and take possession of the sitio (location) that best suits them without either asking leave or going through any formality other than that of building their homes.â€
During the Battle of the Alamo, the defenders were fighting for slavery, which Mexico had abolished in Texas in 1829. After the defeats at the Alamo and Goliad, on April 21, 1836, Sam Houston’s army of less than 800 men defeated Santa Anna’s army as it camped out on the San Jacinto River, east of present-day Houston. The next day, Houston’s army captured Santa Anna himself and forced him to sign a treaty granting Texas its independence, a treaty that was never ratified by the Mexican government because it was acquired under duress.
Soon after, these Anglo aliens usurped Mexicans’ land. They began to dishonor Mexican land claims. They passed new laws in English, a foreign language for those Mexicans whose border had moved. Often Mexican land was auctioned off for pennies an acre for failure to pay taxes. Mexicans were commonly lynched and whole communities were driven out of Texas towns.
Gringos carried out raids in which they murdered Mexicans and forcibly took their land and stocks. Historian A.B.J. Hammet states that Mexican families were “driven from their homes, their cattle and horse and their lands, by an army of reckless, war-crazy people.†In 1839 over a hundred Mexican families were forced to abandon their houses in the town of Nacogdoches by invading Gringos. The mayor of San Antonio in 1840, Juan Seguin, states in his “Personal Memoirs of John N. Seguinâ€, how Mexicans came to him repeatedly from protection of the invading whites. Eventually, he had to flee to Mexico because of personal threats against him.
Anglo outlaws raided Mexican ranches, killing the inhabitants, burning homes and stores. Mexican livestock was declared public property and the invaders forcefully took Mexicans’ property and their land. Mexicans were driven out of Austin in 1853 and again in 1855. They were expelled from Seguin in 1854, from Matagorda and Colorado Counties in 1856, and from Uvalde in 1857.
Rancher Faustino Morales recalls that how the Gringos “came in and drove the Mexicans out and took over their ranches.†See Frank H. Dugan, “The 1850 Affairs of the Brownsfield Separatistsâ€. Southwestern Historical Quarterly 61,no.2.
Years later, whites would also use the Texas Rangers to officially carry out their deeds. “Texas Rangers, in cooperation with land speculators, came into small Mexican villages in the border country, massacred hundreds of unarmed, peaceful Mexicans villagers and seized their lands. See “The Mexican Question in the Southwest, “ Political Affairs March 1939.
Most of the illegal aliens were land speculators and criminals. William Barret Travis had escaped to Mexican territory after he had killed a man. Jim Bowie was a slave trader who had gone into Texas hoping to make some business; Sam Houston and Davy Crockett had participated in the massacre of the Creeks at Horseshoe Bend.
Abb Emanuel Domenech, a religious missionary in Southern Texas, states in “Missionary Adventures in Texas and Mexico†that “The American of the Texan frontiers are, for the most part, the very scum of society-bankrupts, escaped criminals, old volunteers, who after the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, came into a country protected by nothing that could be called a judicial authority, to seek adventure and illicit gains.â€
The Anglo invasion of Mexican territory was not confined to Texas. They arrived in droves and illegally occupied great parts of the Southwest and California.
California Governor Pio Pico warned of how “we find ourselves threatened by hordes of Yankee immigrants who have already begun to flock into our country and whose progress we cannot arrest.â€
By the late 1800’s, Anglos had acquired four fifths of the Mexican land grants. See A History of Multicultural America, by Ronald Takaki. Six years after Texas independence, 1.3 million acres had been seized by 13 anglos. David Montejano, Anglos and Mexicans in the Making of Texas.
Believing in its racist ideology to wipe out other races by killing Indians and stretching to the Pacific Ocean, the United States had previously offered to purchase the Mexican territories of California, New Mexico, and Arizona for $15 milion. Mexico had indignantly refused the offer. Just as George Bush used the pretext of Weapons of Mass Destruction to attack Irak, US President James Polk then instigated war against Mexico in 1846 in hopes of acquiring Mexican territory. Most historians agree that this war was unjustified. Opponents of the war included Henry David Thoreau, Ralph Waldo Emerson, Henry Clay, Mark Twain and Daniel Webster.
One of the most interesting episodes of the Mexican War surrounded the St. Patrick’s Battalion. Among the American troops was a contingent of Irish-born soldiers. After the war commenced, 200 of these soldiers concluded that they were fighting on the wrong side. They didn’t like the fact that the United States was using its overwhelming might to invade and conquer a much weaker nation. They deserted the American army and began fighting for the Mexican army.
When U.S. Gen. Winfield Scott and his troops reached Mexico City, after invading at Veracruz, they captured the St. Patrick soldiers and hanged 50 of them.
The Mexican War ended with the surrender of Mexico and with the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo in 1848. With this treaty, Mexico lost one-half of its territory.
But this illegal and unjust war cannot be justified, just as I cannot go into your home, put a gun to your head, force you to sell me your house for $5, and then pretend that this transaction was just or legal.
Frank
I am not going to argue about the past or what did or didn’t occur depending on who is telling the story. And those of us alive today had nothing to do with the past anyway.
Let’s talk about the present because it is the only thing relevant to the illegal immigration problem we face today. Today we have immigration laws. Today we are not a vast, wide open frontier with endless ariable land mass and natural resources. Our population is over 300 million now. Those crossing our southern border illegally are not assimilating like the past immigrants did. They are colonizing in our country instead. Many including their legal counterparts have an agenda to take over this country politically and culturally. That wasn’t the plan of the first immigrants. They came to be Americans first. We are a cash cow for many of these illegal aliens today while their loyalty still lies with their native country, it’s culture, language and customs. Far too many of the citizen ones feel that way too.
We have a right to soveirgn borders today and an insistance that immigrants come here legally. And like the first immigrants they should come from many countries, not mostly just one so that assimilation does occur into the mainstream culture and society and that they become fully American rather than remaining as part of their native country instead.
Horace
CL, you could write and encyclopedia sized history describing perceived and real wrongs against Mexico, but none of it will serve to influence the majority of citizens into to ceding their nation’s sovereignty to millions of foreigners as an act of contrition. The fact is that the ancesters of the Mexicans who decided to become U.S. citizens after the Mexican-American War are far better off economically than the those who remained on the Mexican side. The ultimate socioeconomic well-being of the Hispanic people today is a better measure of which government was better fit to control territory formerly controlled by Mexico.
Evelyn
Frank
I never mentioned the “whole worlds poor”.
The rest of your post is gibberish, except for the last part, you handed me your head on a silver platter!
The fact that you think today’s immigrants should only be given “basic human rights”, but not, “put on a plane to citizenship”, shows me you are against equality. you are saying they should not be treated equally to the immigrants from Europe.
How interesting. I wont ask you why, we already know its because the majority of them have brown faces and don’t look like you.
You are a bigot!
I suspected it because you kept calling me “pro-Illegal”, the words racists use, as opposed to “pro Immigrant”, the words used by those who are truly against illegal immigration, and want a solution.
I gave you enough rope, and you hung yourself!
I played the race card, because YOU, forced my hand!
The fact that CL dealt me 4 aces that led to your loss…….PRICELESS!
THANKS CL
Frank
Evelyn, if we didn’t have immigration laws, then the whole world’s poor would want to come here and many would. Could you describe how my post is gibberish?
My basic human rights remark was mainly about illegal aliens. That is all they are entitled to and should be. They do and should not have the same rights in this country as a citizen. Why put people on a path to citizenship who didn’t even respect our immigration laws?
Oh, here comes the race card! So typical of you pro-illegals. I want ALL illegal aliens gone and I don’t care what color their faces are.
Hot flash for you! Illegal aliens aren’t immigrants. Another spin of the truth and tactic that you pro-illegals use.
Honey, you and yours have no hand. You are a pair of dueces up against a Royal Flush.
Evelyn
Frank
It is gibberish, because you keep stating the same thing over and over without a leg to stand on. Only your racist opinion. NO FACTS, NADA, ZIP, ZILCH.
I am however very glad that you finally accept the fact, and agree with me, that “ILLEGAL ALIENS” ARE NOT IMMIGRANTS, they are beings from outer space.
For coming to that conclusion, I will have to give you credit.
As for the truth you cant even find it, or don’t want to accept it even when CL slapped you square in the face with it.
It is you who has no hand and never did.
Only a big mouth that spews rhetoric, and lies, and follows the opinion of others of your ilk, you should be ashamed of yourself.
charles
to Evelyn and others:
Frank, Horace, and Eyes of Texas are racists who come here to bash anyone who’s not white or won’t support the “Brown people are detroying America” theme they believe. there is no use in trying to reason with them. they are only here to spread hate. personally i think the site needs to moderate for racism, but letting them spew their bigotry at least shows up what we’re up against.
thanks to all those here who are talking about immigration and the war on immigrants in an intelligent fashion.
Evelyn
Frank
Of course your going to ignore the facts that CL so eloquently gathered and printed, and show your ignorance by stating that your opinion and gathering of propaganda, lies, and rhetoric is more credible!
Show me the link to the credible study that proves that today’s immigrants are not assimilating!
Show me the link to your “cash cow” statement that proves you are correct!
Show me the link of the study done to prove” where their loyalties still lie”.
Evelyn
Horace
First of all, let me congratulate you.
I can see that your campaign to be “ASS”,
is going well. You shure have my vote!
The problem is, that your statement, is one of those half-truths used to justify bias agendas.
You should have gone on to explain, that the reason the GDP for the U.S.A. is sooo much higher than that of the countries below our southern border, is because the good old U.S.of A. is sucking them dry, you know, exploiting them, stealing their natural resources. In other words the U.S. has her long arm extended to reach there cookie jar $$$ and make their cookie$ disappear.
That is why you get to live the “HIGH LIFE” and they cant feed their families.
Which causes MIGRATION.
Especially when U.S. companies offer jobs complete with perks!
What would you do, Horace, let your family starve to death. I think not, your ancestors didn’t.
Frank
Evelyn, I asked you to point out what specifically in my posts are gibberish and are not factual. You failed to answer. You just stated that I don’t have a leg to stand on. And again you just pull the race card. That isn’t a valid defense for your views. Me thinks you don’t have a valid argument to support what you say. Try it!
Alien doesn’t only mean someone from outer space in the English language, it also means a foreigner from another country. Don’t you own a dictionary?
What is this truth you speak of or are you just going to babble about it without explaining what you mean? Show me where I have spewed rhetoric or lies. I have my own opinions and I think for myself so don’t try to claim that others are forming my opinions for me. I base my opinons on law, common sense and research. You are the one who should be ashamed that you can’t debate like an adult. Just personal insults and the race card.
I’ll give you some examples to back up my remarks but I am sure there are stats out there too to support it. Why didn’t we have to press two for Spanish until the past 20 years or so? Why are our ads also in Spanish now? Legal and citizen Hispanics are mostly bi-lingual. It is targeting millions of illegal aliens who are not assimilating. Why did you mention immigrants? I didn’t say that legal immigrants aren’t assimilating.
Screaming Viva Mexico and marching in our street carrying the Mexican flag while protesting our county’s immgiration policies shows where these people’s loyaties lay. Signs that say “whitey go back to Europe.” And we are the racists?, lol.
Most of the illegals and some citizens loyalty is to Mexico and are just here to work or milk our system of freebies aka the cash cow.
charles, what hate and what bigotry? This is about illegal immigration from anywhere. I don’t care what color of skin anyone has as long as they are here legally. Are you calling the 80% of the U.S. population who want our
immigration laws enforced, racists? Maybe you should move to another country then. We wouldn’t want you living among all those racists, now would we? Why is anyone, especially a white person, bigoted for wanting our immigration laws honored? You are being ridiculous. You know who the real racists are? Those Americans who support this illegal invasion of our country just because these illegals are of the same ethnicity as themselves. Now that is true racism!
Evelyn
Thanks charles
I know exactly what they are. If we ignore their comments, others will believe them. We must not do what the Germans did, they never challenged Hitler.
This type of exposure is seen by the world, and it hurts them.
Once normal people see the ugliness, and putrid racism that drives them, they are disgusted. I’m not trying to reason with them, you cant, because their way of thinking is not rational. I only provoke them to expose them.
If anyone out there is offended by them, don’t be.
Remember you have to consider the source, and we’re talking bottom of the barrel trash here. Peace Guys!
Frank
Evelyn, it’s a bunch of BS that most Mexicans are starving in Mexico. They come here because our jobs pay more, not because they don’t have one.
There is much that goes on in our government that we citizens have no control over. Many things we aren’t even allowed to vote on. We will not give up our country to an illegal invasion because of the sins of our politicians. The best we can do is throw the bums out of office and we will.
The “high life”? Not that’s funny. Most middle and lower income Americans are struggling to make ends meet. Part of the reason is the additional taxes we have to pay for the upkeep of illegal aliens in our country. No, their costs do not offset any taxes they may pay either. The negative in in the billions.
We are opposed to corporations offering “perks” for illegal aliens to come here and steal our jobs too. They have no right to do that.
Biased agenda? Of course you don’t have one, do you?
Horace
“First of all, let me congratulate you.
I can see that your campaign to be “ASS”,
is going well. You shure have my vote!”
Thank you Evelyn. Incidentally, I want to thank you for accepting my invitation to the position of ass in waiting. Our little secret has been kept long enough.
Evelyn
I never asked for more gibberish, I STATED LINKS TO FACTS,
YOUR OPINIONS DON’T COUNT!……………………………………………………………….I’m still waiting…………………………….
Evelyn
Horace
Sorry I have to decline your Invitation, I don’t associate with trash!
Evelyn
Council of Economic Advisers, Washington
http://www.whitehouse.gov/cea/cea_Immigration_062007pdf
1. In 2006 Immigrants accounted for 15% of the U.S. labor force.
2. On average U.S. natives benefit from Immigration. Immigrants tend to complement, (not substitute for), natives’ productivity, and income.
3. Immigrants are a critical part of the U.S. workforce, and contribute to productivity growth, and technological advancement.
4. Many immigrants are entrepreneurs.
Entrepreneurial activity is nearly 40% higher for immigrants than natives.
5. Immigrants and their children assimilate into U.S. culture. 72% of 1st generation latino immigrants use spanish as their predominant language, only 7% of second generation are spanish speakers.
6. Immigrants have lower crime rates than natives. Among men ages 18 to 40 immigrants are less likely to be incarcerated than natives.
7.Immigrants slightly improve the solvency of pay as you go entitlements such as social security and medicare.
8. The long run impact of immigration on public is likely to be positive.
Immigrants and their descendants contribute $80,000 more in taxes than they would ever receive in public services.
Immigration Policy Center
http://www.ailf/ipc/factcheck/Economics07.pdf
The vast majority of Immigrants are not eligible to receive public benefits such as, medicaid, schip, tanif, SSI, or food stamps. Legal permanent residents (green carders) must pay social security and medicare for 10 yrs before they can receive benefits when they retire.
Undocumented immigrants, who comprise one third of all immigrants in the country, are not eligible for any kind of public benefit–ever.
Immigration Policy Center
Crime and Immigrants
http://www.ailf.org/ipcl/factchecks/CrimeFactChecks10-16-07.pdf
The problem of crime in the U.S. is not caused or even aggravated by immigrants, regardless of their status. This is hardly surprising since immigrants come to the U.S. to pursue economic and educational opportunities not available in their home countries, and to build a better life for themselves, and their families.
As a result, they have little to gain, and much to lose by breaking the law.
Undocumented immigrants, in particular have even more reason not to run afoul of the law given the risk of deportation that their lack of legal status entails.
These are facts, not BS spewed by some on this forum!
Evelyn
Frank, I am calling your statement “80% of the U.S. population who want the current Immigration laws enforced”, a LIE, just another example of all the rhetoric you spew!
While Debate Rages, the Public Continues to Support Realistic Immigration Solutions
December 10, 2007
In the spring of 2007, congress engaged in a bitter debate on the issue of immigration reform. A fierce battle was fought between those who seek practical, comprehensive solutions to our broken immigration system, and those who favor only the enforcement of the broken status-quo. The debate was conducted in an atmosphere poisoned by the HARSH RHETORIC (comparable to the BS Frank spews) of conservative talk radio and anti-Immigration reform groups. They managed to intimidate Congress into a stalemate. Until Congress picks up Immigration reform again the nation will continue to suffer the consequences of a broken immigration system.
Following is a summery of public opinion polls on immigration reform debate.
Favor= indicates a path to citizenship is acceptable. Opposed= indicates those who support Immigration enforcement and deportation only.
These polls were done recently, all in 2007
L.A. Times/ Bloomberg
60% Favor…16% oppose
Quinnipiac University Polling Instute
55% Favor…38% oppose, Washington post/ABC News 51% Favor… No stats/ oppose, ABC News/Good Morning America 58% Favor…No Stats/ Oppose, Monmouth University polling Institute 65% favor…30%Oppose, CBS News 65% Favor…28% Oppose, Texas Employers for Immigration Reform 59% Favor…36% Oppose, LA Times/ Bloomberg 63% Favor…23% Oppose, FOX News 67% Favor…39% Oppose, Miami Harold/Zogby 60% Favor…no stats Opposed, Pew Research Center 63% Favor… no stats Opposed, Washington Post/ABC News 52% Favor…no stats Oppose, NY Times 62% Favor…33% Oppose, USA Today 78% Favor…no stats Oppose, Washington Post/ABC News 62% Favor…35% Oppose, CNN/Opinion Research 77% Favor… 21% Oppose
http://www.immigrationforum.org/documants/PressRoom/PublicOpinon/2007/PollingSummary0407.pdf
Frank
Eveylyn, the topic isn’t about “immigrants” it is about “illegal aliens”. You don’t know the difference?
Evelyn
Frank
So were these studies, I left that out to see if you would visit the site
where it would have told you that if you had!
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