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Brutal Murder of Four Ohio Immigrants Leads Investigators into the Secret Lives of the Undocumented

LatinaLista — The gruesome deaths of four (presumably) undocumented Mexican men in Sharonville, Ohio, a suburb of Cincinnati probably would not have garnered much media attention if they had been victims of a robbery.
But they weren’t.

Unfortunately, for these men, two of whom were brothers, they were the victims of a murder so heinous that it made the city’s coroner stand up and take notice.
All men, in addition to being beaten up, were stabbed repeatedly and methodically in the heart.
Yet, as horrible as that is, the lifestyle of these men is what is causing many in Cincinnati to do a double-take on who the undocumented are, why they come and just how far from the truth it is to say they are a drain on society.

The investigation of the murders of these four men is ongoing. The local police have never seen anything like this involving undocumented immigrants so they’ve called in ICE to help with the investigation.
It seems their boss, at a local construction company, got worried when one of the guys who was known to be punctual and reliable had missed work. The boss knew something was wrong and reported it to the police.
Little did he know that he would lead investigators onto a murder scene or into a situation that will now question his hiring practices and place his business under heightened scrutiny from immigration officials.
All he knew was that these four men, from the same village in Mexico, were good, dependable workers.
It doesn’t give the police a lot to work with except that it explains why robbery wasn’t the motive in the deaths — one of the men’s wallets had $1,300 still in it.
That’s not unusual given how the undocumented aren’t too motivated to open up bank accounts given the current political climate.
But just as that amount of money had officials catch their breath, it was the receipts of remittances they found that made them take a closer look at the lives of these men.
The officials found several remittance receipts. One was in the amount of $2,500.
Then they took a closer look at the men and the apartment itself.

“You have four individuals, going to work every day, living in an apartment with no furniture … and yet we found receipts from them sending thousands of dollars back to their families,” the Coroner said.

The men slept on mattresses and had no other furniture.
Lt. John Cook, Sharonville police spokesman, said, “People I have had contact with said these guys kept pretty much to themselves, went to work and came home. It was a simple lifestyle, no wild parties or anything like that.”
It is the same story for thousands of single Latino immigrants whose intention it is to work and send money home to families who are living in poverty.
For the time being, whoever killed these men is a mystery, but what has just become clearer in one Ohio town is a glaring testament to the fact that undocumented immigrants don’t come all the way into this country to rip off the United States.
As is too often the case, these immigrants end up getting ripped off themselves — and all too often the price they pay comes at great cost to them and their families.

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  • Frank
    December 18, 2007 at 7:30 am

    Any deaths tht occur this way is sad. I hope they catch those responsible for it. But to state across the board that no illegal aliens have ripped off this country is not factual. They all do to some degree just by crossing our border illegally. Some after getting here commit I.D. fraud and other crimes. I of course am not making a blanket statement about them committing these more serious crimes. Some do, perhaps many don’t.
    One thing that puzzles me is when they are caught, they cry seperation of families if they have family here but what about those families they leave behind in Mexico? Isn’t that seperation of families by their choice?

    December 18, 2007 at 8:05 am

    Another sad example of why our immigration laws should not be broken. If these men had remained at home with their families instead of abandoning them, this tragedy would not have occured. Not only do our immigration laws protect citizens, it is also designed to protect non-citizens by preventing them from coming here in the first place.

    December 18, 2007 at 1:51 pm
    So, you say illegal immigration is a victimless crime. Go to the counter at the site above and you will witness the truth.

  • Evelyn
    December 18, 2007 at 3:56 pm

    May God bless the families of these men and give them peace in knowing that their loved ones will suffer no more. May he also grant them the ability to heal from this great loss.

  • Evelyn
    December 18, 2007 at 4:32 pm

    Anyone who has the audacity to blame these victims for their own deaths, should be looking in the mirror for those responsible.
    Don’t try to shove the blame onto others. Stand up and take responsibility for your actions, just as you stand up and use lies, and propaganda to demonize Immigrants, especially Mexicans, and along the way instigate others (INSANE) to commit these crimes.
    What you forget, is that one day YOU will be judged.
    It is because of your hate that these types of crimes are committed.
    People who hate are incapable of loving themselves. They are also incapable of showing care and compassion for others.
    These are the traits that separate humans from beasts.
    According to history all people labeled as beasts, lived wretched lives and had to endure demeaning, and violent deaths. Today these people are remembered as cowards.

  • Horace
    December 18, 2007 at 10:03 pm

    Marisa, It’s one of the objectionable traits of batchelor Hispanic illegal aliens that they live in rathole apartments and sleep on the floor. Your’s is not exactly the dramatic expose that you make it out to be. A common complaint in residential neighborhoods is the conversion of single family dwellings into bachelor pads, with unkempt lawns and numerous rust bucket vehicles out front, all in violation of zoning ordinances. Is this the kind of neighborhood you picture for your town?

  • Frank
    December 18, 2007 at 10:45 pm

    Wow, all those hateful remarks against law abiding Americans who oppose illegal immigration but advocate legal immigration. Simply amazing!

  • arin
    December 19, 2007 at 6:48 am

    i just cant figure out why everyone has a problem being here in united states when there not hurting anyone. u dont know where they came from and why there here.. if this country was a better country they wouldnt have to sneak over here they could come over leagal and go home more often… BY THE WAY THE MEN IN THIS LETTER IS MY FAMILY……….

  • Evelyn
    December 19, 2007 at 10:37 am

    I want to offer my sincere condolences for the loss of your family member.
    Siento mucho la perdida de su familiar. Que Dios lo recoja, y lo tenga en su santa gloria.
    I agree with you, there should be a way for Mexicans to come here legally when offered a job.
    If there was, they could go home and visit their families often without the fear and hardship of having to come illegally.
    They would not be forced to stay and have families here, or bring their families from Mexico to be together.
    Unfortunelly Congress has let themselves be intimidated by some loud-mouthed racist’s, and have failed to fix our broken immigration laws.
    I want you to know that I am an American who is deeply embarrassed by the behavior of these ignorant idiots who have hijacked the immigrants, and the immigration issue, and blame them for all their problems.
    They use the immigrants as an excuse for their failures, and all of the Ill’s of this country.
    These people ignore the facts, and refuse to accept that it is themselves, and the bad choices they have made, to blame for their failure.
    The fact that immigrants are allowed to enter without proper documentation, is also their fault as it is they who vote for the politicians who are responsible to address these issues, and their failure to do so. It is not the fault of the immigrants, for violating a rule that cannot be enforced.
    Take heart in the fact that throughout history every group with views similar to theirs has gone down in flames, and failed.
    Some have taken their country with them (Hitler), but they always fail (Roman Empire).
    They say “RIGHT WINS MIGHT”, remember that.
    God Bless, Peace!

  • Evelyn
    December 19, 2007 at 11:36 am

    The website provided above, and shown below,
    Is a spawn of several hate groups, some of which are being watched by the FBI.
    This website endorses the views of hate groups and has direct links to several well documented (minutemen & save our state etc.) hate groups, by the Southern Poverty Law Center, and Anti-Defamation.
    I encourage you to research this website and look for their links, so you may see for yourselves.
    This totally excludes this link from being credible on anything!
    If anyone is offended by my posts, all I can say is,
    IF THE SHOE FITS, o WELL. The truth hurts.
    Demonizing, and Lambasting Immigrants especially Hispanics, with lies also hurts.
    Their are some people I don’t like, but that does not give me the right to demonize them, using lies and propaganda to discredit them, and then be AMAZED when i’m challenged!
    They say, “every bully meets his match”.
    Get a clue, cause you’ve just met yours!

  • Evelyn Chavez
    December 19, 2007 at 12:44 pm

    The unkept lawns, and numerous rust bucket vehicles out front, all in violation of zoning ordinances, sounds like a perfect description of a family who lived in my daughter’s neighborhood.
    The man was one of those redneck racists that had a confederate flag hanging out front, and a HUMONGOUS snake as a pet.
    He chewed tobacco, and spat every where, and set out on his front porch drinking beer, and belched all the time, and beat his wife and terrorized his kids at least once a month.
    My daughter cared for his wife and children many times, until the cops came after the beatings.
    The man never worked, claiming disability, and was supported by taxpayers, although no one, including his wife, knew what his disability was.
    The man finally ended up on the wrong side of the law, and was sent to the pen.
    His wife took the kids, and moved away.
    A few month later, everyone was happy to see the yard being cleaned up. I was later informed, it was a nice Hispanic family who cleaned up the place and remodeled the house which they bought.
    Esparanza=Hope in English and her husband have three American born children, and has become good friends with my daughter.
    Hope confided in my daughter that her husband who is here legally, filed her immigration papers 9 yrs ago, and is on a waiting list. If picked up she will be deported back to Mexico. Her husband who works every day, recently helped several neighbors clear fallen trees, due to a recent ice storm we had.
    The picture that accompanies this article shows nothing that can be described as “RATHOLE APARTMENTS”
    May I suggest you LOOK and THINK before you post, so you wont whine when labeled a lier and racist.

    December 19, 2007 at 1:16 pm

    Both sides on the issue of illegal immigration sling their own form of lies and propaganda. When the pro-illegal group can not convince everyone that their propaganda is only the truth, then they pull the race card and start spouting their insults and name calling.
    The illegals in this country are criminals no matter what country they came from. They are criminal by their presence in this country, since they have broken the law by not coming here legally. A large percentage remain here by using counterfeit or stolen IDs, SS cards or falsified documents.
    How’s that for facts with no bullying implied. If you want to ignore our laws and thumb your nose at law abiding citizens who are for law enforcement, then maybe you don’t belong here either.

    December 19, 2007 at 2:33 pm

    Evelyn, there is not a single website or government documentation showing the negative impact of illegal immigration that you would accept as credible. With your tunnel vision view of the issue, any such proof would be either racist or propaganda in your closed mind. I will not turn my back on millions of legal American citizens to give support to illegal alien criminals, no matter where they come from.
    It’s easy to play the race card when you are a minority and call anyone a racist or a hate group because they don’t support your point of view. Before you start throwing stones, look at the places you get your information (propaganda) from, are they not run by and in support of Hispanics? If so, that is true racism.

  • Morena
    December 19, 2007 at 4:33 pm

    Thank you Evelyn. How dare you blame the victims for the atrocities committed today? These men like all the immigrants that came and now continue to reside in this country taking ownership are nothing more than a byproduct of all that we ourselves have permitted to take place around the world. Immigration is an issue that must be addressed, but are we to punish all those that break the law with such hatred and pervasive tactics?
    Are we do condone the statements, go back to Europe pilgrim…stop claiming Palestine as your own jews..suffer genocide since you refused to leave LA…Africa will be Africa let them starved and die..

  • Evelyn
    December 19, 2007 at 5:04 pm

    EYES, Look in the mirror when you talk about “SLINGING LIES and PROPAGANDA”
    I don’t care what you think, your just a pawn that has set yourself up to expose racism, and the lies being used by people like you that are fueling the negative sentiment toward immigrants especially Hispanics.
    Keep it up, your doing a wonderful job of showing your ignorance and making a complete fool of yourself, for ALL the world to see.
    if they were Tancredo and Hunter would be the top contenders, not at 1%
    Here is a credible link that shows studies done about

  • Horace
    December 19, 2007 at 6:44 pm

    EoT, it’s obvious that Evelyn is emotional and too biased to cope with the concept that her position on illegal immigration would undermine our nation’s sovereignty and our economic wellbeing. It may not even matter to her, as her motives are self-serving. She’d import millions of unskilled and semi-literate people to the detriment of the nation as a whole, just so her friends would be amnestied. Oops, I guess some would call that hateful. By the way Evelyn, how many of your friends are on welfare or food stamps, or get an Earned Income Tax Credit? How many of your relatives were amnestied as the result of the 1986 legislation? How many of your friends or family would be subject to any proposed amnesty?

  • Frank
    December 19, 2007 at 8:12 pm

    Boy, Evelyn must have a crystal ball. It is able to tell her that Americans opposed to illegal immigration have personal problems and failures that they are looking to blame illegal aliens for. LOL! It couldn’t possibly be that they are law abiding Americans that know what uncontrolled illegal immigration and the snubbing of our laws and sovereignty can do to their country, now could it? Naw, they just must be miserable, racist Americans. LOL!
    Of course let’s just forget that the U.S. has the most generous immigration policy on this planet and that we allow a million legal immigrants into our country a year.
    Maybe she should move to another, less racist country. Wouldn’t want her to be so miserable here, now would we?

  • mynmx
    December 20, 2007 at 1:23 am

    Dear Horace and Frank, and your new buddy EOT – (needed some back up, eh? pretty soon this site will be crawling with you critters!)
    Want to know how clear it is you guys are part of the hateful group? Not one of you could stop, not for a second, spitting out such awful things about these men who were so brutally murdered. You couldn’t just be respectful towards these souls leaving the earth when so clearly they did not fall within your rubric of hate, i.e. these men were not a drain on the system, instead, self sacrificing to send back to their families all available income that they did not spend even on beds. You couldn’t even be good christians and just say this is not fair if they were killed for being undocumented, couldn’t just say these are good people who died senselessly. For one damn second you couldn’t just stop?
    Sadly, this is why you will never be convincing of anything more than hate. Its so shameful that so much hate can exist from such a great country as our nation. The real American is the man who courageously called the police when he realized someone he trusted and respected had not shown up. Sadly, in this case, if he is also prosecuted, one more innocent American will be caught in this psychotic, schizophrenic policy.
    Then again, a Mexican man saves a boy in the desert and helps him make it through his first night as an orphan, on THANKSGIVING no less, and still, there is no peace. This is what makes me think the movement you seem to be part is so heartless.
    No one is saying laws should be broken. Even the law has a space for situations that are considered illegal on the books, yet society has seen to make custom. In this case, what is so sad is that the hatred you desire to be policy is nothing about the law. If so, you’d admit that this situation became so out of control that everyone is involved. To be fair, one would have to admit this very real truth.
    Graciously, and humanly, admit what has happened and develop a coordinated, intelligent, mindful policy to address the concerns of everyone involved. The immigrants, the businesses, the border patrol, and us citizens. But, to continually spout illegality is where the very unfairness lies. Can’t you see that? It’s not just unfair to to immigrants but also to the individuals and business’ who are swept up in a nonsensical policy. Does this all make sense for any other reason than to be hateful? Its not immigration laws to which I object. Rather the unfairness of seeing so clearly a system broke for a long time, broken on such a broad, national level, and yet blaming only people of hispanic, and mainly Mexican, descent. Is this a situation of law breaking or custom? With estimates at 12 million undocumented people in this country, can you really claim this has not become custom?
    Why must you make it “us” against “them”? Why must you be part of shadowy websites that are designed to anger rather than heal? Isn’t that why you use all the ‘trigger’ words to make us feel less? From undocumented you extrapolate to the entire hispanic population? Isn’t that the very definition of racism, when you attach one characteristic to an entire group? This is what is so wasteful. Don’t we have enough problems on our hands?
    I challenge you three to please post next with some humane way of dealing with this issue, just ONE answer that does not speak badly, assumes criminality, and involves hate, just ONE EACH. Please tell us oh great ones, just how do we solve this puzzle in a way that can make us proud to follow your lead. Then, send those suggestions to your congress reps, contribute to the solution -maybe go offer to work in the fields, and volunteer your time addressing the problem positively. Maybe read a book or two about Mexico, and gain a better understanding of the history, and the situation of their economy, society, and culture. I for one wish to better understand you, please explain what has happened to you personally as a result of immigration that makes you so angry? Specifically, something particular to you.
    Let me know how it goes, I’d like to dialogue with you when you have some more real world experience with truly positive action.
    As always, remember, I just don’t buy your lines, so save them for another time, but get real, and show me some answers that can be true for us all.
    To the families of the victims, I pray for your healing, and wish godspeed to those investigating the murders, for perhaps, with closure, we can all heal to better understand each other as individuals.

    December 20, 2007 at 11:24 am

    You don’t buy my lines, so why bother. All I know is that one day, coming soon, the problem of illegal immigration and the issue of the millions of illegal aliens currently in our country will be resolved. That resolve will end up being 100% unsatisfactory by one side or the other. Ther is no middle of the road when it come to national security and national sovereignty.
    My home is the santuary city of Houston, Texas and the illegal alien population is extreme. Personally, I had an automobile totaled by a van load of illegal aliens. The police arrived at the scene and as usual no one in the van spoke or understood English. The officer took my statement, did not issue anyone a ticket and told me to call my insurance company and fill a “uninsured driver” claim. The van driver was also unlicensed. The cop let the folks in the van walk away like they had done nothing wrong and I was left to call a tow truck to remove what was left of my car. This scenario is repeated several time on a daily basis all over the Houston area. Of coarse, I was angry, not at the people in the van but at a system that does not hold them accountable for their actions. I know they could have called ICE and all of them would have been deported, but instead they were allowed to fade back into the shadows.
    This is only one example why it is wrong to let these people run wild in our cities with no accountability for anything they do.

  • Evelyn
    December 20, 2007 at 1:21 pm

    It’s obvious that Horace is “semi-literate” and too “unskilled” to read or comprehend any of the credible links that prove his opinion stating, “illegal immigration would undermine our nation’s sovereignty and our economic well being”, is a LIE.
    The rest of your post is very interesting. I added Chavez to my name in my previous post, and you took the bait, reared your ugly racist head, and in a glorious display you let the world know exactly what you think of Hispanics.
    Actually, it was my Irish father who suggested I use a Hispanic surname. After pondering his suggestion, I decided to do it. My Native American Mother, laughed, and said that would give me an unfair advantage. I also have a brother in law that works for the Department of Homeland Security, as a border patrol agent, and sister that is a DEA agent. They also share my views, and none of us will be voting for Tancredo. ppsss ppsss
    it’s not popular to be a racest.

    December 20, 2007 at 1:40 pm

    I have no idea who Horace and Frank are other than what they have released on this blog. That does not classify me as their new buddy, but does align me with their stance on the issue of borders, language and culture. I am one of those proud Americans that have defended my country during war time and now I am having to defend it from being destroyed from within. Why is it wrong on our part to defend our country against an all out invasion by millions of illegal aliens. If they all wore the same uniform, maybe then it would be reconized as an invasion.

  • Evelyn
    December 20, 2007 at 2:00 pm

    I don’t need a Christal ball to tell me what you so eloquently laid out for all the world to see.
    When provided with plenty of credible evidence, it is you who refuses to accept the fact that all your opinions are based on lies.
    It is you who refuses to acknowledge that the facts point out the bounty in taxes immigrants pay including undocumented immigrants, and the services and products their labor provide us at affordable prices. The buying power of these immigrants also helps our economy grow. That has always been the case. That is why the U.S. is the superpower she is. The U.S. has always had a ready supply of immigrants at her back door to come in when needed.
    Fact is, for the U.S. to remain competitive in global economy the immigrants are needed.
    Unless you want more jobs off shored, we need people here to do these jobs. If farmers have to move their operations to other countries (like they already are, where sanitary growing conditions are non existent or more lax, and than import our food back to the U.S. It wont be only lead in the children’s toys, or our dogs and cats dying, it will be every American that is affected.
    Are you willing to let that happen Frank? If it does, it wont be me leaving. It will be all the raciest jumping ship like rats, before this country sinks.

    December 20, 2007 at 2:15 pm

    It has always been said that people are sometimes murdered by someone they know on a personal level. Has it ever occured to anyone that these reclusive
    individuals were murdered by one of their own and he has already fled back across the border? I am putting this suggestion out there before people start with the hate crime rhetoric. I will say once again, it is a sad situation, but these men were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

  • Frank
    December 20, 2007 at 3:50 pm

    mynmx, I haven’t a clue who Horace or Eyes of Texas are. I have only encountered them on this blog and no where else.
    FYI, I am not a part of any hateful group and if you would go back and read my first post under this topic you will see that I said those deaths were sad and that I hope that they catch who commited those murders. But as usual you pro-illegals are so eager to label anyone who is opposed to illegal immigration as hateful racists, you can’t see the forest for the trees.
    There is nothing non-sensical or broken about our immigration laws. They just haven’t been enforced. We have the most generous legal immigration policy on this planet. It is just that there are more people on this planet that want to come here than we can accomodate. Those south of the border in particular have just decided to snub our laws and come anyway.
    We are not just blaming Mexican illegal aliens. We oppose illegal immigration from anywhere. It is just that Mexicans make up most of the illegals here and that is why they are taking most of the heat.
    Most Americans are not into “hate” websites. They are for the rule of law and don’t need websites to tell us to hate anything. No one I know of hates Hispanics for just being Hispanic. If they are here legally and stand up for the rule of law, we have no problem with them.
    Your side constantly calls law abiding Americans, racists and yet it is your side who are ethnically like most of the illegals that are advocating their illegal entry into our country. Now who are the racists ones here?
    Most Americans don’t object to illegal immigration because they have miserable lives. That is one of the most ridiculous arguments I have heard yet. The rule of law stands on it’s own.
    I could read books on the country of origin of every illegal alien here but what good would that do? You expect me to say we shouldn’t have immigration laws because there are poor people all over the world that want to come here? We cannot accomodate them all. That is why we do have immigration laws.
    My solution: Secure our borders and stop the flow.
    Pass the SAVE ACT so that employers must verify every employee on their payroll has the right to work in this country. If they have used false I.D. and SS numbers and are here illegally, fire them.
    No more public services for illegal aliens, only emergency health care. No more sanctuary cities. The results of all of the above is that illegal aliens will self-deport.
    Once back in their country of origin they can apply to come back here legally after those waiting in line get a shot at the American Dream. First, we need to offer these vacated jobs at a fair wage to American workers. If we determine that we don’t have enough Americans to fill those jobs we can increase work visas for foreign workers. The ag industry most likely will require the most foreign workers.
    I am more in favor of temporary foreign workers not permanant residency or paths to citizenship. Each case however can be reviewed for those want to stay permanently. The reason I say this is because we already have 300 million people in this country and we must stabilize our population growth.
    I would also pass legislation re-interpreting the 14th Amendment so that no child born from illegal aliens get birthright citizenship. One parent would have to be a citizen in order for the child to qualify.
    We need to be able to claim parts of our identity as a nation as “official” without being called racists for that, such as making English our official language. This will also help immigrants assimilate into our society.

  • Frank
    December 20, 2007 at 6:01 pm

    Evelyn, what you fail to understand that I am mainly opposed to illegal immigration because of our laws and the reasons that they are in place. Even if I convinced that illegals were a net benefit to this country in the way of the economy, I would still be opposed to their presence here. You see I have much more important priorities then saving a buck. I think I have outlined those reasons pretty clearly in here and they are all in the national interest.

  • Horace
    December 20, 2007 at 6:33 pm

    The U.S. will never be competitive with China by using unskilled manual laborers. Chinese get paid a few cents and hour, so until their standard of living reaches ours, something that may be decades away, even employing cheap Mexican labor will not make it so. Mechanizing our produce industry and our manufacturing to the maximum extent possible is the only option in our fight for world. There’s competition. Hanging on to unskilled labor is a strategy that will only lead us to an economic spiral to the bottom, leaving China the winner.
    This is not Mexico. I view Mexicans as foreigners, so from my perspective guest workers are a kind of outsourcing.
    One hypothetical question to you, Evelyn. If we had the choice between bringing in 10,000 Asian Indian poor who were a lot worse off than these Mexicans, and the equivalent number of Mexicans, who would you choose, and why?

  • Horace
    December 20, 2007 at 6:39 pm

    You’re right EoT, this could easily be a case of a mad illegal alien killer as it could be a citizen. One has to wonder whether Marisa will be big enough to apologize to the American people through this blog if the former turns out to be true.

  • Evelyn
    December 20, 2007 at 8:56 pm

    Do you go out and ask all Hispanics in Houston For their documentation to see if they are legal or illegal?
    You state, “as usual no one in the van”, huummm, as usual?…. how many accidents have you had? Maby you shouldn’t be driving.
    You shouldn’t be angry at the cops for not reporting the immigrants, after one of your many accidents with Undocumented immigrants.
    You should be angry with yourself, for screaming bloody murder, and shutting down the phone lines at the capitol building and intimidating congress into not addressing the problem that affected you when you had the accident.
    Undocumented immigrants would have a drivers licence=better drivers. They would have insurance= it would have paid for the damages. If you had supported Comprehensive Immigration Reform.
    Neither side is going to get their way, both have to compromise.
    The cops didn’t call Ice to deport the Immigrants because they receive orders from higher-up, and those people know immigrants are vital to our economy.
    Immigrants aren’t known for “running wild”, they are known for being excellent workers.
    Eyes, if you were defending your country, you wouldn’t support the current immigration situation. You would want to end this problem and accept that neither you or “them” are going to get your way . Both will have to compromise, and accept Comprehensive Immigration Reform.
    Many illegal immigrants are actually fighting that war you defend, while you are supporting deportatimg their family members. Justice and equality for all should also be supported by patriotic Americans.
    Your illusion of “all out invasion by millions of illegal aliens” is flat out BS.
    If the cops are hinting it was a hate crime because, only 4 guys lived their and worked for the same company. They DIDN’T through wild parties and DIDN’T cause problems for anyone. DIDN’T go in and out at all hours of the day and night. Kept pretty much to themselves, like many Americans do,
    Had no drugs in the apt, or their systems.
    $1,200 was left behind in a wallet. The crime was a vicious one. They were all stabbed in the heart to make sure they were dead.
    Why would you suggest it was one of them? Are you the one with that Cristal ball rumored to be used by me, cause I know I don’t have it. Were you there? Do you know who did it? Was it you? “One of their own” wouldn’t leave $1.200 behind, trust me. Why are you suggesting these men were in the wrong place at the wrong time? That’s dumb! Unless you have an ulterior motive. It wasn’t an accident, you know. It was cold blooded murder!

  • Horace
    December 20, 2007 at 10:53 pm

    “Many illegal immigrants are actually fighting that war you defend, while you are supporting deportatimg their family members. Justice and equality for all should also be supported by patriotic Americans.”
    This is a lie. Illegal aliens are not accepted into the military, as they can’t pass the background checks. The government may even prosecute them if they misrepresent their citizenship in a sworn statement. I guess the end justifies the means, eh Evelyn.

  • Frank
    December 21, 2007 at 8:27 am

    Oh my God Evelyn, your response to EOT is so bizarre.
    First, EOT noting that “as usual no one in the van spoke English” is a pretty good indication that they were illegal aliens especially when you compound it with the fact that they had no driver’s licenses or insurance. This would not fit the description of most legal immigrants or Hispanic citizens. EOT was not indicating that he had had numerous accidents before. For crying out loud, even a 2 year old could have figured out what he meant.
    Illegal aliens should be deported, not given driver’s licenses. It is the law!
    There will be no compromise on the part of law abiding Americans on this illegal immigration issue. Our country’s future is at stake and so is one of the most important things that this country was founded on and that is the rule of law.
    We cannot trust our government to secure our borders and stop the flow with any compromise anyway. They double crossed us in 1986 and they would so again. You are correct we do not support the current situation but what the pro-illegals want would only make the situation worse.
    Not all illegal aliens are excellent workers any more than all citizens are excellent workers. It is beside the point anyway. They have no right to be working in this country or even being here. So 12-20 million illegal aliens or even more by some statistics, isn’t an invasion, then what the heck is?
    There shouldn’t be any illegal alien in our military and I don’t support this war anyway. If they are in the military and the government has made promises not to deport their families, then cry to the government, not us.
    As far as the men that were murdered, it was a terrible crime and no one deserves that regardless of their status in this country. We are all just speculating who did it. I never point the finger of guilt to anyone until suspects are captured and a court decides their guilt or innocence. I hope the guilty are found and justice is served.

  • mynmx
    December 21, 2007 at 10:14 am

    Unfortunately, sad but true, there are people serving in the military that are not citizens and have been promised papers in return for their service. In fact, there are cases of families fighting for that citizenship for that solider posthumously.
    In fact, please research to find the articles describing how our country has recruited in Latin America and elsewhere for soldiers with promises of citizenship.
    Please, I know you think I am the bad guy, since I was cast as “pro-illegal”, but sadly, you only have so much information. Its true, we have non-citizens fighting in the war. I read a lot, and I try to see both sides.
    That’s why I know that for the ranchers on the border, their properties have been degraded when many, many people have come over their lands. I get why they are upset. Unfortunately, the policy to funnel immigrants through Arizona meant that state suffered a great deal of the influx.
    As for Texas, historically, there has always been a large, hispanic population. In fact, I believe Texas has the highest number of hispanic elected officials (but I don’t know that for sure) and is infused with Mexican culture for its proximity, its history as formally part of Mexico, and because of the big trade that Texas does with Mexico today.
    EOT, I get why you would feel like it was unfair that the driver (since that is the only person ever responsible, and not the people inside the van) did not have insurance or respond to the damage. However, I assume the driver did have a DL or else the person would have been taken in for that reason alone.
    I am pro-human. What has bothered me from the beginning is that…ok, now get this, we already had 12 million people here without documentation when suddenly immigration became a huge issue. Mainly, these are Mexican immigrants, probably 80% (so don’t worry, reading a book or two on Mexico should cover a great deal of the people that are so heartlessly called ‘illegals’).
    The unfairness, and what feels racist, is that this was a practice that had been accepted – enough so that 12 million people were here in the country, hired by US employers, living in homes and buying products – one day people wake up and make a huge deal about this fact. Now, what do you do with 12 million people? To suddenly cry foul, and attach all these awful names to immigrants, using words like anchor babies, and suggesting that the whole lot of these people are bad is what hurts, and makes me feel you aren’t very nice.
    To enforce a law that has instead become custom is unfair. Im not saying don’t enforce immigration laws – Im saying, deal fairly with the fact that this country allowed, permitted, participated in this system that saw 12m people come into this country without papers and everyone knew.
    I grew up with the belief that this country is all about fairness, when I read history books in school, I could see how the U.S. had walked out of a painful, difficult history for people of all races that were not white. We as a nation looked at our policies in the 60’s and 70’s and decided we should stand for something better. I just wish we had some visionary leaders who can really address this problem by taking into account everyone. Leaders who can find fair approaches that do not see making suddenly 12 million people who cleaned, served, washed, dried, and cooked for this country to suddenly be the only suspects.
    We as a nation should be responsible to clean up our mistakes in a human way, not suddenly crying foul and pointing the finger only to the immigrants. When I hear the approach promoted, it just makes me sad to be an American, and no, I am not planning on leaving. I am a U.S. Citizen, and I will be a part of shaping this country to be all that it can be.
    As to my background, whether I am hispanic or not, first, did I ask you if you were white? Should that be a criteria, my race? Isn’t that racist of you to even question? Are you suggesting that only hispanic people can side with immigrants and a fair approach to immigration? And you don’t think your racist?
    For the record, I am a beautiful rainbow of cultures. So for you, its my white side talking.

  • Evelyn
    December 21, 2007 at 11:00 am

    Frank, Horace, Eyes
    See how easy it is to state your opinion without lying or using propaganda to demonize the Immigrants especially Hispanics.
    Even thought I don’t agree with your views, and opinions, you are certainly entitled to express them. I will be watching and will challenge you when you lie or use propaganda to demonize the Immigrants!
    Frank Our country is at stake because of the burgeoning crises (up 40% in last 2 yrs) of ignorant racists hell bent on destroying it.
    I would choose the Mexicans, because the cost of bringing them here would be less and because they are already Americans, and I believe not only should this country be strong but also this continent. Look at the Europeans, their euro is worth more than the dollar because they have united instead of letting a few racists divide them.

  • Liquidmicro
    December 21, 2007 at 11:08 am

    I have a quick question?? First, you, Evelyn, have been stating how ‘Illegals’ are so noble based on there hard work and crying foul if anybody states anything contradicting to what you perceive of these “illegal aliens”. Then you come up with the following paragraphs where as you state $1200 being left behind, more than once. Then the all telling statement by you: “”One of their own” wouldn’t leave $1.200 behind, trust me.” Now you are implying that had it been an “Illegal” then he would have also taken the money, which in fact is equal to you calling them THIEVES!! So, either you are lying to yourself…. or you have been lying to all in here about the truth of “Illegals” being honorable.
    Quote by Evelyn:
    $1,200 was left behind in a wallet. The crime was a vicious one. They were all stabbed in the heart to make sure they were dead.
    Why would you suggest it was one of them? Are you the one with that Cristal ball rumored to be used by me, cause I know I don’t have it. Were you there? Do you know who did it? Was it you? “One of their own” wouldn’t leave $1.200 behind, trust me. Why are you suggesting these men were in the wrong place at the wrong time? That’s dumb! Unless you have an ulterior motive. It wasn’t an accident, you know. It was cold blooded murder!

  • Les
    December 21, 2007 at 12:26 pm

    Everyone shouldr ealize it is the holidays and the poiint is there is a family that has lost 4 people. My family is all from Mexico and none of them would take a dollar from anyone. Americans are the thieves.

  • Frank
    December 21, 2007 at 12:36 pm

    Evelyn, the racists aren’t on the law abiding American side. We are not the ones advocating the illegal entry into our country by those like us ethnically. Now just who would that be?

    December 21, 2007 at 2:05 pm

    Let me clear the air one more time. If any of you knew anything about my life, you would realize that calling me a racist couldn’t be further from the truth. So far in this blog my statements have been twisted to satisfy your need to call someone a racist because they are 180% from your position on immigration and illegal aliens. Opps, there’s that dirty word again; illegal aliens.
    I have no “whites only” agenda, nor am I a member of any of the organizations that you keep trying to connect me with. My arguement is as simple as securing all US borders, all immigrants learn and speak English, and assimilate to American culture.
    So, before you jump to any conclusions, listen to your own rhetoric in support of people that have broken the law, overloaded and dumbed-up our educational system and put a extreme burden on the legal tax paying citizens of our country. Most, but not all, on this blog that support illegal immigration and the plight of illegal aliens do so because of common race or skin color. Sounds pretty racist to me.

  • Frank
    December 21, 2007 at 10:19 pm

    les, so no Mexican ever breaks laws or steals anything? Only Americans? You have got to be kidding me!

  • Evelyn
    December 21, 2007 at 10:52 pm

    Turned into the devil in the Exorcist all of a sudden with your little green bile spewing of misconceptions about Immigrants, or were you talking about your FAMILY when you spewed “overloaded and dumbed-up our educational system and put an extreme burden on the tax paying citizens.” From the looks of things here it’s not only your family that has dumbed-up our educational system, so have you!
    Produce the link to back up your little hate speech, or are we to assume you are a BIGOT!

  • Evelyn
    December 21, 2007 at 10:58 pm

    Hay you, liquidmickrow
    or whatever you name is, Stay off the crack pipe before you post, so people can understand you.

  • Liquidmicro
    December 22, 2007 at 10:27 am

    I comment on your knowledge of knowing that, “had it been one of their own, they would have taken the money”, and you reply by calling me names??!!
    Surely you could respond with some intelligence, or do I need to ‘Dumb things down for you’??!! Maybe your forked tongue is what got you into trouble.

  • Frank
    December 22, 2007 at 6:19 pm

    Liquidmicro, FYI Eveyln comes from another forum so full of hate filled and insulting racists that I think it has fried her brain.

  • Liquidmicro
    December 22, 2007 at 8:31 pm

    Are you talking HBF, Frank or another?? I have read her insults there, it seems all she knows is insults. She keeps pointing to a AILF document as the gospel truth, yet when reading it, it doesn’t distinguish anything between ‘Legal’ or ‘Illegal’. Whats funnier is that she can’t get the link correct, she tried twice and its still wrong.

  • Frank
    December 23, 2007 at 7:56 am

    Yes liquidmicro, that is the forum that Evelyn posts in. You know the one where most of the members hate White people.

  • Evelyn
    December 25, 2007 at 12:32 am

    Franks Interpretation of TRUTH=hate filled and insulting racists. Frank and his cohorts don’t like TRUTH because it helps expose Frank to the world as a “hate filled and insulting racist”.
    That’s what happens when first you “LIE ON ONE SIDE, AND THEN YOU LIE ON THE OTHER”.

    December 26, 2007 at 2:58 pm

    I have encountered all type on this blog, but only one is so open about showing her hatred and racist agenda. Now, to say she hates those that oppose her views would be an understatement and her replies do not have any substance, only the same old name calling and her assumption that everyone that is anti-illegal immigration is therefore a racist.
    I mentioned over crowded schools and the dumbing-down of our educational system and she asks for a link to back up my statement. Knowing quiet well that any link I provide will get her racist stamp of disapproval. For that reason I will only say the web is full of studies that show what I stated is fact and she can look them up herself.
    From the other web site she posts in , I can fully understand where she gets her delusional ideas and where she obtains her venom and hatred of white America.

  • Frank
    December 26, 2007 at 5:48 pm

    Evelyn, all anyone has to do is read the posts in that forum to see how many white hating racists there are in it. The remarks don’t even have to be about a white posting in that forum. They are general hateful remarks about white people. Try and deny it.

    December 27, 2007 at 4:24 pm

    She must be in the Holiday Spirits or she would have come out from under the baseboard by now to launch another attack.
    Wishing all a happy and prosperous New Year.

  • Evelyn
    December 27, 2007 at 9:02 pm

    Your attempt to twist the truth is pitiful.
    Now you are calling “advocates for Immigrants and Hispanics” white hating racists.
    You are pitiful, are you aware that many of the people that post on that forum are white, but not racists.

  • Frank
    December 28, 2007 at 9:50 am

    Evelyn, the majority of the members in that forum are Hispanic. The Whites in that forum are just as racist against other Whites. I guess they are self-hating.
    I don’t have to call anyone in that forum “white hating racists”, they prove it by their own words in their posts.
    The people in that forum are not advocates for “immigrants” they are advocates for “illegal aliens” and since most of the illegals are ethnically like most of the members of that forum, that makes them the racists, not white people.

  • Evelyn
    December 28, 2007 at 3:00 pm

    Eyes cant tell the difference between an attack, and those who defend Immigrants and Hispanics. LOL! She is confused just like Frank! I wonder if it has something to do with the water? You might want to sign up for a class teaching “COMPREHENSION” dear.
    I’m so sorry you thought I lived under someones baseboard, like you. I happen to live in a comfortable house on 10 acres with a pond.
    Now, if you let me know how to get in touch with you , I will be glad to take you in, and get you a job till you get on your feet. So so sad, especially this time of year.

  • Frank
    December 28, 2007 at 5:51 pm

    Evelyn, I am not the least bit confused. We have immigration laws. I, like most loyal Americans expect them to be honored and enforced.
    12 million plus illegal aliens in this country is an invasion.

  • Evelyn
    December 29, 2007 at 11:50 am

    If You and “most Americans” are sooo in favor of not breaking any laws. Why do you support and conspire with those brave men and women who BROKE the laws of England and King George 3rd., and fought in the American Revolution to secure our freedom, by staying here?
    Put your money where your mouth is, and repatriate yourself to you ancestral homeland.
    Or are you only ready to be a strict law abider when it has to do with a group of people you hate, and it serves your purpose as an excuse to further your agenda of hate!

  • Frank
    December 29, 2007 at 6:51 pm

    Evelyn, you are a basketfull of assumptions, aren’t you? Where did anyone in here including myself say that we advocated any lawbreakers past or present? WHERE EVELYN? Now you are going all the way back to King George? None of us alive today were alive then. What do their actions have to do with us?
    I was born here! I am a citizen of THIS country! Why should I go back to a country where I am not a citizen of and not welcomed just because my ancestors were from somewhere else? Do you know how ridiculous you sound?
    Stop with the insults in here! I don’t have an agenda of hate. To call me a hater is to call the majority of Americans haters and also our government. We have the most generous legal immigration policy in the world.

    December 31, 2007 at 3:13 pm

    Talk about comprehension and making assumpsions as to who I am has shown you are not paying attention. Did you not see my earlier posts defending myself against your squeals of racism when I spoke of my American born Mexican American ex-wife of 20 years? Or of my service in the USN between 1968-1972 aboard a ship. Those years were male only aboard war ships. So, now you have gone and disqualified yourself as someone who can comprehend, only make assumptions seasoned with a few fits of childish name calling.

  • Gomez
    January 1, 2008 at 11:45 pm

    Hello, i am a Mexican LEGAL immigrant, i have been in the country for less than a year, i speak English, i pay my taxes, i have my car insurance, my bank account, etc… i think that all your point of views are valid, i have seen the necessity on this third world country called Mexico, and i agree that many immigrants are unprepared and unskilled, they come here for necessity,
    but i also have seen a lot of poor, ignorant, unprepared and bad english speaking americans, that complain about everything
    they blame us immigrants because they can not get a good job, its not my fault that lots of immigrants (not all) are taking their jobs because they are not fit for the positions
    i have seen on your postings, maybe you have considered only the stereotypes but i have known a lot of prepared people with Bachelor’s or Master’s, good English and lot of experience; working as janitors because they can’t get work authorization these people are desperate to work that’s what motivates them.
    but well in the end i think that all of you are correct depending on the POV, I just wanted to give you some perspective from a Mexican.
    Thank you and happy new year 🙂

  • Frank
    January 2, 2008 at 7:52 am

    Gomez, we aren’t accusing immigrants of taking our jobs. Illegal aliens are doing so in many cases. Being a legal immigrant, you don’t know the difference between legal and illegal?
    Americans complaining about this or that is their right but has nothing to do with the fact that entering this country illegally and violating our labor laws is against the law.

  • Evelyn
    January 2, 2008 at 9:10 pm

    Gomez has 3 qualities that are lacking in the resident racists.
    Huevos, morals, and compassion!

  • Frank
    January 3, 2008 at 2:58 pm

    Since when is it moral to dishonor our laws? You and those like you choose compassion for illegal foreigners over compassion for your fellow American citizens. I see no nobility in that.

Comments are closed.