Latina Lista: News from the Latinx perspective > Palabra Final > Immigration > Misinformation is the Weapon of Choice with Immigration Reform Critics

Misinformation is the Weapon of Choice with Immigration Reform Critics

LatinaLista — If we are to believe those who preach that this nation is under a “brown invasion” and that every undocumented immigrant is a bone-chilling criminal, then we can agree that states like Arizona, that routinely register the highest number of illegal crossings, must literally be the Gates of Hell in being an access point where undocumented immigrants are streaming in and wreaking havoc on towns and communities.
If that was the case, then the crime rate for Arizona should resemble the days of the old West when gun-toting, stagecoach robbers ruled the tumbleweeded landscape.
After all, the Minute Men say it’s true, some Arizona lawmakers obviously believe it and, of course, the police. They’re the ones who have to keep the communities safe from these invaders and they know firsthand the dangers that they pose.

Mesa Police Chief George Gascon
So, it must be blasphemy to the ears of everyone mentioned when Mesa, Arizona’s police chief, George Gascón, recently wrote a piece for the local newspaper saying that all these critics fanning the flames of anti-immigrant feelings are as full of hot air as the desert.

I often hear talk about the scourge of crimes by immigrants who are here illegally. In fact, I have heard how unauthorized immigrants are responsible for as much as 90 percent of the serious crime in Mesa.
The problem with this assertion is that it is not supported by the facts.

From there on, Chief Gascon compares the facts of the arguments to the accusations, guess which side always wins?
It is a point that those of us who believe in a fair and humane approach to creating a solution to the illegal immigration problem can’t make enough — that the statements being shouted out are meant to frighten and are extreme exaggerations of the real truth.
So, in another effort to set the record straight:
Undocumented immigrants aren’t as criminally inclined as they are portrayed to be.
Sure, there are some who are criminals. Just like there are Americans who are criminals — and I mean the worst kind of criminals — people who take lives, rape, rob and endanger other people with their actions.
But on a national scale, thankfully, the percentage of people, citizens or not, who do this kind of behavior is small. Otherwise, more than half of the population would be locked up if critics exaggerated as much for this element as they do with undocumented immigrants.
It doesn’t help that ordinary people/bloggers trying to set the record straight on misinformation about undocumented immigrants aren’t experts in the field dealing directly with the statistics. So, it’s incredibly important that professionals like Chief Gascon come forward to set the record straight.
If they are dismissed by the critics, it’s a sure sign that these critics aren’t interested in the truth, finding a solution or even the welfare of the country.
They’re in this debate for themselves.
As Chief Gascon said in closing:

Unquestionably, unauthorized immigration presents many problems nationally, and a thoughtful rational policy at the federal level must be developed to correct these problems. However, disproportionate criminality by people who are here illegally is not one of those problems.
Maximizing public safety in a community is a complex endeavor that requires public trust, thoughtful strategies and, above all, a clear understanding of the problems based on accurate information. In Mesa, we have done just that for the past 13 months, and the results have been very favorable.

Now, if we can only spread this message — loud and clear.

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  • Horace
    October 18, 2007 at 6:01 pm

    Not an invasion? Defend this 2006 incursion by Mexicans. We don’t need no steeeking fence, do we?
    Police face Mexican military, smugglers
    Armed standoff along U.S. border
    By Sara A. Carter and Kenneth Todd Ruiz, Staff Writers
    Article Date: 01/23/2006 12:00:23 AM PST
    Mexican soldiers and civilian smugglers had an armed standoff with nearly 30 U.S. law enforcement officials on the Rio Grande in Texas Monday afternoon, according to Texas police and the FBI.
    Mexican military Humvees were towing what appeared to be thousands of pounds of marijuana across the border into the United States, said Chief Deputy Mike Doyal, of the Hudspeth County Sheriff’s Department.
    Mexican Army troops had several mounted machine guns on the ground more than 200 yards inside the U.S. border — near Neely’s Crossing, about 50 miles east of El Paso — when Border Patrol agents called for backup. Hudspeth County deputies and Texas Highway patrol officers arrived shortly afterward, Doyal said.
    “It’s been so bred into everyone not to start an international incident with Mexico that it’s been going on for years,” Doyal said. “When you’re up against mounted machine guns, what can you do? Who wants to pull the trigger first? Certainly not us.”
    An FBI spokeswoman confirmed the incident happened at 2:15 p.m. Pacific Time.
    “Bad guys in three vehicles ended up on the border,” said Andrea Simmons, a spokeswoman with the FBI’s El Paso office. “People with Humvees, who appeared to be with the Mexican Army, were involved with the three vehicles in getting them back across.”
    Simmons said the FBI was not involved and referred inquiries to U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement.
    ICE did not return calls seeking comment.
    Doyal said deputies captured one vehicle in the incident, a Cadillac Escalade reportedly stolen from El Paso, and found 1,477 pounds of marijuana inside. The Mexican soldiers set fire to one of the Humvees stuck in the river, he said.
    Doyal’s deputies faced a similar incident on Nov. 17, when agents from the Fort Hancock border patrol station in Texas called the sheriff’s department for backup after confronting more than six fully armed men dressed in Mexican military uniforms. The men — who were carrying machine guns and driving military vehicles — were trying to bring more than three tons of marijuana across the Rio Grande, Doyal said.
    Doyal said such incidents are common at Neely’s Crossing, which is near Fort Hancock, Texas, and across from the Mexican state of Chihuahua.
    “It happens quite often here,” he said.
    Deputies and border patrol agents are not equipped for combat, he added.
    “Our government has to do something,” he said. “It’s not the immigrants coming over for jobs we’re worried about. It’s the smugglers, Mexican military and the national threat to our borders that we’re worried about.”
    Citing a Jan. 15 story in the Daily Bulletin, Reps. David Dreier, R-Glendora, and Duncan Hunter, R-San Diego, last week asked the House Judiciary Committee, Department of Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff, the House Homeland Security Committee and the House International Relations Committee to investigate the incursions. The story focused on a Department of Homeland Security document reporting 216 incursions by Mexican soldiers during the past 10 years and a map with the seal of the president’s Office of National Drug Control Policy, both of which were given to the newspaper.
    Requests by Dreier, chairman of the House Rules Committee, and Hunter were made in jointly signed letters.
    On Wednesday, Chertoff played down the reports of border incursions by the Mexican military. He suggested many of the incursions could have been mistakes, blaming bad navigation by military personnel or attributing the incursions to criminals dressed in military garb.
    Mexican officials last week denied any incursions made by their military.
    But border agents interviewed over the past year have discussed confrontations those they believe to be Mexican military personnel.
    “We’re sitting ducks,” said a border agent speaking on condition of anonymity. “The government has our hands tied.”

  • Horace
    October 18, 2007 at 6:24 pm

    Everything’s coming up roses according to you, Marisa. Is this misinformation?
    Man crisscrossed border with TB
    By Sara A. Carter and Audrey
    A Mexican national infected with a highly contagious form of tuberculosis crossed the U.S. border 76 times and took multiple domestic flights in the past year, according to Customs and Border Protection interviews and documents obtained by The Washington Times.
    The Customs and Border Protection (CBP) agency was warned by health officials on April 16 that the frequent traveler was infected, but it took Homeland Security officials more than six weeks to issue a May 31 alert to warn its own border inspectors, according to Homeland Security sources who spoke on the condition of anonymity for fear of retribution. Homeland Security took a further week to tell its own Transportation Security Agency.
    Multi-drug-resistant tuberculosis (MDR-TB) is a highly contagious illness and also resistant to the two most commonly used drugs to treat TB. It is the same dangerous strain of tuberculosis that concerned health officials when Andrew Speaker, a 31-year-old Atlanta lawyer, slipped into the U.S. from Europe via a flight to Canada. The story set off alarms that the system had failed to identify the contagious passenger, which led to congressional hearings in June.
    A physician with the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) said that his agency usually only notifies airlines of possibly infected passengers if the flight is eight hours or longer. But other doctors say the disease can be transmitted within minutes — especially in people with lowered immunity — and recommend that anyone coming in contact with this form of TB seek medical attention.
    World Health Organization guidelines, which were rewritten in 2006 and adopted by the CDC, state that “physicians should inform all MDR-TB patients that they must not travel by air — under any circumstances or on a flight of any duration until they are proven” not to have the disease.
    “You can argue that even one single cough would transmit TB, which is, in fact, what is probably happening,” said Dr. Mario Raviglione, director of the WHO’s Stop TB department, in a conference call with reporters in June. “It was seen that at least eight hours were required for someone to infect someone else. It does not mean that you cannot get infected in the first one minute, but it means statistically speaking that it’s much less likely to get infected until your hours of contact increase.”
    Christopher White, Transportation Security Administration spokesman, said TSA was notified on the morning of June 7 by Homeland Security officials “that a person infected with MDR-TB may be attempting to use the U.S. transportation system.”
    “TSA leadership quickly convened, and the individual was added to our no-board list” in a matter of four hours, Mr. White said.
    In that time, the infected man, identified as Amado Isidro Armendariz Amaya, made at least one more trip across the U.S. border, on May 21, where he applied for an I-94 visa to extend his stay in the U.S.
    Roger Maier, spokesman with El Paso CBP says the delay for issuing a “be on the lookout” (BOLO) alert to stop the man at the border was caused by the traveler’s use of an alias.
    Attempts to identify the subject failed “because information provided to Mexican health officials is not accurate” when an alias is used, Mr. Maier said in an e-mail. “Efforts to obtain solid data … were achieved on May 31.”
    Other documents reveal that the Mexican government had known for more than five years of the condition of Mr. Armendariz, a businessman from Juarez, a city in the Mexican state of Chihuahua across the Rio Grande from El Paso, Texas. The officials who spoke on that condition of anonymity said, “Information sharing is still at an all-time low, if not nonexistent, in issues such as these.”
    “For the first five years, he self-medicated and was noncompliant [with] Mexican State Health Department treatments. … His father and sister both died of TB in Chihuahua,” an internal DHS e-mail states.
    Homeland Security employees were told in June that they would be fired if the situation with Mr. Armendariz went public. At the same time, DHS officials were preparing to testify before Congress regarding the Speaker case, which had been front-page news across the nation.
    The congressional investigation found that the CDC lacks a reliable means of preventing someone infected with a biological agent from entering or leaving the U.S. Congressional committees have taken up a bill to amend the Foreign Assistance Act of 1961 to provide more assistance in preventing, treating and controlling tuberculosis.
    Meanwhile in El Paso, Luis Garcia, director of CBP field operations, fired off a June 1 message to his employees to be on the lookout for Mr. Armendariz: “In response to this possible health and safety threat, the El Paso Field Office is working with CDC and the State Health Department to provide tuberculosis testing for any officer and/or employee at the El Paso Port of Entry who may choose to take the test.”
    The Juarez businessman was identified as “a frequent border crosser” who “frequently travels by air into the United States,” according to the alert issued by the Customs and Border Protection El Paso Field Office Operations Center that included a photo of Mr. Armendariz.
    “Subject has a very dangerous and contagious strain of TB,” the alert said. “He is a public health threat to others and should be masked and placed in isolation immediately.”
    The alert also recommended that CBP officers wear masks and rubber gloves “when conducting a personal search” and isolate him among detainees.
    The foreign national “flew in the U.S. on Delta Airlines to Atlanta and Salt Lake City, he flew on US Air/Am West to Phoenix. No specific dates were provided just that these flights were in Nov. 2006, Jan. 2007 and May 2007,” according to documents obtained by The Washington Times.
    Both airlines were asked whether and when they were informed by Homeland Security or CDC officials that the infected foreign national had been a passenger on recent flights or of the possible contamination risks to fellow passengers.
    US Airways and Delta Air Lines both declined to answer, citing passenger privacy issues.
    “These events are of grave concern regarding the inability of CBP El Paso managers, along with those working with CDC to adequately address the important U.S. homeland security mission against bioterrorism as well,” said another DHS official familiar with the incident. “How can we realistically expect them to protect us and the rest of these United States?”
    Dr. Martin Cetron, director of the CDC’s Division of Global Migration and Quarantine, said that people with active infectious tuberculosis should not travel, but studies have shown that transmission is more likely on long-haul flights of eight hours or more.
    “To my understanding, all the right effective steps were taken to protect the individual who was infected as well as the public,” Dr. Cetron said. “One of the things at the top of my list on this talk is how do we maintain current and accurate information in order to manage infectious disease threats on a global scale from the local, state, national and international jurisdictions in order to protect privacy and prevent the transfer of the illness.”
    An MDR-TB patient who is not complying with health regulations may be required to undergo supervised treatment for 18 to 24 months to ensure that the complete medical regimen is followed, said Dr. Greg Ciottone, assistant professor of medicine at Harvard University.
    “Yes, any person who had close or continued contact with him needs to go in and get tested,” Dr. Ciottone said. “If anyone comes in contact with MDR-TB in our hospital, they get tested. MDR-TB is active until you are under full treatment and your tests come back” negative.

  • Horace
    October 18, 2007 at 6:30 pm

    Here are some people who disagree with you. Are they racists?
    Anti-immigration Hispanics speak out
    Star-Telegram staff writer
    LISA NAVARRETE At an anti-deportation march in Irving on Saturday, one of the leaders told the mostly Hispanic crowd, “We want to send a message that there is no division in our community. We are one.”
    But some Hispanics were there to undermine that statement and demonstrate a sticking point in the immigration debate: Many Hispanics are among the strongest opponents of illegal immigration.
    “We’ve been here 38 years, and we deserve to be here, not some illegal immigrants,” said Eva Hinojosa, whose parents were from Mexico. “They should go back to their own country; they don’t belong here.”
    She and her husband, Enrique Hinojosa, both of Irving, stood with about 125 counterprotesters who support Irving’s Criminal Alien Program. The program has led to the deportation of more than 1,600 illegal immigrants in the past 13 months.
    “They want to take our country over. We’re not going to stand for that,” said Enrique Hinojosa, a sixth-generation American.
    Both sides of the debate say Hispanics are on their side. Each can point to polls.
    A Gallup Poll taken in June, for example, shows that Hispanics have more positive views of immigration than blacks or Anglos, with three-quarters of Hispanics calling immigration a good thing. But more than half of Hispanics say that the United States has too many immigrants from Latin America.
    ‘Not alone’
    Sara Legvold, originally from Cuba and now a naturalized U.S. citizen living in Keller, was among the residents who pressed JPS Health Network last month not to allow illegal immigrants into its preventive healthcare program for poor people. The Fort Worth-based county hospital continues to deny access to illegal immigrants.
    Sam Aceves of Farmers Branch, whose grandfather was from Mexico, campaigned for the city’s ban on renting apartments to illegal immigrants. Voters approved the measure in May by a 2-1 ratio, although the ban is now tied up in the courts.
    Legvold and Aceves scoffed at any idea that they should be on the other side of the debate.
    “They’re here as invaders, as illegal aliens, as criminals,” Legvold said. “When I see they’re being favored over American citizens in every way, yes, I am outraged, and I am not alone.”
    Aceves described illegal immigrants as criminals and said he drives his daughter to another school so she won’t have to go to class in the Carrollton-Farmers Branch school district, which he perceives as overcrowded with illegal immigrants.
    These viewpoints have a voice on the national level with You Don’t Speak for Me, a Hispanic group appalled at what it calls anti-American acts by the pro-immigration movement.
    Al Rodriguez, a retired U.S. Army colonel, said he started the organization in May 2006 when he saw pro-immigrant marchers take down American flags.
    “That’s what really hurt me, as I’m a military retiree,” he said. “I said, ‘Well, wait a minute, these folks aren’t speaking for us.'”
    Rodriguez said his group quickly grew to more than 5,000 members.
    Hispanic activists on the other side of the issue downplay the influence of activists such as Rodriguez.
    Lisa Navarrete, vice president of the pro-immigrant National Council of La Raza, said Hispanics overwhelmingly favor her group’s effort to legalize illegal immigrants.
    She said her opponents in the immigration debate cling to groups such as You Don’t Speak for Me to hide their anti-Hispanic bias.
    “I think it provides an awful lot of cover for the anti-immigration movement … the same way the conservative movement has raised up a lot of conservative African-Americans,” she said.
    Brent Wilkes, national executive director for the League of United Latin American Citizens, said You Don’t Speak for Me is just a “front group” set up by the Federation for American Immigration Reform, a Washington, D.C.-based group that wants to tighten immigration enforcement.
    “These Latinos are duped,” he said. “When they had slavery, I suppose they were able to find a couple of African-Americans out there who said it was a good thing.”
    Aceves said he’s often called a traitor for his stance.
    “I get threatened. I got my house paintballed. I’ve been called traitor. They got their little kids to call me vicious names,” he said.
    Rodriguez said he has suffered similar treatment and has been called Tio Taco, a wordplay on Uncle Tom.
    Carlos Quintanilla, the activist who organized Saturday’s anti-deportation march in Irving, discounted the thicket of news cameras the Hinojosas attracted as they lambasted illegal immigrants.
    “In every community, you’re going to have difference of opinion,” he said. “The media always highlights Hispanics speaking about it, but we received a lot of letters and e-mails from Anglos supporting our position. ”
    Both sides of the immigration debate say Hispanics are on their side. Gallup Poll results show that 55 percent of Hispanics think there are too many immigrants from Latin America, but their responses to other questions show that they view immigration more positively than Anglos or blacks.
    Three-quarters of Hispanics think immigration is good for the U.S., while only 59 percent of Anglos and 55 percent of blacks do.
    Only 30 percent of Hispanics think immigration should be reduced, while 46 percent of blacks and 48 percent of Anglos do.
    More than half of Anglos (63 percent) and blacks (52 percent) believe that immigration increases crime, but only 41 percent of Hispanics agree.
    About half of blacks and Anglos think immigrants are hurting the economy. But 55 percent of Hispanics believe that immigrants are helping the economy.
    Source: Gallup Poll data from June 2007
    Hispanics’ growing numbers give them a powerful voice in the immigration debate.
    In 2003, the U.S. Census Bureau announced that Hispanics’ higher birth and immigration rates had made them the largest minority group in the country. They made up nearly 15 percent of the population in 2006.
    Latin America is a major source of immigration to the U.S. The federal Homeland Security Department’s Office of Immigration Statistics estimates that 57 percent of illegal immigrants in the U.S. come from Mexico. Nearly 84,000 Mexicans became U.S. citizens last year. That was 12 percent of all people who became citizens, a larger proportion than from any other country.
    Patrick McGee, 817-685-3806

  • Frank
    October 18, 2007 at 7:34 pm

    The fact remains that irregardless of any crime stats available for illegal aliens one thing can’t be denied, they are all guilty of violating our immigration laws and deportation is warranted.

  • diana joe
    October 18, 2007 at 7:50 pm


  • diana joe
    October 18, 2007 at 8:01 pm

    Divide and Coquer-it’s atractive to any race…why does the government stay quiet about all the hype because the tactic is for the people to fight amongst themselves to the point of -well horace has it all figured out for us..just keep yer eye on ‘im.

  • Frank
    October 18, 2007 at 9:08 pm

    Right, and those who don’t follow our laws are the dividers but we won’t let them conquer us law abiding citizens.

  • miguel
    October 18, 2007 at 9:08 pm

    In an effort to get dialog going on this serious issue affecting all of us, I would like to give Horace and Frank the following baseline.
    We build a wall the entire length of the border with Mexico and Canada. We top it with razor wire. We install machine gun towers the entire length and man it with volunteers like Frank and Horace. We install mine fields between the wall and a second fence that has guard dogs on patrol along the entire fence line. If the people coming coming across manage to make it past the machine gun fire, manage to make it through the mine field and the guard dogs and manage to escape into the general population we let them stay. Would that satisfy Frank and Horace? If not maybe we can deport them back and go for 2 out of 3. Still not good enough?
    Offer your options on how to stop this illegal flood because the above was tried in Germany for 28 years and people still ran the gauntlet.
    How about sitting down and discussing solutions or would you rather try your luck at target practice? We will still be here after the last bullet is fired.

  • yave begnet
    October 18, 2007 at 9:24 pm

    The Washington Times … a reliable news source if ever there was one. Reliable for nativist hysteria, at least.
    I suppose the GOP tent is just big enough to let in a few restrictionist Latinos who can join the token black Republicans for the GOP to trot out at the RNC for propaganda purposes. Not that their views aren’t genuine, just that they’re being used and don’t seem to realize it. And here’s the rub: there aren’t that many of them. Nobody seems to know why … it’s one of the great enigmas of modern life.
    Looks like we need to crack down on globetrotting lawyers from Atlanta–what part of “dangerous health risk” don’t you understand? TB means TB! I propose a moratorium on international travel for anyone from the state of Georgia.
    So now drug smugglers are “invading” the U.S. –at least they were nearly two years ago, but a little story can go a long way in Greater Wingnuttia. Tell me, what territory did they occupy? What battles were fought? Why did no one notify the U.S. armed forces? How come no one told the American public we were under attack by the Mexican army? Someone may need a visit to the dictionary to review the definition of the word “invade.”
    Why don’t we bring home the 150,000 troops from Iraq and station them along the border with Mexico (send a few units up to Canada so people don’t “pull the race card” and complain). That would kill two birds with one stone.
    Better yet, why don’t you paste another bunch of dubious nativist news articles at a pro-migrant blog. That’s the way to persuade … hearts and minds, baby, hearts and minds.

  • Frank
    October 19, 2007 at 8:24 am

    miguel, there wouldn’t be a need for half of the extreme measures you are suggesting. A double fence like what has been proposed would suffice. And no, I don’t think that those that make it past this fence should be given sanctuary then. I don’t think that Cubans who make it to dry land should be given refuge either.
    A fence will not stop illegal immigration entirely and that isn’t the purpose. It is to assist the BP and cut back illegal immigration. It will work for that intended purpose.
    yave, MSM isn’t telling us everything because Washington doesn’t want us to know everything. If you will look up the word invasion yourself you will see that it fits the bill with what is going on in our country today.
    I am all for bringing home the troops from Iraq and putting them on our southern and northern border. Good idea!

  • miguel
    October 19, 2007 at 9:32 am

    frank said:
    I don’t think that Cubans who make it to dry land should be given refuge either.
    So now repeal the 1966 Cuban Adjustment Act? I say this for your Frank, you are consistent with your view of immigrants, even with those the law allows to be here LEGALLY, per the LAW.
    Frank said :
    Since we don’t know if someone is crossing our border to look for work or is a terrorist, I would say we need to treat them just as the thief at a 7-11. Of course, they should be WARNED first and it should be made known world wide that this will be our new policy with the BP or put the military on the border.
    It will be the illegals choice then whether he/she wants to take the chance and get shot at.
    Right, I hate the illegal invasion of our country by any illegals. That doesn’t equate to racism its equates to the survivalism of my country.
    With this view, I thought the idea of manning a machine gun would appeal to you. I hope our returning military men and women would be allowed to rest instead of having to chase ghosts in your phony invasion theory.

  • Frank
    October 19, 2007 at 9:46 am

    Securing our borders would be a lot easier for our troops than fighting the war in Iraq. Isn’t having a military afterall about protecting our country? If you don’t think that 12-30 million illegal aliens in our country is an invasion then you are in total denial of reality.

  • miguel
    October 19, 2007 at 9:53 am

    Frank, the 50 million illegals here would not be able to leave this country if you post them on our borders. They would be trapped here. Is that what you envision or are still for deporting the 60 million illegals that are here?

  • Deport Lou Dobbs
    October 19, 2007 at 2:10 pm

    English only.

  • Frank
    October 19, 2007 at 3:38 pm

    miguel, are you really this dense? The military on the border and the fence is to keep people out not to keep them in. Anyone would be able to leave whenever they wanted too.
    Dobbs, incorrect spelling or a typo doesn’t equate to not having command of one’s own language or any other language, if that is what you are implying.
    As far as the English language bill currently in the House. It isn’t about English “only” it is about making English our “official” language. Anyone would still be able to speak any language they wanted to.
    Guess you oppose Mexico having Spanish as their “official” language?

  • miguel
    October 19, 2007 at 5:46 pm

    frank posted:
    miguel, are you really this dense? The military on the border and the fence is to keep people out not to keep them in. Anyone would be able to leave whenever they wanted too.
    Frank, tell me again why someone would want to leave after coming to the ‘land of the free?” At least a third of the US population is illegal now in the latest flood numbers.

  • Frank
    October 19, 2007 at 8:10 pm

    miguel, of course they don’t want to leave, we are a cash cow for the illegals. If they won’t leave voluntarily we will help them leave involuntarily. Doesn’t matter what they want. This country belongs to Americans not illegal foreigners.

  • Horace
    October 19, 2007 at 9:51 pm

    Getting out of the U.S. is simple, as the Mexican government is giving out matricular consular cards to anyone who claims to be Mexican. Mexicans can just walk across the official ports of entry into their homeland. These cards are basically worthless as representing the person who holds them but Mexico doesn’t care, as it does them no injury.

  • David O.
    October 20, 2007 at 8:31 am

    Wow Horace,
    Three examples, a drug crossing, one sick Mexican and two venditos, and you want Marisa to defend them?

  • David O.
    October 20, 2007 at 12:24 pm

    Horace wrote, “…We don’t need no steeeking fence, do we?”
    If you don’t want to be labeled as a racist then don’t use elite racist comments. It is known as Mock Spanish.

  • Horace
    October 20, 2007 at 3:53 pm

    Gee, David O, my apologies. I didn’t know that steeeeeeeking was a Spanish word.

  • David O.
    October 21, 2007 at 1:03 pm

    Spin it Horace, spin some more.

  • Omyword!
    October 22, 2007 at 10:30 am

    It is interesting to me that nobody addresses the actual blog post, or Gascón’s newspaper article, or discusses any success/failures that Gascón has had in Mesa. It’s a typical wingnut strategy to troll websites and hijack the discussion, just as it has happened here. Although I find many of the rebuttals well-said, if we feed the trolls, then there gets to be zero worthwhile, thoughtful discussion. All we do is react to the wingnuts. Sound familiar? It’s what Congress and the Democrats are doing now. Anyway…I was glad to read that somebody that knows what’s happening in terms of crime in his own area is speaking out about the facts.

  • David O.
    October 22, 2007 at 10:33 am

    Well said OhMyWord, well said indeed. Thank you for reminding us that we don’t have to respond to each and every post, or any for that matter, from the opposition.

  • Frank
    October 22, 2007 at 2:42 pm

    Ohmy, as in any discussion, it is easy to get off topic. One remark leads to another and first thing you know you end up talking about something else. I don’t find this to be earth shattering or devious on anyone’s part. It is just human nature.
    Maybe it is the liberal lefties that are the trolls. It is all a matter of perception, isn’t it?

  • yave begnet
    October 22, 2007 at 4:56 pm

    No, it’s not. As i’ve pointed out several times, “troll” in this context is a term used specifically to refer to disruptive postings in blog comment threads or discussion forums. A troll may have any number of motivations in posting, not all necessarily devious, and will often deny his/her own trollitude. Here is the definition from Wikipedia–I’d paste it but my computer doesn’t seem to be pasting at the moment.
    At this pro-immigrant blog, you and Horace are the trolls. It’s not a matter of perception, it’s a matter of empirically observable social dynamics. If I started posting comments at VDare or Lone Wacko, I would be a troll. The only reason I can see to dispute this is would be if your internet vocabulary is woefully deficient or if you are a troll of the first order. Educate yourself.
    And I know, omyword, “don’t feed …”, but these are an especially persistent bunch, and I’d been so so good for several posts now … all that restraint obviously out the window now.

  • Frank
    October 22, 2007 at 10:15 pm

    Disruptive postings? There shouldn’t be differences of opinons allowed or expressed in forums and blogs? If one gets upset over hearing someone elses opinion different than their own, then they are not very confident of their own opinion. Mature people will allow others their opinions without having to hurl insults and will debate civilly. I look at forums and blogs as a way to hear and express differences of opinions. It makes us realize how lucky we are to have freedom of speech in this country. I don’t feel edgy about hearing another opinion as I am very confident that I am on the right side of the issue. Those that get bothered with it are on the wrong side and that is why they get edgy about it.

  • diana joe
    October 22, 2007 at 11:28 pm

    in-leash only-
    legalize everything!

  • Deport Lou Dobbs
    October 23, 2007 at 8:23 am

    “The fact remains that irregardless…”
    Good thing proper “English Only” is not the standard or we would deport your dumb ass.

  • Frank
    October 23, 2007 at 9:14 am

    Dobbs, is that all you have is correcting someone’s grammar or spelling? This is a blog nobody but those with weak arguments gives a rats behind about such things.
    You can’t deport me. I am a U.S. citizen. By the way, how is that boycott of Dobbs coming along? LOL!

  • Deport Lou Dobbs
    October 23, 2007 at 9:15 am

    Horace mispoke and lied:
    “Everything’s coming up roses according to you, Marisa. Is this misinformation?
    Man crisscrossed border with TB
    By Sara A. Carter and Audrey
    A Mexican national infected with a highly contagious form of tuberculosis crossed the U.S. border”
    Juárez man with drug-resistant TB not contagious
    By Diana Washington Valdez / El Paso Times
    Article Launched: 10/20/2007 12:00:00 AM MDT
    The Juárez man with drug-resistant tuberculosis who reportedly crossed into the U.S. 76 times is not contagious, a doctor supervising his treatment said.
    Dr. Esteban Vlasich called the patient, identified by the Associated Press as Amado Isidro Armendariz Amaya, a typical patient.
    “We live with these kind of patients every single day,” said Vlasich, director of the Binational Tuberculosis Control Prevention Project Juntos, which is funded by the Texas Department of Health and the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
    “He feels very bad. He’s not a criminal. He’s an engineer who does consulting for heavy machinery equipment.”
    Horace, you are a liar with a racist agenda. Oh, I know now I will predict your next racist move-say you are not a racist and accuse me of “pulling the racist card.” Your predicatable and lame tricks may work with your fellow racist like little frankie but they do not work with me.
    God Bless America

  • Deport Lou Dobbs
    October 23, 2007 at 9:25 am

    The best thing about this blog is it gives you a chance to rant and thus allows your neighbors a further reprieve from becoming victims of your lunacy.
    Your life must be pathetic that you are always on sites like this to push your racist agenda. Oh, well, like I said at least it keeps your neighbors safe for another day.
    Now walk on over to the medicine cabinet…
    In 20 minutes I will be on my way to pursue a higher education. In 20 minutes you will still be in your dirty boxers eating a pop tart with lint on it and reaching not too deeply into your small mind to find another vent.
    Ha Ha Ha. Dumb Ass. This is not about issues. You do not know how to discuss issues. Any issue you disagree with you dismiss or you act as if you are an expert (like why Mexicans speaking Spanish being a gentic trait, omg!)on things you cannot accept.
    Oh, I forgot. F*ck you.

  • Frank
    October 23, 2007 at 12:05 pm

    Dobbs, I am not pushing any racist agenda. I don’t have anything against any race, color of skin or ethnicity. My opposition is to illegal aliens of any kind. How is that racist?
    I am retired, therefore I have the luxury of doing whatever I want to do. If I choose to be on the internet to try and enlighten other Americans about this invasion of our country, I am doing my patriotic duty. A good way to spend my retirement, trying to save our country.
    So you resort to personal insults, false accusations and profantiy now? How childish and immature! So typical of the pro-illegal, ethnocentric crowd. You represent them well.
    Marisa, could we have another warning in here about profanity and being civil? Thanks.

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