LatinaLista — It’s long been known that the United States role as a source of firearms contributes to the drug cartel violence in Mexico. While the federal government looks into reinstating a ban on assault weapons, it’s the border states that must enact tougher laws regulating gun control since cartel violence is literally at their proverbial doors.
This column is bound to hit a raw nerve with those of you who are against any kind of gun control. Yet, the days of trumpeting the entitlement of the Second Amendment and declaring restrictions on gun ownership as unpatriotic can no longer be accepted as worthy excuses to turn a blind eye to the escalating gun violence.
The list of senseless deaths at the end of a gun barrel is growing with alarming frequency — 11-year-old Pennsylvania boy kills father’s pregnant fiancée, 8-year-old Arizona boy shoots and kills father and family friend, gun fire barrage wounds seven, including 20-month-old baby at Mardi Gras parade — the list goes on, but they only account for part of the reason why it’s time to have the kind of gun control that makes supporters of the National Rifle Association (NRA) get up in arms (pun intended).
The major reason that it is imperative that the United States take a new look at gun control and how our culture has historically contributed to the level of gun violence we’re seeing today is because of what is happening with Mexico’s drug cartel bloodbath.
If the violence that has already taken the lives of over 6,000 Mexicans was merely an internal problem then those critics who feel Mexico is never doing enough to help its own people would be justified in saying Mexico should suffer the consequences.
Yet, the Mexican government is doing all they can to combat drug cartels armed with weapons that are outlawed in Mexico but purchased and smuggled from the United States.
Continue reading U.S. border states must enact tougher gun laws to combat drug cartel violence
U.S. border states must enact tougher gun laws to combat drug cartel violence
Comment(43)
Antonio Gonzalez
Really you believe the drugs
are important, then why the
american don’t stop the drugs
inside United State, they are
doing nothing on the american
street. They are looking for
something but no drugs.
Horace
“The list of senseless deaths at the end of a gun barrel is growing with alarming frequency — 11-year-old Pennsylvania boy kills father’s pregnant fiancée, 8-year-old Arizona boy shoots and kills father and family friend, gun fire barrage wounds seven, including 20-month-old baby at Mardi Gras parade — the list goes on, but they only account for part of the reason why it’s time to have the kind of gun control that makes supporters of the National Rifle Association (NRA) get up in arms (pun intended).”
Oh, really? Even if those people had registered weapons and were honest, law abiding citizens, most crimes committed with guns would still take place. Many incidents are caused by careless owners who fail to secure their them, and as the result, they fall into the wrong hands; children who play with them or use them to settle grudges with society. How would gun control, which is commonly promulgated as the registering of weapons, prevent that? Aside from that how many criminals are you going to convince to register their illicitly obtained weapons? You wouldn’t control any guns but those in the hands of citizens who possess them for the own protection. Tell us how gun control as envisioned by you would work to prevent crime or carelessness on the part of the owners, or are you just parroting the Democrat political line once again without much thought yourself
There is a theory that many of the M-16 rifles used by the cartels were obtained from corrupt soldiers in the Mexican Army and officers in their police force. I’ve heard that the Mexican government refuses to give U.S. authorities the serial numbers of weapons confiscated as the result of confrontations with the cartels because these same M-16s were likely given or sold to the Mexican government as foreign military sales. It is likely that they are covering up the losses due to the embarrassment such revelations would cause.
Horace
Oh, one more thing, if Mexico really cared about stopping firearms from entering the country, it might actually institute an inspection program for vehicles crossing its borders. How could they be so stupid as not to do this? Is it a Hispanic cultural thing?
Panchito
Horace calls Hispanics “stupid” because Mexico cannot control the flow of drugs into Mexico. Using his same line of reasoning, it would mean that “White folk” in the U.S. are also stupid since they cannot control the flow of illegals or drugs into the U.S. Therefore, Horace and his team of “angry white people” should stop whining about all the drugs and illegals crossing the U.S. border.
Lew Waters
I have a great idea, Marisa. Let’s lobby for a law making it illegal to steal guns and export stolen property into Mexico?
What? You mean that is already illegal?
Then again, you are a strong advocate for just ignoring other laws, are you not?
Sort of hypocritical to demand one law be enforced while advocating another be ignored.
Alessandra
It always amazes me when some people equate “American” with “white people.” American is a nationality not a race just as Mexican is a nationality and not a race. The U.S. is the most diverse nation on earth.
And it’s not only “white people” who are angry about the immigration issue in this country.
Thomas
Marisa is an idiot. I say we enforce the borders with an armed National Guard for once. Besides given how this government has become tyranical to the American people these days. We need our rights to bare arms more than ever. This admidnistration is what our founding fathers warned us about. Obama has been in office a little over a month and has already violated the 1st, 2nd and 10th admendments of our constitution. There is also word that a dem senator in california wants to do away with the 22nd admendment. Thats presidental term limits. Never have I seen so much contempt for our constitution by a single political party.
Dave
Despite growing up with guns and never giving gun ownership a second thought, I am amazed at what is considered “necessary” to uphold our constitutional rights…assault weapons in particular. Frankly, I hate both the thought of gun sales going over the border to fuel narcoviolence in any way, as well as the thought of one of my neighbors “collecting” these things.
I think it’s clear that gun ownership is part of our national fabric, but we desperately need to take a deep look at the issue and leave all the emotion aside.
laura
Panchito, please do not call my friends without visas “illegals.” They are hardworking, decent, law-abiding human beings. Tey are here as victims of their and their childrens’ need to eat.
The United States is the largest consumer of drugs in the world. Drug use in the US is equal among ethnicities: white, black, Latina/o, Asian.Can we get people who use dangerous drugs like cocaine, meth and opiates into treatment programs and legalize harmless drugs? Can we shrink the market for illegal drugs?
The so-called “war on drugs” is just as much a failure as the so-caled “war on terror.”
By the way: under the present drug laws, anyone who has ever possessed a piece of marihuana is an “illegal” if you call my friends without visas “illegal.” In fact, possession of marihuana – or any other prohibited drug – is a crime, while crossing the border without a visa is a civil misdemeanor. So any of you who have possessed pot or meth are “criminal illegals” if you call my undocumented friends “illegals.”
So how many of the racists who post here are “illegals”?
Texano78704
¡Ãndale Panchito! You made Horace look muy estupido.
Horace
Horace said: “Oh, one more thing, if Mexico really cared about stopping firearms from entering the country, it might actually institute an inspection program for vehicles crossing its borders. How could they be so stupid as not to do this? Is it a Hispanic cultural thing?”
Panchito said: “Horace calls Hispanics “stupid” because Mexico cannot control the flow of drugs into Mexico. Using his same line of reasoning, it would mean that “White folk” in the U.S. are also stupid since they cannot control the flow of illegals or drugs into the U.S.”
Texano said: “¡Ãndale Panchito! You made Horace look muy estupido.”
Horace says: Panchito’s reading comprehension is poor and so is Texano’s. Note that I was talking about firearms, not illegal aliens. I ask the readers, who’s muy estupido? Or in Marisa’s terms: You idiot!
Sandra
Oh cut the BS, Laura. Illegal alien is the government term for those in our country without papers. Bitch at them and not Americans who merely use the correct government term. Illegal = anything against the law. Alien = foreigner.
Quit trying to sugarcoat your friends’ status in this country. They are what they are.
laura
In order to improve the security of the country, why don’t we just put the people who are caught with a piece of marihuana in detention centers? Certainly they are not less dangerous than the people presently being jailed there for immigration infractions.
That would free up a lot of space on Marisa’s site presently used by the racist “criminal illegals.”
Since they so fervently wish to uphold all our laws, maybe Marisa should implement a policy where someone who wishes to post here and use the word “illegals” with respect to my friends without visas, must sign a declaration they have never possessed a piece of marihuana. Or had a beer before the age of 21.
This way we could save a lot of time by eliminating 90% of the hypocrites who call hardworking decent people “illegals” but for themselves don’t mind being “illegal” – for the sake of a little recreation.
Sandra
FYI Laura, I uphold the laws of our country and I have never done drugs either but if I did I would expect to be prosecuted for it. You see I don’t think I am special like you seem to think your “illegal” ethnic kind are. If you don’t like the term illegal aliens then complain to our government about it and stop demoralizing your fellow American citizens for using the correct terminology.
MaryElizabeth
It is time to get a grip on this problem and come up with a realistic solution. As long as we keep our current immigration system the way it is (broken) we will never be able to recognize who the bad guys are when they come through the border. 1)We need to secure our borders. As long as they remain the way they are we will continue to have, a drug problem, terriosts entering, human trafficking. 2)Comprehensive immigration reform. As much as people keep argueing this silly argument we delay the need to get all the workers out of the shadows and document them and as Mccain put it. Tamper proof ID cards. Now open up the legal immigration system. Economics have and alway will govern the amount of immigrants that enter our country. Eg:We have a bad economy(they arent going to want to come in right now if there arent any jobs). Now the only people comming through the border will be the bad guys. They will no longer be mixed in with the workers. 3)We must inforce labor laws. When the worker is undocumented they are not protected by US labor laws thus dropping the wage down and cutting the American out of their job and lifestyle. I can not understand why people argue you need one of these issue with out the other. It is imperative that you inforce all 3 of the BCI plan.
Texano78704
Come on, Horace. You knew what Panchito meant. Your own analogy points the finger back at you, just as the lawlessness in México points back to this country’s own drug usage.
Bob
“…come up with a realistic solution.”
Always the prelude to amnesty and citizenship for people who are undeserving of the same.
“..get all the workers out of the shadows…”
We’re doing that now, by e-verify, raids and deportations. Voluntary repatriation is working, a good byproduct of the tanking of our economy.
“I can not understand why people argue you need one of these issue with out the other. It is imperative that you inforce all 3 of the BCI plan.”
I’m not sure why securing our borders should be dependent upon caving in to demands of foreign nationals and their supporters or enforcing our labor laws.
Let’s deconstruct the writer’s assertion that we shouldn’t secure our borders until we grant amnesty and enforce our labor laws. These are not dependent activities. One could easily conceive of granting amnesty without securing our borders, although it could encourage further illegal immigration. One could secure our borders without granting amnesty (after all, what justification could there be in giving up security even if you don’t grant amnesty). One could enforce our labor laws without doing either of the other two (let employers abuse employees just because we don’t grant amnesty?). (Advocates wouldn’t permit this to be completely affective, as the hate E-verify. Oh, you don’t think this is a labor law?) It’s a logical fallacy to say that these are mutually dependent actions. Claiming that these three actions are connected is a falsehood.
Can we all agree on this: Don’t hold our people hostage to so-called CIR. Let’s set our priorities straight; protect the citizens of our country first by securing our border now!
Michaela
Panchito said:Using his same line of reasoning, it would mean that “White folk” in the U.S. are also stupid since they cannot control the flow of illegals or drugs into the U.S.”
Hey moron, “white folk” can’t control the flow of illegals or drugs because all your traitorous non-stop whiny Hispanic advocacy groups won’t shut up and let Americans do their job. They get the POS President Calderon to intimidate and jail our BP agents. That is going to stop real soon.
MaryElizabeth
BCI would not encourage more undocumented workers to come over the border. With immigration reform we would open up the legal immigration system. We will be able to fight drug trafficking on the borders if we allow people to come into our system the right way. How have the raids stopped the problems on the border? The problem on the border at the moment is horrible because the real bad guys are mixed in with the workers. The immigration prisons in our country are owned by private industry. It costs taxpayers $180 dollars a night to detain a worker. Thats $2,520 for 2 weeks of detaining an immigrant. I understand why some people want the system to stay the way it is because its private industry business, but the current immigration system is killing the American with jobs and lifestyle and it is costing us in taxpayers dollars. Many people are tired of hearing the same old silly arguement and rhetoric that keeps us exactly were we have been for the past 8 years. The problem still exists. The borders arent secure. How can we continue to do the same thing over and over again? We are still getting the same results. Labor laws are there for a reason. They protect all workers. If all workers are out of the shadows, then labor laws can fairly be excercised. This protects the American so that the wage goes up. Employers will no longer have accessability to workers that are not protected by labor laws.
MaryElizabeth
And Panchito…Dont forget to tell Horace the 90% of the guns that the drug cartel army own have come from here…Yep! thats right! from the USA. Can believe it! It was on 60 minutes (the Anderson Cooper show). The drugs go into Mexico. The workers are mixed in with the traffickers on the Border and into the USA it all goes…and then when it gets all out of control…wham, slam and into the private industry jails go some workers and criminals and Ooops there goes our tax dollars.
MaryElizabeth
Laura, I agree with you. I dont like when anyone uses the work illegal. I prefer to say worker or undocumented and hopefully someday we all will get pass this. I wish people would see all people as the same. We all bleed the same when they prick our skin. We all fear, we all cry, will all feel pain, we all experience joy.
Horace
Laura said: “Tey are here as victims of their and their childrens’ need to eat.”
No, they are the victims of their own failure as a people, and they’d rather blame the U.S. for all of their woes and quit their own countries to invade ours. They typically have more children than they can support in their own countries and they lack the will and courage to vote for governments who would promote their interests. For this they will never be respected by citizens of the U.S.
“Come on, Horace. You knew what Panchito meant. Your own analogy points the finger back at you, just as the lawlessness in México points back to this country’s own drug usage.”
No one forced Mexicans to form cartels and murder one another in a competition to provide illicit drugs to our citizens. They have free will and this is a path that they chose. Again, this is blame game is characteristic of self-pitying Latinos who won’t take responsibility for their own actions. It’s always someone else responsibility to them. This is manifested by Latino American advocates who always assert that the rest of us owe them a special place in government and in society. Their sad position in our society is our fault and we must give reparations for our sins.
It is evident by the expansion of the poor Latino underclass due to a lack of birth control that the rest of us will have to pay for that too, in the form of welfare. And since they will eventually become the majority, they will be in a position to raise taxes on the rest of us in a transfer of wealth. As an economist once said, the first thing the poor do when they become the majority is to vote a transfer of wealth in the form of tax increases on the rest. Eventually, we’ll have son of Hugo Chavez as president, and Latinos will blame that on us too.
Lew Waters
You want Americans to do more? Seems Mexicans don’t really agree with that.
Liquidmicro
Dont forget to tell Horace the 90% of the guns that the drug cartel army own have come from here…Yep! thats right! from the USA. Can believe it!
I am not sure of the point you intended to make. Was your point really intended to be about the “drug war” or was it to point out that both Mexico and the U.S. have limited control over their borders? Was it that a portion of the organized crime problem in the U.S. can be attributed to that fact that Mexico cannot control its borders?
Was it to point out that since Mexico has some of the strictest gun control laws in the world that criminals will find a way to obtain guns thereby nullifying the arguments of gun control advocates?
Now if you are talking about automatic weapons, only the Mexican Police and Military have those, they are not able to be bought and sold here unless you have a very hard to get license for it (ATF License(also known as NFA tax stamps)), and then it can only be sold through the Government. So if the drug cartels are getting automatic weapons, like AK-47’s (Chinese and Russian made brought up through the southern Mexican border) AR-15’s purchased from corrupt Mexican Military or from corrupt Mexican Police, or stolen from the same.
The report you are wanting to cite, Mary, has already been put to rest, you need to do better research.
Liquidmicro
Here’s one for you aswell, which is probably from the article you are obtaining your info from.
Mr. Iknadosian is accused of being one of those dealers. So brazen was his operation that the smugglers paid him in advance for the guns and the straw buyers merely filled out the required paperwork and carried the weapons off, according to A.T.F. investigative reports. The agency said Mr. Iknadosian also sold several guns to undercover agents who had explicitly informed him that they intended to resell them in Mexico.
Mr. Iknadosian, 47, will face trial on March 3 on charges including fraud, conspiracy and assisting a criminal syndicate. His lawyer, Thomas M. Baker, declined to comment on the charges, but said Mr. Iknadosian maintained his innocence. No one answered the telephone at Mr. Iknadosian’s home in Glendale, Ariz.
A native of Egypt who spent much of his life in California, Mr. Iknadosian moved his gun-selling operation to Arizona in 2004, because the gun laws were more lenient, prosecutors said.
Make note of that last paragraph. A native of Egypt, meaning he immigrated here. Why is it that almost anyone who has been arrested, or shown to be exploiting Deportable Aliens, is a recent Immigrant themselves, I wonder why that is? Kinda makes a good case to either put a hold on all immigration or to thoroughly limit what an immigrant can become licensed to do in the USA.
Liquidmicro
I give you the actual info.
Mexican Drug Cartels Armed to the Hilt, Threatening National Security
In November, along the border with Texas, Mexican authorities arrested drug cartel leader Jaime “el Hummer” Gonzalez Duran — one of the founders of “Los Zetas,” a paramilitary organization of former Mexican soldiers who decided there was more money to be made in selling drugs than in serving in the Mexican military.
…
They were armed to the teeth. Their arsenal ranged from semi-automatic rifles to rocket-propelled grenades. When the smoke finally cleared and the government had prevailed, Mexican federal agents captured 540 assault rifles, more than 500,000 rounds of ammunition, 150 grenades, 14 cartridges of dynamite, 98 fragmentation grenades, 67 bulletproof vests, seven Barrett .50-caliber sniper rifles and a Light Anti Tank (LAW) rocket.
…
In Northern Mexico, high-powered American weapons have enabled drug cartels to control whole territories. There is the Colt AR-15, the civilian version of the military M-16. And there is the “cuernos de chivo” — Spanish for goat horns . . . the 30-shot curved banana clip of the AK-47.
The AK-47, long the symbol of guerrilla revolution, is not the most accurate or technical assault rifle, but it gets the job done. It is the workhorse of drug cartels, and ammunition can come from a variety of world sources, including the United States.
And then there are the sniper rifles.
“The .50-caliber was interesting because we haven’t seen that type of arm used in Mexico yet,” said Scott Stewart, a former U.S. Army intelligence officer and an analyst for Stratfor, a geopolitical security firm. The .50-caliber long-range sniper rifle is incredibly accurate and dangerous; a trained operator could kill a human being with a round from well over a mile away.
For criminal cartels like Los Zetas, greater firepower means greater influence in not only the drug trade; it has enabled them to infiltrate and threaten the entire power structure of Mexico. In December, the Mexican attorney general announced the arrest of Maj. Arturo Gonzalez Rodriguez for allegedly assisting Mexican drug trafficking organizations — allegedly for $100,000 a month.
The connection between the drug cartels and the Mexican army has given cartel leaders access to military grade weapons like the high powered Five-Seven semi-automatic pistols.
A favorite with the cartels, the Five-Seven has the advantage of being light: under 2 pounds, with a 20-round clip filled with bullets the cartels call “matapolicias’ — “cop killers.”
“The 5.7 x 28, armor piercing (AP) rounds are not available for sale to the general public and are probably coming from the Mexican military,” said Stewart who has analyzed U.S.-Mexican border security issues for half a decade.
The drug-related murder rate in Mexico doubled in 2008 from just one year before, and as the violence escalates, the power of the drug cartels has destabilized Mexican authority to the point of threatening national security.
Last week Gen. Ãngeles Dahuajare announced that more than 17,000 soldiers had deserted in 2008.
“The Mexican Army is becoming a revolving door for the enforcement arm of the drug cartels; they simply pay better,” Stewart said.
There’s just something about those last 2 paragraphs that, even though the possibility that 90% of weapons seized are indeed from the USA (which is a partial truth argument since most of the weapons used are stolen or purchased from the Mexican Military), you attempt to place all the blame on the USA, when in fact it is Mexico’s own soldiers who are corrupt. Are we not to sell to the Mexican Government in order for them to protect themselves? How do you propose to stop the Mexican Military corruption and there arming of the Drug Cartels simply because they pay better?
Michaela
MaryElizabeth :
And Panchito…Dont forget to tell Horace the 90% of the guns that the drug cartel army own have come from here…Yep! thats right! from the USA.”
MaryE, they also come from Guatemala and Salvador. You can’t blame everything on the U.S. I know you want to, but you can’t.
Michaela
You bleeding heart libs and your “undocumented” word. They are illegal aliens, PERIOD! And there is NOTHING wrong with our immigration system and we do NOT need CIR.
Marisa Treviño
Michaela, You’re wrong. Plain and simple. I believe you, and others, who say there is no need for CIR is because you don’t know anyone who has been personally affected by current immigration policy. I have a feeling that you equate our immigration system solely with Hispanic immigrants. If so, then you have a huge bias that I would label racist.
Give me reasons why there is no need for CIR but don’t just call names and say there’s no need for CIR. Otherwise, it sounds like you’re just parroting anti-immigrant rhetoric.
Horace
“I have a feeling that you equate our immigration system solely with Hispanic immigrants. If so, then you have a huge bias that I would label racist.”
If bias is a measure of racism, you sure register ten on a scale from one to ten. Your bias is in favor of giving illegal alien Hispanic immigrants everything they ask for just because they are Hispanics. That’s truly racist if you ask me. Your opponents at least have the law on your side. You have nothing by a bunch of blowhard advocates denouncing our laws.
MaryElizabeth
Its simple, Again, I am pointing out to secure the borders is a joint effort. I dont want the children of America to be subjected to an overflow of drugs into their world. If we all as a joint effort secured the borders, it would put the bad guys out of business. Again, haveing an illegal workforce that floods through the borders makes it a difficult task to fight the problem on the border and if we dont open the legal immigration system up it will continue to flow again when our economy picks up. Economic factors do and always will govern the amount of immigrants that enter our country so it will never hurt us as long as the labor laws are inforced. I can sit here and argue the humane side to a path to citizenship but there are more serious problems here and that is the future of America. We can not continue to have a population of 12 million workers undocumented. We have to reform the system and the way we are doing it does not work.
Liquidmicro
Don’t forget Russia has built a plant in Venezuela, and supplies Chavez with over 100,000 AK-103’s.
Russia Rejects US Pressure Not to Sell Jets to Venezuela and Welcomes Chávez
Wednesday, July 26, 2006
THE REAL RIFLE MAN
Mikhail Kalashnikov, developer of the legendary Russian AK-47 assault rifle, holds an AK-103 while he poses for a picture after a press conference in Moscow, in April 2006. Venezuela has received 30,000 of a 100,000-unit contract for these rifles as a part of a major retrofit for its defense. In addition, a Kalashnikov rifle manufacturing plant will soon open in Venezuela and will likely become a hub to modernize small arms supplies throughout Latin America.
…
announced Venezuela’s intention to open a similar rifle factory in Maracay, Venezuela. It is expected to begin producing the first rifles in around two years’ time. Pre-empting criticism of the decision he said, “I consider it the state’s responsibility to equip and train the armed forces of the nation. And that is all I’m doing, nothing more.â€
Venezuela already has a contract for the supply of 100,000 rifles from Russia, of which 30,000 have been delivered thus far [the rifles are AK-103s, a modern version of the AK-47 and AK-101].
MaryElizabeth
Hi Marissa, Im glad you pointed out to the people here that this is not just a Hispanic issue. They dont understand how main stream this problem has become. I know many people that are US born citizens and they are in relationships with immigrants. They can not enjoy a normal life with their partners. They can not go on vacations with them and plan ahead. Their relationships are always on the edge and tormented by what they can not do or have like others. They cant buy homes jointly with them or have joint bank accounts or open business or make investments etc. etc. etc. There lifetime plans are on hold. I have many friends like this. I know both girls and guys that have children and they have the same situation. They cant have normal functional familys. I often ask myself this question….Was it their fault the Border was not secure?? Why are the citizens of this country being punished?? Was it their fault when they fell in love and they experienced their first kiss?? Is it against the law to love?? Does a person choose who they love?? and if anything should be documented or reformed…isnt it time for these people to come out of the shadows and document that love. Let them make it official. When I think of reform I think of it as a love story of many sent from god.
Horace
“I know many people that are US born citizens and they are in relationships with immigrants. They can not enjoy a normal life with their partners. They can not go on vacations with them and plan ahead. Their relationships are always on the edge and tormented by what they can not do or have like others. They cant buy homes jointly with them or have joint bank accounts or open business or make investments etc. etc. etc. There lifetime plans are on hold.”
Why are their poor life choices my responsibility, or our nation’s? Make bad choices and live with bad outcomes. I’m sorry, it’s not up to our legal system to bend to the law breaker or his family, but up the citizen to comply with the law.
“I have many friends like this. I know both girls and guys that have children and they have the same situation. They cant have normal functional familys. I often ask myself this question….Was it their fault the Border was not secure??”
So, in spite of the fact that the parent’s were well aware that crossing the border contrary to our laws, it’s our fault that they cross illegally. And the fact that we didn’t have a 200 ft fence to keep illegal immigrants out makes it our fault that they transgressed our immigration laws? What next? If I don’t turn my house into a fort with defensive positions it’s my fault if someone breaks in? Your have an absurd and consequently indefensible argument, Mary Elizabeth.
“Why are the citizens of this country being punished?? Was it their fault when they fell in love and they experienced their first kiss?? Is it against the law to love?? Does a person choose who they love?? and if anything should be documented or reformed…isnt it time for these people to come out of the shadows and document that love. Let them make it official. When I think of reform I think of it as a love story of many sent from god.”
What next? Maybe you’ll argue that we should pardon all escaped convicts who marry and make a new life for themselves. Again, people make bad choices and have to live with them. It’s no one else fault but the involved parties.
MaryElizabeth
Horace, You seemed to be confused here. Many people that are involved in the relationships with the undocumented workers didnt cross the border. These people happen to be Americans and why should they be suffering because our system couldnt protect the Border. Is it their fault they became involved with an undocumented worker?? Gee, Horace…I see how you feel. Why should you care?? After all its not your situation, Right!! and when you talk about convicts you are compareing apples to oranges here. Geee, Horace…when you ask a girl out, do you ask to see her greencard or documentation before your slow dance with her or give her a kiss?? Oh and I guess an American falls in love with an undocumented worker because they want to create an anchor baby!! that sounds like a real convenient situation to put yourself in a position where you can have your family split up and have to be subjected to someone like you calling your baby a weird name on the internet. You speak as if your the owner of this country and your attitude is as long as it does not effect you then who cares about your neighbors!! I guess if your neighbor conceives a baby with an undocumented worker that makes him a convict.
Sandra
ME, your arguments are so ridiculous and lacking in personal responsibility on the part of the illegals and citizens alike, that it is laughable to say the least. Where would we be in this country if every kind of lawbreaker made excuses with no personal accountability for their actions, so we let them off the hook? How old are you anyway? 10, 12?
MaryElizabeth
How old are you Sandra? Are you 107 years old. lol/I now understand why you can not identify with your deep rooted obsession to pit an argument against individuals that have darker skin then yours because you brain is stuck in some time warp way back in early 1900s. Anyone who thinks a US citizen should suffer because they feel in love with someone who came here to search for a better life and had a family together has serious issues. Sandra…take a good look at yourself in the mirror!! you have serious issues Sandra.
Sandra
ME, knock of your skin color BS! There is nothing in my posts that indicates that I oppose certain skin colors and nothing could be further from the truth. If you can’t back up your hateful accusations then STHU!
You are the one with serious issues and should look in the mirror. I am merely for legal immigration and enforcing our laws and for people take responsibility for their own actions. You disgust me!!
MaryElizabeth
Sandra Remember since I am 12 I will have to say again; sticks and stones will break my bones but name will never….No one can be as mean spirited as you Sandra and obsessed with hurting people who are in a vulnerable position in life unless they have some deep seeded issue like you do. Keep projecting all your hate Sandra and keep looking in the mirror and watch yourself age faster than the people who smile, love, and have compassion for others. Sandra I actually feel sorry for you because one day you are going to wake up and realise you wasted your life being cruel to others.
Sandra
Mary E., as a typical pro-illegal you have completely one-dimensional thinking. Liquid gave you a few examples under another topic of the long-term consequences of unfettered illegal immigration and how it has already adversely affected Americans, and in particular our own poor Americans. The wealthy and elites are generally not directly affected as are the poor and working class Americans.
You cannot see past your own self-righteous indignation over this issue. You refuse to acknowledge how unfettered illegal immigration has had a devastating effect on school districts, in partcular working class and poor areas. No concern about how unfettered illegal immigration has increased gang activity and lessened the chances for success for the poor, at-risk children of American citizens, particularly black and Latino. Your concern is ONLY for illegal foreign nationals with no mind to what illegal immigration has wrought on the most vulnerable members of OUR society. You get more “bang” out of feeling “compassionate” for the foreign nationals; there isn’t as much psychological return on reserving your compassion and caring for your fellow American citizens. It is YOU Mary that is actually “being cruel” to your own fellow American citizens and this country, but you don’t care. You feel morally superior by advocating for illegal foreign nationals.
People like you would turn this country into a third world mess in order to be able to pat yourselves on the back and feel good about how “enlightened and progressive” your thinking is. You don’t care that the price for your self-indulgence is the decline of opportunity for the poor and vulnerable CITIZENS and LEGAL residents of this country. You feel much better about yourself advocating for illegal foreign natonals–that’s much more flashy and exotic than caring about plain old American citizens and how illegal immigration has affected their living standards, jobs, wages, schools, environment, etc. Kind of like these actresses who make a big public scene out of adopting kids from third world countries when there are so many plain old American children who need rescuing. So much more psychological return on the “exotic.”
MaryElizabeth
People like John Mccain, Teddy Kennedy are for comprehensive immigration reform for a reason. These are people that fight for the working class and the poor of our country. There are 11.7 million undocumented in our country and to keep them illegal would give us a slave work force unprotected by labor laws for many more years. This will make the poor even poorer. To recover our country we must…First 1)Secure the Borders…there is a war on terror and drugs and need to control this to change the poor neighborhoods in our country.(Drugs are destroying our children and the reason for most crime) 2 bring all undocumented out of the shadows…document them..and send them on a path to citizenship..Its too late guys!! there are 11.7 million here and they arent going home. So just write it off as a lesson to be learned that..most Americans would rather you print money for infrastruture and green jobs rather than spending tax dollars on deporting migrant workers…people would rather do the new jobs created…you must secure the borders and have a reasonable legal immigration system. 3)Inforce labor laws…this is the magnet that brought the flow through the border…now the wage will go up so that when new jobs are created. Perhaps jobs makeing solar panels…adding additional mass transit, rail, repairing bridges. There is lots of work to be done in this country. Sandra when you speak of all the poor children in this country you forgot to mention the other group that they are growing up with and that is their friends, boyfriends and neighbors and we call 11.7 million of them the undocumented. Sandra…This argument could have made sense years ago…but honestly it really is too late.
Sandra
It is never too late to do the right thing and that is for the government to clean up this mess it created rather than making us citizens pay for their mistakes. They can start by securing our border now, continuing with internal emforcement of our immigration laws and making e-verify mandatory in the workplace.
Polticians like Kennedy, McCain were pandering for the Hispanic vote with their amnesty bills and prior to that they were pandering to corportations for cheap labor. Neither of these things are acceptable to the majority of U.S. citizens. You are living in a dream world if you think otherwise. We already have reasonable immigration policies, they just weren’t enforced at the border and in the workplace. That is what the American people want, not rewarding amnesty to illegal aliens and the additional increase in our population numbers by their presence here. We have legal immigration quotas for good reasons and unless employers can prove we need additional workers without bloating the economy and taking jobs from Americans while keeping population growth in mind we need to go back to enforcing our existing laws and that means enforcing them at the border and internally. Internal enforcement will cause many of them to leave that are here already and that is the desired outcome for most Americans.
MaryElizabeth
Our legal immigration quotas were not reasonable in the last 8 years and so the border was the only way for many to come through. I am for secureing the borders and I am for the inforcement of labor laws but I also am for forgiveing the ones who broke the law. I do not want my tax dollars spent on detaining them in private industry prisons that are costly for 2 reasons. We need our tax dollars be used to create new government regulated jobs rather than private industry with those contracts that milk the system. With 11.7 million here it is just to expensive to worry about “Rule of Law”. The wealthy and well connected are the real criminals we face today and they invited the undocumented here with the idea of cheap labor and a system to detain us at the expense of our tax dollars. Americans have caught on to the game and they want sensible common sense immigration reform as well as many reforms on other issues in our country.
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