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Latina Lista: News from the Latinx perspective > Palabra Final > Politics > Obama’s Speech on Race Underscores Generational Division of Voters

Obama’s Speech on Race Underscores Generational Division of Voters

LatinaLista — Today was a historical day in Barack Obama’s run for the Democratic presidential nomination and for the country as a whole.

For the first time, a presidential candidate delivered a speech on the racial divide of this country from a PERSONAL perspective. Not as someone who watches it from the sidelines but who has lived it.
Yet, what became painfully obvious as Obama delivered his speech and cited historic examples of racial division and oppression in this country is that there is a legacy of racial discrimination in this country that is being kept alive by a generation for whom color defines and confines a person.
Which is ironic considering that the bulk of Obama’s supporters are what are known as the Millenial generation for whom diversity is not just a word but a way of life, and for whom many color is not as simple as black or white, but white and “some other race.”


According to Census 2000, the majority of people in this country who share Obama’s mixed race heritage are under 30 years of age. In fact, “some of the largest differences in age between the ‘Two or More Races’ population and the U.S. population occurred at the youngest ages (under 15).”
It makes sense. Unlike in Obama’s parents’ time, societal disdain for mixed race marriages, thus births, has eased. As a result, today’s young people, whether or not they are of mixed race, are more accepting of diversity — and this acceptance has created a new kind of voter who identifies strongly with Obama and has little patience for the older generation’s view on race.
It was seen with Geraldine Ferraro’s comments and Bill Clinton’s.
The point was explicitly brought home in Dallas, Texas where an 84-year-old matriarch of the Latino community commented how city Latinos would have a hard time voting for Obama because he was black. Almost instantly, young millenials blasted her remarks. As one Dallasite whose work targets young millenials:

Synbad Ontiveros, 37, who works at hip-hop station KBFB-FM (97.9), said older Latino leaders are out of touch with the community. He is still undecided about whom to support for president. But Mrs. Callejo’s remarks “just blew me away,” he said.


That Obama had to deliver a speech on racial healing wasn’t for the benefit of today’s young voters.
In the new book “Millennial Makeover,” authors Morley Winograd and Michael D. Hais, characterize the millenial generation as being the largest in American history, outnumbering Baby Boomers. And for the first time in U.S. history, 40% of this generation is comprised of African-American, Latino, Asian and racially mixed people.

A candidate like Barack Obama, whose bi-racial family and generational roots extend from slave owners in America to Kenyan goat herders and social workers in Indonesia, is not an oddity in their minds but has the model background for an American leader.
Eighty percent of Millennials have done some sort of community service in high school. . Eighty-five percent believe that directly contributing something to the community is an important way to improve it. When Senator Obama traces his experience to his days as a community organizer in Chicago, older generations tend to dismiss it as posturing and beside the point in gaining the experience required to government work.
Millennials, by contrast, consider community service just the kind of experience they would like to to put on their resume when they apply for a job. Discounting its importance sounds to them like a dismissal of their own accomplishments.
Indeed an examination of the biographies of many of the winning Democratic challengers in the 2006 Congressional elections shows this same penchant on the part of new voters to value a career of service over one spent learning the inner workings of the legislative process.
It’s also a reason why Senator McCain’s service to his country in Vietnam and his stay in the Hanoi Hilton attracts rather than repels this new generation of voters, in spite of the attempts of a feminist icon of the 1960s to minimize the importance of that service.
Millennials have been taught since their parents first sat them down to watch Barney that the best way to approach problems is to find a solution that works for everyone in the group—since everyone is just as good and important as everyone else.
The confrontational style of Baby Boomer candidates like Hillary Clinton or Mitt Romney strikes them as rude, enough to earn them a time out until they learn how to play nice. By contrast, the unifying message of Barack Obama who suggests, somewhat naively to the ears of older voters, that his solution to the problems of America will be to get everyone around the table to work things out for the good of the country is exactly in tune with the way Millennials have been taught to solve problems.

(The Millennial Makeover blog.)
If ever there was hope for the future of this country, it can be found with this next generation. Yet, how fair is it to them to keep dragging them back to an antiquated view of the world that isn’t their reality?
Sometimes, the older generation, with their stubborn insistence of holding on to bygone prejudices, act more like children than the millenials. In this case, some need to adopt a phrase that their own parents parroted to them: “Children should be seen and not heard.”

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Comment(69)

  • Avatar
    Frank
    March 18, 2008 at 8:53 pm

    I good analogy could be made here about the reconquista movement and their hatred of white people over the past. When are they going to let go of the past?

  • Avatar
    Frank
    March 18, 2008 at 8:57 pm

    One other point about this analogy is that it is noted that it is mostly the older Blacks who are holding a grudge over the past but with the reconquista movement, it is mostly about younger Hispanics aka Mecha, etc. How do you explain that? They weren’t even alive back then when the Euopeans and the natives had their conflicts.

  • Avatar
    laura
    March 18, 2008 at 9:28 pm

    Forgive me for being a little skeptical.
    Yes, generations matter. We become who we are through experiencing our times.
    But I don’t think racism will simply be outgrown. I know too many young racists.
    I also don’t think many of our problems will be solved by calls for unity. People like the owners of Halliburton, Blackwater, Bearns Stern are not open to coming around the table to work things out for the good of the country. They want power and money, in that order.
    Yet I agree the 40% of young people who are African-American, Latino, Asian and racially mixed people are a big hope for our future. Because they know what it is like not to feel entitled.
    Entitled to automatically belong to the in-group. Entitled to have everything, to think you are better than everyone else. Maybe they can feel more compassion and understanding because of that.

  • Avatar
    Jax
    March 18, 2008 at 10:17 pm

    I watched him today and I thought he was magnificent. I have been supporter his since he began the campaign.
    My question is this: Why do Hispanics dislike him? Why support Clinton? Can’t you tell a phoney when you encounter one?

  • Avatar
    mayanmx
    March 19, 2008 at 3:08 am

    Frank,
    I know we have had this conversation before so here it goes again. When you bring up terms like reconquista and MECHA, what I hear you say are trigger words. There is no reconquista movement. That notion came from some Harvard professor who wrote a very insulting, divisive article that the university sadly allowed printed with their name. In fact, that article came out just roughly around the time that this whole immigration debate began.
    Unfortunately, you, and many others, hear that word and panic.
    Equating respect and remembrance for a region of the country that has deep, deep roots connected to Mexico and Latin America is like telling New York to stop holding a traffic stopping St. Patty’s Day parade every year. This country is deeply influenced by many cultures, look at Texas, who would have imagined the incredible contribution of the German population historically rooted there. Because that population holds on to its traditions, do you demand their loyalty too? What about the Bachelor from London saying on national t.v. he was coming to “steel American women,’ of course, said in jest, but could you imagine having a Bachelor from Peru saying the same thing? Shall I complain as you do?
    When you mention MeCHA, you are referring to Chicano history – which I assume you do to trigger emotions too. I don’t know how extensive your knowledge of that history is so please inform me so I have a better idea where you are coming from when you cite the group.
    As complex as our mutual histories are: “yours”, “mine”, “theirs” – hatred, prejudice and discrimination are equal to all cultures. Truly, this getting along thing is not easy.
    I just never hear in your postings any attempt to get to that middle ground. When you reference a past history as if it were dead and buried, you show your ignorance. Take some time to really talk to people of Native, Indigenous ancestry. We are alive today, and that, in itself, is no easy feat. Truly, learn a little of the country’s history.
    To want that history heard, seen, respected and yes, apologized for today is not something I had to be alive at that time to understand. I didn’t need to be alive in 1930’s, let’s say, when some states in this country had only just stopped paying money for the scalps of native people, but my grandparents were and the trauma was passed down. Never, never in any way did they ever, ever act in a way that would make me hate this country or feel anything other than an American. Do I believe there is room in America to acknowledge what happened and become respectful today – like not using Native American symbols as sports mascots – yes, I believe in this great country and our amazing capacity for evolving.
    Reconquista is a word you throw around, in so doing, you touch on very painful memories, of people like you who lived in the 1930’s, 1880’s, 1750’s, who saw us as less, and our desire to be included as impossible dreaming. When you do this, I don’t have to go far back in time to remember the pain.
    Yet, I do care about this great country, I do believe the way forward is to view our past, not apologetically, but as the wise society we are, that has faced the greatest of humanity’s challenges – to overcome hate – and failed, but still strove to be the best there could be and went at it again.
    So, please, unless your whole purpose in life is to come on to this blog daily to spout division, stay home.

  • Avatar
    Frank
    March 19, 2008 at 7:35 am

    That is the reason why we will never outgrow racism in this country. The older generations are passing down racist attitudes to their young. That goes for all ethnicities too.
    With Blacks they are passing down their resentments over the Civil Rights Era. With Hispanics they are passing a notion that certain lands in this country were stolen from them because of their indigenous side and that being anti-illegal is racist. Some Whites are doing this to a certain extent too but I think at least they are trying to get past racism. But minorities won’t ever let them forget the past and are keeping racism alive.

  • Avatar
    miguel
    March 19, 2008 at 10:21 am

    Frank. The end is near for us. I hope the hate we knew and shelter to this day will soon die with us. Just try to stop it as I am attempting to do. Even this blogs Horace with his Korean family might reflect that times are changing, hopefully for the better. Think of the children we leave behind. Give them a better start by stopping this nonsense about race.

  • Avatar
    EYES OF TEXAS
    March 19, 2008 at 10:25 am

    Seems no one wants to mention what sparked Obamas speech about racial issues, so I will. Obamas relationship with the racist Reverend Wright is what Obama is now trying to separate himself from. It will not work and due to the fact that this connection has been revealed to the public, Obamas chance at the WH is slim to none. No matter what Obama says, he can not deny the fact he has been listening to this reverend for twenty years which would indicate his approval of Reverend Wrights views on race, America and our politics.
    Anyone voting for this man to become our next President deserves all the racially driven change this man, Obama, has planned for our country.

  • Avatar
    adriana
    March 19, 2008 at 12:01 pm

    I guess I wasn’t at the MEChA meeting where we all decided to have this big “reconquista” that people keep writing about.
    I agree w/ mayanmx. There is no reconquista movement.
    Most MEChA students that I have met are busy studying, taking tests, and going to parties on their campuses. When would they have time for this?

  • Avatar
    Irma
    March 19, 2008 at 12:58 pm

    Obama’s speech on race was more of the blame – game. Black racism toward whites is skillfully justified by giving it a
    historical and economic context.
    Sorry, at some point one has to accept
    that government cannot solve everything.
    We have arrived at the limit of what government can do to end economic and social inequities. Everyone can vote, go to the same school etc.
    Obama’s speech FAILED to address the issue as to WHY 43 years after the 1965
    Civil Rights Act – most blacks are not better off. There is nothing to hold them back now except their belief that they are still disenfranchised. This is a social problem intrinsic within the African American community and is outside of the realm of government.
    I was very disappointed with that speech because it further substantiated
    a growing perception on my part that
    Obama accepts at some level the view that America is systematically and specifically disenfranchising only African Americans. Has Barak Obama been unaware of how racism has affected Hispanics, Asians,
    and Jews? He sees the world only through a black/white prism.
    I want a President who will see in me
    more than just a vote.

  • Avatar
    adriana
    March 19, 2008 at 2:08 pm

    Irma,
    Barack Obama has spoken about the racism that Jews, Hispanics, and Asians have felt. His sister is half Indonesian. What black/white prism are you talking about?
    Actually, I would argue in many respects blacks have made great gains. They have their own colleges, a thriving middle class, and have worked their way into the American political system.
    http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D0CE7DC1E3CF933A2575BC0A967958260
    While we Latinos have “Hispanic Serving Institutions,” can you name me one college where we run the show? I think that we Latinos can learn a lot from the blacks, Jews, and Asians.
    America has not only disenfranchised African-Americans. It has disenfranchised poor whites, Asians, Native Americans, and Latinos. Barack Obama mentioned other ethnicities in this speech.

  • Avatar
    Horace
    March 19, 2008 at 5:17 pm

    “While we Latinos have “Hispanic Serving Institutions,” can you name me one college where we run the show? I think that we Latinos can learn a lot from the blacks, Jews, and Asians.”
    Adriana, the only reason that there are racial African-American universities is that they were once not allowed to attend other universities in this country. I don’t think that any ethnic/racial group in this country, be they white, brown or black, should be thinking along the lines of “running the whole show”, when the natiaonal objective should be an integrated society. What do you think that you will gain by an ethnically? racially segregated/dominated university that you wouldn’t get from an integrated one? You people seem to think in terms of a Balkinized society, where culture is emphasized over unity. Maybe Asians and continental Indians, et al should have their own segregated colleges as well. This kind of separatist thinking scares the hell out of me. If this is the way all Latinos think, God help us.

  • Avatar
    Irma
    March 19, 2008 at 5:26 pm

    Adriana,
    I do not see Barak Obama as the great unifier. He talks the talk but doesnt walk the walk. In my view his discussions of
    of racial groups other than blacks or
    whites is always as an afterthought.
    This is the black/white prism that I am
    talking about.
    Sorry, but that Latino afterthought
    constitutes millions of people……..
    Maybe I have missed the references
    that Obama makes toward other groups.
    It is hard to miss the black or white
    references – its almost every other sentence.
    Dont be too concerned about our not having a college where we “run ”
    the show. Personally, I would rather
    that we have more representation in
    the academia, arts, music and architecture. Where is our Albert
    Einstein ? Where is our Mozart ?
    Where is our MIchelangelo? I sure hope
    the they are not stewing somewhere over how unfair America is to Mexicans.
    Irma

  • Avatar
    Alessandra
    March 19, 2008 at 5:27 pm

    Irma, excuse me for butting in here, but where do you get the information that African Americans are no better off now than they were over 40 years ago? That is simply not the case.
    Many African Americans have made good use of affirmative action, special race-based college grants and scholarships, special home and business loans.
    The African American middle class has greatly expanded with many more African Americans attending colleges, starting small businesses, and owning homes.
    Yes, there is still an underclass and we still have more work to do. Forty years seems like a long time, but it really is not when you think of how long African Americans were disenfranchised.
    In the final analysis, the government can only do so much. Effective programs which demand accountability can HELP; but only through an individual’s determination, hard work, and personal responsibility can the journey out of poverty and into the middle class become a reality. Those who look to the government as their savior are always going to be bitter and disappointed.

  • Avatar
    adriana
    March 19, 2008 at 9:06 pm

    Irma,
    You ask very good questions. Where is our Einstein, Michelangelo, etc? I don’t think that our intellectuals are too busy stewing about the state of affairs in America. It has been my experience that Latino academics are hard at work trying to publish their work and provide service to their communities. Sure, many of them are angry about their status in this country, but being angry doesn’t mean that we have to be paralyzed into inaction.
    We can’t even garner measurable support for Bill Richardson who was a great candidate for president. Most of our leaders fell in lock step behind Hillary Clinton early on without paying much attention to Richardson.
    Maybe you need to expose yourself to more Obama speeches beyond what is repeated in the mainstream media. I have heard him mention Latinos, Asians, and Native Americans. Obama has marched for immigrant’s rights and has appeared on El Piolin’s radio show. If he were seeing things in only black/white, he probably would not bother attending those events.
    And one more thing… you must not forget that there are black Latinos. We aren’t all brown or Spanish. The Spaniards were very involved in the slave trade, and you find Afro-Latinos throughout Latin American, including Mexico.
    In many ways, we have more in common with the blacks in South Central Los Angeles than we do with white folks in Chappaqua. If we realized this, I think that we could forge a powerful coalition to propel us beyond gains of the Civil Rights Act.

  • Avatar
    mayanmx
    March 20, 2008 at 1:36 am

    Recently a medical researcher in Mexico found what looks promising like a cure for cancer. A few days later, the U.S. and Mexico signed a cooperative agreement to attack cancer together. The color television was invented by a Mexican. The truth is that there so many people doing so much outside the boxes that we have assigned for ourselves or been assigned.
    I think we need to step outside those boxes now. It makes me sad to hear that you really think I might be stuck in some past that is no way related to today. I wish you had heard what I wrote before, my grandparents never, ever told me to hate anyone, in fact, they did not even believe in talking about their history. They did believe I could and should be all I could be regardless of who or where I came from – that was the American dream I was shared. Never once was I told to hate a white person, and even if I had (although I repeat, I was never told such a thing), I cannot hate one half of myself.
    I think Obama’s speech spoke to how many white people feel that they have had to carry a burden that is not theirs to hold, and that it’s unfair. I can see your side, especially when you try to understand me and don’t use trigger words that bring that history right on up in my face. Then, the past is no longer the past, capiche? When you do trigger, yes, then the pain of what my ancestors experienced, and what I have experienced growing up in a society that still really has not faced its past, reconciled its history, is right back, front and center, in the present.
    Somehow, to say that I want you to recognize and respect my history, sparks in you a defensive mode, so what are we to do? I am not a bad person. You, I assume, are not a bad person. But, just talking about race should not be considered an attack, just talking about immigration and not hating immigrants should not make me a racist against white people – to be white must I hate immigrants? – or to share with you that many in the Native American community continue to feel the effects of the past does not make me or my statements political renegade. I object to you politicizing my experience. You cannot politicize me simply because I share my experience – I did not chose this mixture of my history, anymore than you can choose your own.
    I think Obama has shown that the pastor was not a racist person. Its sad that a third of supporters would turn from him simply because his life is connected to someone that dare speak, utter, what it feels like, that painful history and the complex experience of people who have experienced racism in the past. Really, haven’t we done enough of the emperor’s clothes for one generation? Look at the statistics on who is behind bars and tell me something isn’t wrong. Look at the suicide rates of young native people and tell me some of the pain is still not here today. Prison statistics alone challenge our ethical stand and claim everyone has an equal chance.
    I like, no, love the concept of equality. I mean, that is what our great country stands, is built upon. So, I am saying, let’s hatch the rooster before counting the eggs. Let’s see schools where every child, white, brown, black, of every color, gets a chance for a superb education. Obama and many others who have worked hard to get where they are in life are proof that the efforts at reconciliation have brought very powerful change. Rather then sliding away in anger, let’s go all the way, let’s reach for that time when race truly won’t matter. But, what if to get there, we need to confront some uncomfortable feelings, perhaps ones no one has ever felt before, not even our ancestors. Isn’t that what we are meant to do, evolve to the next level, why go back?
    Do I blame you for your ancestors, no, but if you try to make me an enemy or say I am a bad person for wanting it clearly stated that what happened in the past was wrong, no, I will not apologize for seeking lessons from the past. It is for that reason that I always try to understand you and ask that you speak here in this forum with respect.
    I just wish you did not feel that “we” are out to get “you”, and I want to believe “you” are not out to get “me”. So where can we find middle ground?

  • Avatar
    Frank
    March 20, 2008 at 8:09 am

    Anyone in here who is claiming that there isn’t a reconquista movement going on is either lying or ignorant. Just this past week a Mexican consulate spoke to some Americans and said that this was Mexico once and it will be again. There was even a video of it posted in another thread. Mecha once was very outspoken about their intention of creating a nation of Aztlan within our borders. They have had to tone down their rhetoric because Americans were seeing them for the racist, anti-American organization that they are. Their agenda is still the same today. If one doesn’t think that by illegal immigration this isn’t helping the agenda along then they are smoking some funny stuff or in denial. If Hispanics stood up for the rule of law in this country rather than advocating this invasion by their illegal amigos, perhaps we could believe there is no real reconquista. There is much more evidence out there of reconquista too. Videos, articles, etc. Let’s not stick our heads in the sand on this. It is real and denying it is laughable to say the least.
    As far as racism goes. IMO it is minorities that are keeping it alive in this country, not white people. There seems to be nothing that white people can do to make amends for our past history whether it be over the Civil Rights Era or the native indian wars. The only way I see that happening is for us to lie down and accept an invasion of our country so that whites become the minority in the country that they have built and have been the majority in since it’s founding. If accepting our own genocide is the only way that minorities will stop calling whites racist. Sorry but I’m not going along for the ride.

  • Avatar
    adriana
    March 20, 2008 at 10:52 am

    Frank,
    I work with Latino-Americans who are involved in leadership positions at the local, state, and national levels. I have never heard any of them speak of “reconquista.” If anything, most of them go with the status quo, supporting what the establishment wants.
    MEChA is a college student organization. I don’t know if and when you went to college, but these days our college co-eds have to work to avoid taking out more loans in addition to studying so that they can graduate. When is MEChA going to have time to organize this “reconquista” you and your myth spreading friends keep talking about? Have you been to any MEChA meetings on the college campuses in your neighborhood? Maybe you see something that a lot of us are missing.

  • Avatar
    EYES OF TEXAS
    March 20, 2008 at 4:48 pm

    mayanmx, Your take on Rev. Wright is so far in left field it’s almost out of bounds. Did you relly hear what that anti-American racist piece of garbage was saying? His belief: AIDS was formulated by our government and introduced into the minority communities. His belief: Our government supplies drugs to minority communities so they can arrest them later. His belief: White America is the sole cause of the depressed condition of minorities.
    This man is Obamas mentor and political advisor and has been in Obamas ear for the past 20 years. You can’t believe that Obama has not heard such crap for the past 20 years and possibly taken some of it to heart. Obama compares the reverend to an uncle that says a lot of things that he (Obama) does not believe all he says. This opens the question as to how much of Wrights preachings does Obama believe in. A sane person would have quit that church of hate the first time that Rev. Wright spewed such hate speech. Rev. Wright will forever be the albatrose around Obamas neck which means the election will come down to McCain and Clinton.

  • Avatar
    Frank
    March 20, 2008 at 5:59 pm

    adriana, you are either in deep denial or lying to yourself. You know it exists. You can google Aztlan. The Mexica Movement has a website. There are videos all over the place of the reconquistas movement advocates saying that whites are here illegally and that they should go back to Europe and that parts of this country still belong to Mexico in their minds and that they have plans to take it back. As I said, Mecha used to not try to hide their agenda. They were very outstpoken about it. They took a lot of flack over it and have toned down their rhetoric but their agenda is still the same. Please don’t insult my intelligence.
    What do you think will happen if illegal immigration from mostly Mexico is allowed to continue or we legalize those already here and they can bring their families in here too? Do the math, honey.

  • Avatar
    Irma
    March 20, 2008 at 8:02 pm

    Adriana,
    I realize that Latino intellectiuals invest a
    lot of personal time in community affairs. This may be one reason why we don’t have
    a Michaeloangelo etc. He never dedicated ANY time
    to Italy – he was focused on
    just one thing – his work.
    I think we are large enough as group to have a few people like that. We have Diego Rivera but there should be more like him.
    I am aware that some Latinos have black skin. In my view
    they are Latinos – their
    skin color doesnt define them – our culture does.
    Indeed, I havent met a black
    Latino who identifies with
    African Americans. I dont see why they should – they
    have nothing in common with them except maybe some DNA.
    I dont know that I can agree with you that as a group we have more in common with blacks in South Central LA
    than some poor whites. Here it is more complicated.
    I for example am first generation Mexican American from Texas. I identify quite strongly with Mexico.
    As a consequence- I was not
    a young person, atrracted to
    groups like La Raza. Indeed, when I went home and announced I was a “Chicana”
    my father told me I was not.
    There are no Chicanos in Mexico – he said, only Mexicans. As an adult, my compromise has been to call
    myself Mexican American or
    an American citizen of Mexican Heritage. I also
    recognize that I belong to a larger group loosely joined by culture and language. So
    I am also a Latina and
    a Hispanic. Not sure, my
    father would agree……
    African Americans dont really have the strong tie
    to another country like
    many Latinos do. So, speaking for myself – I feel I have more in common
    with other Latin Americans
    than African Americans.
    Thanks for the conversation,
    living on the East Coast – I dont often have the opportunity to have these kinds of discussions with
    young Latinos.
    Still, I would ask you to keep an open mind on Clinton
    versus Obama. Just because she is white doesnt mean she
    cannot understand our problems. Like many Latin families, there is a spectrum of complexions in my family. My own brother is as white as Hilary Clinton – I am not. So ,
    I dont see her as white woman – only a woman. Personally – I like what I hear.
    Irma

  • Avatar
    laura
    March 20, 2008 at 9:05 pm

    Dear mayanmx, you are right. You are expressing the compassion and striving for understanding, that people of good will everywhere, of every skin color, aim for. It is what all great religious leaders taught.
    We know there are fellow human beings too blinded by anger and hate to be capable of this effort at understanding another side. People who are incapable of compassion. Some of them write their posts here every day.
    My conclusion is: let’s clarify the truth among ourselves. No one will convince the habitual haters and racists not to rerun the same short mental tracks over and over again, and not to spew the same hate speech over and over.
    But it’s very urgent that we figure out among ourselves how to understand what is going on, and what to do. Marisa’s great posts are a wonderful opportunity for that.

  • Avatar
    mayanmx
    March 21, 2008 at 2:10 am

    EOT and Frank,
    Left…oh no, not left! Does one have to left to see fairness, truth and honor? Pues, call me de la izquierda! Does someone need to be from the left to understand how African Americans might think in the ways the Rvnd spoke given the prison statistics? Come on…really. I suppose you’d prefer to have hidden the frustration and anger people feel, to not face our past despite how uncomfortable it feels or emotions it stirs up? Well, how about you switch places then? Let’s lock up a huge percentage of the white population and see if you don’t cry foul.
    Frank, sorry you get tired of having to hear all the stories of people massacred and treated supremely unfairly by white people over history. Show you are made of something different today by at least being respectful and trying to undestand. You just spout trigger words.
    I am not saying that all races don’t struggle with the challenge perhaps no culture has ever reached: peace. I don’t say any culture, race or ethinic group has reached this level. I recommend we NOT pretend the past didn’t happen, but rather we LEARN from the past.
    Citing some Mexican official’s statement without an actual copy of this statement is ridiculous. Listen, that’s an old tired story you are regurgitating. Besides, since when do I need to be afraid in my own country of what a foreign official from any country has an opinion about?
    I am sorry you guys are afraid to hear how people feel and can not differentiate between people talking about real deep feelings and taking say, the stand to burn down southern churches. Reconciliation can happen in this country, hiding and whining because there are too many people to apologize to is just plain wimpy and not what this country is all about.
    No one is talking about reconquista because there is no land to take over again. First this was native land, but apart from any ignorance to claim otherwise, the south, west and border regions are now areas of combined histories, friendships and families.
    Its like you are stuck in some weird old reality that doesn’t exist outside your computer. I have seen plenty of pro-criminalization sites claiming people are reconquisadores, or agents of the Mexican government. I have never met anyone who has said, “pssst…did you hear, get ready, we are planning on taking over California, Texas, etc again.” I mean really.
    I have never advocated illegal immigration. What I have said is that: 1) after a system takes advantage of the presence of 12 million extra people in the country for years, its unfair to only point the finger and PUNISH, or start a hate campaign against one side, and often, one country, Mexico/ans, and 2) there are millions of people who care across borders for family, friends, business colleagues, collaborators, and that, in itself is not suspect – this reality exists APART from immigration and needs to be respected or else you can start disrespecting every cultural influence in this country and look like your ancestors in the process.
    There is no albatrose around Obama, its around the U.S.’s race relations and it needs some real honest national discussion not to be trampled on by people throwing around trigger words to spark their divisive action.
    And before you ask, no, I am not any prescription drugs so readily available.

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    Evelyn
    March 21, 2008 at 3:53 am

    For those who believe Reconquista is real, psst psst it’s not neither is the Easter Bunnie, but dont tell the kids.
    Reconquesta!: A Nativists Creation
    One of methods used by those in wingnuttia is race-baiting when ever they start fearing there is a power struggle between minorities and non-minorities. This is not new. In the early 90s, those in wingnuttia where whining how all the engineering jobs where going to foreigners.
    “AEA Action On Immigration Reform” covered AEA’s activity to seek the revision of the Immigration Reform Act of 1990 and reduce the number of visas available to foreign engineers and to reduce the number of foreign engineering students allowed to remain in the United States after they completed their education…. What about the U.S. taxpayer who funds our college empire only to see their sons and daughters going without jobs. We know the college engineering degree production exceeds the demand for our young graduates. Parents of our college graduates say their tax dollars subsidized foreign students’ education while they and their children go unemployed.
    But then in the mid-90s, once it started working, that gave them an opening to start spreading fear, or as it was called, the white male backlash. One part of this attack was to plant the seed called La Reconquista – the idea that Mexicans are invading America to reclaim it for Mexico.
    Although it started out as conspiracy theory among the white supremacists, their fears can be traced back to 1917 when Zimmermann Telegram was decoded by the British.
    Zimmermann’s message included proposals for a German alliance with Mexico, while Germany would still try to maintain a state of neutrality with the United States. If this policy were to fail, the note suggested, the Mexican government should make common cause with Germany, try to persuade the Japanese government to join the new alliance, and attack the U.S.. Germany, for its part, would provide financial assistance and the restoration of former territories of Texas (which had achieved independence in 1836), New Mexico and Arizona (which had been ceded in the US-Mexico war of 1846–1848), to Mexico.
    Some say it was this telegram that brought the U.S. into World War I. But it was in that telegram, the word reconquer was used.
    In the event of this not succeeding, we make Mexico a proposal or alliance on the following basis: make war together, make peace together, generous financial support and an understanding on our part that Mexico is to reconquer the lost territory in Texas, New Mexico, and Arizona.
    After the discovery of the telegram, race relations between Latinos and Whites have been soured, especially in the Southwest, thus, creating a situation that has lasted for decades.
    The argument being used now, is now combined with the founding documents of the Chicano movement, “El Plan Espiritual de Aztlán.”
    In the spirit of a new people that is conscious not only of its proud historical heritage but also of the brutal “gringo” invasion of our territories, we, the Chicano inhabitants and civilizers of the northern land of Aztlan from whence came our forefathers, reclaiming the land of their birth and consecrating the determination of our people of the sun, declare that the call of our blood is our power, our responsibility, and our inevitable destiny….With our heart in our hands and our hands in the soil, we declare the independence of our mestizo nation.
    El Plan is a manifesto that appeals to nationalism as a way to achieve a self-awareness and self-esteem. El Plan never asked for the return of lost territories back to Mexico. So what is “Aztlán?”
    The concept of Aztlán was originated by the poet Alurista in the year 1969 at the conference organized by Corky Gonzales in Denver. In an interview, Alurista said:
    “People call California, Arizona, Nueva Mexico and Colorado Aztlán, but really, Aztlán is wherever we are. We don’t recognize borders. It’s more a matter of cultural/political identity. When I say this is our land, I don’t mean that we own it. Who owns anything?”
    Aztlán was a spiritual concept which was meant to unite all Chican@s. Latinos through out the US are really divided because within the Southwest, Latinos in each State has own history of discrimination and oppression. Tejanos, in Texas see themselves very differently from those in New Mexico, Arizona and California because Mexico lost Texas first and this occurred way before the signing of the Treaty of Guadalupe-Hidalgo. Nuevo Mexicanos, in New Mexico also see themselves different from those in Arizona and Californianos and vise versa even though those states were established from the Treaty. Before the Chicano Movement there was no concept that united them. In other words, “Aztlán,” is spiritual concept that we are a people that have a homeland.
    It was not until recently that Glenn Spencer, of the American Patrol, started spewing this conspiracy theory that the mainstream media started picking it up:
    The so-called reconquista, the alleged plot to turn several American states into a Mexican state or some kind of puppet government controlled by Mexico, has been a top concern for Spencer for years. Back in 1999, he put it like this: “The consul general says Mexico is reconquering California. A Mexican intellectual suggests that anyone who doesn’t like Mexicans should leave California. What else do you need to hear? RECONQUISTA IS REAL… . EVERY ILLEGAL ALIEN IN OUR NATION MUST BE DEPORTED IMMEDIATELY. … IF WE CAN BOMB THE TV STATION IN BELGRADE [in the former Yugoslavia] WE CAN SHUT DOWN [U.S. Spanish-language stations] TELEMUNDO AND UNIVISION.”
    Spencer got involved in the anti-immigration movement in 1992, when he formed Voice of Citizens Together, also known as American Patrol, in California. In 2002, saying the battle was lost in that state, he moved to the “front lines” of the Arizona border, where he formed American Border Patrol. He was one of the first to call for border citizens’ patrols and pioneered the use of surveillance technology.
    Now you have people like Michelle Malkin and [/tag]Lou Dobbs[tag] feeding their audience nothing but fear. Why? Because people become very irrational when they are fearful. When that happens they defer to authority because they’re eager to be safe.
    This is nothing more but a racist appeal from the far right. The sad thing, they are winning because they have been able to convince mainstream Americans that the Mexican flags they see on TV from the marches are signs of the invasion. Even Alex Jones has been spew the same bullshit without any real research. And some how people see this as being legitimate. It is time to end this propaganda now!

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    Frank
    March 21, 2008 at 4:44 pm

    I am going to make this a general statement rather than trying to address every individuals in here who all have the same mindset anyway. I would be more than happy to post links to videos of the reconquista movement, numerous articles and websites that are supported by them but you all know that what I am saying is the truth, you just don’t want to admit it. If you would like me to do this though, I would be more than happy too. If any of you don’t want me to then it means you know it exists and don’t want the truth thrown in your denying faces. You see, unlike you, I am willing to back up my claims. All you do is say “there is no reconquista” without backing up your claims. Saying that no one has whispered it in your ear is not proof. No one wants to call attention to it. Let’s keep America dumbed down, right?
    It is noted yet again, that those of us who respect our nation’s laws and expect them to be enforced are called vile names in here again. We are supposedly racists, lack compassion, etc.(this stupidity in the face of the fact that we take in a million legal immigrants every year). The hate speech goes on and on against your fellow Americans in favor of illegal foreigners. Where is your compassion for the American people in all of this?
    I have never forgotten what has happened in history. I am just sick of white people that are alive today and weren’t when those things happened being beat up on over it. Or being used as blackmail to accept the ilegal invasion of our country and our eventual genocide for a history that we played no role in. Latinos are the majority in 22 countries and yet if we try to retain our majority in the U.S. along with our culture and language we are called racists.
    We don’t need Dobbs, Malkin or anyone to tell us how to feel. What is happening speaks for itself. The fact that we have immigration laws that are not being respected or enforced speaks for itself. The fact that we have millions of illegal aliens in our country, speaks for itself.
    As I have said before it is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things and the ultimate solution to this illegal immigration mess, that our government and the employers were in cohoots. We are a nation for the people and by the people and we intend to hold all those accountable that didn’t honor that.
    Population stablization is a very real and necessary step to take for the future of this country or any country in every way. Only someone whose agenda is not with the best interests of their country but rather some racist, ethocentric agenda would argue with that. Even if we didn’t have an illegal immigration problem, common sense would tell you that the carrying capacity of any country is limited.

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    Evelyn
    March 22, 2008 at 5:02 am

    America is being DUMBED DOWN by racism. Racism comes from ignorance and fear. Get out, educate yourselves.

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    Frank
    March 22, 2008 at 9:46 am

    Right, I think those ethnocentric racists who put racial bloodlines of foreigners above their own fellow citizens should get out or hung for treason anyway.

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    Texano78704
    March 22, 2008 at 11:32 am

    “I would be more than happy to post links to videos of the reconquista movement, numerous articles and websites that are supported by them but you all know that what I am saying is the truth, you just don’t want to admit it. If you would like me to do this though, I would be more than happy too.”
    No one is denying that such a thing exists, only that it is not in any way serious. Actually, what I would like you to do is to compare and contrast the amount of “reconquista” support to that of white supremacist groups and then tell us which is the real threat.

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    Frank
    March 22, 2008 at 4:52 pm

    You could have fooled me, Texano. There were at least a couple of people in this blog that were denying the reconquista movement or claiming only a dozen people ascribe to that agenda and that isn’t true. Mecha has chapters all over this country and the Mexica movement is alive and well. Many Hispanic citizens are advocating an illegal invasion of our country by their ethnic kind from foreign countries. Sounds like a pretty big reconquista movement to me when you add them all up.
    The KKK isn’t trying to take over this country. Whites are already the majority. They aren’t trying to change the dominant culture or language of this country. As far as their racism against other races or their claims that whites are superior, I damn them for that!
    The reconquistas and the KKK are equally a threat to this country. They both are creating division among American citizens. The reconquistas are taking it a step further though than just racism and are of a treasonous mindset against this country. They want to create a nation within our nation. Overall, the reconquistas are far more dangerous to this country.

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    Horace
    March 22, 2008 at 6:23 pm

    Adriana said: Where is our Einstein, Michelangelo, etc?
    First of all, Adriana, one should consider the cultural values of the people your refer to. The Jewish people have a culture geared toward intellectual pursuit, as do the Italians. Can Hispanics make historical claims of that kind? If they can, could someone please enlighten me. Actually, if I were Hispanic, I would be less concerned with the manifestation of the rare Einstein or Michael Angelo than I would of a failure to produce college graduates. Judging by the poor outcomes of Hispanics from Los Angeles schools, where half fail to graduate, is it a wonder that economic opportunities for Hispanics are far fewer than Asians or whites? It’s pointless to be concerned about descrimination in corporate, civil service, political or military leadership positions, when few even obtain minimum qualifications to fill those slots.

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    Texano78704
    March 22, 2008 at 8:22 pm

    “Overall, the reconquistas are far more dangerous to this country.”
    Oh sure, Frank. The next lie you tell will be saying that your are not bigot, right? And white supremacists groups consist of more than the KKK.
    Prove that Mecha and the Mexica Movement have any serious involvement in a “reconquista.” Give me numbers. You keep talking B.S. with every post you make here, but offer zero proof. Come on! You’re getting paid to post here so put some real effort into it.

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    Texano78704
    March 22, 2008 at 8:39 pm

    Wow, in my haste, I failed to address this egregious statement.
    “The KKK isn’t trying to take over this country. Whites are already the majority. They aren’t trying to change the dominant culture or language of this country.
    Technically, you are correct Frank, because Whites already have control.
    Further, white supremacist group merely want to do a range of thing: usurp the rights of non-whites to dehumanize and exterminate non-whites. That is so much nicer than trying to take control of the country, isn’t it?

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    Publius
    March 23, 2008 at 7:15 pm

    I do not believe the reconquistas are a big threat. However, I do believe that La Raza and other ethnocentric groups intend to expand the Latino population at the expense of the rest of the nation, by gaining amnesty for 12 million or so illegal immigrants who will eventually qualify for tax and welfare benefits. Their intent is to expedite the Latino expansion of political power that is otherwise ever increasing. If this is permitted, it will compound our economic problems, because as one economist once said, the first thing the poor do when they come to power is to vote higher taxes on the middle class, wealthy and private industry, in a misguided effort to gain socioeconomic justice. We’ve seen this time and again in South America, where Marxist governments have come to power. This will result in a cycle of reduction in available capital for investment and expansion of the economy. U.S. industry will find it more profitable to move overseas, resulting in fewer jobs in this country, despite increases in available cheap labor. Fewer people working will result in higher income taxes and fewer after tax profits for private industry. As you can see, importing poverty as Evelyn advocates, will only result in devestation to our national economy.
    This country is at a stage where it should put every effort in attracting the best educated and skilled, as is every Western nation in the free world. No nation or ethnic group should be permitted to override such goals for their own charitable goals. As far as I know, none of the industrialized nations are begging for charity cases, and neither are we.

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    Evelyn
    March 23, 2008 at 11:47 pm

    The reconquistas and the KKK are equally a threat to this country. They both are creating division among American citizens. The reconquistas are taking it a step further though than just racism and are of a treasonous mindset against this country. They want to create a nation within our nation. Overall, the reconquistas are far more dangerous to this country.
    I agree, the difference is reconquesta has about 3o members. KKK has millions maby 3to4. What are 30 people going to do besides get laughed at? Can you provide how many murders or hate crimes reconquesta has comitted? I can give you documented cases of murders and hate crimes comitted by KKK.

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    Frank
    March 24, 2008 at 8:22 am

    That is a lie! When you add up all the “components” of reconquista aka illegal immigration, illegal alien advocates, reconquista organizations and other advocacy organizations that seek to increase the numbers in this country by their own ethnic kind, reconquista is in the millions.
    I already damned the KKK and other race based organizations. I guess some can’t read in here or choose to read only what they want to.

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    Texano78704
    March 24, 2008 at 9:13 am

    “I do believe that La Raza and other ethnocentric groups intend to expand the Latino population…”
    And exactly how to they express that intent? By seeking justice and fair treatment for undocumented workers?
    Publius, I do not know from which text book you are reading, but I can tell you that, in general, the poor do not vote in this country. So, how are they going to “come to power?” Believe me, if they did vote, we would see far stronger action by the economic elite (through their political arm, the GOP), to engage voter suppression.
    As far as “Marxist in South America,” I can tell you that economic result was far better than it has been for “free market” capitalism. From the late 1950’s through the 1970’s, Latin America had a great deal of social or statism as part of the economy. Economic growth ran in excess of 30% during that period. Beginning the 1980’s, led by Reagan acting through the World Bank and IMF, “free market reforms” brought the economic growth in Latin America to virtual standstill, gaining only a few percentage points.
    US industries already find it more profitable to move overseas, thanks in no small part to George “the outsourcing president” Bush.
    I think you are just scapegoating.

  • Avatar
    Texano78704
    March 24, 2008 at 2:06 pm

    “When you add up all the “components” of reconquista aka illegal immigration, illegal alien advocates, reconquista organizations and other advocacy organizations that seek to increase the numbers in this country by their own ethnic kind, reconquista is in the millions.”
    Now this is what I am talking about. Imminent threat from “reconquistas” fails, so Frank repackages the assertion. Prove your assertion(s), Frank. Show some proof instead of blowhard opinion.

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    Frank
    March 24, 2008 at 3:47 pm

    Texano, let’s not play dumb here, ok? All of the ethnocentric advocacy groups for Hispanics are calling for “justice and equality” which means to them legalization and a path to citizenship and therefore future voters. Most Americans and our Constitution’s interpretation of justice and equality isn’t that. Once legalized they would be able to petition for their extended family to come here…more votes to suppport ethnocentric interests.
    Our American jobs are in jeopardy due to both outsourcing and illegal immigration. No scapegoating needed it is just the facts.

  • Avatar
    Frank
    March 24, 2008 at 7:19 pm

    Here is a whole pagefull of reconquista videos for you. Enjoy and don’t forget the popcorn.
    http://www.thedustininmansociety.org/thousand_words/baldwin_park_2005may14.html

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    Texano78704
    March 24, 2008 at 8:31 pm

    “Most Americans and our Constitution’s interpretation of justice and equality isn’t that.”
    Yes, let’s not play dumb. Prove that it is “most Americans” that are not for a path to citizenship.
    After you prove that, prove your first statement about advocacy groups. Facts, Frank, not your own personal opinion.

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    Publius
    March 24, 2008 at 8:36 pm

    “Publius, I do not know from which text book you are reading, but I can tell you that, in general, the poor do not vote in this country. So, how are they going to “come to power?”
    I don’t buy the idea that the poor don’t vote, and even if it were so, past performance is no guarrantee of what might occur in the future, as they say in my mutual fund’s prospectus. I believe that La Raza’s et al’s vew is to the contrary. Only the naive would advocate that what is essentially a political group as La Raza wouldn’t view increasing its constituency as a power play. We’ve heard many political pundits state that politicians will suffer expulsion from office should they oppose amnesty or other Hispanic special interests. The threats would become more shrill and credible as the Hispanic constituency grows. You’re being disingenuous if you deny it.

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    Marisa Treviño
    March 24, 2008 at 8:39 pm

    Frank, Thanks for this source. I’ll have a look at it and get back with you but you’re really working yourself over nothing – I promise you!

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    Publius
    March 24, 2008 at 9:54 pm

    “Frank, Thanks for this source. I’ll have a look at it and get back with you but you’re really working yourself over nothing – I promise you!”
    Marisa, perhaps he is, but so is Evelyn, with her rabid anti-Anglo self-hater rants, alleging that all opposition to illegal immigration has a racist, KKK and xenophobic overtones. You apparently have much tolerance of Maxists and left-winger blame-America-first-and-foremost whackos for all the world’s problems, but when citizens are concerned about well known white hating racists AZTLANDERS you pooh-pooh it. Believe it or not, there are some people who oppose illegal immigration on economic grounds and don’t fit into Evelyn’s one-size-fits-all racist, KKK, white trash mold.

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    Frank
    March 25, 2008 at 8:11 am

    Texano, there are many reputable, unbiased polls out there that state that most Americans are not in favor of an amnesty/path to citizenship answer to deal with illegal aliens. I will post some when I get the time. In the meantime, here are some more videos for you. Bon appetit!
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4079499593161470737

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    Evelyn
    March 25, 2008 at 9:26 am

    When racist like Publius use names like rabid, KKK and white trash (knowing these words describe himself to a tee) directed toward me as vengeance, I know it’s time to celebrate because they have lost.
    Calling me names isn’t going to stop me from telling the truth or advocating for justice and equality for all. HA! HA! HA! I am not a cry baby, call me all the names you want, I know in my heart that I am right and you are wrong. I dont even wish anything bad for you. I just pity people like you. You are lost!

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    Texano78704
    March 25, 2008 at 9:34 am

    Wow, Frank! A whole page full of videos! From a “riot” on a single day in May of 2005. By “500 rabid anti-American socialists, anarchists, Brown Berets, and Mechistas,” no less! What percentage of 300,000,000 is 500?
    And, of course, we can be assured that all 500 were surveyed to affirm their undying support for the quixotic “reconquista” quest. It has to be that quest, right? I mean, it could not possibly be a protest against political marginalization, against repression or for justice.
    “I don’t buy the idea that the poor don’t vote…”
    In 2004, the turn out was only 55.3%, the highest it has been since 1968. You are trying to tell us that most of about 45% that did not vote are the the middle and upper classes? I have no doubt there is some middle class apathy, but not that much. The rich vote with their dollars more than they do in the polling booth, but I bet they still go to pull the levers any way.
    Social classes are not the same as mutual funds. Publius, not only are you scapegoating, you are hedging your bets as well.

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    EYES OF TEXAS
    March 25, 2008 at 9:52 am

    Movimiento Estudiantil Chicano de Aztlan
    “Por La Raza todo. Fuera de La Raza nada.”
    “Everything for the race. Everything outside the race, nothing.”
    Pretty much says it all. American citizens, of all ethnicities, are not going to roll over and play dead while this type of mentality exists within our own borders. MENChA members are usually the ones at the pro-immigrant rallies wearing the ski masks or the bandanas around their cowardly faces, making most of the noise trying to rally everyone into a physical confrontation while they sneak away back into the hole they crawled out of.

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    Texano78704
    March 25, 2008 at 11:33 am

    “MENChA members are usually the ones at the pro-immigrant rallies wearing the ski masks…”
    Dang! And I thought those guys were the all the Zapatista wannbes. Sounds like another opinion against free speech.
    Why not do like everyone does when the KKK, Stormfront, or the Neo-Nazis have a rally?
    Oh, wait… real ‘Muricans should roll over these guys, right? Or better yet, roll over for a government that sends your middle-class job overseas.

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    Frank
    March 25, 2008 at 2:57 pm

    Texano, I posted the single video by mistake the first time. I meant to post the link that had a few more videos instead. I have since posted that one.
    You can stick your head in the sand all you want but as I said with the Mexica Movement, Aztlantistas, Reconquistas, NCLR and other advocacy groups who are a front for increasing their ethnic numbers in this country by illegal immigration, the ethnocentric Hispanics such as yourself doing likewise and Hispanic politicians also, there is one big reconquista movement in the making in this country. We aren’t stupid you know.

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    EYES OF TEXAS
    March 25, 2008 at 3:26 pm

    Twang! Hit a nerve too close to the heart? My post was to demonstrate the racially driven agenda of certain Hispanic organizations that are widespread across America. Whether the “reconquista” movement is an organized plan or not, it is happening by the sheer numbers of illegal aliens coming here from south of the border. Those that advocate legalizing the millions that are already here, while allowing the border to remain wide open, salivate at the thought of one day being the majority in the U.S.. Reconquista complete by people that will have all their allegiance and loyalty to Mexico.

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    Texano78704
    March 26, 2008 at 10:16 am

    “Whether the “reconquista” movement is an organized plan or not, it is happening by the sheer numbers of illegal aliens coming here from south of the border.”
    Perhaps… perhaps not. The real irony is that it is driven by the demand for cheap labor. And that does not come from any “reconquista movement.”

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    Frank
    March 27, 2008 at 10:07 am

    Right, so let’s endorse the SAVE ACT so that the employers stop circumventing our immigration and labor laws in their hiring practices. That would pull them back in line again and send most of the illegals home and it put put a dent in the reconquista agenda for those who are advocating it. While we are at it, let’s endorse securing our borders as that will put a crimp in the reconquista plan to. Let’s haul the traitors off to jail that are advocating a reconquista agenda, shall we?
    Let’s get the 14th Amendment re-interpreted correctly so that children born of illegals don’t become instant citizens. Let’s remove any social benefits for those here illegally in our country.
    Let’s endorse internal enforcement of our immigration laws to shall we? Well at least those would be the kinds of things that loyal Americasn would want to see happen. Those who don’t are part of the reconquista movement either directly or indirectly.

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    Texano78704
    March 27, 2008 at 12:29 pm

    First of all, the SAVE Act is a piece of flawed legislation. Further, it doesn’t stand a chance in Hell being passed by the House, much less the Senate. And finally, it is a law that would run counter to the desires of the majority of the US. Kind of sucks when democracy gets in your way, doesn’t it?
    As for the Fourteenth Amendment, you just do not overturn a Supreme Court ruling or interpretation, there would have to be a legislative process. Kind of sucks when democracy gets in your way, doesn’t it?
    And as for enforcement of immigration laws per the view of “loyal Americans,” law enforcement should not work that way. You cannot deny the right to have a voice in the political process to people or groups you deem “disloyal.” Last time I checked, you have to be convicted of a felony in order to lose your right to vote.
    I must say that I am not surprised by your totalitarian viewpoint. But, I bet it does kind of suck when democracy gets in your way, doesn’t it?

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    Frank
    March 27, 2008 at 10:47 pm

    So what is flawed about the Save Act? You are wrong, most Americans who know what this bill stands for are overwhelmingly in favor of it because it makes sense and holds our employers accoutable to our labor and immigration laws.
    The 14th can be re-interpreted and it should be.
    We the people don’t vote on legislation like the Save Act, congress does.
    I don’t see democracy getting in the way of any of these things that make sense for Americans. Most Americans want these things to come to pass.

  • Avatar
    Texano78704
    March 28, 2008 at 9:20 am

    What is flawed about the SAVE Act? Do your own research or look at what its detractors are saying. Quite being so lazy and believing what the hate groups that pay you to post here are telling you.
    For the umpteenth time, any time you want to prove that “most Americans want these things to pass,” feel free to prove it.

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    Irma
    March 28, 2008 at 1:45 pm

    La Raza, Mencha etc are political organizations whose membership is
    primarily Mexican American. They
    are not racist organizations.
    Not all Mexican Americans agree with their politics but defend their right
    to organize.

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    Frank
    March 28, 2008 at 5:11 pm

    Stop accusing me of being paid for posting in here!!! There is absolutely no truth to that. Do you always make up stuff about others with no proof of that? Are Horace, EOT and Liquid also being paid? You just can’t stand the fact that there are loyal, law-abiding Americans that care enough about this country to confront seditionists like yourself.
    I know what is in the SAVE ACT and there is nothing flawed about it unless one has an un-American ethnocentric agenda and cares more about their own ethnic kind here illegally rather that this country and it’s citizens. If you don’t think that most Americans want secure borders and the employers held accoutable for breaking our immigration and labor laws, then essentially what you are saving is that most Americans are in favor of lawlessness and don’t respect the sovieringty and safety of our nation. You are nuts if you think that.

  • Avatar
    Texano78704
    March 29, 2008 at 11:27 am

    “Stop accusing me of being paid for posting in here!!! There is absolutely no truth to that.”
    Methinks the lady doth protest too much…

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    Frank
    March 29, 2008 at 8:06 pm

    Me thinks you are the paid poster in here but at least if you denied it, I wouldn’t call you a liar.

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    Evelyn
    March 29, 2008 at 11:54 pm

    She does cry and whine and when she doesent get her way she throws a hissie fit. Is a racist. Is a hypocrite. Is ignorant. Is a liar. Doesn’t want to be called what she is.

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    Frank
    March 30, 2008 at 7:31 pm

    Who the hell is she?

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    Frank
    March 30, 2008 at 7:33 pm

    Oh, you were describing yourself! LOL!

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    Horace
    March 30, 2008 at 7:46 pm

    Irma said: “La Raza, Mencha etc are political organizations whose membership is primarily Mexican American. They are not racist organizations.”
    Sure, and the KKK is just a political organization whose memberhip is primarily for Anglos. It is not a racist organization.
    Both advocate for their ethnocentric constituencies at the expense of others. Just as you suspect the KKK, Anglos suspect the motives of any organization that has as the interests one people at heart. Such organizations are indicative of immaturity.
    I noted that one Hispanic respondant in this forum advocated the establishment of Hispanic dominated institutions. It seems that even minorities haven’t learned the lessons of Brown v. Board of Education, where separate but equal was considered anathema to our society. Is this separate but equal something we might expect from a Hispanic majority?
    Imagine how Hispanics would react if white people were to form organizations that exclude others. Is it any wonder that distrust springs from such exclusive institutions?

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    Frank
    March 31, 2008 at 8:41 am

    Oh but didn’t you know Horace that only White people can be racists according to the “Brown” racists? Therefore they think they are entitled to their advocacy groups but not White people.
    Personally I object to all advocacy groups. It just creates division in this country. We should all think of ourselves only as Americans and nothing else. Who gives a rat’s behind what your skin color, race or ethnicity is?

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    Texano78704
    March 31, 2008 at 10:02 am

    “Both advocate for their ethnocentric constituencies at the expense of others.”
    Historically speaking, the KKK and other white supremacist group have violated the civil rights of African-Americans and other minorities in various ways, such as by intimidation, murder, etc. What exactly do La Raza and Mecha do that is comparable to this?
    “It seems that even minorities haven’t learned the lessons of Brown v. Board of Education, where separate but equal was considered anathema to our society.”
    First of all, I can assure you that even the Texas state legislature has yet to learn the lessons of Brown v. Board of Education. What specific state and federal institutions are you referring to? This web site? LOL!
    “Imagine how Hispanics would react if white people were to form organizations that exclude others.”
    Um, they do do that, but I like the way you pretend to be the victim of racism. Are you suggesting that that the Jewish Defense League be abolished as well?

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    Frank
    March 31, 2008 at 8:25 pm

    The Hispanic advocacy groups are supremist groups by advocating the illegal entry of their own ethnic kind into this country. The Hispanic citizens who follow their agenda are traitors to this country. What could be worse than that? Why does there have to be a “comparison” between them and what the KKK stands for anyway? They are both wrong and both racist groups.

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    Marisa Treviño
    March 31, 2008 at 10:01 pm

    Frank, please show me where any recognized Hispanic advocacy group advocates the illegal entry of any people.
    Thanks

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    Texano78704
    April 1, 2008 at 8:34 am

    Frank doesn’t show anything, he just makes baseless assertions and expects the slime to stand up by itself.

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    Motion
    April 12, 2008 at 11:09 am

    Irma,
    [ I am aware that some Latinos have black skin. In my view
    they are Latinos – their
    skin color doesnt define them – our culture does. ]
    Well there’s more to it than that. Their skin color does shape how they’re viewed. Basically I’ve heard some Afro-Latinos point out that they’re not Black enough for many Black-Americans and they’re too Black for many Latinos. So their looks do play a role in how they’re precieved.
    [ Indeed, I havent met a black
    Latino who identifies with
    African Americans. I dont see why they should – they
    have nothing in common with them except maybe some DNA. ]
    It can depend on how they’re identifying with Black-Americans. Culturally no,just like Black-Jamaicans are culturally different from Black-Americans but experiance wise we share some similarities. We’re all connected by Africa,slavery and various forms of discrimination in our particular countries.

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