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Latina Lista: News from the Latinx perspective > Palabra Final > Immigration > Special Alert: New Orleans’ undocumented workers must leave region before Hurricane Gustav but fear ICE

Special Alert: New Orleans’ undocumented workers must leave region before Hurricane Gustav but fear ICE

LatinaLista — (The following is a press release that was issued today for undocumented workers in the New Orleans’ area who may be afraid to evacuate due to ICE immigration enforcement.)

IMMIGRANT WORKERS GAIN KEY ASSURANCE FROM HOMELAND SECURITY;
NO CHECKPOINTS ALONG EVACUATION ROUTES FROM GUSTAV
Immigrant workers demanding a safe evacuation from the path of Hurricane Gustav received key assurances from the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) that no immigration enforcement actions or checkpoints would occur in the evacuation process or along evacuation routes. The New Orleans Workers’ Center for Racial Justice gained the assurances for safe passage of immigrant workers just as mandatory evacuations began across the Gulf Coast. The exact agreement is below.
As Gustav approached, immigrant workers and their families feared evacuation due to anticipation over Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) and U.S. Border Patrol checkpoints. Of the over 200 surveys of day laborers which the Workers’ Center conducted as Hurricane Gustav approached, the fear of detention and deportation by DHS was identified as the single greatest obstacle to accessing humanitarian relief. “We want to take our families to safety. We should not have to face deportation as we escape from the storm” said Dennis Soriano, an organizer with the Congress of Day Laborers.
Hundreds of thousands of immigrant workers arrived in the Gulf Coast in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina to assist in the reconstruction of New Orleans and other cities. However, even as they were contributing to the rebuilding efforts, they faced extraordinary abuse, including high levels of wage theft, police brutality and massive immigration raids.
“This agreement would be the first clear assurance of safety from the federal government to immigrant workers who came to the Gulf Coast in the aftermath of Katrina” said Saket Soni, Director of the Workers’ Center. “It’s a small victory on the path to a humane and just relief effort.”
Despite these assurances, immigrant workers and their advocates expressed concern about the treatment immigrants would receive in the relief effort. “Once we have evacuated safely, will DHS come to the shelters?” asked Soriano; “When we are returning home to rebuild the city, will we face DHS checkpoints on our way back?”
“We hope that these public assurances from DHS will be the first step towards a Memorandum of Understanding that clearly establishes what we all know: there’s no place for immigration enforcement in humanitarian relief” said Jennifer Rosenbaum, Counsel to the Workers’ Center. Ms. Rosenbaum has represented hundreds of immigrant workers in post-Katrina New Orleans efforts.
Soni said immigrant workers would continue to fight for access to the relief. “Just like everyone else who was forced to leave, immigrant workers and their families want to stay safe in the shelters, and they want to come home to New Orleans and help rebuild their city.”
The New Orleans Workers’ Center for Racial Justice is a membership based organization that works with African-American and immigrant workers in the post-Katrina landscape.

###

AUGUST 31, 2008
DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY
OFFICE FOR CIVIL RIGHTS AND CIVIL LIBERTIES
Gustav
· All residents of the Gulf Coast region need to evacuate.
· There are no immigration enforcement operations, and there are no
immigration enforcement checkpoints associated with the evacuations.
· The Department of Homeland Security’s top priorities in any emergency are life-saving and life-sustaining activities, preventing the loss of property to the extent possible, and assisting with a speedy recovery of the affected region.
Gustav
· Todos los residentes del la región de la Costa del Golfo deben evacuar.
· No hay operacions de inmigración, y no hay puntos de inmigración asociados con las evacuaciones.
· Las prioridades mas altas del Departamento de Seguridad Nacional (DHS por sus siglas en Ingles) en cualquier emergencia son las de salvar y sostener la vida, preevenir la pérdida de propiedad lo tanto posible, y asistir con la recuperación de la región afectada.

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Comment(42)

  • Avatar
    Michaela
    September 1, 2008 at 1:36 am

    “Immigrant workers demanding a safe evacuation from the path of Hurricane Gustav received key assurances from the Department of Homeland Security (DHS)”
    Although I do agree ALL persons, regardless of status, should be guaranteed a safe evacuation, I do find myself resenting the DEMANDING part. As an American citizen I do not DEMAND things from people trying to help me and this attitude of these people is very disturbing to me.

  • Avatar
    laura
    September 2, 2008 at 9:36 pm

    Michaela, you don’t think that you have a right to demand help in the face of an approaching hurricane? Did the people in the Superdome in New Orleana three years ago, without water or medicines, with dead people lying next to them, have a right to demand help?
    If it is disturbing to you that human beings demand help when their lives are in danger, I suggest you notify your health insurance company. They may be delighted to learn you won’t be demanding their help in your next medical emergency.

  • Avatar
    Evelyn
    September 3, 2008 at 5:46 am

    Illegal immigrants opted to stay during Gustav
    The fear of being arrested or deported kept many of them from leaving
    Raul Hernandez, a native of Mexico, looks out the door at the house where he is living in New Orleans, on Tuesday. Hernandez is an illegal immigrant who has been helping rebuilding New Orleans since Hurricane Katrina. He stayed behind when Gustav struck because he was afraid of being arrested if he boarded the buses and trains arranged by emergency officials.
    updated 5:47 p.m. CT, Tues., Sept. 2, 2008
    NEW ORLEANS – Many of the illegal immigrants who have been rebuilding New Orleans since Hurricane Katrina stayed behind when Gustav struck because they were afraid of being arrested if they boarded the buses and trains arranged by emergency officials.
    “We know that people died during Katrina, but we had no choice but to stay here,” said Carlos Mendoza, a 21-year-old illegal immigrant from Honduras who rode out the storm with seven other people. They took shelter in an apartment that is close to a street corner where day laborers congregate.
    “Many stayed because of fear,” Mendoza said. “I would say at least 50 percent of us.”
    Authorities offered to evacuate residents on buses and trains — and promised not to ferret out illegal immigrants. But fear of being arrested or deported kept Mendoza and every other undocumented person he knows from accepting the free ride.
    Immigrant-rights groups estimate the city is home to as many as 30,000 illegal immigrants. No one knows how many stayed behind.
    Reconstruction boom attracted immigrants
    New Orleans’ Hispanic population is tiny compared to other major American cities. But it was practically nonexistent until Katrina destroyed large swaths of the city. The reconstruction boom attracted thousands of illegal immigrants, mostly men from Mexico and Central America who worked as day laborers.
    The jobs aren’t quite as plentiful as they were immediately after Katrina. And even when work was easy to find, the pay wasn’t always enough for immigrants to afford cars and the money needed to flee from a storm on their own.
    On top of that, the government’s crackdown on illegal immigrants has made day laborers nervous to travel.
    “Moving around has become very difficult for undocumented workers,” said Pablo Alvarado, director of the National Day Labor Organizing Network.
    The city did take some steps to make it easier: evacuation news releases were distributed in Spanish, and the city’s 311 number had Spanish-speaking operators.
    “Every action that we took in English, we tried to do in Spanish as well,” city spokesman James Ross said.
    But the message did not get through to wary Hispanic communities that have experienced increased immigration raids in recent years, said Jacinta Gonzalez, a day labor organizer with the New Orleans Workers Center for Racial Justice.
    Adding to the difficulties, Gonzalez said, were problems with the 311 service. Several day laborers complained of being on hold for more than 30 minutes before getting connected with a Spanish-speaking operator.
    Evacuation included registration
    And when illegal immigrants realized they would be asked to register to be evacuated, the situation became even more untenable, she said. Part of the evacuation plan included giving evacuees wristbands with identifying information that could be entered into a computer database to track where people were.
    “The government didn’t give people assurances that they would be returned to New Orleans” and not deported, Gonzalez said. “Just sending out press releases the day before the evacuation isn’t going to work.”
    In the Central City neighborhood, home to many Hispanics, some who stayed could be seen peeking out their windows as police patrols passed by to enforce a curfew. Several declined interviews or would not open the door.
    “I told them all to leave,” said Raymond Francois, resident who returned to his home Tuesday and was knocking on doors of Hispanic neighbors who stayed. “But they told me they couldn’t. They were worried about not having papers.”
    Avoiding checkpoints during departure
    Santiago Gradiz, a 61-year-old illegal immigrant from Honduras, got a ride to Houston with a handful of other people in the same situation. They left Saturday, he said, to try to avoid any checkpoints.
    He and 10 others are staying in a one-room apartment, and they don’t plan to return to New Orleans until cleanup efforts are complete and extra police and soldiers are no longer on the streets. Besides the danger of the storm, Gradiz said, he was afraid that staying could also get him deported because he would be more noticeable to police.
    “Luckily I had some money from working the day before moving furniture,” and could help pay the costs of the trip, he said.
    Jose Gordillo, 50, never even considered trying to leave. The Mexico native and his two adult sons, all three illegal immigrants, instead stayed in their rented house.
    “It’s been a few weeks since we got work, so we didn’t have the money to leave,” Gordillo said. “I felt a little panicked during the storm, but with God’s help we made it.”
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26513677

  • Avatar
    Evelyn
    September 3, 2008 at 5:55 am

    The immigrants who are undocumented dont demand anything. They dont like to make waves.
    It is those who are their voice, activists, their relatives and ordinary people who know right from wrong who DEMAND they be treated according to the rights afforded immigrants and all people within our borders.

  • Avatar
    Liquidmicro
    September 3, 2008 at 9:48 am

    “It is those who are their voice, activists, their relatives and ordinary people who know right from wrong who DEMAND they be treated according to the rights afforded immigrants and all people within our borders.”
    So its the people who ASSUME that “Illegal Immigrants” want citizenship. Its the people who ASSUME they want to come out of the shadows. Its the people who ASSUME they know whats best for the “Illegal Immigrant”. etc, etc, etc. That’s a lot of ASSUMING on the peoples part, don’t you think??
    Visas are in place to make sure Immigrants have rights here, if they choose to come here without one, then they have given up their rights here, they have no protections. And before you start your screaming of the Bill of Rights and the Constitution, I refer you to previous topics in which this was discussed and your own letter told you they are only entitled to the UN’s Bill of Rights and Constitution of Human Rights. Force the farmers to obtain the H-2A visa the way it is, not the newer version attempting to be passed removing migrants rights for the sake of the farmer. That’s what you can do to make sure they have Rights.

  • Avatar
    Michaela
    September 3, 2008 at 5:34 pm

    “Immigrant workers demanding a safe evacuation received key assurances from DHS that no immigration enforcement actions or checkpoints would occur.”
    DEMANDING THAT NO ENFORCEMENT ACTION BE TAKEN AGAINST THEM? MAKING DEMANDS WHEN THEY ARE IN THIS COUNTRY ILLEGALLY??? WOULD MEXICO DO THAT FOR AMERICANS IN THEIR COUNTRY IN VIOLATION OF THEIR IMMIGRATION LAWS?
    Laura
    “If it is disturbing to you that human beings demand help when their lives are in danger.”
    Laura, they are DEMANDING we evacuate them safely and DEMANDING we protect them from their illegal presence in our country. Americans perceive that as pure arrogance.
    IS IT WORTH IT TO THESE ILLEGAL ALIENS TO LIVE IN ALL THIS FEAR?
    —“Many stayed because of fear,” Mendoza said. “I would say at least 50 percent of us.”
    —“But fear of being arrested or deported kept Mendoza and every other undocumented person he knows from accepting the free ride.
    —“On top of that, the government’s crackdown on illegal immigrants has made day laborers nervous to travel.”
    —“Several day laborers complained of being on hold for more than 30 minutes before getting connected with a Spanish-speaking operator.”
    THERE SHOULD HAVE BEEN AT LEAST A “MINIMAL” EFFORT ON THE PART OF THESE PEOPLE TO LEARN ENGLISH. THERE COMES A POINT WHEN PEOPLE HAVE TO TAKE RESPONSIBLITY FOR THEIR OWN ACTIONS!!!
    —“And when illegal immigrants realized they would be asked to register to be evacuated, the situation became even more untenable…”
    —“I told them all to leave,” “But they told me they couldn’t. They were worried about not having papers.”
    —“They left Saturday, he said, to try to avoid any checkpoints.”
    IT IS RIDICULOUS TO LIVE IN FEAR LIKE THIS. THEY NEED TO GO THROUGH THE PROCESS OF BEING HERE LEGALLY. SIMPLE SOLUTION. NO MORE FEAR. AMERICANS ARE NOT TO BLAME FOR THIS “UNTENABLE” SITUATION. WE ALL MAKE OUR OWN CHOICES AND HAVE TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEM.!!

  • Avatar
    Rick
    September 3, 2008 at 8:49 pm

    Since when in the history of the United States has ICE or homeland security set up check points inside our country (especially during a disaster) to look for illegals. Let’s see–manpower is so short that they’re calling in the national guard to help—yet you honestly think there’s government officials who want to create illegal immigrant check points? C’mon–that’s just plain dumb.
    Also, why do you moderate comments?
    I can’t believe I’m actually on this website and don’t know how I found it but–I checked it on alexa.com and your like the 887,000 most popular website in the whole world and that ranking really sucks–so this will be the last time I visit.
    It’s people like you who make me want to report the illegals working at my business and you know what–first thing tomorrow I’m going to report them–so thanks for the motivation.

  • Avatar
    Michaela
    September 3, 2008 at 11:17 pm

    Rick said:
    “It’s people like you who make me want to report the illegals working at my business and you know what–first thing tomorrow I’m going to report them–so thanks for the motivation.”
    I rest my case Evelyn. This is what your bizarre demands and irrational rantings are getting you – the anger of the American people and a determined resolve to end this crisis of illegal immigration into our country once and for all. Americans DO not and WILL not put up with anarchists and agents of the Mexican government TELLING US how to run OUR OWN COUNTRY!!!!!
    Americans are damn good at making their OWN demands and your side is helping gear up the anger and knowledge needed to conquer your hate and racism toward us. We will not tolerate American hating, white hating racists who have the unmitigated audacity to tell US how to rule our own country!!!

  • Avatar
    Evelyn
    September 4, 2008 at 6:24 am

    liquid said
    So its the people who ASSUME that “Illegal Immigrants” want citizenship. Its the people who ASSUME they want to come out of the shadows. Its the people who ASSUME they know whats best for the “Illegal Immigrant”. etc, etc, etc. That’s a lot of ASSUMING on the peoples part, don’t you think??
    E
    We dont base our actions on lies and assumptions like your side does.
    This shows you are assuming it is by choice they come with the status of Illegal.
    That assumption is simply not true.
    ~~~~~~~~~
    Visas are in place to make sure Immigrants have rights here, if they choose to come here without one, then they have given up their rights here, they have no protections.
    E
    Since you know so much tell me where is the line they can get into to get one of these visas you claim are so readily available?
    Even if immigrants are present in this country without proper documentation they are still covered by the same rights as American citizens. Except the right to run for public office and the right to vote.
    ~~~~~~~
    And before you start your screaming of the Bill of Rights and the Constitution, I refer you to previous topics in which this was discussed and your own letter told you they are only entitled to the UN’s Bill of Rights and Constitution of Human Rights.
    Force the farmers to obtain the H-2A visa the way it is, not the newer version attempting to be passed removing migrants rights for the sake of the farmer. That’s what you can do to make sure they have Rights.
    E
    LOL! Getting mad isnt going to change the fact that all people within our borders already enjoy rights regardless of their status. You are deluding yourself by trying to prove otherwise. That is why I dont respond to your rants. Once more here is proof of what I say.
    All you bring are your opinions or those from a xenophobic hate filled website trying spin on the issue of immigrants rights to see if anyone will lap it up!
    I include a copy of the Declaration of Independence and another article explaining what rights all immigrants and citizens are entitled to.
    I dont expect you to get it liquid, so dont think I posted them for your benefit.
    International human-rights law uses much the same terminology to recognize these—and a few additional—rights of noncitizens. The parallels are no coincidence. When the nations of the world gathered together after the nightmare of Nazism to create the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, they looked to U.S. constitutional principles and the Bill of Rights for inspiration and guidance. The notion that all persons, whatever their legal status, have basic rights was then further elaborated in numerous international treaties.
    In other contexts, the United States has a practice of limiting its human-rights obligations in the treaties it ratifies. But there are no such limits on immigrants’ rights. None of the reservations and understandings the United States has entered for key treaties—including the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, the 1951 Refugee Convention, the Convention on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination, or the Convention Against Torture and Other, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment—specifically limit noncitizens’ rights.
    http://hrw.org/english/docs/2004/10/01/usdom10493.htm
    ~~~~~~~~~~
    The United States Declaration of Independence
    IN CONGRESS, JULY 4, 1776
    The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America
    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
    http://apfte.net/Pages/Constitution/Declaration%20of%20Independence.htm

  • Avatar
    Evelyn
    September 4, 2008 at 7:36 am

    DEMANDING THAT NO ENFORCEMENT ACTION BE TAKEN AGAINST THEM? MAKING DEMANDS WHEN THEY ARE IN THIS COUNTRY ILLEGALLY??? WOULD MEXICO DO THAT FOR AMERICANS IN THEIR COUNTRY IN VIOLATION OF THEIR IMMIGRATION LAWS?
    E
    When the weather turns nasty in Mexico they dont start asking all foreigners or only Americans for documentation to prove their status, so to answer your question, Yes they already have.
    ~~~~~~~~~
    IS IT WORTH IT TO THESE ILLEGAL ALIENS TO LIVE IN ALL THIS FEAR?
    E
    I have asked them that, because I see all the hardship they have to endure.
    They have told me it is better then watching their families die of starvation.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~
    THERE SHOULD HAVE BEEN AT LEAST A “MINIMAL” EFFORT ON THE PART OF THESE PEOPLE TO LEARN ENGLISH. THERE COMES A POINT WHEN PEOPLE HAVE TO TAKE RESPONSIBLITY FOR THEIR OWN ACTIONS!!!
    E
    There is, and it is not minimal, it is monumental. I teach an English class at a community center and the waiting list for these classes is huge.
    I teach children who are already enrolled in school. There are 72 children on the waiting list.
    The Adult waiting list is 217. This is in a city that has several community centers offering classes.
    Ingles Sin Barreras, English Without Barriers is the best selling set of videos for spanish speakers to learn English in the U.S. They target Immigrants and the cost is twelve hundred dollars. Immigrants are more then willing to pay this price in payments. The companies profits show this. The company spokeswoman also spoke of the integrity of immigrants.
    When asked how they could trust immigrants without proper documentation to make payments she stated, immigrants learning English were better credit risks then citizens learning spanish.
    Today’s Immigrants Learn English as Fast as Yesterday’s Did
    ”English only” laws canonize intolerance and bigotry and are contrary to the spirit of tolerance and diversity embodied in our Constitution.
    They are also based on false, xenophobic assumptions, which echo earlier periods when the nativist movement disenfranchised Yiddish speakers in New York, Chinese speakers in California and prohibited American Indian children from speaking their own languages in school.
    Contrary to the fears conjured by English-only advocates, today’s immigrants are assimilating into United States society and acquiring English proficiency as fast as previous generations of immigrants. The sociologist Calvin Veltman found that today’s Hispanic immigrants are learning English as fast as earlier generations of European immigrants. A 1985 Rand Corporation study shows the same.
    http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=950DEEDF1E3BF93AA1575AC0A96F948260

  • Avatar
    Evelyn
    September 4, 2008 at 7:56 am

    Rick :
    HYPOCRITE! You probably dont even have a job because you are lazy much less a company that employees immigrants.
    If you did you would do everything in your power to keep them.
    ~~~~~~~
    Since when in the history of the United States has ICE or homeland security set up check points inside our country (especially during a disaster) to look for illegals. Let’s see–manpower is so short that they’re calling in the national guard to help—yet you honestly think there’s government officials who want to create illegal immigrant check points? C’mon–that’s just plain dumb.
    ~
    If you can pull your head out, there ARE border patrol checkpoints in the interior of the U.S., and it is Gov. Officials who announces they are going to set up these check points, so no we dont ‘honestly think.’ WE KNOW!
    People like you make me hate liars, Hypocrites and racism even more!

  • Avatar
    Liquidmicro
    September 4, 2008 at 11:11 am

    Oh Evelyn, trying to change and spin what I have said does nothing for you.
    I’ll respond in order.
    E says:
    We dont base our actions on lies and assumptions like your side does.
    This shows you are assuming it is by choice they come with the status of Illegal.
    That assumption is simply not true.

    Yet that is exactly what you do, you base your opinion on others opinion, you call others who do not agree with you liars, etc. You have ‘assumed’ they come wanting legal status. Your assumptions are no different than anybody else’s.
    ———
    E says:
    Since you know so much tell me where is the line they can get into to get one of these visas you claim are so readily available?
    Even if immigrants are present in this country without proper documentation they are still covered by the same rights as American citizens. Except the right to run for public office and the right to vote.
    ….
    The line for obtaining the visa begins at the US Embassy in the country they are applying from. They can only obtain or be given a visa if there is a need for them, otherwise they have no right to come here, it’s that simple.
    There you go obfuscating the difference of ‘legal’ vs ‘illegal’, sorry for your ignorance.
    International Human Rights Laws do include everybody, however, that is through the UN and its members. Our Constitution and Bill of Rights only includes Citizens and those who came here through a visa and have maintained that visa. Our Constitution does not provide rights to any ‘Illegal Immigrants’. Sorry, that you just don’t get it. Again your own ignorance of obfuscating the difference between ‘legal’ and ‘illegal’ is just that, your own ignorance.
    Immigrants do not have all the same rights as Citizens. There are many Articles and Amendments they are not entitled to receive until they have become naturalized.
    Here is a question for you Evelyn, have you actually read the UN Constitution and its Bill of Rights?? How about the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights?? If you have, then you would know that your statements are not correct.

  • Avatar
    Texano78704
    September 4, 2008 at 12:06 pm

    Since when in the history of the United States has ICE or homeland security set up check points inside our country (especially during a disaster) to look for illegals.
    I could not give an exact date as to when they started, but they have been doing this for decades now. Many times have I gone through the border patrol checkpoint on I-10 headed east from El Paso,Texas.

  • Avatar
    Liquidmicro
    September 4, 2008 at 7:08 pm

    I don’t think you thoroughly read your own article link Evelyn. It states exactly what I have said. The only Rights “Illegal Immigrants” have in the USA are those granted to them by the UN Constitution (the International Human Rights Laws). I suggest you re-read and comprehend your own article.
    http://hrw.org/english/docs/2004/10/01/usdom10493.htm
    Under Draconian Deportations:
    “Despite their drastic nature, deportations can occur after proceedings in which immigrants have no lawyer to help them; because deportation is considered a civil matter, it does not trigger the Fourth Amendment right to counsel.”
    Your whole article talks about International Human Rights Laws, not the US Constitution or Bill of Rights.

  • Avatar
    Evelyn
    September 5, 2008 at 8:02 am

    Americans DO not and WILL not put up with anarchists and agents of the Mexican government TELLING US how to run OUR OWN COUNTRY!!!!!
    E
    LOL!
    You must be Talking about yourself, coming from a border town you must be an anarchists and agents of the Mexican government?
    I think you are not stupid enough to think I am, aren’t you?

  • Avatar
    Evelyn
    September 5, 2008 at 8:49 am

    Liquid said
    Here is a question for you Evelyn, have you actually read the UN Constitution and its Bill of Rights?? How about the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights?? If you have, then you would know that your statements are not correct.
    E
    How silly of you to state that it is MY claim that immigrants have the same rights citizens do. I do not. The experts do!
    I should have included the link for both of those Items as well, it would do you some good to read them, but in your case I dont think it would change your mind, you are blinded by hate. That makes you incapable of seeing the TRUTH!
    http://apfte.net/Pages/Constitution/Bill%20Of%20Rights.htm
    http://apfte.net/Pages/Constitution/US%20Constitution.htm
    One more time. Here is another claim by the experts that state immigrants enjoy the same rights we do except the right to vote and the right to hold public office.
    I made a comment taking exception to another author’s claim that illegal immigrants have no rights. I suggested that it is important to distinguish between constitutional rights and privileges reserved to citizens. The responses to my comment indicate that a great many people do not know what their constitutionally protected rights are.
    The following comes from http://www.slate.com/id/1008367/
    “……..the Bill of Rights applies to everyone, even illegal immigrants. So an immigrant, legal or illegal, prosecuted under the criminal code has the right to due process, a speedy and public trial, and other rights protected by the Fifth and Sixth Amendments. This fact sheet from the National Lawyers Guild outlines a host of rights afforded to immigrants and citizens alike.
    (There are a few rights reserved for citizens. Among them are the right to vote, the right to hold most federal jobs, and the right to run for political office.)”
    The following is taken from National Lawyers Guild website:
    http://www.nlg.org/resources/kyr/kyr_english.htm
    I. What rights do I have?
    Whether or not you’re a citizen, you have these constitutional rights:
    The Right to Remain Silent. The Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution gives every person the right not to answer questions asked by a police officer or government agent.
    The Right to be Free from “Unreasonable Searches and Seizures”. The Fourth Amendment is supposed to protect your privacy. Without a warrant, police or government agents may not search your home or office without your consent, and you have the right to refuse to let them in. They can enter and search without a warrant in an emergency. New laws have expanded the government’s authority to conduct surveillance. It is possible that your e-mail, cell and other telephone calls, and conversations in your home, office, car or meeting place are being monitored without your knowledge.
    The Right to Advocate for Change. The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution protects the rights of groups and individuals who advocate changes in laws, government practices, and even the form of government.
    The legal protections afforded by the constitution do not apply to simple deportation proceedings.
    Once again from http://www.slate.com/id/1008367/
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~
    I know you will say the Lawyers Guild is just some guys openion like you do for every study or graph I present as credable proof on different issues so I will not debate this issue with you again.
    You are most certainly entitled to show your ignorance by stating that professionals who conduct studies in their field of expertise and display their findings as proof on certain issues are just “some guy’s openion.” LOL!

  • Avatar
    Evelyn
    September 5, 2008 at 10:06 am

    Michaela said:
    Rick said:
    “It’s people like you who make me want to report the illegals working at my business and you know what–first thing tomorrow I’m going to report them–so thanks for the motivation.”
    E
    HA! HA! HA! It’s people like you and Rick who embrace collective ideology that make me first vomit and then like millions of Americans reject your behavior by coming here and being active in community to expose You.
    I also put my money where my mouth is by donating to ACLU to defend your victims.
    Those ignorant enough to embrace your views of hate need a wake up call so thanks for the motivation.”
    What do you and Rick do besides Spew Lies and Hate?
    This is what your bizarre demands “of starving people out of this country”and irrational rantings are getting you – the anger of the American people and a determined resolve to end this crisis of racial prejudice in our country once and for all.
    Americans DO not and WILL not put up with anarchists and agents of the radical right wing terrorists TELLING US how to run OUR OWN COUNTRY!!!!!
    Americans are damn good at making their OWN decisions and your side is helping gear up the anger and knowledge needed to conquer your hate and racism toward us.
    We will not tolerate American hating, white hating racists who have the unmitigated audacity to tell US how to rule our own country!!! Got It! If not I can order more where this came from!!!
    I….REST MY CASE!!!

  • Avatar
    Liquidmicro
    September 5, 2008 at 6:57 pm

    Yet, again, you try to obfuscate your intention.
    E says:
    “One more time. Here is another claim by the experts that state immigrants enjoy the same rights we do except the right to vote and the right to hold public office.”
    We are not discussing Immigrants, we are discussing “Illegal Immigrants”.
    As I previously stated, legal immigrants, LPR and GC holders have rights here, they came here and are on a visa and have maintained that visa. As I pointed out earlier:
    “Immigrants do not have all the same rights as Citizens. There are many Articles and Amendments they are not entitled to receive until they have become naturalized.”
    Now, “Illegal Immigrants” are protected by the UN Constitution and Bill of Rights, Not the US Constitution and Bill of Rights.
    Do I really need to go through your slate link and show you that their claim to the 5th and 6th amendment of our Constitution is actually from the UN Constitution. Look it up, the UN Constitution says the same thing.
    By the way, you forgot to continue the paragraph where in it states exactly what I posted earlier, “But immigration proceedings are matters of administrative law, not criminal law. (As a result, the consequence of violating your immigration status is not jail but deportation.) And Congress has nearly full authority to regulate immigration without interference from the courts. Because immigration is considered a matter of national security and foreign policy, the Supreme Court has long held that immigration law is largely immune from judicial review. Congress can make rules for immigrants that would be unacceptable if applied to citizens.”
    Your next link provided the answer to you already, you even printed it, but I’m sure you didn’t comprehend it. “The legal protections afforded by the constitution do not apply to simple deportation proceedings.”
    I can go on, but I’m sure you would not get it with your lack of comprehension skills and spelling. But, like you like to say, I don’t do it for your benefit, I do it to point out the TRUTH, however, I do enjoy pointing out your ignorance.

  • Avatar
    Michaela
    September 7, 2008 at 1:10 pm

    E
    LOL!
    You must be Talking about yourself, coming from a border town you must be an anarchists and agents of the Mexican government?
    I think you are not stupid enough to think I am, aren’t you?
    I don’t know if you are or not Evelyn. Are you? A lot of your posts are very radical so it makes one wonder……?

  • Avatar
    Evelyn
    September 7, 2008 at 1:23 pm

    Liquidmicro :
    Yet, again, you try to obfuscate your intention.
    E says:
    “One more time. Here is another claim by the experts that state immigrants enjoy the same rights we do except the right to vote and the right to hold public office.”
    We are not discussing Immigrants, we are discussing “Illegal Immigrants”.
    E
    Hardliners Try to White-Wash Their Own Immigrant Pasts by Redefining ‘Immigration’
    By Joshua Holland, AlterNet. Posted June 2, 2008.
    Redefining the word “immigrant” is an attempt to differentiate between those they hate and their own grandparents.
    I’ve encountered a new argument in my travels, both in the comments here on AlterNet and around the internet. It’s perhaps best captured by the motto of the “Illegal Invasion News” blog: “IT’S NOT ‘IMMIGRATION’ AND THEY’RE NOT ‘IMMIGRANTS.'” (This claim is often articulated in that ALL CAPS style so popular with small children and lunatics who are off their meds.)
    The word “immigrant” has nothing at all to do with legal status. It means, simply, to move from one place to another for the purpose of settling down. Papers, no papers — it’s all irrelevant to the act of migrating.
    The claim can be dispatched easily enough with a little elementary etymology. The word “migration” first appears in the English language in reference to humans in 1611, some 37 years before the modern nation state, with its discrete borders, came into existence. The Latin root of the verb “to immigrate,” immigrare, predates that by more than a thousand years. Human migration is a phenomenon that dates back to before homo sapiens even existed — pre-modern humans migrated wily-nilly. So, clearly, the word “immigrant” has nothing whatsoever to do with one’s paperwork being in order; its roots predate the existence of contemporary legal systems.
    An interesting question is why they bother making the argument at all? Surely, it’s not relevant to the larger issue.
    Or so it seems. But it is relevant, in that it is a response to a major problem for real immigration hardliners: the United States is, indisputably, a nation of immigrants and our heterogeneity, contra the howls of many a right-winger, is a big part of what makes America what it is. You can gorge on Bratwursts in Michigan, drink way too much vodka and mingle with decked-out Russian gliteratti in Brighton Beach, still read local Deutsche Zeitungen in small towns in Minnesota, eat Ethiopian food with your hands in L.A., sing weepy Irish ballads over your Guinness in dozens of Boston bars, wander the docks as the Vietnamese fishermen come in for a Texas evening and get the best roast pork in Little Havana. And thank god for all of that — I wouldn’t have it any other way.
    But consider how awkward that simple reality is for a nice Irish boy like Bill O’Reilly, or someone like Tom Tancredo, whose grandparents — all four of them — immigrated to the U.S. from Italy in the first decades of the 20th century. There are a lot of immigration restrictionists of European descent — people with names like O’Malley, Kowolski or Schmitt — who are incensed about the current generation of immigrants to America, and to avoid charges of hypocrisy — or simple cognitive dissonance — they have an almost obsessive need to distinguish between their forebearers — “good immigrants” every one — and these scoundrels coming here today.
    Usually, they’re content to hang onto the fact that their great-grandparents immigrated legally, but I guess some need to go a step further and deny that those who bypass the system are immigrants at all.
    Even the former distinction is weak. Consider the similarities between, say, the wave of European immigration that arrived in the 1880s and 1890s and those who have come over the past decade, and they dwarf the differences. Descendants of the huge waves of European immigration in the 19th and early 20th centuries make much of the fact that their great grandparents came here “legally,” but they rest their case on a technicality: the only reason they were legal was that there was no law in effect restricting European immigration until the 1920s. In fact, European immigrants didn’t even need to identify themselves to get in — the derogatory word for Italians, “WOP,” was an acronym stamped on entry documents that meant the person was arriving “With Out Papers.”
    read more
    http://www.alternet.org/immigration/85551/?page=entire#comments
    You are entitled and have every right to show YOUR ignorance on the matter as to who is entitled to the rights our Constitution affords to every person within our borders.
    I know you will say the Lawyers Guild is just some guys openion like you do for every study or graph I present as credable proof on different issues so I will not debate this issue with you again.
    I will however debate you on the word immigrant. How can I call them an Ill eagle like you do? They are not sick birds!

  • Avatar
    Michaela
    September 7, 2008 at 1:27 pm

    Evelyn, I see you liked my original post so much that you had to use it for your own…with a few changes of course that fit YOUR radical left-wing agenda.
    E
    Americans DO not and WILL not put up with anarchists and agents of the radical right wing terrorists TELLING US how to run OUR OWN COUNTRY!!!!!
    Americans are damn good at making their OWN decisions and your side is helping gear up the anger and knowledge needed to conquer your hate and racism toward us.
    We will not tolerate American hating, white hating racists who have the unmitigated audacity to tell US how to rule our own country!!! Got It! If not I can order more where this came from!!!
    I….REST MY CASE!!!
    Here is my ORIGINAL POST that you have desecrated to fit your own racist agenda Evelyn!
    Michaela
    I rest my case Evelyn. This is what your bizarre demands and irrational rantings are getting you – the anger of the American people and a determined resolve to end this crisis of illegal immigration into our country once and for all. Americans DO not and WILL not put up with anarchists and agents of the Mexican government TELLING US how to run OUR OWN COUNTRY!!!!!
    Americans are damn good at making their OWN demands and your side is helping gear up the anger and knowledge needed to conquer your hate and racism toward us. We will not tolerate American hating, white hating racists who have the unmitigated audacity to tell US how to rule our own country!!!

  • Avatar
    Liquidmicro
    September 7, 2008 at 7:29 pm

    There’s your poor spelling again, it is “ILLEGAL” not your version of “ILL EAGLE” run spell check or teach your nephew correct English.
    Your intellectual dishonesty in the obfuscation of ‘legal immigrants’ vs ‘illegal immigrants’ does nothing to further your cause. In fact, those that have came here the ‘legal’ way take great animosity towards you and your ideology. I give you Ariella Z and your own comment to her.
    “Ariella Z said
    I am Mexican, my husband IS Mexican and we had to fight thru 7 years of red tape to become legal citizens of the United states.
    Because I do not believe it is OK to break the law no matter how good the reason for doing so is, and the illegals that have come here should have to go back and do things teh right way does that make me a racist? Am I traitor to my own people? Am I to be accused of racism? Because if I was white the awnser would be yes… But because I am brown what does that make me… Please ket me know because depending on what color does the posting automatically categorizes if they are a racist.. so I would like an honest opinion as to what I am?
    Thank you very much, I am however very curious to see what Evelyn and marisa could offer up to my dilema..makes me wonder
    E
    Discriminatory behavior like Ignorance has no color barriers.
    The fact that you and your husband were fortunate enough to qualify to fix your immigration situation is a good thing and I congratulate you on becoming a citizen.
    It is unfortunate that you would use your good fortune as example to other migrants coming from certain Countries like Mexico.
    The U.S. has no line like the one you were fortunate to wait in unless like you they have An American citizen child over the age of 21 like you.
    Unless you can show a line for ordinary Mexicans like the one you were fortunate enough to wait in, then I will say it is due your ignorance in matters of immigration that you would suggest they get into a line that for them doesent exist.”
    You call her ignorant for immigrating the correct way?? Obviously there is a correct way/line to migrate here from Mexico, she and her husband did it.
    Now I give you your own IPC information:
    “Political Refugees, Yes. But Economic Refugees, No.: Persons who can prove a “well-founded fear of persecution” may in some cases be granted political asylum or refugee status. However, the burden of proof is high and the process is rigorous. They must prove that any harm that came to them is based on “race, religion, membership in a particular social group, political opinion, or national origin.” Even if they can meet this requirement, they are subject to numerical limits before they may get their residency, typically after a substantial waiting period. An immigrant does not qualify as a refugee because of poverty or difficult economic conditions in their home country.”
    Most of all “Illegal Immigrants” are of the Economic Refugee type, for which they do not qualify as a refugee because of poverty or difficult economic conditions in their home country.
    Now you will claim the USA caused it and therefor they have the ‘Right’ to come here seeking better lives. The problem with that is that most had jobs in their home countries, they were surviving just fine. As for trade agreements, we all agree they should be made more fair to other countries, however even your messiah doesn’t think NAFTA is worth re-negotiating. You fail to place any blame on the Governments of those people and countries, after all, they too signed the agreements. Mexico is about to lose its oil capabilities. “The government has neglected the public company for 20 years, siphoning off its profits for bureaucrats’ salaries and patronage projects. Now production is dropping, reserves are dwindling, and Pemex lacks the technology to go after undersea oil, the administration says.” So much for being for its own people. You need to place blame were blame is due, on all involved, on both sides of the border, until you can honestly due that, you are nothing more than Chicken Little.

  • Avatar
    Evelyn
    September 7, 2008 at 10:04 pm

    Michaela
    We already debated the issue.
    I am not going to debate the fact that I often turn your rants against you.
    If you are accusing me of doing it, I accept I am guilty. Now, what is your point?

  • Avatar
    Evelyn
    September 7, 2008 at 10:19 pm

    liquid said
    You call her ignorant for immigrating the correct way?? Obviously there is a correct way/line to migrate here from Mexico, she and her husband did it.
    E
    NO! I call her ignorant because obviously she has a son or daughter over the age of 21 that petitioned USCIS for her and her husdband to come.
    Not very many immigrants HAVE a son or daughter who is here legally or a citizen obviously in this case (it only took her 7 years to fix her immigration statue) to come. It takes much longer if your son or daughter is a legal immigrant and not a citizen.
    ~~~~~~~~~
    OH YES I DO BLAME THE LEADERS OF THOSE COUNTRIES HERE LOOK HERE!
    http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2006/07/341919.shtml
    http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2006/07/342179.shtml

  • Avatar
    Liquidmicro
    September 8, 2008 at 2:16 pm

    Evelyn says:
    “NO! I call her ignorant because obviously she has a son or daughter over the age of 21 that petitioned USCIS for her and her husdband to come.”
    I think you are making assumptions here, although she may have, yet never said. There are legal ways to obtain visas, she may have come in on a TN visa and adjusted status, or a H-2B visa. To call someone ignorant based on your ‘assumption’ does nothing but show your own ignorance.

  • Avatar
    Evelyn
    September 8, 2008 at 8:05 pm

    liquid said
    I think you are making assumptions here, although she may have, yet never said. There are legal ways to obtain visas, she may have come in on a TN visa and adjusted status, or a H-2B visa. To call someone ignorant based on your ‘assumption’ does nothing but show your own ignorance.
    E
    Ariella Z said
    I am Mexican, my husband IS Mexican and we had to fight thru 7 years of red tape to become
    LEGAL CITIZENS
    of the United states.
    ~~
    Legal citizens cannot become such without first obtaining a green card aka(legal residence) card.
    The only option for a couple from Mexico to fix their ‘legal residence’ card is if they have a legal residence son or daughter or an American citizen son or daughter.
    Like I said, stick to trees! Ignoramus.

  • Avatar
    Evelyn
    September 8, 2008 at 10:08 pm

    BTW TN visas have never been available to Mexicans, only Hondurans and Salvadorans and they are no longer available. If someone already has one it can be renewed.

  • Avatar
    Liquidmicro
    September 8, 2008 at 11:21 pm

    Ignoramus?? I see you are making assumptions again. They could have come here on any number of visas, TN, H-2B, H-2A, L-1, etc., while here, they could have obtained a change in status and received their LPR and then there GC. Your feeble mind doesn’t go far beyond what your simple thought is. I have gone through this entire process with my wife just recently, she is now a naturalized citizen of the USA, and it only took 3 years.

  • Avatar
    Liquidmicro
    September 9, 2008 at 2:51 pm

    Evelyn :
    BTW TN visas have never been available to Mexicans, only Hondurans and Salvadorans and they are no longer available. If someone already has one it can be renewed.
    Sorry, you are wrong as usual. You are talking TPS (Temporary Protected Status) for those from Honduras and Nicaragua.
    http://www.visapro.com/US-INS-Forms/INS-Form-I-821-A.asp
    The TN Visa is for the Mexican and Canadian NAFTA Professional Worker.
    http://travel.state.gov/visa/temp/types/types_1274.html
    With your intelligence (sarcasm), you should have already known this, especially with all of your presumptive remarks.

  • Avatar
    Evelyn
    September 9, 2008 at 5:00 pm

    iquidmicro
    Ignoramus?? I see you are making assumptions again. They could have come here on any number of visas, TN, H-2B, H-2A, L-1, etc., while here, they could have obtained a change in status and received their LPR and then there GC. Your feeble mind doesn’t go far beyond what your simple thought is. I have gone through this entire process with my wife just recently, she is now a naturalized citizen of the USA, and it only took 3 years.
    E
    If you went thru this process with your wife, then you would know NONE of the visas you suggest would qualify anyone for citizenship.
    The first thing required is a green card aka permanent residence card!
    Once again Ariella Z said
    I am Mexican, my husband IS Mexican and we had to fight thru 7 years of red tape to become citizen.
    The following process is what they went through to become first a green card holder, then a citizen, because other than being born here that is the only path for anyone to become a citizen.
    This is from USCIS.
    USCIS is a government agency comprised of 15,000 federal employees and contractors working in approximately 250 Headquarters and field offices around the world.
    We are responsible for the administration of immigration and naturalization adjudication functions and establishing immigration services policies and priorities
    Citizenship
    Citizenship is one of the most coveted gifts that the U.S. government can bestow, and the most important immigration benefit that USCIS can grant.
    Most people become U.S. citizens in one of two ways:
    By birth, either within the territory of the United States or to U.S. citizen parents, or
    By Naturalization.
    ~~~~~~
    Ins.
    General Naturalization Requirements
    Age
    Applicants must be at least 18 years old.
    Refer to the section, Naturalized Citizen’s Children under Waivers, Exceptions, and Special Cases for information on applicants who are less than 18 years old.
    Residency
    An applicant must have been lawfully admitted to the United States for permanent residence. Lawfully admitted for permanent residence means having been legally accorded the privilege of residing permanently in the United States as an immigrant in accordance with the immigration laws. Individuals who have been lawfully admitted as permanent residents will be asked to produce an I-551, Alien Registration Receipt Card, as proof of their status.
    ~~~~~~
    Lawful Permanent Residence (“Green Card”)
    This section of the USCIS Website provides you with information and directions necessary to apply for lawful permanent residence (LPR), or “green cards”.
    You will have the opportunity to access information regarding ways to get a “green card”. A “green card” gives you official immigration status (Lawful Permanent Residency) in the United states.
    Eligibility
    In order for a relative to sponsor you to immigrate to the United States and receive permanent residency, they must meet the following criteria:
    They must be a citizen or lawful permanent resident of the U.S. and be able to provide documentation providing that status.
    The relatives which may be sponsored as an immigrant vary depending on whether the sponsor is a U.S. Citizen or a lawful permanent resident.
    If the sponsor is a U.S. Citizen, they may petition for the following foreign national relatives to immigrate to the U.S:
    Husband or wife
    Unmarried child under 21 years of age
    Unmarried son or daughter over 21
    Married son or daughter of any age
    Parent, if the sponsor is at least 21 years old.
    If the sponsor is a lawful permanent resident, they may petition for the following foreign national relatives to immigrate to the U.S.:
    Husband or wife, or
    Unmarried son or daughter of any age.
    Once USCIS receives your visa petition (Form I-130, Petition for Alien Relative), it will be approved or denied. USCIS notifies the person who filed the visa petition of the petition was approved. USCIS will then send the approved visa petition to the Department of State’s National Visa Center, where it will remain until an immigrant visa number is available. The Center will notify the foreign national when the visa petition is received and again when an immigrant visa number is available. You do not need to contact the National Visa Center, unless you change your address or there is a change in your personal situation, or that of your sponsor, that may affect eligibility for an immigrant visa, such as reaching age 21, marriage, divorce, or death of a spouse.
    http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis
    Now, who has a feeble mind?

  • Avatar
    Liquidmicro
    September 9, 2008 at 10:38 pm

    As usual, Evelyn, your ignorance puts you in places of higher idiocy, here’s your diploma, congratulations.
    http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.5af9bb95919f35e66f614176543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=8e96194d3e88d010VgnVCM10000048f3d6a1RCRD&vgnextchannel=28819c7755cb9010VgnVCM10000045f3d6a1____
    Who May Apply to Change to a New Nonimmigrant Status?
    In general, you may apply to change your nonimmigrant status if you were lawfully admitted into the United States with a nonimmigrant visa, your nonimmigrant status remains valid, and you have not committed any crimes that would make you ineligible.
    You may not apply to change your nonimmigrant status if you were admitted to the United States in the following visa categories:
    (VWPP) – Visa Waiver Pilot Program (or the Guam Visa Waiver Program)
    D – As a crewman
    C – As an alien in transit or in transit without a visa
    K РAs a fianc̩(e) or spouse of a U.S. citizen or dependent of a fianc̩(e) or spouse
    S – As an informant (and accompanying family) on terrorism or organized crime.
    Sorry, but I don’t see the H, L, or TN category as being denied change of status. But then I don’t see you as to intelligent either.
    Here it is in more basic understanding for you along with the correct form to fill out.
    http://www.foreignborn.com/visas_imm/other_visas/5how_to_change_status.htm
    How to Change to a New Nonimmigrant Status
    How Do I Apply?
    For the following categories of nonimmigrants, your employer should carefully read and file an USCIS Form I-129 (Petition for Nonimmigrant Worker) and any required supporting documentation:
    E – International Traders and Investors
    H – Temporary Workers
    L – Intracompany Transferees
    O – Aliens of Extraordinary Ability
    P – Entertainers and Athletes
    Q – Participants in International Exchange Programs
    R – Religious Workers
    TN – Canadians and Mexicans Under NAFTA

  • Avatar
    Liquidmicro
    September 10, 2008 at 10:45 am

    Here is the simple form of your argument Evelyn, my answers will be in ().
    E
    NO! I call her ignorant because obviously she has a son or daughter over the age of 21 that petitioned USCIS for her and her husband to come.
    (Nothing is ‘OBVIOUS’ about what Ariella said other than the fact that she is now an American Citizen after going through 7 years of ‘red tape’. She may have come by way of worker visa, for which you have denied, or she may have been petitioned by an adult child, your version, and given an IR visa “Immediate Relatives of U.S. Citizens”.)
    The only option for a couple from Mexico to fix their ‘legal residence’ card is if they have a legal residence son or daughter or an American citizen son or daughter.
    (There are many options for someone from Mexico to come here legally and change there status to LPR/GC Holder and on to naturalized citizen. I listed the visas they may have come in on, the H, L, or TN. They didn’t have to ‘fix’ there status, Ariella doesn’t say they had to ‘fix’ their status, it must be one of your assumptions again.)
    BTW TN visas have never been available to Mexicans, only Hondurans and Salvadorans and they are no longer available. If someone already has one it can be renewed.
    (I have already shown TN visas are for Mexicans and Canadian NAFTA professional workers. Your statement of being for Hondurans and Salvadorans isn’t even close, you are talking the TPS, which isn’t even a visa, it just grants them temporary protected status due to nationality and hurricane relief from their countries.)
    If you went thru this process with your wife, then you would know NONE of the visas you suggest would qualify anyone for citizenship.
    (‘NONE’ of the visas qualify anyone for citizenship?? I’m pretty sure I debunked your theory and shown that in fact Ariella and her husband were eligible for change of status if they came in on the H, L, or TN visas, change of status could have granted them the LPR/GC and then on to Naturalized Citizen. So in fact in order to be qualified for ‘Citizenship’ one must first obtain a visa which allows for ‘Change of Status’. Even if petitioned by a family member, as you are suggesting, a visa is required to lawfully enter the USA.
    http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.5af9bb95919f35e66f614176543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=0775667706f7d010VgnVCM10000048f3d6a1RCRD
    Immigration through a Family Member
    1.
    The USCIS must approve an immigrant visa petition, I-130 Petition for Alien Relative, for you. This petition is filed by your relative (sponsor) and must be accompanied by proof of your relationship to the requesting relative.
    2.
    The Deparment of State must determine if an immigrant visa number is immediately available to you, the foreign national, even if you are already in the United States. When an immigrant visa number is available, it means you can apply to have one of the immigrant visa numbers assigned to you. You can check the status of a visa number in the Department of State’s Visa Bulletin.
    3.
    If you are already in the United States, you may apply to change your status to that of a lawful permanent resident after a visa number becomes available to you. This is one way you can apply to secure an immigrant visa number. If you are outside the United States when an immigrant visa number becomes available, you must then go to the U.S. consulate servicing the area in which you reside to complete your processing. This is the other way to secure an immigrant visa number.
    That first line is the doozy, see where it says “immigrant visa petition, I-130 Petition for Alien Relative”.)
    The first thing required is a green card aka permanent residence card!
    (Actually the first thing required is a ‘VISA’, not LPR/GC to become a Naturalized Citizen. The LPR/GC is second in the line to the visa on the path to becoming a Naturalized Citizen.)
    You should be thankful to me for helping you understand the correct process that allows others to come to this country and participate in our way of life. You shouldn’t denigrate those that have done it the right way and take great pride in that. There is a process she and her husband followed, she is very proud of that fact and can not understand why others can’t also do as they have done. Again, I congratulate you Ariella on becoming an American Citizen, you truly are the role model others should be looking at.

  • Avatar
    Evelyn
    September 10, 2008 at 11:37 am

    I fill those forms out all the time. Many immigrants dont have the money to hire a layer.
    I help them out from my home but mostly at the local community center I have been a volunteer at sence 93 when I first moved here.
    That is why I know so much about Immigration laws.
    Anybody can petition USCIS for anything. It doesent mean they will be accepted!
    To qualify for a TN visa you have to be ready to show one million dollars that are intended to open a new business here in the U.S. or expand an existing business from a foreign country.
    The only path to citizenship if you are from a foreign country is by first becoming a green card holder, then waiting 3 years if your spouse is an American citizen, or 5 years if not, to take the test.
    The easiest way for you to find out is to call the places in your community that help immigrants become citizens. They will tell you the same thing I have.

  • Avatar
    Liquidmicro
    September 10, 2008 at 9:28 pm

    You fill the forms out all the time?? Then you should know what the TN visa is, because it ISN’T what you state: “To qualify for a TN visa you have to be ready to show one million dollars that are intended to open a new business here in the U.S. or expand an existing business from a foreign country.”
    Here is the definition of the TN visa: TN (Trade NAFTA) status is a special non-immigration status unique to citizens of the United States, Canada and Mexico. TN status was created by virtue of the 1994 North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA). It allows American, Canadian and Mexican citizens the opportunity to work in the United States or Canada under a somewhat limited set of occupations. It bears a similarity, in some ways, to the H-1B visa, but also has many unique features. Within the TN set of occupations, an American, Canadian or Mexican can work for up to a year at a time (this is in the process of being extended to three years). However, the TN status may be renewed indefinitely in one-year increments, although it is not a ‘permanent’ visa and if US immigration officials suspect it is being used as a de facto substitute for a green card, they may elect to deny further renewals. The set of occupations permitted to petition for TN status is also quite a bit more limited than for the H-1B visa.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TN_status
    What your ignorant statement shows is that you are trying to BS everybody here in showing you know anything.
    You are confusing the TN visa with the EB-5 Visa, which states: The EB-5 Visa for Immigrant Investors is a United States visa created by the Immigration Act of 1990. This visa provides a method of obtaining a green card for foreign nationals who invest money in the United States. To obtain the visa, individuals must invest at least $1,000,000 USD, creating at least 10 jobs [1]. By investing in certain regional centers with high unemployment rates, the required investment amount is only $500,000. The Immigrant Investor Pilot Program was created by Section 610 of Public Law 102-395 on October 6, 1992. This was in accordance to a Congressional mandate aimed at stimulating economic activity and job growth, while allowing eligible aliens the opportunity to become lawful permanent residents. This “Pilot Program” required only $500,000 of investment in exchange for permanent resident status. The investment could only be received by a economic unit defined as a Regional Center. A Regional Center is defined by any economic unit, public or private, engaged in the promotion of economic growth, improved regional productivity, job creation and increased domestic capital investment. Prior law required the investment in the Regional Center to generate an increase in export sales, however statutory amendments in 2000 and 2002 no longer require this increase. The individual receiving the visa is not required to actively manage the business invested in. For investors who wish to invest in a new or existing business, have an active role in the management of the operation, and have at least one million US dollars to invest, then the traditional EB-5 visa is the best option. But for those who would prefer a passive role in the management of their investment, do not wish to be involved in the creation of the 10 U.S. full time jobs, and would rather limit their investment to $500,000 USD, then the Regional Center, or EB-5 Pilot Program is the better immigration option.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EB-5_visa
    Doesn’t seem you know as much as you think you know now does it.
    The best thing anybody can do is to actually read the paperwork they are filling out, all the instructions and required information is on them, never take someones word on something or have them help you fill anything out, unless they are a Lawyer, because if you are denied at least with a lawyer you may have some recourse, with someone such as Evelyn, you just screwed yourself and will become a visa overstay and be subject to immediate deportation.

  • Avatar
    Ariella Z.
    September 10, 2008 at 11:17 pm

    I find it very interesting Evelyn can talk about me and ASSUME things she thinks she knows BUT DOES NOT. WE DID NOT HAVE A CHILD UNTILL 2 years ago. I was NOT going to put a child through coming and going from the US for 7 years. Also I was not going to have an ANCHOR baby.
    AND FYI WE LIVED HERE ON VISAS … since you are strung way too tight and trying to talk to you is like putting a knife in a 1 year old hands and guiding them through brain surgery.
    Try standing up and actually replying to someone when they ask you a DIRECT QUESTION instead of pulling their posts and ranting about them behind their backs like a spoiled little infant!

  • Avatar
    Evelyn
    September 11, 2008 at 8:08 pm

    Tell me Ariella, how did you fix your resident card? Who petitioned the gov. for you?

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    Liquidmicro
    September 11, 2008 at 9:33 pm

    My god Evelyn, I have explained to you the entire process for entry and change of status from a worker visa to a LPR/GC. You can’t ‘fix’ a LPR/GC. USCIS approves of the change of status and you are granted the LPR/GC.
    Here is but one more way Ariella may have come, look to the ‘Immigration through Employment’ on the USCIS web site.
    http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.5af9bb95919f35e66f614176543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=84096138f898d010VgnVCM10000048f3d6a1RCRD&vgnextchannel=4f719c7755cb9010VgnVCM10000045f3d6a1RCRD

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    Evelyn
    September 11, 2008 at 10:05 pm

    USCIS INFOPASS“““““““““““““““““““““““““
    TN Professional Visas and E Visas Under NAFTA
    The TN visa is for Canadian and Mexican professionals to work in the U.S. The E visas are for treaty traders, investors, intra company transferees and professionals to work in the US.
    Who establish a new commercial enterprise by:
    creating an original business;
    purchasing an existing business and simultaneously or subsequently restructuring or reorganizing the business such that a new commercial enterprise results; or
    expanding an existing business by 140 percent of the pre-investment number of jobs or net worth, or retaining all existing jobs in a troubled business that has lost 20 percent of its net worth over the past 12 to 24 months; and
    Who have invested — or who are actively in the process of investing — in a new commercial enterprise:
    at least $1,000,000, or
    at least $500,000 where the investment is being made in a “targeted employment area,” which is an area that has experienced unemployment of at least 150 per cent of the national average rate or a rural area as designated by OMB; and
    ~~~~
    It is my understanding that these visas are extended to a person seeking to expand an existing foreign business or begin a new one in the U.S.
    The wording is vague, so it looks as if you might also be right liquid.
    At the community center where I fill out many forms for Immigrants, we dont get anyone wanting to immigrate under TN status.
    I am sure those people can easily afford the fees a layer charges! LOL!
    However, this isn’t about TN visas, it is about how difficult it is to come here legally and how hard it is to become an American citizen.
    Why this woman Arella, harbors so much hate for those like her from Mexico is a mystery.
    It is hard to imagine how a person like her would have the good fortune to be able to come here legally without deserving it.
    Anyone more caring and compassionate to the plight of those like her would have been more deserving of becoming an American.
    Americans are known for being good people.
    We already have enough people here who hate and want to exclude others for different reasons.
    I cant wait for her to explain to me how she and her husband both got a green card.
    I dont think she will. She is going to refocus instead of discuss how she got a green card.
    I guess she is too dumb to realize that if I wouldent have pulled this subject up it would have been left unanswered, way behind.
    That is what you wanted wasent it Arella? An Answer!

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    Evelyn
    September 11, 2008 at 10:57 pm

    liquid said
    The best thing anybody can do is to actually read the paperwork they are filling out, all the instructions and required information is on them, never take someones word on something or have them help you fill anything out, unless they are a Lawyer, because if you are denied at least with a lawyer you may have some recourse, with someone such as Evelyn, you just screwed yourself and will become a visa overstay and be subject to immediate deportation.
    E
    One doesent need a layer to fill out many documents that USCIS asks petitioners and employers for.
    Layers cannot represent anyone at the interview for the immigrant. All they can do is fill out the paperwork. So can anyone who knows how to navigate USCIS
    Layers can however suggest how to handle the harder cases. For someone with a simple case, the biggest problem is not knowing English and how to navigate USCIS.
    Catholic Charities, community centers, and many organizations help immigrants fill out different forms. Like I stated, if the person can afford a layer it is better.
    Instead of focusing all your free time hating people, you should work at one of these centers. You would feel better about yourself and others.
    Being a productive citizen is important if one wants to succeed in all aspects of life.
    That was something I learned from my grandmother. She always kept busy and involved in community matters.

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    Michaela
    September 15, 2008 at 3:30 pm

    E
    Instead of focusing all your free time hating people, you should work at one of these centers. You would feel better about yourself and others.
    Well you seem to be able to be busy PLUS do a lot of hating…your message of hate, racism, xenophobia, blah, blah, blah, directed at Americans has worn very thin Ms. Hypocrite.

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    Evelyn
    September 16, 2008 at 10:00 pm

    ichaela said:
    E
    Instead of focusing all your free time hating people, you should work at one of these centers. You would feel better about yourself and others.
    Well you seem to be able to be busy PLUS do a lot of hating…your message of hate, racism, xenophobia, blah, blah, blah, directed at Americans has worn very thin Ms. Hypocrite.
    E
    Here you are again obsessed with discussing what you think you know about me instead of discussing the issues. Very boring.
    I have told you before I dont care what you think of me. I dont expect you to like me. How can you, I dont let you lie. Every time you try to lie I show proof of the truth. That must be maddening for people like you who never tell truth.

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    LEIGHTON SMITH
    October 13, 2008 at 6:16 pm

    We are allowing the government to frame the immigration problem for us. We must consider that in some cases, such as here, the government is not acting in our own individual best interest.
    Thus, the term “illegal” associated with “alien” or “immigrant” is one of the government’s invention.
    What we as individuals must do is look at the problem from our own perspective. It is my understanding that this has not been done very often and has not been heralded very effectively.
    The reality is that foreign nationals are in every recognized nation worldwide, creating a nearly fully integrated polyglot. To somehow require all these people to get their “papers in order” with respect to the local laws of each country is crazy.
    There has to be a better, more accommodating, and global solution. Like a national identity card that is accepted worldwide. This different than a passport and should be a smart card with various data on it relevant to the bearer and the country he or she hails from.
    Take a look at the end-to-end treatment of the immigration problem that has been prepared by Trigon-International, Inc. This is actionable, affordable, and feasible and more aptly it addresses the problem in situ meaning that the fix goes in without having to reset the pieces on the game board.

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