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Guest Voz: Racial Hatred is Alive and Well

By Cecilia Muñoz

Cecilia Muñoz is senior vice president of research, advocacy and legislation for the National Council of La Raza (NCLR). As such, she monitors developments across the country resulting from the enforcement/enactment of federal policies as they relate to the greater Latino community.
In the following piece, Muñoz talks about the racial hatred that has taken root across the country, it’s impact on local Latino communities and NCLR’s attempt to combat it with a new web site titled We Can Stop The Hate.

At the National Council of La Raza (NCLR), we’ve spent a lot of time in the last few weeks highlighting the growing and important role of Latinos in the democratic process. Suddenly, the Latino vote is hot, and the candidates and pundits are paying attention.
But much of the real story has little to do with the presidential election. Take Oregon, for example, where a vibrant community is doing incredible things without national attention.
Latino civic participation is suddenly booming in Oregon, but it’s not spurred by the state’s upcoming presidential primary, which doesn’t occur until May 20, and it isn’t connected to voting — not yet, at least.
My friends at Oregon’s immigrant rights coalition, CAUSA, have described an incredible scene: five legislative hearings held at the Capitol in Salem over the last three weeks, each attracting no less than 1,000 Latinos.
At one hearing, 5,000 showed up on a weekday. Sounds like shades of what my friends there call the “immigrant spring,” the mobilizations of 2006.

The Latino community in Oregon is responding to moves to deny driver’s licenses – now in effect administratively and poised for legislative enactment – to anyone who cannot show legal immigration status.
Until February 4, Oregon was one of eight states where proof of status was not required, but it has become one of many states to cave in on this issue of public safety so that legislators can look tough on immigrants.
The attack on access to driver’s licenses – nationally and in Oregon – has been driven by national talk shows, particularly on the cable networks, featuring hateful and relentless attacks against immigrants.
In Oregon, this occurs regularly on AM talk radio. My organization, NCLR, has launched a campaign and a website to document the extent to which networks put hate groups and extremists on the air and is calling on executives of those networks to remove the hate from their broadcasts.
Our website, We Can Stop The Hate, documents the case and provides a way for people to write to the networks themselves and insist that hate groups be taken off the air.
Hate costs our nation dearly in many ways. There is a cost to Latinos – citizen and noncitizen alike – who are physically attacked by vigilantes and who suffer insults hurled at them by people who presume that they’re all “illegal.”
In Oregon, the cost of hate has just increased, but Latinos and Latino community allies have not lost hope. On the contrary, they have risen up, led by CAUSA, by PCUN (Oregon’s farmworker union), and backed by radio programmers at Spanish-language stations, including PCUN’s own station, Radio Movimiento, KPCN-LP.
PCUN, CAUSA, and allied organizations are gearing up for an unprecedented voter registration drive in 2008. They are responding to hate with a wave of hope and engaging the community in the political process in record numbers.
What’s happening in Oregon is taking place around the country: increased participation.
That is how hope will ultimately triumph over the forces of hate.

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    February 29, 2008 at 1:17 pm

    The NCLR is by all definition a racially driven advocacy organization that promotes the well being of one particular ethnic group. It can be considered the flip side of groups like the Minutemen and NumbersUSA. Only difference is that the latter two organizations are considered racist, whereas the NCLR is not. Any organization dedicated to the goals of a certain ethic group is racist. A NCWP would never be allowed under the double standards that exist in this country. True, racial hate groups can be found within all ethnic groups, but it is only when these groups represent the goals of white people that they are considered racist. Very much double standards to many people.
    As for drivers licenses for non-citizens, it should be a no brainer. If a person is in this country illegally he should not be given the same rights as citizens. There are a disproportionate number of auto accidents each year caused by illegal aliens that kill American citizens. Besides, giving licenses to illegal aliens would open the door to illegal voting and that is the only reason many advocate such a sinister idea.
    I encounter people of different ethnic groups on a daily basis and have never had a first thought that they are possibly in this country illegally. American citizens are of all ethnic groups with all equal rights under the law, but those that are here illegally should not expect to have the same equal rights as a citizen. That includes a drivers license.

  • Evelyn
    February 29, 2008 at 3:05 pm

    Gee, how dumb this article makes the racist on this forum look!
    According to them they see no evil, speak no evil, and hear no evil. O yeah, an quit callin the minutemen vigilantes an sayen they shoot people.
    They dont never shoot people they only help the border patrol catch ileeeeegal aliens.

  • Evelyn
    February 29, 2008 at 4:11 pm

    As I went through all the threads today, I finally saw what I have been missing all along.
    No wonder everyone ignores all the racist on this forum. The level of intelligence they expose by what they think they know should be against the law.
    It’s like trying to carry on an adult conversation with a 6 year old. You cant!
    Is it possible for people to be soooo dumb. I didn’t think so, but I guess I was wrong. I think I will call it quits and ignore them too!

  • laura
    February 29, 2008 at 4:35 pm

    Thank you for this important contribution. Two Jewish organizations have also called on the media to stop promoting racist hate, most recently the Anti-Defamation League. These organizations recognize the stark parallels between today’s anti-immigrant racist propaganda and violence in the US, and the Nazi’s anti-Semitic racist propaganda and violence in 1930s Germany. For this reason, and out of simple decency, they also are calling for a halt to the anti-immigrant rhetoric.
    I should add that anti-immigrant, “anti-illegal” and anti-Latino rhetoric and violence are one and the same.
    Just to point out the parallels between our situation today in the US and the Nazis in Germany:
    1.Many people suffering economic insecurity: in Germany due to the Great Depression, here due to Bush-era (and Clinton-era) taking of money and resources from the middle class and poor and giving to the very rich.
    2.Rich people bankrolling propaganda to redirect people’s anger away from them and their policies, onto minorities: in Germany, industrialists like Krupp and Flick bankrolling Nazi newspapers like Julius Streicher’s “Der Stuermer,” to blame the Jews for all of Germany’s troubles. Here owners of the corporate media like CNN, Fox, and Clearchannel Radio paying directly the salaries of racist propagandists like Lou Dobbs and radio talk hosts to blame “illegals” for Americans’ troubles.
    3.State-promoted violence to strike fear into people belonging to the targeted minority. In Germany, violent raids on Jews’ homes and businesses by heavily armed uniformed police (SA and SS), here today violent raids on immigrants’ homes and workplaces by heavily armed uniformed police (ICE).
    4. Members of the targeted minority suddenly disappearing from their community: in Germany, Jews being grabbed wherever they were, jailed, brought into detention centers, and deported to concentration camps; here today undocumented immigrants being grabbed wherever they are, jailed, brought to detention centers and deported to distant countries they may not even remember
    5. Disregard for the actual life and survival of the detained minority people: in Germany, Jews were beaten to death during detention. Here today, thousands of immigrants have died during detention: we don’t know of what.
    One difference in this point is that Jews in Germany, as we know, were actually systematically killed by the millions in detention. This is not being done to immigrants here today. Seriously, this seems to me to be the major difference between the two historical moments. Otherwise, most points are frighteningly similar.
    6.Violent acts of the civilian population against members of the targeted minority. These were in fact quite rare in Germany itself against the Jews, and were seen more in associated countries like Austria after the “Anschluss” in 1938. Violent crimes of civilian Americans against Latinos are actually becoming more common now in the US, as our Guest Voz states.
    7. Violence both by the state and by civilians against the targeted minority intimidated everyone: if armed police could drag Jews out of their homes at 4 in the morning, as a German it was best to also keep silent because they might do it to you. This effect will become more prominent in the US over time if the corporation-state-racist individuals coalition to target immigrants continue on their present trajectory. The laws to suspend civil and human rights of Americans are already on the books, passed in the last few years at the Bush administration’s behest.
    8.Racist scapegoating being successful because of a latent undercurrent of racism in the society. Anti-Semitism and racism had been fostered in Germany since the Kaiserreich was founded in 1871. We know the history of racism here in the US – it may no longer be publicly acceptable to label an African-American with epithets, so instead this sentiment is vented in the epithets directed at “illegals.”
    9.Lastly: the ills attributed to the targeted minority had and have no basis in actual reality whatsoever. This was true of the Jews in Germany, who were said to be criminals, exploit Germans, and suck the vitality out of the country. It is true of the US today, where numerous studies have debunked the myths that attribute everything from crime to unemployment to “illegals”.
    I think La Raza’s campaign is very important, because the racist falsehoods spread by Lou Dobbs, the violence committed by ICE in raids on homes and workplaces, and the hate crimes perpetrated against Latinos all enable each other. They are all part of the same coalition to deflect blame for the country’s bad situation onto a defenseless minority.
    And as an aside: this effort was not good for 1930s Germany, and for non-Jewish Germans. It is not good for non-Latino Americans today. Many feel this intuitively – which is why Tom Tancredo failed first. But until they can be stopped, these racists will do much much harm to many innocent people: American citizens and non-citizens alike.

  • Horace
    February 29, 2008 at 5:27 pm

    Hate? This turns logic and justice on their heads. Honest citizens wish to have their consitutionally valid laws on immigration enforced and the advocates for the transgressors are accusing them of hate and racism! It’s La Raza that advocates rewarding illegal aliens with the privilege of driving, a blatant aiding an abetting of illegal immigration. Giving licenses to illegal aliens is an irrational act only advocated by the friends and family of persons who unlawfully work here. Maybe we should act favorably on the demands of the families of ordinary criminals as well for leniency so that they may not be inconvenienced by their absence. Giving licenses is an act that only encourages the homesteading of the very people that we, through our laws wish to evict. Its agents of Mexico like La Raza that are fomenting hate by offending the sensibilities of every honest citizen in this country. Ordinary citiizens see right through the agenda of La Raza by now. The citizens of this country do hate, but not the illegal aliens, only La Raza and its ilk, agencies which wish to tear down our legal system and destroy our country in process, all to sacrifice for illegal aliens who refuse to obey our laws. Our citzens are coming to know Mexican interference in what are our internal polticial matters. Ordinary citizens have a growing hate of that. If Hispanics think that such tactics work to their advantage, they should think again, as state after state has ignorned them and will continue to do so.

  • Frank
    February 29, 2008 at 5:38 pm

    This is utter BS! There is no racial hate directed towards Latinos legal or illegal in this country by the majority of Americans. The terms or words suggested to be “hate speech” are ridiculous.
    Americans are just frustrated with all the parties that have played a role in this illegal immigration mess we are in today. That is our government, the employers and the illegal themselves. That doesn’t equate to “hate”. Latino citizens who respect our laws and are not ethnocentrics are respected by their fellow citizens.
    I have heard way more “hate speech” directed at those of us who don’t advocate illegal immigration and want our laws enforced and our borders secured than the other way around.

  • Jax
    February 29, 2008 at 7:41 pm

    Let me see if I have this right:
    What you want to do is censor free speech on the public airwaves. Is that right? The mind reels when considering the steps you are willing to take in behalf of people who are, in fact, illegal aliens.

  • Liquidmicro
    March 1, 2008 at 1:07 am

    No Drivers License for Illegal/Undocumented/Dishonest/Illicit/Illegitimate/Banned/Prohibited/Unlawful Aliens/Strangers/Foreigners/Immigrants, simply because none of them have taken a drivers ed course here in the USA. They use fake/phony/stolen documentation to by pass this very important part, DRIVERS ED. Most have never been behind the wheel of a car in their lives. When and if caught driving, they issue a false name with no license so not to be found later.
    By coming from other countries, most people that know how to drive already have a drivers licenses from their home country, some my even have an International Drivers License. With these licenses they can legally drive here for the duration of their time or until their license expires. So then what would be the need for a State Drivers License here in the USA? After having allowed this for so long, and all the lying by the Illegal/Undocumented/Dishonest/Illicit/Illegitimate/Banned/Prohibited/Unlawful Aliens/Strangers/Foreigners/Immigrants using false names/documents how can they be remotely trusted?
    There is no discrimination or hate against anybody, as driving and having a drivers license is a privilege and not a right. If all they want is a form of ID they can have an ID issued to them through their consulate.

  • Evelyn
    March 1, 2008 at 3:32 am

    Hate Groups Hijack Immigration Debate
    New American Media, Commentary, Mark Potok Dec.13, 2007
    When it comes to debating immigration, the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) has a knack for finding a place at the table to pitch it’s position.
    In the past six years, FAIR officials have testified at least 30 times before Congress, and they have been quoted by the mainstream media more than 500 times so far in 2007. Earlier this year, the group played a key roll in defeating bipartisan immigration reform legislation in Congress. In short FAIR is taken seriously as a legitimate commentator.
    It shouldn’t be.
    Despite it’s frequent turns in the media spotlight, FAIR has a 20 year track record of bigotry and extremism that has led the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) to classify the organization as a HATE GROUP. The latest issue of SPLC’s quarterly Intelligence Report delves into FAIR’s history of bigotry and white supremacy. These are some of the findings:
    FAIR was founded in 1979 by John Tanton, who has compared immigrants to ‘bacteria’ and warned that high birthrates will allow Latinos to take over America. Still a member of FAIR’s board, Tanton also operates the Social Contract Press, listed as a hate group for many years by the SPLC because of its white supremacist writings.
    FAIR has accepted more than $1 million from the Pioneer Fund, a racist foundation devoted to eugenics and to proving a connection between race and IQ. While others have returned the fund’s money after learning of their background, FAIR President Dan Stein had no qualms about taking it, telling a reporter in 1993, “My job is to get every dime of Pioneer’s money.
    Key staff members of FAIR have ties to white supremacist groups. For example, Joseph Turner, who was hired by FAIR in late 2006 as its western field representative, led a nativist hate group called ‘Save our State’ Turner also defended white separatism on Save our State’s electronic bulletin board.
    FAIR has successfully spread racist conspiracy theories, including the bogus claim that Mexico has set its sights on “reconquering” the southwest and the notion of a secret plot to merge the U.S. Mexico and Canada.
    While much of this information has been available for years, it has not affected FAIR’s standing in the media. However, FAIR left little doubt about the way it does business this past February when a top official met with the leaders of Vlaams Belang, a Belgian political party that under its previous name, Vlaams Blok, was officially banned by the Belgian Supreme Court as a racist and xenophobic group. The meeting was held to seek the Europeans’ advice on immigration.
    The listing of FAIR as a hate group is significant because FAIR is the hub of the American nativest movement. Its position on immigration is rooted more in its anti-Latino and anti-Catholic beliefs than in policy concerns.
    Remarkably, Fair has infiltrated the mainstream and shaped the immigration debate in this country.
    This group more than any other, has contributed to the rancid turn the national immigration discussion has taken. With FAIR fanning the flames of xenophobic intolerance, hate groups and hate crimes directed at Latinos continue to rise in America.
    The SPLC has documented a 40% increase in the number of hate groups since 2000, an increase that SPLC analysts attribute to the anti-immigrant fervor that is sweeping the country. The FBI recently released statistics showing a 35% rise in hate crimes against Latinos since 2003.
    This country deserves an open and honest immigration debate. However the debate has proven to be a fertile ground for hate groups looking to spread their racist beliefs under the guise of immigration reform, This is why it is crucial for the American to understand the background and motives of the groups shaping this debate, such as FAIR. The nation’s immigration debate is simply too important to be POISONED by a bigoted group manipulating it for its own xenophobic reasons.

  • jaime
    March 1, 2008 at 10:20 am

    Quiero felicitarlos por este sitio es interesante leer todos los comentarios acerca de la gente indocumentada buenos y malos (comentarios) solo hay algo que quisiera preguntarle a las personas que no quieren alos indocomentados QUE HARIAN SI TODOS NOSOTROS NOS FUERAMOS DE ESTE PAIS? creen llenar los trabajos que quedaran vacios?

  • laura
    March 1, 2008 at 11:41 am

    Interesting point, Jax. Though La Raza, the Anti-Defamation League, and many others are not calling for censorship, maybe they should. Maybe we should.
    These organizations are calling for a stop of the huge corporate media’s bankrolling of racist hate speech. Stop paying Lou Dobbs. Stop paying Bill O’ Reilly. Stop paying the right-wing talk hosts.
    These people in fact do not reflect the attitudes of the majority of Americans. However, commentators and analysts that do reflect American attitudes of decency, fairness, respect for families and for hard work, are not being paid by the corporate media to disseminate the truth about undocumented migrants.
    The active promotion of anti-immigrant hate by corporate media is what La Raza and Jewish organizations, as well as denominational organizations, are highlighting and trying to push back.
    In contrast, censorship is actually written into law in today’s Germany, one of the stablest democracies on the planet today. It is against the law there to print or disseminate Nazi propaganda or use Nazi symbols. These laws exist because of Germans’ firsthand experience with the disastrous and deadly consequences of racist speech.
    Should we advocate a similar legal prohibition of racist hate speech here in the US? Personally I don’t think so, because I share in the hope that better ideas tend to win. But Nazi Germany is a stark example of what happens when better ideas lose. And racist hate speech in Germany in the 1930s was bankrolled by heads of huge corporations, just like it is in the US today.

  • Horace
    March 1, 2008 at 1:47 pm

    Laura said: “Just to point out the parallels between our situation today in the US and the Nazis in Germany:”
    “1.Many people suffering economic insecurity: in Germany due to the Great Depression, here due to Bush-era (and Clinton-era) taking of money and resources from the middle class and poor and giving to the very rich.”
    Where is the parallel to Nazi Germany? I know of no case, despite the dreadfulness of the Nazi government treatment of its own Jews, that Hitler was stealing rom the middle class Germans and giving to the rich. Such a program doesn’t exist in the history books.
    “2.Rich people bankrolling propaganda to redirect people’s anger away from them and their policies, onto minorities: in Germany, industrialists like Krupp and Flick bankrolling Nazi newspapers like Julius Streicher’s “Der Stuermer,” to blame the Jews for all of Germany’s troubles. Here owners of the corporate media like CNN, Fox, and Clearchannel Radio paying directly the salaries of racist propagandists like Lou Dobbs and radio talk hosts to blame “illegals” for Americans’ troubles.”
    The only problem with this parellel is that the people in question, the illegal immigrants are not citizens but actively breaking the laws of the land to enter our country. The Jews, gypsies and metally retarded were actually citizens of Germany who were persecuted. Our illegal aliens, are subject to deportation under due process of law as provided for by our Constitution. You’re really spinning this one Laura, as there is no comparison to Nazi Germany here. The true racists are the ethnocentric Hispanics who wish to bull doze their way through our legal system and have us ignore our laws and the will of the citizens.
    “3.State-promoted violence to strike fear into people belonging to the targeted minority. In Germany, violent raids on Jews’ homes and businesses by heavily armed uniformed police (SA and SS), here today violent raids on immigrants’ homes and workplaces by heavily armed uniformed police (ICE).”
    This is really too much. ICE is merely arresting law breakers, mostly people guilty of identity theft, as well as raiding companies that have the employment of illegal aliens as their policy. They are armed in that way to protect themselves because they are often outnumbered by the large numbers of illegal aliens who could eventually fight back against their deportation. There is no guarrantee that a raid will not be met by armed resistance. I’m sorry, but I support these people in doing their sworn duty to enforce our laws. It should be noted that there is no evidence that any of the people who’ve been picked up in these raids has ever been hurt by these heavily armed men. You’re just demonizing these law enforcement people to promote your own agenda.”
    “4. Members of the targeted minority suddenly disappearing from their community: in Germany, Jews being grabbed wherever they were, jailed, brought into detention centers, and deported to concentration camps; here today undocumented immigrants being grabbed wherever they are, jailed, brought to detention centers and deported to distant countries they may not even remember.”
    It’s not our country’s fault if these people choose to occupy our country so long that they lose touch with their countrymen or culture. This is a conscious thing on the part, because they knew very well that they could be deported. And it’s a stretch to compare deportation centers to concentration camps where people are worked to death and burned in ovens. This is another way of demonizing our law enforcement personnel and procedures. Why aren’t you discussing the Mexican government’s horrible treatment and detention of their illegal aliens. You won’t because it’s not on your agenda.
    “5. Disregard for the actual life and survival of the detained minority people: in Germany, Jews were beaten to death during detention. Here today, thousands of immigrants have died during detention: we don’t know of what.
    One difference in this point is that Jews in Germany, as we know, were actually systematically killed by the millions in detention. This is not being done to immigrants here today. Seriously, this seems to me to be the major difference between the two historical moments. Otherwise, most points are frighteningly similar.”
    Another propaganda lie by the illegal alien advocacy crowd. There is absolutely no evidence that “thousands” of illegal aliens have died in detention center. Here is a case of extreme exaggeration of a few cases at most, over a long time frame.
    6.Violent acts of the civilian population against members of the targeted minority. These were in fact quite rare in Germany itself against the Jews, and were seen more in associated countries like Austria after the “Anschluss” in 1938. Violent crimes of civilian Americans against Latinos are actually becoming more common now in the US, as our Guest Voz states.”
    The laws are directed at all illegal aliens, not just Latinos. Please give us some numbers to back this up. Another outrageous claim with no truth to it.
    “7. Violence both by the state and by civilians against the targeted minority intimidated everyone: if armed police could drag Jews out of their homes at 4 in the morning, as a German it was best to also keep silent because they might do it to you. This effect will become more prominent in the US over time if the corporation-state-racist individuals coalition to target immigrants continue on their present trajectory. The laws to suspend civil and human rights of Americans are already on the books, passed in the last few years at the Bush administration’s behest.”
    More rediculous hyperbole unsupported by facts. The only people being arrested and targeted are illegal aliens and their aiders and abettors.
    “8.Racist scapegoating being successful because of a latent undercurrent of racism in the society. Anti-Semitism and racism had been fostered in Germany since the Kaiserreich was founded in 1871. We know the history of racism here in the US – it may no longer be publicly acceptable to label an African-American with epithets, so instead this sentiment is vented in the epithets directed at “illegals.””
    I’m sorry that that illegal aliens do not like being called illegal aliens, but that’s no more unexpected than thieves being called thieves and rapists being called rapists. The are what they are and no spinning is going to make the public feel any better about the transgressions against their Constitutionally enacted laws. If they don’t like it, then they can go home to their paradise in Mexico. Remember that horrible place that they escaped from. Obviously it is better to live in this terrible country than their homelands, yet they just keep coming for more. Wonderous, isn’t it?
    “9.Lastly: the ills attributed to the targeted minority had and have no basis in actual reality whatsoever. This was true of the Jews in Germany, who were said to be criminals, exploit Germans, and suck the vitality out of the country. It is true of the US today, where numerous studies have debunked the myths that attribute everything from crime to unemployment to “illegals”.”
    Crimes are being committed by illegal aliens every day. It’s in the newspapers, on the web, jus open your eyes. Why should Americans accept this crime as just colllateral damage to the influx of innocent illegal immigrants. Tell the mothers of the dead that their children died for the convenience of the presence of foreigners who would never be here if our immigration laws had been enforced. While the crime rate of ordinary immigrants may be no higher than for ordinary citizens, that’s not the point. There are thousands of citizens that would be alive today if there was no illegal immigration. That my friends is irrefutable.

  • lesing
    March 2, 2008 at 4:17 am

    The latinos are the most racist people in the country and will always be shut out by society because of it. These people never consider that there are other people in the world but them. Yes they can out breed Americans, but what have they done for this or any county for that matter, except look for free health care, welfare, education, etc. Most americans don’t care about race, but it is the latinos that bring up race any time a law is broken by them. Enough is enough we are a county of laws ands the latinos bring up race most of the time when they break the law.

  • Jax
    March 2, 2008 at 10:09 pm

    Wanting illegals to respect our immigration laws does not mean that we hate them. This country has a long and proud history of welcoming legal immigrants. It it not unreasonable to ask that our laws be rspected.

  • Frank
    March 3, 2008 at 8:49 am

    So according to the NCLR and their supporters calling illegals “illegal aliens” is hate speech? What about them calling Americans who want our immigration laws enforced being called racists, bigots and xenophones? Isn’t that hate speech? Hypocricy rules here, doesn’t it?
    The way I look at it, I don’t care what the NCLR or Lou Dobbs, etc. and their followers have to say about the illegal immigration issue, we should only be looking at what the laws of our country say.

  • Evelyn
    March 3, 2008 at 10:16 am

    This country has a long proud history of welcoming unauthorized immigrants too. Just look at all the unauthorized immigrants working.
    Look at all the Americans buying fruits and vegetables harvested by labor of unauthorized immigrants. No one is boycotting.
    Americans are eating steaks and chops at an all time high. No one is asking that these products be labeled to make sure that labor by unauthorized immigrants wasn’t used.
    Americans go out to eat at restaurants and fast food places every day and they never ask who is preparing the food or washing the dishes they are served on.
    Americans live in houses built by the labor of the immigrants, and drive on roads paved by immigrants. No one is stopping to see if these immigrants are here legally or not.
    Americans have their houses, hospitals, and offices cleaned by immigrants. They have their elderly and their children cared for by immigrants, and no one is asking who is legal and who is not.
    It’s just a few racist, hate mongers with big mouths, who aren’t even going to vote because all the candidates like the majority of Americans also support the immigrants that are spewing all the hate.
    Even the racist enjoy the products and services that immigrants provide, then cry and whine when they get demonized the way they demonize Hispanics and immigrants.
    Everyone knows it has nothing to do with immigrants, it has everything to do with racism and the fact that this bunch of racists dont like Hispanics.

  • laura
    March 3, 2008 at 2:57 pm

    I said:
    “3.State-promoted violence to strike fear into people belonging to the targeted minority. In Germany, violent raids on Jews’ homes and businesses by heavily armed uniformed police (SA and SS), here today violent raids on immigrants’ homes and workplaces by heavily armed uniformed police (ICE).”
    Horace said:
    This is really too much. ICE is merely arresting law breakers,
    Horace, my friend, that is exactly my point. The Nazi SA and SS were also merely arresting law breakers. German laws stated clearly that Jews could not hold jobs, and Jews could not own businesses. Jews who worked in non-Jewish Germans’ companies or who were self-employed were breaking the laws of the German state.
    The Nazis said these laws were necessary to defend the German nation against the onslaught of Jews.

  • Frank
    March 3, 2008 at 5:10 pm

    I have never heard any politican admit that allowing illegal aliens into our country was “pridefull”. It certainly isn’t a source of pride for your everyday working American and it certainly wasn’t encourged by law abiding citizens.
    No one knows if the apple they are eating was picked by a citizen, a legal immigrant or an illegal alien. They are all possibilites. Should a citizen put their health in jeapardy on the “possibility” that an illegal alien might have picked it? Again, the term “immigrant” is used when they are actually talking about an illegal alien. Why the smoke and mirrors and lies?
    Race card pulling noted again while ignoring the racism on the other side of the issue who want as many of their own ethnic kind in this country even if it means advocating the breaking of our laws.
    It truly is “hate speech” to call ones own law abiding fellow American citizens racists for wanting our immigration laws enforced and our borders secured.

  • Frank
    March 3, 2008 at 5:13 pm

    laura, are there any Hispanic citizens or legal immigrants being denied jobs in our country or being denied the right to open a business in this country?

  • Horace
    March 3, 2008 at 7:42 pm

    One problem with your argument Laura, is that every nation on the planet could be construed as Nazi-like, as most nations restrict the employment of aliens, legal or not, including everyone’s favorite, Mexico.
    Considering there has been no internationally recognized legitimate movement to advocate for unrestricted employment of illegal aliens, your case has little credibility. You’re just blowing smoke up our butts, in a fashion similar to many who’ve falsely claimed the existence of the right of unrestricted movement of migrants.

  • Liquidmicro
    March 3, 2008 at 7:49 pm

    You have some serious issues, Evelyn, try a therapist.
    The laws from ’86 were put in place and business owners were to filter the legal from the Illegal workers. The federal government would send out no match letters every now and then. The system failed due to the fake/phony/forged documents provided by the Illegals, because the excuse of “they looked real to me” from the business owners. Now with E-Verify, they no longer have that excuse, the Federal Government is attempting to do its job, filtering out legal from Illegal workers, taking that away from the hands of business’. The American Citizen does not have the right to walk up and ask to see “papers” of somebody that is working, it was up to the business owners to do that. The American Citizen was duped by the business owners, all for the love of money. Your rants are directed at the wrong group of people, the Citizens, when they should be directed at the greedy business owners for paying these workers unfairly, if at all, and exploiting them for their own profit. That is what most American Citizens want, the business held accountable and the federal government to do its job and enforce the laws that are on the books.
    If all the Undocumented were to leave today, the American Economy would be doing just the same as it is already, no different. Our unemployment is rising already, thus undocumented as well are already out of work. Our economy will be going down for at least the next 2 years, maybe longer, unemployment will continue to rise, though it will top out eventually. About the only job American Citizens don’t want to do is crop picking, mostly due to low wages. Again, farmers have cheated the system there and even the undocumented are being exploited by them instead of being taken care of through the H-2A Visa as required.

  • Horace
    March 3, 2008 at 9:03 pm

    “Horace, my friend, that is exactly my point. The Nazi SA and SS were also merely arresting law breakers. German laws stated clearly that Jews could not hold jobs, and Jews could not own businesses. Jews who worked in non-Jewish Germans’ companies or who were self-employed were breaking the laws of the German state.”
    Illegal immigrants are not Jews or Gypsies or being persecuted for their religion or race, but merely arrested and deported to their homes of record. You’d deny this nation the same right to arrest and deport as is excercised under the sovereign rights of every nation on earth, including Mexico and the rest of Latin America? Are all those nations Nazi-like. Would you be so bold to call Mexico Nazi-like as you are in disparaging your own country? By your analogies to the Nazis, you disrespect your country (presumably you are a U.S. citizen). Frankly, I am starting to suspect the loyalty of Hispanics to this nation and wonder who they would side with in a pinch. I recall a German plot during WWI that was called the Zimmerman Affair, where Germany invited Mexico to attack the U.S., with its support of course. The Mexicans bowed out only because their supply lines would be too vulnerable and they would be unable to control the populace due to the language difference. By the way Hispanics are so dismissive of our laws I find them to be poor citizens. Many apparently have learned nothing in the way of civics lessons in the schools. Considering more than half of all Hispanics in the LA school systems fail to graduate, I can understand their ignorance.

  • laura
    March 4, 2008 at 9:27 am

    Horace said:
    “By the way Hispanics are so dismissive of our laws I find them to be poor citizens.”
    Horace, my friend, your impression again is incorrect. Below, I pasted in part of a recent article in Time magazine, which I copied from their website.
    “Despite our melting-pot roots, Americans have often been quick to blame the influx of immigrants for rising crime rates. But new research released Monday shows that immigrants in California are, in fact, far less likely than U.S.-born Californians are to commit crime. While people born abroad make up about 35% of California’s adult population, they account for only about 17% of the adult prison population, the report by the Public Policy Institute of California (PPIC) showed. Indeed, among men ages 18 to 40 — the demographic most likely to be imprisoned — those born in the U.S. were 10 times more likely than foreign-born men to be incarcerated.
    “From a public safety standpoint, there would be little reason to limit immigration,” says Kristin Butcher, an economics professor at Wellesley College and one of the report’s authors.
    The new report even bolsters claims by some academics that increased immigration makes the United States safer. A second study, released earlier this month by Washington-based nonprofit Immigration Policy Center, found that on the national level, U.S.-born men ages 18-39 are five times more likely to be incarcerated than are their foreign-born peers. And, while the number of illegal immigrants in the country doubled between 1994 and 2005, violent crime declined by nearly 35% and property crimes by 26% over the same period. The PPIC even determined that on average, between 2000 and 2005, cities such as Los Angeles that took in a higher share of recent immigrants saw their crime rates fall further than cities with a lower influx of illegals.”
    As for the analogy to Nazi Germany: Fortunately, we have many people here standing up to defend democracy, civil rights and human rights of all residents of this country. Germany did not have these movements on such a scale. That is why, eventually, after committing unspeakable crimes against their minorities, majority Germans also suffered terribly in a war they started and lost. I am much more hopeful about our prospects here today. But democracy can always be lost if we are not vigilant and do not stand up to defend it.
    And as I said, racist hate speech is prohibited by law in Germany today, in the form of actual state censorship, based on their own terrible experience.

  • Texas Proud
    March 4, 2008 at 10:24 am

    Such strong words Horace:
    ” Frankly, I am starting to suspect the loyalty of Hispanics to this nation and wonder who they would side with in a pinch.”
    “By the way Hispanics are so dismissive of our laws I find them to be poor citizens. Many apparently have learned nothing in the way of civics lessons in the schools. Considering more than half of all Hispanics in the LA school systems fail to graduate, I can understand their ignorance.”
    Why don’t you tell the Hispanic families of the fallen soldiers that they their sons and daughters that have died for this country are not loyal or the sons and daughters that come back with missing limbs or physiological problems that they are not loyal? Why don’t you tell the children whose parents are over their fighting this war that their mommies and daddies are unpatriotic and disloyal to this country? Just to show you proof here is a list for you of ALL AMERICAN SOLDIERS who have lost their lives for this country. Read it and look at the faces of these brave American Heroes and tell me that they are not loyal.
    Also, just because you don’t feel undocumented immigrants should be here does not give you the right to start bashing all Hispanics. We are not ignorant or dismissive of the law. We are not lower class citizens just because we don’t agree with you politically or otherwise. This is what is great about this nation we can all agree and disagree or agree to disagree. I love this country like no other. I am proud to be an American as I am proud of being of Mexican descent. You think just because we can identify with our different cultures that we can’t identify with our American culture but you are wrong. Where but in America can you celebrate Christmas with the tree and Santa Clause and the Tres Reyes? Where but in America can you celebrate the 4th of July, Cinco de Mayo and have two new years? Where but in America can you have a Republican white neighbor love your child like it was her own and not think twice that the mother is a Hispanic Democrat?
    Just think about it Horace, just think about it.

  • Texano78704
    March 4, 2008 at 11:02 am

    Racism is indeed alive and well, and immigration is no exception. The Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882 was the first legislation that significantly restricted immigration. It was later followed up by the Asian Exclusion Act of 1924. Both of these laws targeted specific groups and were, in part, instituted to preserve the superiority (in numbers) of Northern Europeans in the US.
    It is not surprising then that we see the reemergence of terms like “invasion,” “hordes” that “swarm,” and “parasites.” Fear based on allegations that immigrants bring disease and crime are widely used, though unfounded.
    Even though Jim Crow is gone and our immigration laws are finally no longer race-based, other forms of institutional racism have taken their place.
    ”By the way Hispanics are so dismissive of our laws I find them to be poor citizens.”
    That’s funny, very much like putting the cart before the horse and then complaining that the horse is pushing too fast. Or are you really criticizing capitalism here? The laws of supply and demand are in effect. The real blame for the current situation should go to those that created the demand for cheap labor. But I am sure you do not want to be bothered with things like facts. They would just stand in the way of your ability to make disparaging remarks.

  • Evelyn
    March 4, 2008 at 2:14 pm

    This is too easy. Throw out a bone, and voila, many are eager to display their Ignorance. ROTFL! :->

  • Evelyn
    March 4, 2008 at 5:29 pm

    The Philadelphia Inquirer
    Posted on Sun, Feb. 24, 2008
    Editorial: Our Racist Past
    It’s time we spoke the hard truth
    Prime Minister Kevin Rudd of Australia earlier this month formally apologized to the aborigines of his country for their long mistreatment.
    Did Australia’s global standing plummet? Is Australia a laughingstock? Did millions of fed-up Australians get the heck off the continent?
    United States of America, take note: The next president should make a formal acknowledgment of slavery and other racist oppressions essential to the rise of this country – and what better place to get it done, in two or three sentences, than at the Inauguration itself?
    In 1999, Switzerland apologized to Jewish refugees for its treatment of them during the Holocaust. Is Switzerland now diminished? Is it any less rich? Less respected?
    Germany has repeatedly admitted its history of racism and genocide, beginning in the 1950s, when Chancellor Konrad Adenauer acknowledged Nazi war crimes in a meeting with Prime Minister David Ben-Gurion of Israel.
    Germany today is one of the most successful democracies in the world. How has apology harmed Germany?
    Pope John Paul II during his 2000 visit to Israel prayed repeatedly for forgiveness for Christians who oppressed Jews throughout history.
    Did that weaken the church’s moral authority? Or did it not rather strengthen it?
    In January a new U.S. president will be sworn in. Afterward, he or she will turn to the nation and the world – and speak.
    Something cries out to be said at that moment: that America is a great, beloved nation – but that its greatness was built on the backs of millions who were marginalized, oppressed and even enslaved.
    This nation’s history includes the enslavement of Africans, genocide against indigenous peoples in the Indian Wars, mass deportations of Asian workers in the 19th century, and the detention of Americans of Japanese descent during World War II (for which Congress did finally agree to an apology and compensation in 1987).
    Every man and woman in this country, of every color and class, has what he and she has – or does not have – in part because of these legacies.
    These sad facts do not diminish this country as it stands today. What diminishes this country is its guilty refusal to speak the truth.
    It would take a few words of clear, direct English. If people abhor the word apology – at least recognize the wrong, express regret, ask forgiveness, vow to do better. Speak the truth.
    The new president need not speak a single divisive syllable. Speak to all Americans on behalf of all Americans. This will be a call on all to let go of denial, see the past clearly, and say: This nation is better than that and will never let it happen again.
    Why has no president ever done this? Politics. Ideology. Cowardice on all sides. But that could change. Easily.
    A man who has suffered imprisonment and torture for his country – surely he has the courage to say these words.
    A woman who as a first lady and U.S. senator has never stuttered about the need to raise the oppressed – surely she has the courage to say these words.
    A man with an African father and an American mother, a man who knows many faces of our multicolored, manifold society – surely he has the courage.
    But will any of them do it?
    Or will our nation be shamed by Australia, the Vatican and Switzerland?
    Will we keep a warm seat on the couch for the gorilla in the room?
    Or, in the sight of the human and the divine, can truth finally be spoken – and a whole nation step forward, stronger than ever?
    The most important lesson to be learned is for all American Citizens to fight those ignorant few who advocate for these mistakes to be repeated. What an embarrassment that these types still exist, in the most powerful country in the world. These racist dont give a second thought to crushing the U.S. as she stands today. Their only thought is satisfying their hate-mongering, bigoted ways.

  • Frank
    March 5, 2008 at 8:54 am

    I will attempt to cover some of the remarks made in here by a few.
    First, the reports about crimes committed by foreigners here uses the word “immigrant” not illegal aliens. So using common sense the stats in the reports are not about the latter but the former.
    All of these reports that the pro-illegals post in here are no more credible than any reports that the anti-illegals post in here. Why don’t we debate from the points of common sense, logic and the rule of law instead? Let’s not muddy the waters of the rights of those who have taken up residency in our country illegally and legal residents. There is a huge difference between the rights of legal residences and illegal residences.
    Anyone in our military above all should be opposed to illegal immgigration in our country. Afterall, they are sworn to defend our country abroad and in our own country from foreign incursion.
    The only legal Hispanics that I know that might get “bashed” as you call it, are those who advocate the illegal entry of their own ethnic kind into this country and then turn around and call law abiding Americans racists for not advocating the same. If the shoe fits, wear it. If it doesn’t then it doesn’t apply to you. Different cultural pracitices or holidays have nothing to do with the illegal immigration issue so I don’t know why that was even brought up.
    Perhaps in past history racism did play a part in immigration as far as our government policies went. But today our government does not practice racial discrimination in immigration issues. We have fair quotas for most and in fact Latino immmigration is second only to Asians in our quotas. Whites are alloted even less of a quota.
    After this nation was established as the U.S. most immigrants came here legally. We cannot and should not tolerate illegal immigration. We may be a nation based on capitalism but we are also a nation of laws. If we don’t remain so we can kiss capitalism and many other things that have made this country successfull goodbye and welcome chaos and corruption instead. We are already on our way there. Let’s nip it in the bud now.

  • Evelyn
    March 5, 2008 at 7:53 pm

    Many immigrants were legal only because there were no rules
    Sunday, July 22, 2007
    There are many solid arguments for why the United States should not grant legal status to illegal immigrants, as proposed in the Senate immigration reform bill quashed last month.
    But throughout the immigra tion debate, one particular mantra was heard from opponents of legalization, perhaps more than any other:
    “My ancestors came here legally.”
    So too, the argument holds, must today’s immigrants. We’re a nation of laws, we must be consistent, and we must not reward law breakers.
    It’s a mighty handy argument that worked wonders for oppo nents of the legalization bill. It’s logical, and draws a clear moral distinction between previous generations of law-abiding immigrants and today’s border-jumpers. It heads off allegations of xenophobia, allowing the speaker to say it’s not immigrants he or she is against, just illegality.
    It works, too, because it rings true with Americans. The images burned into our brains of previous immigration waves come largely from newsreels and photos of immigrants disembarking at Ellis Island, one at a time, orderly, legally.
    There’s one problem with the argument. It’s utter hogwash.
    First of all, for hundreds of years, as immigrants poured in by the hundreds of thousands from the 1600s to the early 1900s, there were simply no federal immigration laws to break.
    Unless you were a criminal or insane (or after 1882, Chinese), once you landed here, you were legal.
    Crediting yesteryear’s immigrants with following the laws is like calling someone a good driver because they never got caught speeding on the Autobahn.
    “Only 1 percent of people who showed up at Ellis Island were turned away,” said Mae Ngai, author of “Impossible Subjects: Illegal Aliens and the Making of Modern America.”
    “What that statement is ignorant of is that we didn’t always have restrictions. It’s a fairly recent phenomenon.”
    Level the playing field hypothetically, and the argument becomes even more preposterous.
    Imagine today’s immigration laws, which make it impossible for most poor foreign farmers to immigrate legally — in effect in, say, in 1849.
    Somewhere in Ireland, a starving farmer turns to his family, their mouths green from eating grass in the midst of the potato famine.
    “We could escape to America and have food to eat,” the farmer says. “But I’d never do that without a visa. That would be a violation of U.S. immigration law.”
    Ridiculous, of course. That farmer would have done exactly what today’s Mexicans, Chinese and Guatemalans are doing by the millions — get to the United States so they can feed their families, and worry about getting papers later.
    Which brings us to the second reason the “my ancestors came legally” argument is absurd.
    It’s because lots of people’s ancestors simply didn’t.
    Once Congress put immigration quotas in place to keep out less desirable Eastern and Southern Europeans in 1921, they began sneaking in by the thousands.
    On June 17, 1923, the New York Times reported that W.H. Husband, commissioner general of immigration, had been trying for two years “to stem the flow of immigrants from central and southern Europe, Africa and Asia that has been leaking across the borders of Mexico and Canada and through the ports of the east and west coasts.”
    A story from the Sept. 16, 1927, New York Times describes government plans for stepped up Coast Guard patrols because thousands of Chinese, Japanese, Greeks, Russians and Italians were landing in Cuba and then hiring smugglers to take them to the United States, illegally.
    Two years earlier, the immigration service reported that 1.4 million immigrants might be living illegally in the U.S., according to the immigration service’s 1925 annual report.
    “The figures presented are worthy of very serious thought, especially when it is considered that such a great percentage of our population … whose first act upon reaching our shores was to break our laws by entering in a clandestine manner,” the report found.
    The problem got so bad that the government was forced to legalize an estimated 200,000 illegal European immigrants by a process called pre-examination. These days, the process would be called amnesty.
    Clearly, if everyone’s grandparents said they immigrated legally, someone’s grandparents were lying.
    “When people cite their grandparents, they’re basically operating with a very limited understanding of what immigration was back then,” said Edward O’Donnell, author of “1001 Things Everyone Should Know About Irish American History.”
    “There’s nothing people are more proud of than these huddled masses yearning to breathe free. It’s based on a very skewed or no knowledge of history.”
    Stanford University history professor Richard White discovered that after he began researching a book on his family’s immigrant past.
    White found his grandfather tried to immigrate from Ireland through Canada in 1936 because he could not get a visa under the quota laws.
    “He tried to come through Detroit. It was hard to get caught at Detroit, but he managed to get caught,” White said. Back in Canada, his grandfather called his brother, a Chicago police officer, who crossed the border and met him there. The two then walked to Detroit, his brother flashing his Chicago policeman’s badge to U.S. customs officers who waved the pair through.
    “I wouldn’t be here, my brothers wouldn’t be here if illegal aliens had been rounded up and dragged out,” said White, a 1992 Pulitzer Prize finalist.
    Few people say what White does in public. But since Ngai wrote her book in 2005, she has heard from some of them. They’re not going on talk shows, blogging or writing letters to newspaper editors. But they’re out there, even if they don’t know it.
    Perhaps if the Senate’s legalization bill comes around again, their story could be a rallying cry for those in favor of amnesty.
    “Their voice drops to a whisper,” Ngai says. “And they say to me, “you know, my grandparents came illegally.”
    Brian Donohue is a Star-Ledger staff writer who covers immigration
    Many people forget we are also a nation of immigrants. Many people also forget the Immigrants are working. If the immigrants were not working. They would not be here.
    They are here because we need the goods and services they provide us at affordable prices.
    Some people say those jobs should be done by white people.
    White people have all the advantages, and they speak English.
    If they cannot land one of these jobs, something is wrong. The white people need to go after the employers that are not willing to hire them.
    Maby it’s because they dont want to work like the employers claim.

  • Liquidmicro
    March 5, 2008 at 10:24 pm

    Laura, seems you only read the headline and the bold print of your report. Try reading the whole report to include the notes at the end, it will give a much clearer picture. Especially notes #3, 8, 9, 18, 21, 22, 24.
    Immigration and
    Crime: A Complex
    Do immigrants add to the crime risk in the population?
    Like any form of population growth, immigration is likely to add to the total number of crimes committed. However, if immigrants are less criminally active than the U.S.-born, then immigration will lead to lower overall crime rates and lower likelihoods of any given individual becoming a crime victim. Of course, some crimes, by their very nature, are committed only by immigrants— for example, illegally entering the country or working without a proper visa. In the analysis presented here, we focus on criminal activity that both the U.S.-born and foreign-born are at risk of committing and that arguably is a more direct threat to public safety. With that focus in mind, we assess the relative crime rates among the foreign-born and the U.S.-born.
    Currently, U.S. immigration policy provides several mechanisms that are likely to reduce the criminal activity of immigrants. Legal immigrants are screened with regard to their criminal backgrounds. In addition, all non-citizens, even those in the United States legally, are subject to deportation if convicted of a criminal offense that is punishable by a prison sentence of a year or more, even if that sentence is suspended. Furthermore, those in the country illegally have an additional incentive to avoid contact with law enforcement—even for minor offenses—since such contact is likely to increase the chances that their illegal status will be revealed.
    To answer our initial question— are the foreign-born more likely than the U.S.-born to commit crimes—we would need a complete set of information on individuals’ criminal activities, regardless of whether they are ever caught, tried, convicted, or sentenced for these activities, and a complete set of individual characteristics, including for the foreign-born the conditions under which they entered the country. As with most studies, we do not have ideal data. This lack of data restricts the questions we will be able to answer. In particular, we cannot focus on the undocumented population explicitly.
    For those who are not in the country legally, deportation is a potential penalty of apprehension for a minor crime and is more likely for conviction of a serious one.(3) If one is in the country illegally—either by illegal entry or by abusing a visa—then one is deportable even without criminal activity. But criminal activity makes it more likely that one’s illegal status will come to the attention of authorities.
    The Criminal Justice
    These findings are noteworthy, but it is important to keep in mind that interpreting differences in incarceration as a direct representation of differences in underlying criminal activity can be problematic. We must also take into account the processes of law enforcement that mediate the relationship between crime and incarceration. These processes, sometimes known as the criminal justice “funnel,” are represented in Figure 4. The sequence goes like this: Before becoming incarcerated, those who engage in criminal activity must first be apprehended and arrested. Among those arrested, some fraction is charged and prosecuted. Of those prosecuted, a fraction is convicted. Of those convicted, the sentence must be severe enough to warrant a term of incarceration for an individual to appear in data on incarceration and institutionalization. These intervening steps require that caution be used when inferring criminal activity from observations about the end point—incarceration or institutionalization.
    Does Deportation
    If incarceration and institutionalization rates have the same relationship with criminal activity for the foreign-born and the U.S.-born—that is, if both groups are treated equally in the criminal justice system—then the data presented here indicate that the foreign-born have remarkably low rates of criminal offending in California. Of course, there are a number of reasons to wonder if the relationship between institutionalization and criminal activity is the same for the foreign-born and the U.S.-born. Differences in treatment between the foreign-born and the U.S.-born at any juncture in the criminal justice system may lead to differences in institutionalization rates for a given level of criminal activity.
    Such differences could skew our findings in either direction, by inflating the institutionalization rates of either the foreign-born or the U.S.-born. For example, the U.S.-born may be better able to aid in their own defense and thus have lower probabilities of conviction or shorter sentences conditional on conviction.(18) At the same time, if the foreign-born are swiftly deported for criminal activity, then their institutionalized numbers will be low relative to their actual criminal activity.
    How much does deportation matter? Unfortunately, neither the federal nor the state government provides data on the numbers of deported prisoners in sufficient detail for us to assess fully the role of deportation on institutionalization rates of the foreign-born.(19)
    However, a brief examination of the current deportation processes will allow us to make some educated guesses. Of course, we cannot fully analyze here the complicated ways in which deportation rules interact with state and local law enforcement; instead, we will simply provide an overview.

  • Horace
    March 6, 2008 at 5:58 am

    No matter how much rationalization of this issue you do, no thinking person is going to abandon our rule of law for your sake or the sake of illegal aliens. There will be no amnesty. State after state will continue to enact laws that will result in the repatriation of your friends. Listen to the news. Thousands are returning to Mexico every day, and the numbers will only grow as the numbers of states enacting legislation increase. This best thing for you to do is to go back to Mexico and stay there and help them out.

  • Frank
    March 6, 2008 at 7:59 am

    Most any immigrant who entered this country prior to 1920 when immigration laws were established is dead and gone so it matters not what they did. If there were no immigration laws then they didn’t break any. Besides it has nothing to do with the present. We cannot be held accountable for what dead people did. We are not them and they are not us. We have to go by what has occured since 1920 when immigration laws were established. It is ridiculous to argue from the point of “what was” rather than “what is”.
    Yes, we were a nation of immigrants at one time but we were never a nation of illegal aliens. We are now a nation of Americans. Most of us alive today were born here or naturalized here. Time to drop the anchor around our necks of “we are a nation of immigrants”. Yes, we still do take in immigrants just like most other countries but that doesn’t make us a nation of immigrants anymore as most of us are Americans now. Why are other nations who take in immigrant not called a nation of immigrants then?

  • laura
    March 6, 2008 at 11:29 am

    The campaign to stop the hate of NCLR is a good first step.
    I did what they are suggesting – wrote to Fox and MSNBC. Marisa, Evelyn and all people of good will – please consider doing this.
    Suggestion for a next step: Sponsors of shows such as Lou Dobbs will be requested to stop advertising on racist anti-immigrant shows. If they continue, we will boycott their products.

  • Evelyn
    March 6, 2008 at 1:08 pm

    You have every right to dream.

  • Horace
    March 6, 2008 at 5:11 pm

    That’s real funny, Laura, as Lou has been given a three hour radio show to profess his message. You can try to silence the truth, but this is the U.S., not Mexico. By advocatinng the silencing of Lou Dobbs in his 1st Amendment right, you only serve to expose yourselves for the tyrants that you are. Censorship does not work in the U.S.

  • Horace
    March 6, 2008 at 5:20 pm

    Your advocacy groups are dumber than I thought. First they initiate marches that serve only to turn the general public against illegal aliens, and then they try censorship. Better hope that it never happens. Many citizens may not like Lou Dobbs message, but most will support his right to free expression. If they perceive that his right to free speech has been stifled, there will be a backlash like nothing you’ve seen yet. If La Raza wasn’t so stupid, they’d accept that Dobbs is here to stay and try something less provocative. I love it when people shoot themselves in the foot. Let the games begin!

  • Horace
    March 6, 2008 at 5:22 pm

    Marisa, what do you think about censoring Lou Dobbs? You could be next, if someone doesn’t like your message.

  • Frank
    March 6, 2008 at 5:53 pm

    The illegals are here fattening the wallets of corrupt employers not your everyday working American. This isn’t a race issue about just whites losing their jobs. It is about blue collar workers of every ethnicity in this country being undercut by cheap illegal labor.
    Because of these millions of mostly Spanish speakers here illegally, English speakers are being discriminated against in the employment arena.
    The SAVE ACT will go after the employers of which the pro-illegals claim they want but yet read the threads in here and the pro-illegals oppose this legislation. Why? Because they only want the employers punished but not the illegals. They are both guilty, so they should both be punished. It would be hypocritical to not want justice served to all involved.
    Most Americans are not lazy. We built the most successful country in the world and we didn’t do it by laziness. There are millions of American blue collar workers in this country and they depend on jobs in construction and other manual labor jobs to survive. But they can’t do it for half the wage it use to pay.

  • Frank
    March 6, 2008 at 8:10 pm

    I agree. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander. Let’s stop all the hate speech and that includes calling law abiding Americans, racists, bigots and xenophobes.
    Then again there is that little thing called “freedom of speech” that is guaranteed to all of us by our Constitution.

  • Evelyn
    March 7, 2008 at 1:15 am

    The Return of Native Americans as Immigrants
    New America Media, Commentary, Louis E.V. Nevaer, Posted: Oct 24, 2007
    The United States is seeing a resurgence of Native Americans in the form of immigrants who are descendents of North America’s indigenous populations. As Native Americans, they are terrifying precisely because they have a moral claim to cross the borders imposed on their lands, writes NAM contributor Louis E.V. Nevaer.
    As the immigration debate rages throughout the nation, the lingering, but unspoken, fear is that illegal immigration from Mexico heralds the return of the Native American.
    “The persistent inflow of Hispanic immigrants threatens to divide the United States into two peoples, two cultures, and two languages,” Samuel Huntington famously argued in Foreign Affairs magazine in March 2004, unleashing a firestorm of protests among U.S. Hispanics and Latinos. “Unlike past immigrant groups, Mexicans and other Latinos have not assimilated into mainstream U.S. culture, forming instead their own political and linguistic enclaves — from Los Angeles to Miami — and rejecting the Anglo-Protestant values that built the American dream.”
    In fact, almost all Mexican immigrants are descendents of North America’s indigenous peoples. As Native Americans, they are terrifying precisely because they have a moral claim to migrate throughout the nation-states imposed on their lands.
    This vilification of immigrants differs from the same sentiment of earlier generations. Previously, Americans debated and settled immigration issues through legislation: the Alien and Sedition Acts of 1798 to keep French and Irish Catholics out, the anti-Papist sentiment that fueled Nativism in the 19th century aimed at Italian, Irish and German immigrants, the xenophobia that culminated in the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882, and the “Gentlemen’s Agreement” of 1907 aimed at the Japanese.
    In “The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order,” Huntington argued that the Mexican state was complementary to the American one, both heirs of Europe and the Enlightenment. This suggests that the cultural conflict he fears is between Western versus Native American.
    He is correct. Native Americans are indifferent to the Western values used to obliterate them, and he recognizes the moral authority with which they challenge the very concept of the nation-state.
    To refuse entry to immigrants from across the oceans, from Europe or Asia, is one thing; to stand against the internal movements of Native American people, Americans find unsettling. They can’t forget that efforts to transplant and expand European civilization in the New World have been the driving force behind the settling of the West in the 19th century and the exclusion of Native Americans from the mainstream of society in the 20th.
    It almost worked: There are no Manhattans on the island of Manhattan, no Coast Miwok in San Francisco.
    “The only good Injun is a dead Injun,” is a line in a Hollywood Western that sums up the nation’s attitude during the 19th century, and it is true that Native Americans were massacred, subjected to forced migrations and deliberately infected with contagious diseases so as to reduce their numbers. It is also true that during the last century, the establishment of reservations created marginalized communities where alcoholism, substance abuse and unemployment demoralized Native Americans into early graves.
    Now, peoples rendered almost irrelevant to American society are thriving in such large numbers that they are once again on the move across the continent.
    The return of the Native American began in earnest in the 1980s, during the Sanctuary Movement in California. Suddenly, people apprehended at the borders spoke neither English nor Spanish. Isa Gucciardi, who managed a translation company in San Francisco, reported getting calls from the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS), as it was called then, with requests for interpreters who spoke “Indian” languages from southern Mexico and Central America. “We had to double the rate, since it was so difficult to find anyone who spoke English and Tzotzil Maya,” she said.
    Despite their best efforts to wipe them out, at the start of the 21st century, Zapotec, Mixtec, Maya and scores of other indigenous peoples have returned.
    They are working in our restaurants, stocking shelves in our stores, building houses and doing our landscaping. They are taking care of our kids while we’re at the office, and giving birth to more Native Americans in our hospitals. They are fueling the economic expansion, contributing to a society that looks upon them with disdain.
    Yet in the second half of 20th century, it was Europeans who looked on Americans with disdain. Walt Whitman celebrated America being one people out of many – “Of every hue and caste am I” – but to the Europeans, hyphenated Americans are mongrels and half-breeds: Irish-Americans, African-Americans, Italian-Americans, Anglo-Americans.
    The realization that Native Americans are crossing the borders that crossed them is alarming even Jesse Jackson. Interviewed on CNN’s “Lou Dobbs Tonight,” he complained that the workers streaming into New Orleans were “outside workers,” since he could not bring himself to say “Native Americans from Latin America.”
    My office in New York is in the Citigroup Center where the only Native American used to be the “Manna-Hata” Indian on the seal stenciled on the flag of the City of New York, standing next to an early Dutch colonist.
    Not anymore. Now when I go to the lobby and downstairs into the subway concourse that connects the Uptown Number 6 train with the E and V subways, there are Maya women, wearing their traditional textiles. Their babies strapped on their backs in shawls, with a blanket made of blue basket, they lay out before them for sale probably the last thing that is actually made in New York City: pirated DVDs of Hollywood movies.
    Having rid ourselves of the Manna-Hata people, we import Native Americans from Mexico.
    Given this demographic trend, it’s only a matter of time before we hear, “Press three to continue in Zapotec.”
    Their is a difference between free speech and hate speech. Hate speech can kill and hurt people.
    As everyone on this forum saw some of you ran crying to Marisa when ‘Hate Speech’ was used on you. You didnt like it.
    Horace, there is a big difference between Marisa and trash like Lou lies Dobbs.
    Marisa doesent use hate speech, she isn’t ‘using immigrants’ to revive a failed TV show like Dobbs.
    Sign the petition to silence the hate speech and lies of Lou lies Dobbs. Go to:
    Boycott Lou

    March 7, 2008 at 1:43 pm

    Here again the definition of hate speech has been twisted to mean if you say anything that does not reflect your point of view and your agenda it is hate. Those that do not agree with the views of Lou Dobbs don’t watch or listen to him anyway, so who are you asking to boycott him? If you insist on denying his freedom of speech just because you disagree with his views, who will you go after next? Hate speech also includes calling American citizens that are demanding the immigration laws be enforced the names you continue to use on them.
    There is no hatered of legal immigrants or even illegal aliens, but there is a hatered for those that continue to thumb their noses at our laws and then expect the laws to be changed to erase their illegal status.

  • Frank
    March 7, 2008 at 3:08 pm

    These so-called Native Americans are actually a mix of indian and white Spaniard (mestizo). Being that they also have white Spanish blood (you know, those white invaders) how can they be considered to be pure Native Indian and have any claims to the U.S.? Mexicans (mestizos) have no moral or legal claim to any part of the U.S. They are Mexican citizens, not U.S. citizens. No non-citizen of this country has the right to cross our borders illegally no matter what happened in history.
    Let’s sign a petition to end all “hate speech” and that includes the hate speech of the pro-illegals against law abiding Americans. We wouldn’t want to be a hypocrite now would we?

  • Horace
    March 7, 2008 at 11:00 pm

    Imagine ceding the right to define hate speech to Evelyn, or her ethnocentric friends. Have you noticed the extreme left is the first to scream when their freedom speech is denied and the first to deny others that same freedom. The sheer arrogance of these self appointed censors is disgusting. I remember the ACLU once defended the KKK’s right to free speech, in spite of it being objectionable to most people. Today, they and their ethnocentric allies are the first to use to rubber stamp their politica opposition as racists, xenophobes, and hate mongers. Their attempts at managing the news and the denial of opposing opinon is reminiscent of the Nazis and Joseph Goebels, Hitler’s propanda minister. The ethnicentrics are getting desperate.

  • Evelyn
    March 8, 2008 at 4:27 pm

    Imagine that, a bigot like Horace who witnessed his friend run to Marisa to cry when a few words of hate speech were returned to him and he got a taste of his own medicine. LOL!
    Now your telling me the only ones complaining (about the lies you guys use to demonize Hispanics) are Hispanics?????? Look around you, the majority of Americas are not Hispanics, and yet the Majority of Americans are in favor of keeping the Hispanic Immigrants in America. They have shown this by their choice in who they are voting for. HA! HA! HA!
    What would make you think those advocating justice are getting desperate?

  • Horace
    March 8, 2008 at 10:18 pm

    The state legislatures are closer to the citizens than congress, and they’re winning in the courts. The shameful amnesty proposals will be held up for years in congress, while new state laws such as those enacted in Oklahoma and Arkansas will have illegal aliens on the run. Many have already given up and returned to Mexico. You have the appearance of victory without its substance. Remember GW Bush? He advocated for the Senate amnesty bill, but failed. The same will occur with Obamarama and Billery. Go ahead, hide your friends in the basements for a few years, and pay their bills out of your own pockets, because soon they will all be fired, either due to the recession or due to their employers fear of the law. Tell your foreign friends to go home and give them a few bucks for a bus ticket.

  • Frank
    March 8, 2008 at 10:26 pm

    Assuming that most Americans are in favor of amnesty because pro-illegal candidates are being elected is very faulty. First of all, it is mostly committed liberals who vote in the Democratic primaries. The Democratic electorate is split on the issue of amnesty; the ones who are for it know that these uneducated and poverty-stricken people have a Socialist mindset and will vote to expand the nanny state (Democrat).
    Republicans, except for the globalists, are dead set against amnesty. So, you’ve got about 90% of Republicans and at least 50% of Dems against amnesty.
    The fact is that immigration is just not the #1 issue for a lot of people, unless they are directly affected by it. Most people are voting on the economy, Iraq, healthcare. So, stating that most Americans are for amnesty for illegal aliens is really coming to a wrong conclusion. This is evident by all of the anti-illegal bills which are being passed on the state and local level. And the more people who find out what the real agenda behind these ethnocentric Latinos is, the less inclined towards amnesty they will be.
    Justice for whom? Certainly not for the American worker who lost his livelihood due to the influx of illegals. Certainly not for all of the victims of crimes committed by some illegals. Certainly not for people who cannot get jobs because they do not know Spanish. No justice for them. Nice to see that one’s affinity lies with foreign nationals and not with one’s fellow Americans and certainly no respect for the rule of law.
    Ya gotta love the far left.

  • Horace
    March 9, 2008 at 9:00 pm

    This is why Frank, myself, et al, do not like illegal immigration. This is why we find ethnocentric advocates like Evelyn so loathsome:
    Immigration crackdowns in Irving, Farmers Branch followed rise in Latino students
    By PATRICK McGEEStar-Telegram staff writer
    2 cities saw big rise in Hispanic enrollments
    In Tarrant, trend has been met with a muted reaction
    The North Texas cities at the epicenter of the local debate about illegal immigration are also home to school districts that in recent years have seen some of the state’s sharpest growth of Hispanic students, according to a Star-Telegram analysis of school data.
    Experts who have tracked the vitriolic debates in Irving and Farmers Branch say the enrollment shifts may help explain the tough immigration measures sought by some in these cities.
    “Very rapid change seems to make a lot of people uncomfortable,” said Michael Teitelbaum, a demographer at the New York-based Alfred P. Sloan Foundation. “You could portray it as racism or xenophobia or fear of the other. But you could also say that people like stability in their lives, and they’re willing to accept gradual change but not rapid change.”
    The Star-Telegram analysis looked at proportional change. For example, the Irving school district is near the top of the list of greatest proportional increases in Hispanic students because the Hispanic portion of its student body jumped from 33 percent in the 1995-96 school year to 63 percent by 2005-06.
    The Irving and Carrollton-Farmers Branch school districts are in the top 5 percent statewide for the greatest proportional increases in Hispanic students from 1995-96 to 2005-06. They are also in the top 30 — out of more than 560 districts analyzed — for greatest percentage-point increases in poor children and in students with limited English proficiency, according to the analysis of data from the Texas Education Agency. Opponents of illegal immigration argue that most illegal immigrants are poor and are bringing the social problems of poverty to America’s cities.
    The Irving and Carrollton-Farmers Branch districts, which lie mostly in Dallas County, saw surges in the numbers of Hispanic and limited-English students in the late 1990s, when, economists believe, illegal border crossings peaked.
    Tarrant County districts such as Castleberry and Everman have also seen substantial proportional increases in Hispanic enrollment. But while Everman Mayor Jim Stephenson cringes at people coming before the City Council with translators, no Tarrant County city has adopted measures meant to discourage illegal immigrants from living there.
    In January, the Farmers Branch City Council approved an ordinance banning illegal immigrants from renting apartments or houses. In Irving, police screen everyone booked into its jail and refer suspected illegal immigrants to federal authorities, causing thousands to be deported.
    ‘Kids that haven’t been in school for three years’
    Irving Superintendent Jack Singley said it’s difficult to bring so many students up to Texas’ standards.
    Mexican government statistics show that only 58 percent of Mexicans 15 and older have some elementary school education. Working with students who come from such a background often requires slowing down and teaching the basics — the very basics, the language itself.
    “We get kids that haven’t been in school for three years, and they usually come from Mexico, by the way, or El Salvador,” Singley said. “Just think about getting a horde of these people in here, and you’re supposed to educate them.”
    Many school districts offer English classes to parents so they can help their children with schoolwork. Teachers certified in bilingual education are in such demand that districts pay them annual stipends of up to $4,000.
    The Castleberry district requires all elementary and middle school teachers to be certified in teaching English as a second language.
    Irving school officials recently returned from a recruiting trip in Puerto Rico in search of more bilingual teachers.
    At Vivian Field Middle School in Farmers Branch, Bettie Rivers’ English as a second language classroom is decorated with both Star Wars posters and prints of Diego Rivera’s paintings — one of many examples of two cultures mixing.
    Rivers spoke to her students in English, and they often answered her in Spanish.
    They went through a list of vocabulary words, struggling with the pronunciation of toast and difference.
    “OK, wait. Number four again,” she said to one student.
    The student looked at her slightly puzzled and responded, “¿Numero cuatro?”
    The students, all of them Hispanic, have been in the U.S. for a year or so.
    Next door, Sarah Sandle’s students have been in the U.S. for two years or more. Accents from Mexico and Central America were still noticeable, but the students showed more skill in pronouncing long English words.
    Schools and city councils
    While city officials can draft ordinances to address their concerns about illegal immigration, a 1982 U.S. Supreme Court ruling requires public schools to educate all children, regardless of immigration status.
    State and federal accountability requirements pressure schools to improve the performance of all students.
    “Although we do it by the law, we do it because philosophically we think it’s the right thing to do,” said Charles Cole, assistant superintendent at Carrollton-Farmers Branch.
    But in the Farmers Branch city government, some have cited the burden on schools as a reason to crack down on illegal immigrants. At a recent City Council meeting, Councilman David Koch said that was partly why he was voting for the latest version of the rental ban.
    “If you don’t think it’s costing every citizen, just stop and think that in the average year it cost approximately $10,000 to educate a student. If there are 100 illegal-immigrant students in this school district in Farmers Branch, that’s over $1 million a year. That’s if it’s just 100” students, he said.
    Actually, it costs the Carrollton-Farmers Branch district $5,196 per student, but economist James Smith says Koch is on the right track.
    Smith, with the RAND Corp., a California think tank, said illegal immigration’s impact on schools — not on hospitals or welfare — is what costs taxpayers so much. He said illegal immigrants are a financial burden on schools because they usually have more children than other families but typically are too poor to pay much in the property taxes that fund schools.
    In addition to the greater number of children, there are extra expenses for educating illegal-immigrant students. For example, the stipends Irving pays to bilingual teachers add up to about $1.5 million annually. It’s a significant sum, but it’s only a fraction of the $215 million budget.
    “I’m not going to say that that $1.5 million is not a lot of money. It is,” Assistant Superintendent Neil Dugger said. “But it is also the price of doing business.”
    Opponents of illegal immigration sometimes focus on the results — or test scores — and find fault that they attribute to illegal immigrants.
    Among those with that view is Tim O’Hare, the Farmers Branch councilman who champions his city’s stance against illegal immigration.
    He said the schools would do better without illegal immigrants, and he pointed to the district’s state rating, which dropped last year from recognized to acceptable because of low science scores among Hispanic students.
    “Is there any doubt in anyone’s mind that if you took the illegal immigrants out that everyone would pass?” he said.
    He said the enrollment shifts revealed in the Star-Telegram analysis provide justification for pushing illegal immigrants out of Farmers Branch.
    “If the city didn’t step up and do something, this trend was going to continue to potentially the point of no return,” O’Hare said.
    ‘White flight’ affecting students and teachers
    Uri Treisman, director of the Charles Dana Center, an education research center at the University of Texas at Austin, said that many school districts overassign less-challenging schoolwork to immigrant and minority students and that eventually this takes over the culture of the school.
    He said good teachers can become part of “white flight” from the schools.
    The Star-Telegram analysis found evidence of Anglos moving away from Hispanic students.
    Every percentage-point increase in a Texas school district’s Hispanic students corresponded to a percentage-point decrease in Anglo students.
    The arrival of Hispanic students did not parallel any change, however, in the African-American makeup of the student body.
    The loss of good teachers does appear to be happening in the Irving and Carrollton-Farmers Branch districts.
    Texas Education Agency figures show that in both districts, the percentages of teachers with master’s degrees and multiple years of experience have dropped in the last 10 years.
    Carrollton-Farmers Branch Superintendent Annette Griffin said she doesn’t want teachers who don’t want to work with the district’s changing population.
    She said she and her staff are committed to getting results with whatever students they have.
    A family of illegal immigrants living in Irving said they have benefited from such commitment from the schools.
    This, along with a good job market, makes them want to endure the anti-illegal- immigrant measures and stay here.
    They spoke on the condition that their last name not be used.
    Gabriella, 35, said she took some of the English classes that Irving schools offered adults and said she’s glad that her children can speak English fluently.
    She said that they could use their new language in the tourist industry in Mexico if they ever get deported — but that the jobs, schools and opportunity make them want to stay here.
    “What we are looking for is a better future for our children,” Gabriella said.
    “We do not have any plans to return to Mexico.”
    Notes on the numbers
    The numbers provided to the Star-Telegram from the Texas Education Agency vary slightly from numbers that may be found on the TEA Web site.
    School districts with fewer than 100 Hispanic students were not included in the analysis to avoid skewing the numbers with proportional changes that are large but represent too few students to signify meaningful change.
    The numbers represent the changes for one decade, ending with the 2005-06 school year. These were the populations of Farmers Branch and Irving when the cities decided to take strong actions against illegal immigration.
    School districts’ boundaries do not always coincide with cities’, but unlike U.S. Census Bureau figures, their enrollment figures offer year-to-year comparisons because they are updated annually.
    PATRICK McGEE, 817-685-3806

  • Horace
    March 11, 2008 at 7:27 pm

    FAIR responds to defamation by SPLC and to claims that anti-Hispanci violence is on the rise due to open discussion of illegal immigration in the media. The despicable Peter Schey is up to his old tricks at distorting the truth, which is that the hate crime rate for Hispanics has fallen.
    “The Southern Poverty Law Center Manipulates Crime Data and Terminology in Last-Ditch Attempt to Stop the Immigration Debate
    March 10, 2008
    (Washington DC) Today the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) issued a misleading release announcing a significant increase in the number of hate groups and hate crimes over the last few years. The release then suggests that our national debate over immigration reform has fueled the increase in both. Offering no criteria as to what constitutes a hate group, manipulating the data for self-serving purposes, and then making broad, unsubstantiated conclusions, this latest release from the SPLC constitutes one of its most reckless charges to date. It is calculated to be inflammatory, tarnish the reputation of leading immigration reform groups, and shut down meaningful public policy debate about immigration reform.
    When examined responsibly, the FBI hate crime data show a dramatically different story than the one the SPLC portrays. First, in order to suggest an artificially large increase in the raw number of hate crimes, the SPLC selects 2003 as its base year, one of lowest years on record for hate crimes against Hispanics. If one compares the number of hate crimes between 1995 (the earliest report available on the FBI’s website) and 2006 (the most recent statistical year available), one would see that the number of hate crimes has increased only 17 percent.
    But even this is not the whole story. The SPLC conveniently forgets to index the raw hate crime data with the population, a step always taken by the FBI to more accurately depict an increase or decrease in crime. Thus, when one indexes a 17 percent increase in hate crimes against Hispanics with a 67 percent increase in the Hispanic population between 1995 and 2006, it becomes clear that the rate of hate crimes against Hispanics has in fact dropped dramatically – by about 40 percent.
    This reduction in the rate of hate crimes against Hispanics is even more apparent when one considers that the number of law enforcement agencies that participate in the FBI’s hate crime data collection program increased 33 percent between 1995 and 2006. Between 2003 and 2006 alone, the number of law enforcement agencies participating in the FBI’s hate crime data collection program increased by over 700.
    Finally, the SPLC claims that there has been substantial growth in the number of ‘hate groups’ since 2000. However, the SPLC provides no definition of a ‘hate group’ and offers no objective criteria that it uses to classify organizations as such. The SPLC appears to think that it can stick this label onto any organization it wishes, including long-standing, highly-regarded immigration reform organizations such as the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) without being challenged as to its motivations or methodology. FAIR is confident the media and the American people will see through the SPLC’s deceitful tactics.
    ‘There is no level of hate crime that is acceptable — period,’ says Dan Stein, President of FAIR. ‘However, the SPLC’s calculated abuse of the term ‘hate group’ and manipulation of hate crime data for self-serving political interests is an affront to hate crime victims and those who advocate on their behalf. The SPLC manipulates data to reach deceitful conclusions, tosses the term ‘hate group’ at highly-respected organizations like FAIR, and then mixes the two in an attempt to stop our national debate over immigration reform. But this is consistent with the SPLC’s growing practice of making allegations with no factual basis, no criteria and sadly, no one challenging their increasing habit of playing fast and loose with the facts. Unfortunately, it is the American people who suffer most through this irresponsible behavior.'”
    I know you’ll call this a lie, Evelyn and Laura, but it’s true.

  • Evelyn
    March 11, 2008 at 11:47 pm

    Gee, thanks for the compliment that you racists find me loathsome because I dont want to be a racist like you guys. LOL!
    Would I be guessing correct that the reason you knew I would be calling FAIR a liar is because you already knew they are liars?

  • Frank
    March 12, 2008 at 8:32 am

    Horace, thanks for posting the facts that the SPLC has absolutely no credibility.

  • Evelyn
    March 12, 2008 at 4:56 pm

    Pro Inmigrant
    Tuesday, January 29, 2008
    Fair (Federation for American Immigration Reform) Anti Immigrants Group. What part of justice do they practice? What kind of rule or reform they want Implemented to any Immigrants rather than demonized them? Do we really want neo-Nazi groups helping shape our federal public policy on immigration? The Federation for American Immigration Reform has ties to racists and a long record of bigotry.
    Remembrances of the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. give us good reason to celebrate.
    But in Arizona, King’s message often is lost as hate crimes increase and unvarnished hatred toward Mexicans and other Latinos – whether U.S. citizens or illegal immigrants – has grown more and more malignant in recent years.
    Arizonans’ attitudes and behaviors have become nearly as hideous as the crimes against black people that were so common during King’s lifetime, especially in the deep South.
    Granted, we’ve come a long way since King’s famous “I Have a Dream” speech in 1963. But we have not come far enough.
    The federal government’s failure to reform immigration policy has created a vacuum that neo-Nazi and other hate groups have been happy to fill Racist groups, violence climbing.
    The number of hate groups in the U.S. has increased by 40 percent since 2000, the Southern Poverty Law Center reported Dec. 7. FBI statistics show a 35 percent rise in hate crimes against Latinos since 2003.
    And for anti-immigrant zeal, Arizona is ground zero, says Heidi Beirich of the SPLC Intelligence Project.
    “Multiple vigilante factions are operating on the border, plus you’ve got politicians like (Maricopa County Sheriff) Joe Arpaio who want to unleash the dogs,” she says. ” . . . You’ve got a very active neo-Nazi scene, some of whom have been showing up at (anti-immigrant) protests armed.”
    Hate groups shaping our policy.
    The movement has spread like a prairie fire, with xenophobic groups and the Lou Dobbs types in American culture fanning the flames with false information
    And then there’s FAIR – which isn’t.
    The Federation for American Immigration Reform has ties to racists and a long record of bigotry, yet its members are regularly asked to testify before Congress and to comment for the media, SPLC reports.
    Having been lent an undeserved aura of legitimacy, FAIR was a key force in scuttling the promising immigration reform package last June that President Bush supported.
    Consider that FAIR’s founder runs a racist publishing company and has compared immigrants to “bacteria”; has employed white supremacists in key positions; promoted racist conspiracy theories; and accepted more than $1 million from the Pioneer Fund, a foundation devoted to eugenics and proving a link between race and IQ, SPLC research shows.
    Do we really want neo-Nazi groups helping shape our federal public policy on immigration?
    Or do we want to uphold the basic American values of fairness and justice for all?
    Salvage basic human decency
    Today is a good time to remember King’s philosophy that human rights denied to one person is human rights denied to all.
    “These people aren’t objects,” Beirich says. “They’re human beings – whether coming across the desert or fellow citizens under suspicion because they have dark skin.”
    Decent Americans must look beyond the hysteria-inducing babble to the facts, including the economic, social and cultural contributions that immigrants have made to our nation.
    Any ire among U.S. citizens, illegal immigrants or both should be directed at the federal government’s massive policy failure.
    But until that is corrected, the only way we can stop the tide of racial hatred is by standing up against the xenophobia, the ill-founded fears and the Machiavellian maneuvers by the groups that foster divisiveness.
    That is the required work of all decent Americans.
    Sign The Petition
    End Immigrant Bashing

  • Frank
    March 12, 2008 at 7:44 pm

    There are no anti-immigrant groups and there is no immigrant bashing going on. This is about illegal aliens. They are two different groups. How can someone who constantly accuses others of lying and posting supposedly articles filled with lies, do likewise? Hypocricy at it’s finest! As Horace said the SPLC is a fake. This has nothing to do with the Civil Rights Era. The victims back then were legal citizens. This is not the same scenario and illegal aliens are afforded basic human rights and that is all they are entitled to in this country.

  • Evelyn
    March 14, 2008 at 3:37 am

    Civil Rights are for all people within the borders of this country according to the constution, not just legal citizens.
    Of course FAIR is going to try to smear SPLC as a lie, did anyone think they would try to defend themselves legally by claiming slander HA! That trash has no legal claim, they have been busted big time!

  • Frank
    March 14, 2008 at 3:43 pm

    Illegal aliens are only afforded basic human rights in this country and that is it!

  • Liquidmicro
    March 14, 2008 at 10:10 pm

    The Preamble to the Constitution:
    We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
    Please Evelyn, show us where it states, “Civil Rights are for all people within the borders of this country according to the constution, not just legal citizens.”
    Especially the “not just legal citizens” part.
    What I see, and so does everybody else, is the following, “to ourselves and our Posterity”. “Ourselves and our Posterity” means That means, “Citizens”, NOT “non-citizens”, NOT “Illegal/Undocumented/Dishonest/Illicit/Illegitimate/Banned/Prohibited/Unlawful Aliens/Strangers/Foreigners/Immigrants”

  • Sharon
    July 11, 2008 at 11:24 pm

    Thank you for information!

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