Latina Lista: News from the Latinx perspective > Palabra Final > Immigration > Romney Wants to Penalize Cities Declared Immigrant Sanctuaries But Forgets His Own Grandparents Fled to Mexico for That Very Reason

Romney Wants to Penalize Cities Declared Immigrant Sanctuaries But Forgets His Own Grandparents Fled to Mexico for That Very Reason

LatinaLista — It seems that Governor Bill Richardson isn’t the only presidential candidate with a Mexican-born parent.
Republican candidate, Mitt Romney, can technically claim Latino heritage as well. His father, George Romney, was born in Colonia Dublán, Galeana, in the Mexican state of Chihuahua.

George Romney, father of Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney.
The elder Romney was born in a Mormon colony on Mexican soil that his parents had fled to, for lack of a better word — sanctuary.

That’s why, it’s rather ironic that Mitt, being the son of a man whose family fled to Mexico for sanctuary reasons, would authorize a plan to slash funding for American cities that declare themselves to be immigration sanctuary cities.
Mitt’s campaign is mailing Iowa Republicans a mailer explaining his plan. One quote from the mailer says:

“When America’s major cities — like New York, San Francisco and many others — adopt sanctuary city policies, they serve as magnets for millions of illegal immigrants to cross the border and take advantage of these legal protections.”

Funny how history has a way of repeating itself in the most unexpected way.
According to the book, Mormon Colonies in Mexico, published in 1938,

In the 1880s, as a precondition to granting Utah statehood, the United States government enacted laws to put a stop to the Mormon practice of polygamy.
Those who continued to practice this principle were forced underground as federal marshals roamed the territory searching for “polygs.” In response, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints looked for safe places to send its members; many found refuge across the border in Mexico. 

The book recounts how the Mormon polygamists soon had grown so tired of the constant pressure from the US federal government that several Mormon leaders discussed “surrendering at the same time, overwhelming the government with the proposition of jailing them all.”

Instead, several hundred families made their way to Mexico and established several colonies. The book further states that local Mexican citizens and state officials in the state of Chihuahua tried to drive the polygamists out but they were spared by (drum roll) the Mexican federal government.
The Mormons lived in relative peace with their Mexican neighbors until the Mexican Revolution. Then their settlements were overtaken by the rebels and in 1912 the decision was made to send the women and children back to the United States. At that time, the Mormons numbered 4,000.

Very few if any of the Mormon population in Mexico ever took a decided interest in Mexican politics. They were content to be left alone to look after their own affairs, their chief aim being to build up and beautify their homes and subdue the wilderness that their children and unborn generations might come into inheritances of which they could be proud. At the time of the exodus, their aim had been well nigh achieved and the thought of being permanently uprooted and the earnings of a lifetime left to others had never entered the minds of these industrious and frugal people. Always, they had indulged the belief that Mexico was to be their permanent abode and with that thought in view they had builded well.

Substitute Mormon for Mexican/Latino, reverse the countries where people sought refuge and we see that history does repeat itself.
That the son of a Mexican-born Mormon would so easily forget or ignore his own family history is testament to the fact of how anti-(Mexican) immigrant hysteria has a stranglehold on common sense and has turned a humanitarian issue into a volatile political football.
If Governor Romney’s grandparents had never gone to Mexico but had instead been imprisoned by US federal marshals, it’s a safe assumption that Romney’s father may never have been born.
By virtue of the fact that his grandparents crossed the US-Mexico border for sanctuary and the economic freedom to build a life for their family underscores the reason why governments must create dignified, reasonable and fair immigration policies, especially with neighbor countries.
It’s all about humanity and the human instinct to survive, prosper and live life with a purpose for living.

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  • Daniel Maldonado
    November 8, 2007 at 12:00 am

    so, being born in MX makes you a latino? now i see why you call yourself a Chicana.
    do you know who the illegal is? you are. youre illegally using the XICANA NAME.

  • Liquidmicro
    November 8, 2007 at 1:08 am

    “Substitute Mormon for Mexican/Latino, reverse the countries where people sought refuge and we see that history does repeat itself.”
    Lets run with this shall we…. From your own story “The Mormons lived in relative peace with their Mexican neighbors until the Mexican Revolution. Then their settlements were overtaken by the rebels and in 1912 the decision was made to send the women and children back to the United States. At that time, the Mormons numbered 4,000.”
    I am reading that they were sent back to the USA, after having lived there, so to go with your history repeating itself, and substituting Mormon for Mexican/Latino, we can see that they were repatriated. The same should be done today, you know, repeating history and all.

  • yave begnet
    November 8, 2007 at 6:36 am

    Liquidmicro, presumably the decision to send back the women and children was made by leaders of the Mormon community in the face of local antagonism in a time of civil war. This was not forcible repatriation by the Mexican government as you seem to assume. Instead, as Marisa pointed out, the federal government protected the settlers from the locals.
    Also, there are still polygamists living in Chihuahua.
    Hopefully, Romney will take a cue from the failure of the GOP nationally this week to make electoral gains on a purported waver of anti-immigrant sentiment. He’s got to do it now to win the primary, but as on so many other issues, the GOP base is so far out of touch with mainstream America that the positions Romney takes now will come back to haunt him in the general if he gets the nomination. For most voters, immigration is not as critical an issue as the GOP has been trying to portray it. However, by singlemindedly focusing on it as they have been, they will perform the useful function of throwing the great bulk of the Latino vote to the Democrats. Well played!

  • Frank
    November 8, 2007 at 7:47 am

    Were these Mormons considered to be illegal aliens in Mexico? If so, why weren’t they deported right away?
    If I had a grandfather who robbed a bank, am I supposed to approve of what he did just because he is related to me? Am I supposed to forgive all bank robbers and let them all out of jail because my grandfather was a bank robber? Do you see how ridiculous your agument is, Marisa?
    yave, no the Republican party is in tune with what the majority of Americans want not the other way around. We want secure borders and for the employers to fire and stop hiring illegal aliens so that they will go home. You are on the wrong side of the fence on this issue and immigration is going to be a critical issue in the coming election.

    November 8, 2007 at 8:28 am

    I enjoy history as much as the next guy, but I do not live in a world based on what my ancestors did over 100 years ago. My ancestors (Scotch-Irish) went through a lot of hard times and prejudices, but I do not dwell on those times as a defense for what is happening today. If you want to continue dredging up the past to resolve issues of today, then look back no further than President Eisenhower and his solution for illegal immigration. Maybe history will repeat itself with another wise President doing the right thing for American citizens.

  • yave begnet
    November 8, 2007 at 8:32 am

    Were these Mormons considered to be illegal aliens in Mexico? If so, why weren’t they deported right away?
    If I had a grandfather who robbed a bank, am I supposed to approve of what he did just because he is related to me?
    First, the Mormons were fleeing persecution from the U.S. federal government. They had first been kicked out of New York, Ohio, Missouri, and Illinois, and once they settled in Utah (fighting with and marginalizing the Native Americans there)–which was then part of Mexico, but not for long–the federal government tried to drive them out of the U.S. entirely by jailing the leaders of the church.
    So, to recap, these U.S. citizens (although many of them had only recently immigrated from Europe and may have had uncertain citizenship–but nobody was keeping close count back then) settled on land the Spanish government had stolen from the Native Americans, but the U.S. then stole it from Mexico and tried to evict its own citizens, who then fled to Mexico, where most of them were then persecuted back into the U.S.
    All clear now?
    In short, today’s legal/illegal construct made little sense in the context of 19th century migration in the Western U.S.

  • E
    November 8, 2007 at 8:44 am

    Hey haven’t been in your website in a while and see that you have the same people (read Frank, etc) trolling around. These self described red, white and blue “Americans” (never mind that their ancestors might have come from someplace fleeing famine, bad reputations, etc) with their bad spelling and horrible grammar telling everyone to go back to their countries and to learn English… ja ja
    Don’t this people (read Frank, Eyes of Texas, etc) have a life? jobs? I see your website and there is comment after comment from them.
    To all of you that say “oh, it’s not about you being Latino/Hispanic… its about you being illegal or not… I’m not a racist”
    1. How can you tell a legal vs. undocumented apart? Its not like we have “Legal Permanent Resident” or “Citizen” stamped in our foreheads…
    2. How would you recommend people who treat Latinos/Hispanics like sh*t (ex. me, I look very Indian Latina… yes, I do wear hoop earrings, my fault) because they are thought to be “illegal” to tell them apart?
    TA.. TA.. that’s all, I won’t comment for a while because I do have a life and a job… Just wanted to give my two “centavos”(ohh my.. a word in Spanish?… I just destroyed a bit of our American, red, white and blue integrity right there.. I should go to my nearest library and sign up for ESL and civics classes right now, eat a big piece of apple pie).

    November 8, 2007 at 9:15 am

    Not that it’s anyones business, but I do have a very fulfilled life and a very well paying job. My comments are not directed towards any race of people, but towards all illegal aliens in the U.S. It’s only because I am on a Hispanic blog that my comments are taken on a personal level by others here. I am also on this blog because, for most part, it is informative, civil and fair-minded. Also because Latina Lista has a reputation as the best blog for discussions with people from all sides of an issue. I will forever hold my ground on law enforcement, borders, language and culture, no matter what category anyone chooses to place me in.

  • Frank
    November 8, 2007 at 9:48 am

    As I said the past has nothing to do with the present whether we be talking about my past ancestor’s actions or what immigration laws there were or were not in the past vs today’s laws.
    The U.S. did not steal land from Mexico. A war was fought, a treaty signed and $15 million paid for some lands and debts forgiven to Mexico. There was also the Gasden Purchase after that.
    You can’t help but notice how the pro-illegals, especially the reconquista ones keep dragging up the past and living in it even though all of the people living back then are dead and gone.

    November 8, 2007 at 10:02 am

    A little something for “E”. Your sarcasm is cute but you seem to lack a full understanding of the issues being presented here. It is not a place for personal attacks, but a place for honest discussion about illegal immigration and what’s to be done about the millions of illegal aliens, of all races, currently in this country. Your opinions are welcome and hope to find you here again with some real ideas to resolve the illegal immigration issue this nation is now facing. Things can not remain the way they are, no matter what side of the issue you are on.

  • Liquidmicro
    November 8, 2007 at 1:38 pm

    Yave, I understand what you are saying, but the the words presume and assume, pretty much mean the same thing here. It is not clear, by what was stated, as to who sent them back to the US, and I am sure that since Mexico has Birthright Citizenship (Jus Soli) that some of those that were sent back were in fact Mexican Citizens. The other question that arises due to the article is, what happened to the Mormon men?
    “By virtue of the fact that his grandparents crossed the US-Mexico border for sanctuary and the economic freedom to build a life for their family underscores the reason why governments must create dignified, reasonable and fair immigration policies, especially with neighbor countries.”
    This particular paragraph was not proven in the article, by which it states an ‘economic freedom’, they had that in the USA, the fled the USA due to polygamy, which according to US law is a no-no, back then and still to this day.
    In the 1820s a man named Joseph Smith started the Mormon religion in New York state. Smith based the religion on what he said were god’s words to the ancient people of America. Many people became members of the Mormon church. Other people laughed at some of their different beliefs. This led to trouble. Smith had to move his people many times. For a while, they settled in Illinois state, in a town they built and called Nauvoo. The church split when Joseph Smith said that Mormons could have more than one wife. The split led to violence and great public opposition to the Mormons. Smith was arrested and put in jail. A mob attacked the jail and killed Smith and his brother. The governor of Illinois ordered the Mormons to leave.
    Brigham Young became the new leader of the Mormons. He told his people that he had seen their new home in a dream. He said it was a wide, beautiful valley in the west. He said he would recognize it when he saw it. The Mormons left Illinois in the spring of 1846. There were more than 15,000 people, and many wagons and farm animals. The trip west was hard. Many of the people died. After months of slow travel, they stopped to make their winter camp. Reportedly the findings of the expeditions of General John C. Fremont in 1844 and 1845 were instrumental in attracting the Mormons into this domain of Indians and fur trappers.
    Explorers visited the camp. They told Brigham Young about a great salt lake in a wide valley on the western side of the Rocky Mountains. From the way they described it, Young believed it was the valley of his dream. He started to move his people toward the Great Salt Lake as soon as the winter snows melted. They arrived in the summer of 1847. Brigham Young looked out over the valley. “This,” he said, “is the right place.” The Mormons wasted no time. Two hours after arriving, they began to prepare the ground for planting. The lake water was too salty to use. So they built a system of canals to bring water down from the mountains. The first few years were difficult. Cold weather and insects destroyed their crops. Yet the Mormons continued to work hard to make their settlement a success. They refused to think of leaving.
    After years of persecution in the Midwest they realized the advantages of self-government, but the land they had come to belonged to Mexico. In 1848 the United States won the Mexican War, and the Treaty of Guadalupe-Hidalgo was signed which ceded Utah to the United States.
    At first, the Mormons were ruled only by the laws of their church and by their leader.
    Thomas Kane arrived in Salt Lake City, the territorial capital, early in 1858. He found that the Mormons had decided not to fight. Instead, they were preparing to search for a new home. They talked of moving to Mexico or perhaps to an island in the South Pacific.

  • Liquidmicro
    November 8, 2007 at 1:50 pm

    In the early autumn of 1875, Young sent Jones and five elders on horseback to Mexico. During the 3,000-mile trip, the missionaries stopped frequently in New Mexico and Arizona, preaching the gospel and converting Indians. Jones and his team arrived in Franklin, Texas, (El Paso) in 1876, crossing through present-day Juárez. They were warmly welcomed by Mexican officials.
    Meanwhile, Young urged Jones to find settlement locations as tensions were increasing in Utah. “Governor Ochoa agreed to sell land to the Mormons to colonize”, and in 1885, Church President John Taylor explored the area. Church officials selected Casas Grandes, a valley in the state of Chihuahua, as the place to begin settlement. On May 15, 1885, the Mormons began their exodus from the United States into Mexico.
    The above “Governor Ochoa agreed to sell land to the Mormons to colonize”, the Mexican Gov’t. selling land to these people, is a little different than just letting them in to live, as the Mormons were wanting to colonize, create their own Gov’t., and pretty much their own country.

  • Horace
    November 8, 2007 at 6:10 pm

    Give it up Marisa. No one is going to change their mind on illegal immigration by your citing rehash of what happened 132 years ago. This is a far differnet nation from that time, with welfare and unfunded mandate obligations that would devistate our economy and the well-being of the actual taxpayers of this country. Adoping 20 million new welfare recipients doesn’t make sense to anyone with good judgment.

  • adriana
    November 8, 2007 at 8:51 pm

    I blogged about this a few months ago. 🙂
    Thank you for raising this point again. People need to be reminded of this own guy’s past. The irony is that his family fled so that they could practice a very controversial way of life, but today’s immigrants to the US simply want to make a living.

  • Frank
    November 8, 2007 at 9:56 pm

    adriana, so Mitt Romney is responsible for his grandfather’s actions?
    You don’t enter a country illegally no matter what the reason is.

  • Evelyn Chavez
    November 8, 2007 at 11:20 pm

    The past has everything to do with the present especially when every thing about the past is a lie, and we have people making comments like, “the U.S. did not steal land from Mexico” My question to you is, to which indigenous group in Mexico did the U.S. give the 15 million? Another comment is,” my ancestors came here from Europe, but they came legally.” My question is, to which indigenous nation did they apply? Don’t tell me they came in legally thru Ellis Island mambo jumbo, because the truth is that they are part of the UNPROVOKED ILLEGAL INVASION of this continent by the CRIMINAL ILLEGAL EUROPEAN ALIENS who murdered 95% of the thriving indigenous population of 70-100 million indigenous people.
    Those able to survive this massive crime spree were stripped of their land, culture, language,and spirituality, relegated to 2nd class citizens, and forced to live on reservations, or shoved to live in nations later turned into 3rd world countries by 1st nation greed. To add insult to injury the U.S. gov. built arbitrary borders for their convenience with total disregard for the indigenous people.

  • Evelyn Chavez
    November 8, 2007 at 11:59 pm

    The Re publican’s favorite weapon of mass distraction= IMMIGRATION
    Shameless politicians find it easy to denounce Illegal Immigration as the cause of all the nations problems-including linking it to the war on terror. Today’s immigrants, especially those of Hispanic descent are being lambasted,and labeled as thieves, crooks,and disease carriers. This anti-immigrant campaign is very similar to that conducted against Jews by Dr. Joseph Gobbels.”Minister for Public Enlightenment and Propaganda”in Nazi Germany.
    The U.S. has become an economic giant due to years of aggressive economic exploitation and extortion of Mexican and Latin American resources. The U.S. gov. has colluded with corrupt leaders (propelled to these positions with help from U.S. gov.) in Mexico to exploit natural resources and than look the other way when these thieving leaders have pocketed profits, and invested the money back into western banks rendering their citizens more poor and helpless.
    If the U.S. wants to reduce migration from these third world countries they created, they must make a genuine effort to “reverse” the effects of colonialism and the corruption they have been a part of, and assist these nations to be self sufficient.

  • adriana
    November 9, 2007 at 5:34 am

    Frank, I never said that Mitt Romney should be responsible for his grandfather’s actions. You might want to ask that question of undocumented children though since you think that they should be punished/penalized for their parents’ actions. I find a lot of irony in your question given your recent rantings on children of the undocumented.
    Mitt Romney should be a little more sympathetic to the immigrant cause, given the fact that polygamy was and I believe, still is, illegal in Mexico. Why are “religious” people like this allowed to seek sanctuary over there?

  • Frank
    November 9, 2007 at 7:25 am

    adriana, of course the children of illegal aliens are not responsbible for their parent’s actions but neither should they be rewarded for it. They aren’t being punished, they just aren’t being rewarded and neither should their parents be rewarded by giving those kids citizenship because ultimtely that will give the parents citizenship through them.
    No, Romney needs to follow our laws, especially since he is a presidential candidate. We can’t afford to be compassionate to the 12-30 million illegal aliens in this country by legalizing them. It sends a wrong signal too just like it did in 1986.
    I have no idea what Mexico’s policies are on many things. But we aren’t them, we have our own policies.

  • Frank
    November 9, 2007 at 7:49 am

    Evelyn, you are so far off base on your thinking, I hardly know where to start.
    The land purchased for $15 million belong to Mexico at the time. Therefore the money was given to the Mexican government. Thats the way it works. It doesn’t go to the citizenry it goes to the government that governs it.
    The first pilgrims that came over here were welcomed by the indigenous. It turned bad eventually. What about those Spanish ancestors of yours? They came over in the same way, did the same things and you and yours even speak their language today, lol. Why don’t you want to talk about that? Once the U.S. was established as a country, we made immigration laws. Stop living in the past. We cannot change it and the people who lived back then are all dead now. Most Americans today were born here, they are natives now. Historically throughout this whole planet, wars have been fought over land. Deal with it and stop living in the past and beating up on those of us alive today who had nothing to do with the past.
    Don’t call illegal aliens, “immigrants” because they are not. Some commit other crimes, some do not, some come carrying deseases and some do not. Some are already criminals before they came here, some were not. No one is saying they are a one size fits all catagory. That is just lies spread by the pro-illegals. But what is basically true is that they all broke our immigration laws and illegal immigration is not good for our country. No one is saying that illegal immigration is the cause of all of our woes in this country but it certainly is in the top 5.
    As far as our government goes, you will note that our politician’s popularity ratings are in the toilet. Most Americans do not agree with many of our government’s foreign policies but you see we are not allowed to vote on those issues. So don’t hold the American people responsible for them and ask them to keep the tidal wave of illegal aliens coming into our country because of it. We are supposed to be a government for the people and by the people but we haven’t been for some time now. We are going to throw the traitors out of office and take our country back. When are Mexicans going to do the same thing in their country?

    November 9, 2007 at 11:16 am

    Have no fear, the Save Act is here. True, it is spread over a four year period, but at least it will eventually solve many of the issues contained in this blog. It seems our elected officials have finally come around to the realization that the only true resolve is enforcement of the law. Now if we could only get that damn fence up.

  • Horace
    November 9, 2007 at 7:52 pm

    “The first pilgrims that came over here were welcomed by the indigenous.”
    This is not quite true. The Pilgrims and the Amerindians were at best circumspect in their relationship. The Pilgrims being outnumbered hundreds to one, and having great fear of being overwhelmed and the Indians suspicious but desirous of trading opportunities. In the end, both sides resorted to acting in their self interests by allying themselves against common threats, other tribes. Those that would villify either culture would be wrong. Indians were far from innocent. Indian tribe fought Indian tribe, and tortured their enemies without mercy, burning their victims alive and slicing them to pieces while they were in the same state. And the Pilgrims were not the Indians main threat to their existance. At the time of the Pilgrims arrival, much of the Indian population had been devistated by disease, likely caused by contact with French traders. Entire tribes had been wiped out, and the Pilgrims found much of the land of Massachusetts cleared and amenable to planting. The bottom line is that the original motives of the Pilgrims was not to subjugate or steal land, but to purchase it at a price agreeable to both parties. This worked out for a long time before both sides resorted to greed. Settlers eventually broke the law by failing to follow the colony’s laws on fair trade with the Indians, and some tribes sold their land for a pittance to gain implements of war to fight other tribes. Greed overcame both sides and corrupted both.
    Read “Mayflower” by Nathaniel Philbrick. It’s one of the best recent books on the subject.

  • Deport Lou Dobbs
    November 10, 2007 at 7:08 am

    Little frank is at it again:
    “adriana, of course the children of illegal aliens are not responsbible for their parent’s actions but neither should they be rewarded for it. They aren’t being punished, they just aren’t being rewarded…”
    How is giving innocent children an opportunity to further their education and become productive members of our society or a chance to serve in the milatary and potentially sacrifice their lives a reward? Seems mean-spirited to me.

  • Frank
    November 10, 2007 at 8:10 am

    Dobbs, these children are Mexican citizens not American citizens. It is Mexico’s responsiblity to educate them.
    Another reason for putting our foot down is because it encourages more parents to bring their kids here illegally and benefit from our education system. Also the Dream Act would have allowed these kids to sponsor their parents for citizenship. You know, the ones who broke our immigration laws in the first place.
    We must not set a presedence in this country for rewarding illegal acts by the parents.

  • Horace
    November 10, 2007 at 9:38 am

    “How is giving innocent children an opportunity to further their education and become productive members of our society or a chance to serve in the milatary and potentially sacrifice their lives a reward? Seems mean-spirited to me.”
    You know what’s unfair? It’s unfair that tens of millions of good people in Africa and Asia go hungry every night, and that they rarely get anywhere near the education of Americans. The world is an unfair and an unequal place, and it’s not going to change overnight. It’s unfair that current illegal foreign nationals be given U.S benefits, as this would not be applied across the board for everyone who would come here. Ask an African waiting in Somalia to be selected in the immigration lottery whether its fair to him that Mexicans who cross the border without our permission come here regardless. Acceding to your demands for illegal alien Hispanics would result in special privileges that no other foreigners would be given. There are tens of millions in other lands that would like to do the same, but will never be given the chance, because we simply do not have room to accommodate them. The so-called “earned-citizenship” is nothing but a bone thrown to ethnocentrists for their “own people”. This is not what America is about. You may not like the idea that this country won’t bend its laws to your will, but doing so for political purposes is contrary to our nation’s philosphopy of being a nation of law and not men. It was never intended that our legal system please everyone, but it was intended to be fair. This principal is taught in Civics 101, which you likely slept through.

  • BastaYa
    November 10, 2007 at 6:15 pm

    Interesting how this article completely omits whether or not this group moved to Mexico in accordance with Mexican law or not. If they moved there legally they had no right to be expelled. If they moved there illegally Mexico had every right to deport them.
    The Mormon church no longer allows polygamy. There are non-reccognized sects that, to this day, that still practice it in the USA. Along with this practice goes the tradition of arranged marriages of underage girls to elder men. US law does not allow this. If these sects do not want to abide by our laws — I welcome them moving to any country that will accept them. News flash — 21st century: USA does not allow polygamy. Mexico does not allow polygamy. Mexico (swiftly and severely) enforces its immigration laws. The USA is in the process of beginning to do the same.
    “The elder Romney was born in a Mormon colony on Mexican soil that his parents had fled to, for lack of a better word – sanctuary.
    Oh Puhleeeeeeze…. This is yet more deliberately misleading carefully chosen verbiage. The origin “sanctuary” comes from a time when the punishment of those convicted of a crime was swift. If the individual could make it into the church — their life was spared as long as they had one hand on the alter — to give him / her time to get themselves right with God. There is no history of sanctuary in the USA.
    This article is a thinly veiled attempt to not only support “sanctuary cities” but also to support the current “sanctuary movement” taking hold in our churches and to add the word “sanctuary” into the ever increasing vocabulary of PC double-speak. We now have clergy preaching to their congregations to violate the law. Church properties are are being used to harbor and shelter illegal aliens.
    The separation of church and state: The state does not involve itself in church matters. The church does not involve itself in political matters. This county does have a history of civil disobedience — of those that are willing to break the law and accept the legal consequences of breaking the law. Any church that supports this sanctuary movement should loose its tax exempt status along with any of the millions upon millions of dollars that the Bush administration has funneled to faith based organizations.
    The “sanctuary” movement started in a store front chicago “church”. Ms Arellano was deported to Mexico after claiming sanctuary in that church for over a year. This is what she and the organization behind this movement has to say:
    Emma Lozano, presidente Pueblo sin Fronteras
    Elvira Arellano, presidente La Familia Latina Unida
    “The popular coalition has made great gains. We have
    shown that we are not only for protecting the rights of the
    undocumented but we are struggling for Latinos to become a voice for
    justice for all of Latin America. We have supported self-determination
    and opposed assimilation into this nation’s individualistic,
    imperialistic values. We have taught that our people did not come here
    because of the American Dream but because of what the American
    nightmare did to our countries of origin. We have
    asserted that our demand to be here and to be fully enfranchised here
    is a right not a privilige and a destiny of our people to transform
    this nation. ”
    If the churches want to become politically active in this — where is the activism to address the issues south of our borders that are the root cause of third world governments exporting their poor into this country by the millions.
    The reason some religions condone polygamy is to increase their membership through high birthrates. Many religions do not allow birth control for the same reason. We now have churches utilizing their churches and clergy to instruct their members to break our laws in order to increase their coffers and congregations.

  • Crock
    November 10, 2007 at 9:43 pm

    Well well well a bit of history, just ask a Mexican who was Henry Lane Wilson and the Military Coup of La Ciudadela.
    “Ignorance simplifies ANY problem.” — R. Lucke

  • Horace
    November 11, 2007 at 6:21 pm

    Absolutlely, Crock, I’m certain that past offenses to Mexicans will certainly play a role in the coming political storm on the question of illegal immigration. Americans will start listening to those who will use history to disparage their heritage and in fits of remorse will commit acts of contrition that will result in the surrender of their sovereign right to make law and govern. The remaining 80 million citizens or Mexico will be welcomed to move to move here, abandoning their country to the corrupt plutocrats and government officials. It all stands to reason. You’re so prescient as to be god like!

  • Diana Joe
    November 12, 2007 at 3:46 pm

    BUZZ BuZZ-y’all!-
    This week’s Indigenous Peoples Summit Conference 2 took place in Tucson,Arizona-look up on whatever engine you wish-good news Americans-!
    The conference was a great success!
    The conference was mainly to address and make immediate and URGENT plans to bring an end to the occupation of tribal lands by the United States Border Patrols-in TREATY LANDS -(Native American Soil)of the United States.
    The conference made it possible for tribal leaders of (19) nineteen tribes including the Canadian MOHAWKS and Mexicos MAYAN and Yaqui and Purepechas to unanimously agree that HOMELAND SECURITY has crossed the line!
    – Homeland Security is tresspassing in a sense,and in fact. Furthermore, it was agreed that the United States may be viewed as responsible for the deaths of hundreds of humans fleeing through Indian lands(immigration Depts.tactics of rerouting) and so these humans are dying there as the direct result of tactics instituted through gross and inhumane policing on tribal lands…by using the United States Border Patrol Department presence to drive humans to desolate and harsh desert terrains where they have met their well-planned end-death by political assasination.Look up the Indigenous Border Conference and get ahold of your 401-kays.

  • Frank
    November 12, 2007 at 7:43 pm

    If you are referring to Mestizo-Mexicans, they are no more indigenous to anywhere in the U.S. than numerous other mixed ethnic groups. Their ancestors also came from Europe. They were called Spaniards.
    Anyone born here has a right to be here.

  • Maldonado
    November 12, 2007 at 8:32 pm

    Diana Joe,
    Please click this link:
    I wish you would join us and stop wasting your time with these idiots.

  • Frank
    November 12, 2007 at 9:13 pm

    Why is this video in Spanish rather than some indigenous language that you all claim you are? The video is in the language of those White Europeans that you hate so much. They are your ancestors.

  • Horace
    November 15, 2007 at 6:30 am

    “I wish you would join us and stop wasting your time with these idiots.”
    Why, Moldynado? Diana Joe thinks were all idiots. The only people who aren’t idiots are those who segregate themselves on reservations in extreme poverty and insist on keeping their pure racial characteristics and their stone age traditions.

  • Proud of my ancestors
    November 17, 2007 at 10:28 am

    I am very proud of my ancestors who endured so much to come to the United States legally and to survive many generations thru honest hardwork. Unlike the illegals who come over here for a free education, free medical care, free food stamps, free welfare assistance, not to mention all the charities that hand out free school supplies, clothes,etc. It is no secret that illegals are costing the state of california 10 billion dollars a year. Half the felons are illegals. 80% of the illegals in the state of California are from Mexico. Most are peasants from the rural areas of Mexico with less then a 3rd grade education and no ability to speak English. They are a drain to our society. My ancestors helped to build America into what it is today. They worked hard in their jobs without receiving 1 cent of assistance from any source of the government. What are the illegals doing for the United States? All I hear are that they are hard working people that just want to work. O.k. so who does that benefit? Themselves and the corrupt country of Mexico. These stupid uneducated illegals send 30 billion plus dollars a year to Mexico making it the #1 import which does nothing but help prop up the Mexican government. That money is not going back into the American economy. So, I have not heard what the illegals are doing that is benefiting America. All I know is that they are destroying America and driving wages down by doing jobs for 1/2 of what an American citizen will do them for. If illegals are such outstanding people why don’t they rise up in Mexico and fight to make their country a better place for all. That is because they are selfish and are cowards and don’t have the guts to risk all they have to fight for their country. The Mexican culture is messed up. You are so proud to be Mexican but what is it to truly be Mexican? Many of your ancestors are from Europe and you are speaking a white European language not a Mexican language. Why don’t you discuss the racism that is going on in Mexico itself against the true Mexican native that is dark skinned? Why don’t you speak out against the Mexican government who encourages the dark skinned Mexicans to illegally cross the border? How many illegals do you see that look like Vicente Fox crossing the border? You don’t. You need to stop critizing the people of the United States. If the United States were not here and not the land of opportunity the illegal Mexicans would not be coming here for jobs and welfare because there wouldn’t be any here. Please tell me 150 years ago how many jobs and welfare programs were their here for Mexico? NONE! Why weren’t they coming here in droves then? Even when this was Mexico what did they make of it? Nothing? Thats right? Go back to Mexico and Central America and fight for what is really yours instead of being cowards and running away just to steal another persons money, meaning the American taxpayer. I don’t remember any time in history where Americans were stealing money from Mexicans in such huge numbers. Even the Mormons who went to Mexico paid for that land to live on. By the way, the arguement about the Mormons cannot be compared with the illegals from Mexico. The Mormons went to Mexico legally to practice their religion. Mexicans do not have to escape from Mexico to practice their faith. Entirely different circumstances.
    By the way, who is the racist? Calling yourself a latina or proud to be brown. You don’t see Americans walking around calling themselves Europa or I am proud to be white. What kind of Bull is that? Your the racist. I just laugh because it just shows how ignorant and stupid you all are.

  • Horace
    November 17, 2007 at 9:55 pm

    “By the way, who is the racist? Calling yourself a latina or proud to be brown. You don’t see Americans walking around calling themselves Europa or I am proud to be white.”
    It’s apparent that Latinos are insecure, so they need repeated self-affirmation to keep themselves happy, hence the need for Latian Lista. Then there’s that sense of tribalism, a trait that Europeans weaned themselves from centuries ago. This is why the Anglo Saxons were able to establish a nation accommodating to persons of other than European descent. Xenophobic Mexico, unlike the U.S., discourages immigration.

  • Horace
    November 20, 2007 at 6:44 pm

    Evelyn, how’s the anti-lard crusade coming along?

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