LatinaLista — Maria Teresa Petersen is the founding Executive Director of Voto Latino, an organization that targets getting youth interested in civic participation. Under Petersen’s direction, over 30,000 Latino youth and adults registered to vote in the 2008 elections.
Maria Teresa Petersen
Crisscrossing the country to oversee the various voter registration campaigns Voto Latino spearheaded, Petersen heard firsthand the hopes and dreams new Latino voters had for the winning administration. Besides the economy, the major issue that impacted these new voters, in some way, was immigration.
Yet, Petersen feels immigration reform is only part of the change that President-elect Obama must address for Latino voters once he’s in the White House. In a special post for Latina Lista, Maria Teresa Petersen explains how the volatile debate over immigration reform has spawned a disturbing trend that endangers all Latinos, regardless of citizenship status.
Three of President Obama’s early appointments show he understands the immediacy of the immigration problem: his selection of Arizona Governor Janet Napolitano, a border-state executive on the front lines of the immigration issue, as Homeland Security Secretary; his tapping of Stanford immigration expert Dr. Mariano-Florentino Cuellar for his immigration taskforce; and even naming Governor Bill Richardson as Commerce Secretary (think small business and undocumented workers).
All suggest our soon-to-be President may tackle immigration policy sooner than we think. But the immigration problem we are facing is not just about policy – the more urgent matter is a growing climate of hate against Latinos.
While the debate over immigration continues to rage inside Washington’s corridors, some Americans have taken the often negative tone of the debate to heart. We need to take a serious look at the cruelty engulfing our small towns where the victimization of Latinos — whether citizens, legal immigrants, or un-documented — is at an all-time high.
Since 2004, hate crimes against Latinos have increased 35 percent. Fueled by the increasing anti-immigrant rhetoric that we witness on cable news, and through local small-town ordinances seeking their own solutions to the lack of federal direction, some people (often teenagers) have become angry and hateful.
The perpetrators are often white disaffected teens. In July of last year, a white teenager in Texas nearly beat to death and sodomized a peer for trying to kiss his sister. The victim, a Latino, returned to school six months later, restricted to a wheel chair and colostomy bag.
This past July, in a town near Hazelton, Pennsylvania where that mayor passed strict anti-immigrant measures, a working father of three died from severe head trauma caused by six white teenagers who targeted him for being Mexican.
Three weeks ago, six white teenagers — five white and one Puerto Rican, went on a Mexican bashing spree in Suffolk County, Long Island. Marcelo Lucero, a 37-year-old American resident crossed their path on his way home from work.
Mr. Lucero an Ecuadorian who had lived here since 16, fit the “Mexican” profile and they stabbed him to death. Here too, local elected officials passed unbending “Living While Latino” (LWL) laws.
These are not isolated incidents. According to the FBI, 62.5 percent of all ethnic crimes are against Latinos – a figure certainly higher in reality, given how unlikely undocumented people are to report their victimization.
President-elect Obama may be rightly pushing for new immigration policy — and his recent appointments suggest we can expect this sooner rather than later — but the more urgent need is for him to help change the culture of hate that is literally putting the lives of many fellow Americans at risk, simply because of their heritage.
Comment(71)
Irma
I am glad that Marisa chose to write about this topic. Anti Latino feelings in the US
are rising among all Americans including some minorities . African American Blogs
such as Jack and Jill Politics for example
refer to us as “those people.” This is very disappointing considering the fact that
Latinos formed part of the coalition that
gave Barak Obama the Presidency of the
United States.
I think the President Elect is on the right track in his efforts to address Latinos.
Sandra
There is no anti-“immigrant” rhetoric only anti-“illegal” immigration rhetoric.
So the answer is to legalize 20 million illegal alien Hispanics to take the heat off of Hispanic citizens rather than deporting the ones illegally in our country and therefore Hispanic citizens wouldn’t be viewed with suspicion and contempt? That would only create more contempt for the Hispanic population in this country. We need to get back to the rule of law and stop treating Hispanics whether they be legal or illegal like they were something special.
Irma
Sandra,
Apparently you are not a Hispanic who has experienced anti-immigrant rhetoric harrassment etc. I have, even though I speak English without a
Spanish accent. Spanish is my second language, I learned to speak it at the age of 15. Hispanics dont want to be treated special- we want the respect
that “white” Americans get simply because of the color of their skin.
I am in favor of giving citizenship to
anyone who wants to stay- not just
Hispanics. Your talk of getting back to the rule of law is misdirected. Americans of European origin who form the majority of the US citizenship (for now) ignored the rule of law when they came to this country. They simply came and murdered anyone they thought were a threat.
This being said , immigration law in the US wont change. Hispanics will become the majority in the US probably within the next 25 years. We will then
change the law and yes – make immigration open to everyone.
Sandra
Irma,
I already told you that any Hispanic CITIZENS who are viewed suspiciously today would cease to be viewed that way if they joined the rest of America who are for the rule of law and we deported the illegal aliens. I realize that some are non-hispanic illegals but the majority of them ARE. It is very telling that most Hispanic citizens do not want that.
As far as the past of hundreds of years ago, it is totally irrevelant in today’s world and should have no bearing on the immigration laws of this country today. Those people are all dead now! You can’t hold any of their descendants responsible when the laws and borders have changed and they were born HERE! Conquering lands and people’s were what the humans on our planet did back then. It is a whole different world now. The Indians native to this country that we call the USA today have treaties with our government have all the rights of any other U.S. citizens and their soveriegn lands. The Mestizos of Mexico’s ancestors were from way south of our border and have no rights to this country.
You also live in the past of long ago when skin color WAS relevant. It no longer is in today’s world for the most part. There is no anti-“immigrant” rhetoric today either! I already told you that! This is about people in our country illegally. Why can’t you grasp that?
You are incorrect about Hispanics becoming the majority in this country in 25 years. The races will be more mixed. If someone is a combination of races, one can’t pick and choose just one to identify with.
So when and if Hispanics become the majority in this country according to you, they will allow in any immigrant that wants to come in? How many more millions will be enough for you? Legal immigration is already open in this country to stay within the numbers that we can assimilate and absorb without committing national suicide. Is that what you want for our country? Hispanics are already the majority in 22 countries on the Western Hemisphere. How many more do you need without considering yourselves racists?
irma
Sandra,
You obviously have never been the target of racist rhetoric – lucky you.
Hispanics are particularly sensitive to it , because we all look alike ( illegal immigrants and US citizens).
Antiimmigrant feelings have always been part of the US, The paranoia that there isnt enough room in US has been around since even before 1900.
Obviously, the Irish, Italians or Jews didnt “take over ” the counry. The hysteria regarding immigration was misguided then as it is now.
I am also surprised that you have ignored the fact that US law is all based on a document written by a bunch of
people who died long ago. I guess some dead people are more equal than others in your book?
I am also astonished that you even mention the treaties that the US government has with what is left of
the few survivors of the massacre
of the American Indian. These people were robbed, murdered and now
confined to pens termed reservations.
Before the Europeans came, they were nomadic – there were no borders.
Their way of life was taken from them –
and we, their descendents still mourn this miscarriage of justice.
We, the mestizos as you call us, still view the Americas just as our Indian ancestors did – no borders.
One should simply go where life is better. Yes, there are obstacles now
in the form of laws – LAWS can be CHANGED.
adriana
Way to go Maria Teresa!
Sadly, immigration was not brought up very much during the general election, and in times of economic turmoil, I don’t think that it will be high on the radar because the priority will be putting American citizens back to work. I’m hoping that immigration and the anti-Latino rhetoric will be tackled.
Alessandra
According to Pew Hispanic research and other credible demographic researchers, if the current trajectory continues, by mid-century 29% of the population will have SOME Hispanic roots. That does not mean FULLY Hispanic. That could include a person with one grandparent who is Latino. Whites will be about 49% of the population, still comprising the largest ethnic group. Like another poster mentioned, we will be a more blended nation racially/ethnically.
As to the open borders agenda, only radicals really want open borders. Radicals on the left and globalists on the right who want a never-ending supply of cheap labor. All rational, clear-thinking people realize that we must have an orderly immigration system which meets the needs of our 21st century economy. That means going to an objective point system similar to the one used in Australia which allows people to immigrate who can help us retain our competitive edge in a very competitive global economy, while keeping in mind our carrying capacity and the stress on our infrastructure which is already crumbling.
And lastly, I really cannot imagine too many things more hostile or racist than actively rooting for or rejoicing over the diminishment of any race or ethnic group within a geographical area.
laura
Irma, I agree with you. Guarded borders are as specific to a time in history, as indentured servitude and slavery was to another time in history, and serfdom to another time, and “crossing the Rubicon” meant Caesar taking his army along in his return to Rome – all these conventions have changed and will again change. Our immigration laws will also change, and I think it will happen soon.
But the problem is the enormous crisis now: where violence is incited through anti-immigrant rhetoric by right-wing media figures like Lou Dobbs and Bill O’Reilly combined with the anti-immigrant rhetoric by state officials like Lou Barletta, the mayor of Hazleton, and Long Island Suffolk County Executive Steve Levy (whose rhetoric may have contributed to inciting the killing of Marcelo Lucero).
This is not so different from mob lynchings that our black countrywomen and -men suffered only a few decades ago. They also suffered from violence perpetrated by state agencies, like ICE today. Back then it was local sheriffs and the FBI who targeted any black person who spoke out for justice – including Martin Luther King.
I disagree, Irma, that anti-Latino feeling is big in the black community – not that I can claim to know this community comprehensively. But my impression is, anti-immigrant feeling is limited to the same percentage of die-hard scapegoaters that you will find in any group, race or ethnicity – including a certain, sad number of anti-black Latina/os. Actually there are also anti-black blacks – just look at Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas. (By the way, Irma – 50 years ago a “Sandra” would have railed against uppity blacks the same way she is now railing against “illegals” – the sentiment is the same, the target changes over time.)
African-Americans gained the rights they have today only in a long hard struggle – and there is still a long way to go to reach equality. We have to be prepared for another hard struggle – to shut down the media outlets that preach hate against Latina/os – for whom “illegals” is the code – to stop government violence in ICE raids and “detention centers” (=concentration camps) – and to gain full human rights for all immigrants – as well as all Americans.
A stop to the ICE raids, emptying the “detention centers”, and comprehensive immigration reform are the first steps.
Sandra
Irma, Hispanics wouldn’t all “appear” alike if the citizen ones joined with the rest of America for the rule of law instead of joining with their illegal counterparts. It just shows their ethnocentric racism.
We have to honor the laws of this country as they are stated TODAY until or if they are changed! We also have to honor every country’s borders and immigration laws! We aren’t living back in the stoneage anymore!
Sure there was discrimination against legal immigrants long ago but that is no longer the case TODAY so why even bring that up unless you are trying to say that it is wrong to discriminate against ILLEGAL ALIENS! They are two entirely different catagories!
There isn’t a damned thing we can do about the past. Our government has treaties with OUR native indians and they have all the rights of other Americans. The Mestizo Mexicans who are the descendants of the Mayans and the Aztecs (how convenient to forget that they are descendants of the white-European Spanish invaders also) need to take their gripes up with those countries south of our border, not with us! They have absolutely no right to be in this country at will in today’s world or because of some scewered reasoning about the past.
Sandra
Irma, just some added thoughts.
As I said, your problem–and those who think like you–is that you are still living in the past. You still view the Americas with “no borders because you have been so damned brainwashed by your Chicano Studies (Mexica Movement) classes!
You have to accept that we are no longer living in the 17th or 18th centuries. We are now in the 21st century. The worldwide economy is very complicated and complex and so are geopolitics. You propose that we live as in pre-17th century, but only in the ways that are convenient and beneficial to you and your ethnic group. In all other ways, you want to live in the 21st century! It doesn’t work that way. Even if we wanted to, we cannot return to the 1500s, 1600, 1800s, or even the 1900s.
Again, is your open borders system going to be open to everyone in the world? You cannot propose that only certain people be given the right to open borders as that would be racist. Not everyone from Latin America is indigenous either. How would you propose to deal with that fact? Give everyone who seeks to immigrate here a DNA test to see if they qualify for this benefit? It is simply absurd.
There will be no open borders, Irma. Latinos are very far from “taking over.” Also, if by chance they did and did open the borders for anyone South of the border, it would soon cease. Here are the key words from your own mouth: one should simply go where life is better. Life will cease to be “better” in short order with the open borders that you seek. That will solve that problem.
I have a better idea, Irma: why don’t you and your people work to make life better in your TRUE homelands? Are you saying that you give up and that the only option to you is to steal someone else’s country? Below is where your true homelands are!
http://www.crystalinks.com/aztecs.html
And one more thing: there have been wars fought over land and resources since the beginning of history. Those who came here did nothing different than anyone else at the time. Even the Native Americans themselves fought with each other, wiped out tribes, took slaves. The Aztecs were so hated by the surrounding tribes that they preyed on that those tribes allied themselves with the Spanish. So stop trying to rewrite history as though the indigenous were all sitting around smoking a peace pipe when the white man came. It’s more propaganda BS.
As for the Irish, Italian, and Jewish immigration of the last century, you said that they haven’t “taken over.” Well, duh! That was never their intentions. They didn’t have a hostile “this is my land” attitude and they assimilated into one unified white-European culture bound by one government and country which is the USA!
Irma
Dear Alessandra,
The Pew Hispanic research council
is not the ultimate authority. Also,
being fully Hispanic doesnt make any sense.
I see nothing wrong in being content
that some day things will go back to
the way they were. Over 300 years
ago the native people of the Americas
were overrun by a an ethnic group
that actively rooted for and rejoiced
over their demise. The natives, however, survived and are looking forward to the day that we will have more control over our land. Unlike
the Europeans , we don’t sharing it with everyone.
Texano78704
It must only be me that finds it entirely bizarre that non-immigrants swear that there is no “anti-immigrant rhetoric” in this country even in the face of immigrants that openly declare it.
Even more bizarre is, that as we finish up eight years of the most lawless, corrupt presidential administration, there are those that continually parrot the party talking points about “rule of law.”
Alessandra
Well, Irma, I would have thought that we would have evolved in 300 years, but I guess some of us haven’t.
I for one have been sitting on the fence on this immigration issue for awhile, wanting to be compassionate and fair.
Thank you for making me see that this has very little to do with compassion or immigration, but instead with reconquista as some have said, but I didn’t quite believe.
Sandra
THERE IS NO ANTI-“IMMIGRANT” RHETORIC. THERE IS ONLY OPPOSITION TO “ILLEGAL” IMMIGRATION!!!
Sandra
Laura, oh and by the way, your nasty insinuation about me didn’t go unnoticed. FYI, I supported the Civil Rights Movement because those Blacks were CITIZENS, not illegal aliens. Too bad you and your ilk don’t know the difference!
laura
That’s right, Sandra. That is what I said:
By the way – 50 years ago a “Sandra” would have railed against uppity blacks the same way she is now railing against “illegals” – the sentiment is the same, the target changes over time.
And furthermore, Sandra: The violence you now condone against Latina/os – for whom you use “illegals” as a code word – is the same violence that was unleashed against black Americans 40 years ago.
Sandra
Rule of law isn’t a “party thing”, it is what this country is based on. Are you saying that the Democrats do not adhere to that? I had no use for the Bush Administration either so nice try but no cigar. There is no anti-immigrant rhetoric. There is opposition to illegal immigration and rightly so. If “immigrants” are so discriminated against as you so erroneoulsy claim then why do they continue to come here?
It truly disgusts me that we take in nearlly a million legal immigrants a year and yet this country gets bashed by some for the so-called terrible treatment of “immigrants”. Perhaps those citizens that feel that way, should move elsewhere themselves.
Irma
Sandra,
You must be living under a rock. This country is based on TAKING what you want.
As for antiimmigrant rhetoric – I guess you dont read newspapers, listen to the radio or watch TV either. Opposition to illegal
immigration is CODE for the fear that
the majority will cease to be the majority.
Illegal immigrants come to the US because they are seeking a better ECONOMIC life.
The Americas are not unique in this , this happens all over the world. Everyone knows the potential consequences of a misplaced
antiimmigrant mentality. Think the
massacre of the Jewish Diaspora during
WWII.
We citizens who are not content with
the antiimmigrant policies of the US,
will work to CHANGE these policies.
Its all about money you know – once
Hispanics exert their economic muscle-
we will be heard. We are not going
anywhere – we have always been here and
yes like it or not – our numbers are GROWING. Soon, we will be the majority in Texas, California, Florida,
New York and in a host of Southern states. Politicians will take notice and
LISTEN to us. We are not particularly loyal to any party. It is about results.
Texano78704
Indeed, “rule of law†isn’t a party thing, but it does seem to be quite popular with conservatives and the Republican Party in general. In any event, a significant portion of the electorate supported an administration that had and continues to have a complete disregard for the “rule of law.†So, whenever I hear the “rule of law†brought into the discussion, I have to question why it is so vital in a particular, fluid situation, such as immigration, and not at all as it pertains to fixed law like the US Constitution.
Here we have an article about anti-immigrant social behavior, a far more serious issue that just “rhetoric,†although I imagine that the violence has its roots in rhetoric. Your only response, Sandra, is to claim that there is no anti-immigrant rhetoric (is that the issue?) and your only proof is to make your statement in all caps. Surely you can do better than that.
It truly disgusts me that we take in nearlly a million legal immigrants a year and yet this country gets bashed by some for the so-called terrible treatment of “immigrants”.
Oh, sure. Let’s give ourselves a pat on the back for being the lesser of evils.
maria
Sandra,
I think this statement from you is the most ignorant thing i’ve read, well, pretty much ever:
**Hispanics wouldn’t all “appear” alike if the citizen ones joined with the rest of America for the rule of law instead of joining with their illegal counterparts. It just shows their ethnocentric racism.**
“Appear alike” you mean like the victims of violence in the post above? What about the US Latinos, Latinos who have been in the US for generations who are getting detained on false immigration charges, or pulled over because they happen to be brown.
This isn’t about ethnocentric racism, it’s about still being seen as a citizen when others see Latino=illegal immigrant.
You say deal with laws today. Fine, but the backlash is that those laws are broken. Who’s punishing the businesses that hire worker with false numbers? An inadequate immigration system?
Unfortunately at this stage of the debate, it’s more convenient and showy to throw up walls, conduct mass raids to pacify the countless others who have never had to deal with immigration and what something done NOW!
Unlucky for Latinos, this time around, the Latino is the poster child for this issue.
You make mention of ‘true homelands.’ This is where you disconnect when it comes to Latinos/immigrants.
For me, the US is the only country I’ve known. I am Latino, My ancestors are from Mexico. Surprise, surprise there are a lot of Latinos like this in the US.
Am I any less of both because I see and empathize with how immigrants in the US today?
As far as sympathizers going elsewhere over ‘so-called terrible’ treatment…
You mean the ‘so-called terrible treatment’ of immigrants left to die in cells over lack of treatment. The Washington Post did a series on this called “Careless Detention.”
Or how about author Edwidge Danticat’s uncle dying in a US jail because he was denied political asylum from Haiti. It’s in her book, Brother, I’m Dying.’
150,000 unaccompanied immigrant children from Mexico get dumped across the border, with no notice to their home country. Which by the way, is illegal. This is from a study just out, “A Child Alone without Papers,” by the Center for Public Policy Priorities.
You’re right, this isn’t ‘so-called terrible’ treatment, it’s a horrendous travesty.
And that isn’t being an ethnocentric racist, it’s being a human.
Please educate yourself as to what the immigrant experience is right now. How the US is treating immigrants, immigrant children and then ask yourself if its right.
Sandra
Laura, are you also a liar? Where did I ever say that I condone violence against Latinos whether they be citizens or illegal aliens?
I don’t condone violence against anyone but I certainly don’t support the presence or so-called rights of illegal aliens in this country. How does that convert to violence in your pathetic mind?
Sandra
To the ethnocentric traitors of this country (if the shoe fits…wear it).
This country is not based on “taking what you want”! Maybe for some but not for the majority. Anyway citizens have certain rights of “taking” (nothing illegal of course) in this country that illegal aliens do not! Something the whole lot of you fail to accept.
So for traditional Americans along with their heritage and culture shouldn’t object to an illegal invasion that would change the demographics of this country? You’re kidding, right? How would Mexico like it if millions of white-anglo illegal aliens did the same to them? What hypocrites you all are! And don’t start with the past because those people are all dead now and the rest of us were born here and are citizens of this country. If nothing else we learned from the native indians to not allow an illegal invasion into this country. The natives fought back but they aren’t considered racist for doing so, yet we are? Hypocrites!
“Immigrants” dont have a RIGHT to seek a better life here unless they have person from our government to do so. Are you all really that stupid? Why is it that is ok for Mexico to enforce its immigration laws but not us?
None of you can even debate with honesty. THERE IS NO ANI-IMMIGRANT RHETORIC. Most Americans oppose ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. Does this have to be drilled into your heads? I don’t care if the Hispanic population grows just as long as it isn’t through illegal immigration. Got that? Why are you all nearlly foaming at the mouth of becoming the majority in a majority white country and seeing our numbers dwindled? Do you know how racist that sounds? Hispanics are already the majority in 22 other countries on the Western Hemiphere!! How much more do you need?
Every America loving, law abiding citizen of this country should respect the rule of law no matter what party they are affiliated with. Go ahead and seek changes to any laws you want but don’t attack your fellow Americans with vile names and lies like “anti-immigrant” to achieve your goals just because they don’t agree with you. You are dividing this country by doing so.
There is no terrible treatment of immigrants either legal or illegal. That is just more lies by your side to gains sympathy for illegal aliens. It is nothing but lies that Latinos get pulled over for no reason either just because of their skin color. There is no proof of that!
The lack of reading comprehension is here is simply astounding. When I said if citizen Latinos didn’t appear just like their illegal counterparts, I wasn’t referring to skin color nor ethnicity per se. What I meant is that the legal Latino citizens are sticking up for the illegals, therefore they appear to be the same in most people’s eyes.
There is violence against all racial groups. Latinos aren’t the only ones. When we have 20 million of them in this country illegally, it is bound to fuel the fire of hate crimes (and I don’t advocate that either). It is just a fact of life. That is why we have a criminal justice system to punish those who commit such crimes.
Our immigration laws aren’t broken. They just weren’t enforced and that is our government’s fault. Employers along with the illegals are being sought out and punished. Haven’t you read about the raids? It is because of these raids that the employers are being caught. You speak out of both sides of your mouths. You say you want the employers punished and yet you complain about the raids that is accomplishing just that!
Again you revert to the “immigrant experience” when we aren’t talking about “immigrants” but illegal aliens. I don’t want anyone mistreated but when one enters our country illegally, what do they expect…milk and cookies? I say deport them immediately as our laws demand!
Your so-called humanitarism is laughable to say the least because if these illegals were millions of Chinese for example,instead of Latinos, your humanitarism would go right out the window and you know it! More of your ethnocentric lies!
I will do everything within my power to see that we do not repeat the same mistake of the 1986 amnesty and get our borders secured and make sure that our government knows that we everyday regular Americans expect immigrants to come here legally, no exceptions and no excuses.
Marisa
Unfortunately, crimes against illegals is not the only ethnic issue. Since Obama’s election there has been over 100 crimes committed against black people across the U.S. And while we discuss the plight of illegal immigrants, remember that Hispanic illegals have been allowed to stay here; Haitians, however, need not apply and are promptly turned away should they try to come over in a boat. Africans, the same. The doors have been more open for Latinos and Eastern Europeans than it has been for any other ethnic group. So something else must be at play.
(This comment is not posted by the administrator of this site)
Michaela
Marisa said:
“And while we discuss the plight of illegal immigrants, remember that Hispanic illegals have been allowed to stay here;
Allowed to stay? They have not been allowed to stay, they have just forced their way into our country and then gone into hiding because they know they have broken the law and are criminals. No one is allowing them to stay, they are allowing themselves to stay. They have a lot of “criminal Americans” helping them out and hopefully those criminals will be arrested for aiding and abetting criminals into our country.
Michaela
Irma said:
“Americans of European origin who form the majority of the US citizenship (for now) ignored the rule of law when they came to this country. They simply came and murdered anyone they thought were a threat.”
I get so sick of this ignorant garbage of yours Irma. The Pilgrims came in the 1600’s. Do you NOT think it is time to move on Irma? Can we all just move on from the past and live in the present? And you actually wonder why Americans think you are so ignorant??
Michaela
Irma, this statement you made smells like a threat to me. What are you “Hispanics” planning, genocide against whites? It wouldn’t surprise me a bit as your hatred for white-Americans is palpable. Here’s a clue as to why Americans resent your kind…WE DO NOT LIKE BEING THREATENED! Got it?
We are not going
anywhere – we have always been here and
yes like it or not – our numbers are GROWING. Soon, we will be the majority in Texas, California, Florida,
Michaela
Laura:
We have to be prepared for another hard struggle – to shut down the media outlets that preach hate against Latina/os – for whom “illegals” is the code –
Good God Laura, you’ve been smoking too much peyote. You think “illegals” is a “code” word for Latino/Mexican AMERICANs????? What???? I think “illegals” is code for illegal aliens, period! You are some kind of conspiracy nut. Your “people” are not oppressed or hated, but your “people”, i.e., illegal aliens, are deeply resented by Americans OF ALL ETHNICITIES because they SHOULD be resented. They have forced their way into our country and taken us down financially. Mexicans would resent the hell out of illegal alien whites in their country. Where in the name of God does all this Hispanic entitlement come from?? It just defies comprehension.
Michaela
Sandra said:
“Laura, are you also a liar?
Where did I ever say that I condone violence against Latinos whether they be citizens or illegal aliens?
I have never seen you condone violence Sandra. On the other hand, I have seen many radical Hispanics “tacitly” condone violence against whites. With their huge victim mentality however, they think they have a right to condone it against whites.
Michaela
Maria, who is “dumping” these kids back across the border? Where do you get this propaganda? We in America would not do this if for no other reason than you whiners would try to sue the hell out of us.
“150,000 unaccompanied immigrant children from Mexico get dumped across the border, with no notice to their home country.” Which by the way, is illegal.”
Irma
Michaela.
We are threatening no one, but our numbers are growing – sigh at a rapid pace. Why? I guess we like babies?
Strange that babies are a threat!. We dont hate whites – most of us are part white too.
What we dont like is the way our people
( US citizens or not) are treated. We are not garbage – those of us who ARE US
ciitizens are going to try to get FAIR
treatment for everyone , including our
cousins who are “illegal”. Geez, I lived
on the East Coast for awhile, and I was
surprised to see so many illegal Irish.
They have all the construction jobs.
No one singles them out or raids
construction sites. I guess Irish illegal
immigrants are okay and Hispanic ones are not?
Move on? Geez , I suppose if slavery still existed in the US, you would say-
thats the law , get over it ?
There is no statute of limitation on injustice and inhumanity.
As others have stated in this forum,
laws can be changed. Slavery was wrong, that was changed. Immigration
reform and treatment of immigrants
(legal or not) is next.
We are a patient people. 25 years, 50 years maybe – I think we can resolve
these issues in the voting booth sooner than that LEGALLY.
Sandra
Irma,
Liking babies is one thing but procreating so many that you can’t care for or can’t afford to educate them is quite another. We have limited resources. We already have 300 million people in this country. You can see what making so many babies has done to Mexico. The families live in poverty. We must procreate responsibly.
Mestizo Mexicans may be part white but their culture and langauge is different than white-anglo culture. I am not saying that one is superior over the other, just different. So calling yourself white racially is irrelevant.
Illegal aliens do get fair treatment in our country. You want to go beyond what is fair though and reward them with amnesty. No one is saying that they are garbage or that Hispanic citizens are garbage. They do however tend to stand up for their illegal counterparts rather than the rule of law. I disagree with this stance and so do most Americans.
I am opposed to ALL illegals in this country including the Irish. I don’t know why contruction sites aren’t raided as they would find mostly Hispanic illegals working those jobs at least out here in Calif. The only reason that the focus is on Hispanic illegals is because they make up the huge majority of illegals by 80%. Yet this same stupid question keeps coming up to pull the race card.
As I said, go ahead and try to get changes made to our laws. As a citizen you have that right but you do not have the right to aid and abet illegal aliens in the meantime. I disagree that there is any inhumanity or injustice in our immigration laws nor the enforcement of them. By the way, slavery wasn’t a law! Not a good analogy on your part.
So what you going to do 50 years from now when and if Hispanics become the majority in this country? Are you going to allow all of Mexico and the rest of Latin America in here? Why not seek to make changes in their own failed countries instead of overpopulating and changing the anglo white majority demographics of this one? As I asked and no one answered…Hispanics are already the majority in 22 countries on the Western Hemisphere, when will you have enough control to satisfy yourselves?
Texano78704
Wow, Sandra really put some effort into her diatribe and it really had me thinking — so much so that I had to write an interpretation.
This is what I got out of Sandra’s essay.
To all those that oppose Manifest Destiny…
Throughout history, the powerful have always triumphed over the weak, and in this country, there is no exception. Get over it!
The promoters of Manifest Destiny have every right to do whatever it takes to create and preserve cultural supremacy in this country.
We can call those that oppose us hypocrites by simply citing absurd comparisons, like sending millions of “white-anglos†Mexico even though Mexico would never be able to create enough economic pressure on the US to make migration to another country a viable option. Throughout history, the powerful have always triumphed over the weak, and in this country, there is no exception (repeated for emphasis).
Throughout history, the powerful have always triumphed over the weak, and in this country, there is no exception (repeated again for emphasis).
To all those that oppose Manifest Destiny… you are liars. Don’t your understand that putting “THERE IS NO ANI-IMMIGRANT RHETORIC†in all caps is self-proving? Obviously, you are idiots as well. Even though I’m foaming at the mouth about this, you ethnic minorities should not be foaming at the mouth over attempting to achieve equal political representation in this country by virtue of the fact that you purportedly have political representation in 22 foreign countries.
America loving, law-abiding citizens of this country should respect the rule of law when it suits their political agenda. Nevertheless, do not mess with Manifest Destiny.
There is no terrible treatment of immigrants either legal or illegal. Just ignore articles like this or maybe just stick your head in the sand like an ostrich.
You are idiots (repeated for emphasis). If you are a Latino and stand up for human rights, you should be put on a bus and sent back to Mexico along with the other 12 million illegals.
There is violence against all racial groups and even though violence against Latinos is on the rise, Latinos should just get used to it.
Our immigration laws aren’t broken, they are just unworkable. But that should not deter us from using them.
In spite of the fact that our laws require due process of law, illegal aliens should be deported immediately as Manifest Destiny demands!
You are liars (repeated for emphasis).
I will do everything within my power to achieve Manifest Destiny.
Pretty powerful argument, eh?
Michaela
Irma, there is nothing wrong with liking babies, but as Sandra said, common sense needs to be applied. Is it not common sense to sit down and think, well I have four kids already and they are quite a handful financially and emotionally. I think the best thing to do would be to get my tubes tied or use birth control. If I do that, then I will be able to provide better for my children financially as well as giving them quality time. What is the point of just reproducing without thinking of the consequences? That seems to be a very disturbing trend among Latinos and it is truly sad, and in addition, is cause for a lot of domestic violence in this country.
Michaela
Irma, well I am certainly glad to hear you don’t hate whites, it is just hard to believe you don’t.
You say your people are treated like garbage. That is bullsh*t. Hispanics have more opportunities than whites or even blacks than any other ethnicity in this country. There are literally hundreds of orgs which work for Latinos ONLY. I consider that extremely racist by the way.
One thing I have noticed for years with Hispanics is that many of them have inferiority complexes and, of course, they blame it on whites. That is what I am tired of. It is the responsiblility of Hispanics, and Hispanics ONLY, to learn to love themselves and realize their full potential. Sometimes it seems like Hispanics love playing the eternal victim. That is asinine. My parents did not teach me I was garbage or that I had to play the race card to get ahead in life. That is sheer laziness to have the victim mentality and whtes have had enough of the whining when it is OBVIOUS THAT HISPANICS GET CATERED TO FAR MORE THAN ANY OTHER ETHNICITY IN THIS ENTIRE COUNTRY.
From my and many Americans’ perspective, it just appears it is easier for you to whine and bitch and moan than to pull yourself up by your bootstraps and take things into your OWN hands. Think before having sex. Think about the consequences of having too many babies. Get off your ass and take advantage of all the orgs that are specifically here to help Hispanics. There is no excuse for the situation many Hispanics are in. They chose to have too many babies. The illegals chose to break our laws and enter our country. There are consequences in life. Did your mom not teach you that? Quit blaming others, teach Hispanics to quit blaming others and we will all get along a lot better.
Also, those of you who are ARE U.S. citizens are treated fairly, period. DEMANDING fair treatment for illegals is not the way to do it. You are only infuriating legal Americans by these childish, arrogant demands. Why not tell YOUR people to do things the RIGHT way? How about THAT Irma?
Irma
Dear Texano,
I am a Tejana too.
Dear Michaela,
Big families are good for those who love children. We are not the only ones who came from big families. Loretta Lynn
and Dolly Parton came from big famiies.
They figured it out .
I dont think big families have a higher incidence of domestic violence. In fact,
I think it it true that most of the kids that
have gone on shooting sprees in their
schools have had at most one sibling and
come from the middle class. Too much
attention , I guess ?
But to get back to the original subject.
Hispanics (illegal or not) are WRONGLY
subject to maltreatment in the US.
The solution to reducing Hispanic numbers in the US is to invest in
the economies of Hispanic countries.
Improve the situation there and fewer
will come. My family would probably still be in Mexico if the local government hadnt given the biggest
farm owner total control over water in that part of the country. You cant
farm without water. If there are no jobs,
you have to find one somewhere.
Thats what drove the migration to the
US in the 1900s from Europe, that is what is driving the migration from
Mexico and the rest of South America to the the US now.
Sandra
My rebuttal to the interpretation of my so-called essay:
“To all those that oppose Manifest Destiny…
Throughout history, the powerful have always triumphed over the weak, and in this country, there is no exception. Get over it!”
This isn’t about triumph of the powerful over the weak, it is about the right of any country to retain its natural heritage, culture and language and not lose it through illegal immigration.
“The promoters of Manifest Destiny have every right to do whatever it takes to create and preserve cultural supremacy in this country.”
See above and it hasn’t anything to do with supremacy. Otherwise you are calling Mexicans supremists also for wanting to retain their heritage, culture and langauge for their own country also.
“We can call those that oppose us hypocrites by simply citing absurd comparisons, like sending millions of “white-anglos†Mexico even though Mexico would never be able to create enough economic pressure on the US to make migration to another country a viable option. Throughout history, the powerful have always triumphed over the weak, and in this country, there is no exception (repeated for emphasis).”
You do know what an analogy is, don’t you? I guess it flew right over your head. It was a hypothetical so you could see unfair it would be for Mexicans in Mexico to be invaded by millions of white-anglos illegally and then called racists for not accepting it.
“Throughout history, the powerful have always triumphed over the weak, and in this country, there is no exception (repeated again for emphasis).”
Repeat all you want. We will not stand for this invasion anymore and will actively seek to stop an amnesty and see that all illegals are deported as our laws demand.
“To all those that oppose Manifest Destiny… you are liars. Don’t your understand that putting “THERE IS NO ANI-IMMIGRANT RHETORIC†in all caps is self-proving? Obviously, you are idiots as well. Even though I’m foaming at the mouth about this, you ethnic minorities should not be foaming at the mouth over attempting to achieve equal political representation in this country by virtue of the fact that you purportedly have political representation in 22 foreign countries.”
Ok, I will not type it in caps this time. The reason I did, is because “anti-immigrant rhetoric” is a big fat lie that keeps getting repeated by you illegal aliens symps. There is no need for every ethnic group in this country to be represented by a politician who is of their same ethnicity. I am white and I don’t feel the need to have a white politician represent me. I don’t care what color of skin or ethnicity a politician is as long as he treats all Americans equally. You didn’t address my remark that Hispanics are the majority in 22 countries on the Western Hemisphere. It wasn’t about political representation but population numbers and culture. Can’t white people continue to be the majority in the U.S. and Canada without being called racists for it or your ethnic group seeking to replace us in our own country through illegal immigration and excessive procreating?
“America loving, law-abiding citizens of this country should respect the rule of law when it suits their political agenda. Nevertheless, do not mess with Manifest Destiny.”
I respect the rule of law at ALL times.
“There is no terrible treatment of immigrants either legal or illegal. Just ignore articles like this or maybe just stick your head in the sand like an ostrich.”
We disagree on what “mistreatment” is then and your link didn’t work.
“You are idiots (repeated for emphasis). If you are a Latino and stand up for human rights, you should be put on a bus and sent back to Mexico along with the other 12 million illegals.”
No it isn’t human rights you are standing up for but illegal invaders. Even they are afforded basic human rights in this country. What about the human rights of Americans not to have their country invaded by million of illegal aliens?
“There is violence against all racial groups and even though violence against Latinos is on the rise, Latinos should just get used to it.”
The Latino population is continuing to rise, therefore that explains the increase in violence for their group. Another contributing factor is that there are millions of them here illegally. Two years ago there were more hate crimes against whites than hate crimes against Latinos.
“Our immigration laws aren’t broken, they are just unworkable. But that should not deter us from using them.”
No they aren’t unworkable they just weren’t enforced and our borders weren’t secured. We currently take in nearlly a million legal immigrants per year. Immigration should be based on the needs and best interests of this country, not immigrants.
“In spite of the fact that our laws require due process of law, illegal aliens should be deported immediately as Manifest Destiny demands!
You are liars (repeated for emphasis).
I will do everything within my power to achieve Manifest Destiny.
Pretty powerful argument, eh?”
Well you complain about the treatment of “immigrants” so I am all for changing the law and deporting them immedialtely so they won’t have to suffer and be mistreated as you claim.
The only liars are on the pro-illegal side starting with the lie that there is anti-“immigrant” rhetoric. I could go on but there are too many of them to list here.
Our Manifest Destiny is no different than any other country that wants to control its population growth, allow only legal immigration and retain its traditional demographic makeup and culture.
Yes, my arguments are quite powereful, thank you.
Texano78704
Sandra, the “natural heritage, culture and language†of the North American continent has nothing whatsoever to do with the English language or Anglo-European culture. The fact that you insist that the English language and your culture are “natural” is only proof of “Manifest Destiny.â€
I asked at least once, about whether “rhetoric†is really the issue and not “behavior,†as demonstrated by this article by Marisa. No answer on that so far. And here is a snip from article that I tried to link to before.
The Harris County Sheriff’s Office is investigating allegations that deputies harassed a family of Sikhs whose home was burglarized last week. Family members say the deputies handcuffed them, roughed them up and taunted them instead of taking a report on the break-in.
One deputy reportedly asked them if they’d “heard about the bombings in Bombay.” Another allegedly said he had been to Kuwait and “knew about Muslims.” Since 9/11, misperceptions about Sikhs’ religiously mandated turbans and beards have led to an increase in discrimination against Sikhs, according to the New York-based Sikh Coalition.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/life/religion/6150136.html
That is just one example from last week. Okay, you can go back to putting your head in the sand again.
Can white people continue to be the majority in the U.S. and Canada without being called racists… They can if they stop insisting on exterminating everyone else’s culture or at least be tolerant of other cultures in this country.
Can white people not be called racist when talking about “excessive procreating†done by other ethnic groups? Not the way you do it, Sandra.
I did address your remark about “Hispanics in 22 countries,†in a manner that was consistent with your absurd statement, with an apparent vain attempt to make sense of it.
And I have no doubt that you respect the law at all times, Sandra. You remind me very much of a modern day legalist. There once was this guy from Nazareth who railed against the legalists of his day and time. I seem to remember him saying something about how they would strain out gnats while swallowing camels. Think about it.
Why do you keep telling us that “anti-immigrant rhetoric†is a big fat lie without offering us “alien symps†any proof? Just try something simple… like the lack of presence of arguments about overpopulation. Oh, wait; maybe that is not a good example for you.
In addition to your virtuousness, you seem to be blessed with the ability to divine the true objectives of “alien symps.†Apparently, we only disguise our efforts as standing up for human rights. Yes, your argument is so persuasive that instead of calling it “standing up for human rights,†I will say simply “alien sympathizing.†Yes I will, right after I contact the UN about adding “Americans have the human right of not being invaded by aliens†to their “Universal Declaration of Human Rights.â€
I have to add that I found this statement by Michaela more than a little bit naïve.
Also, those of you who are ARE U.S. citizens are treated fairly, period.
Try picking up a newspaper once in a while and read more than just the weekly advertisements and you will realize that this statement is not true.
Sandra
Texano,
I was referring to the heritage, culture and language of THIS country since its formation, not the whole damned continent!
Allegations are’t facts!
Whites are not exterminating other cultures in this country. That is another one of your lies! They and other law abiding citizens just expect immigrants to come legally so that they assimilate into our society. There is no problem with them retaining some of the old culture even the Irish, Poles, etc. did and still do. What you fail to address is that when “immigrants” come here in uncontrolled numbers illegally from mostly one ethnic group and procreate excessively, the demographics, culture and language of this country will change. Would Mexico for example welcome that from an invasion of illegal white-anglos or Chinese? That is where your hypocricy lies!
The term “anti-immigrant” rhetoric isn’t true because we do not demonize LEGAL immigrants in our country (unless they don’t follow the rule of law). Yes, there is anti-“illegal alien” rhetoric but most of what is stated about them aren’t lies either. What you and your do is not use the correct terminology for two entirely different groups and it is done so on purpose!
The problem is that you and yours want beyond human rights (of which they already get) for these illegals. You want amnesty for them and you call any American opposed to rewarding them with that, racists.
Irma
Michaela,
I dont having an inferiority complex is more prevalent among Hispanics than whites.
If anything, we are a very confident people. We are not
afraid of doing what it takes to try to improve our lives.
Your stereotyping of Hispanics and their large familiies is
racist. It saddens me that in
2008, you still harbor racist
views from long ago.
There is little point to further dialogue with you –
no one can convince you
otherwise.
The President Elect thank
God, doesnt agree with you and he will be in power for the next 8 years.
There will be change – not as much as I would like , but there will be change.
Michaela
Irma:
“The solution to reducing Hispanic numbers in the US is to invest in the economies of Hispanic countries.
Improve the situation there and fewer will come.”
Again, there’s the demanding attitude. Mexico needs to improve their situation. The Mexican government needs to take responsibility. It is MEXICO’S responsibility, NOT ours, to take care of their people!
Horace
Horace here, communicating from Camp Liberty, Iraq. 49-days to go before zero day and that lovely ride out to Kuwait on a C-130 luxury liner and on to the lovely USA.
I agree with you, Eyes, and those of like minds.
Heather Mac Donald gave a true analysis of the illegal immigration situation back in 2006. I submit it for your reading pleasure.
http://www.city-journal.org/html/16_3_immigration_reform.html
Seeing Today’s Immigrants Straight
Heather Mac Donald
Advocates of “comprehensive immigration reform†let ideology blind them to the dispiriting facts on the ground.
The immigration debate has divided the conservative movement, with each side accusing the other of betraying core conservative principles. Amnesty proponents argue that America’s best traditions require legalizing the 11 to 12 million illegal aliens already here and opening the door wide to would-be migrants the world over. Illegal immigration, these conservative advocates say, is the inevitable and blameless consequence of misguided laws that foolishly—and vainly—seek to prevent willing workers and labor-hungry employers from finding each other. Hispanics—the vast majority of aliens and the real center of the immigration debate—bring much-needed family values and a work ethic to the American polity; refusing to grant them legal status would destroy Republican hopes for a large new voting bloc. Since popular opposition to large-scale Hispanic immigration stems from economic ignorance and nativist fear, policymakers should protect America from its own worst impulses and ignore the anti-immigration revolt.
Conservative opponents of amnesty and liberalized immigration respond that the rule of law is at stake. Rewarding large-scale lawbreaking with legal status and financial benefits will spark further violations. The mass amnesty protests of the spring were part of a growing international movement challenging national sovereignty. Conservative respect for facts should encourage skepticism toward claims of superior Hispanic values. And the conservative preference for local decision making cautions against dismissing the popular backlash against illegal immigration; it is just possible that people closest to the problem know something that Beltway insiders do not.
Vexing the debate further, the popular revolt is not just against illegal immigration but against high levels of unskilled Mexican immigration per se. As political scientist Peter Skerry observes, the public dislikes the effect on local communities of large numbers of poor Mexicans and their progeny, legal or not. Some of the effects, such as crime, worsen dramatically from the first to the second generation of Mexicans, who not only are legal but are American citizens.
Since criticizing illegal immigration often draws charges of racism, few relish going further and challenging the wisdom of our current immigration flows, legal or not. Yet unless we accurately diagnose the immigration problem, any legislative fix that merely converts the current illegal flow to a legal one will fail both as policy and as politics. Herewith—in an effort to sharpen the internal debate—are the conservative principles that militate against amnesty, for immigration-law enforcement, and for a radical change in immigration priorities.
Principle 1: Respect the law. This year’s illegal-alien demonstrators put forward a novel theory of entitlement: because we are here, we have a right to be here. Protesters in Santa Ana, California, shouted: “We are here and we’re not going anywhere,†reports the Los Angeles Times. Anger at the widespread contempt for American law contained in such defiant assertions drives much of the public hostility toward illegal aliens. Conservatives, with their respect for the rule of law, and appreciation for its fragility, would ordinarily honor this gut reaction, rather than dismissing it as some atavistic tribal impulse. Poverty and other grounds for victim status do not, in the conservative worldview, create a license for lawbreaking.
The rule of law ensures that like cases are treated alike and unlike cases distinguished. But if the immigration protesters have their way, someone who ignored all the procedures for legal entry will achieve the same status and benefits as someone who played by the rules. During the Senate’s immigration debates in the spring, amnesty proponents claimed that it was unfair that people who have worked for American employers be forced to “live in the shadows.†Left out of the equation was the question of justice to people who have waited for years in their own countries for permission to enter lawfully.
Protecting one form of lawbreaking may require protecting others as well. The city of Maywood in Los Angeles County declared itself a sanctuary zone for illegal aliens this year. Then it got rid of its drunk-driving checkpoints, because they were nabbing too many illegal aliens. Next, this 96 percent Latino city, almost half of whose adult population lacks a ninth-grade education, disbanded its police traffic division entirely, so that illegals wouldn’t need to worry about having their cars towed for being unlicensed.
Principle 2: Protect sovereignty. Today’s international elites seek to dissolve “discriminatory†distinctions between citizens and noncitizens and to discredit border laws aiming to control the flow of migrants. The spring amnesty demonstrations are a measure of how far such new anti-national-sovereignty ideas have spread. The last large-scale amnesty in 1986 was not preceded by mass demonstrations by illegal aliens but was rather a bargaining chip among American legislators, negotiated in exchange for employer sanctions and a national worker-verification card. Predictably, the card never materialized, and the sanctions were never enforced; only the amnesty lived on.
By contrast, this year’s protesters spoke the language of the anti-sovereignty intelligentsia. This increasingly influential discourse was on display at a May conference of Latin American diplomats at the Library of Congress, which spun endless variations on the identical theme: migration is a fundamental human right. As Nicaragua’s minister of foreign affairs, Norman Caldera Cardenal, put it: “It is the responsibility of all nations to respect the dignity, integrity, and rights of all migrants.†(The delegations dutifully acknowledged the U.S. prerogative to decide its own immigration policy, but these ritual genuflections were insignificant compared with the invocations of migrants’ rights.) In less diplomatic language, Mexico’s bicameral permanent legislative commission calls American immigration policy “racist, xenophobic, and a profound violation of human rights,†reports George Grayson in The American Conservative.
Less than a week before the Library of Congress conference, illegal aliens on the streets of Southern California were making the identical demands: “We just want some respect and human rights,†a Santa Ana protester told the Los Angeles Times. “We’re fighting to give [immigrants] equal rights,†explained a marcher in Riverside, California, holding a “Legalize, Not Terrorize†sign.
This call for “human rights†is a clever one, for it hides its radical status in a rhetorical safe harbor. What, exactly, are the “human rights†that the U.S. is denying illegal aliens? They have unfettered access to free medical care, free education, welfare for their children, free representation in court when they commit crimes, every due-process protection during criminal prosecution that the Constitution guarantees citizens and legal immigrants, the shelter of labor laws, and the miracles of modern industrial society like clean water, the control of infectious diseases (including the ones that they bring with them), and plumbing. The only putative “right†that they lack—and that, of course, is the “human right†to which they and their ambassadors refer—is the right to legal status regardless of illegal entry.
So when the illegal-alien demonstrators and their government representatives demand respect for migrants’ “human rights,†they are asserting that U.S. immigration laws must fall before a more powerful claim. Despite the nondiscriminatory procedures for entry that Congress established, merely subjecting an illegal alien to an unequal status compared with legal migrants or citizens violates his human rights. Simply creating in his mind the teeniest thought that he may be penalized for his violation of American sovereignty is itself a callous abuse. The director of a Hispanic social-services agency in Georgia complained to the Atlanta Journal-Constitution that the federal government’s modest immigration arrests in April have “created a mental sickness, where people are depressed. Who wants to be thinking any minute you’re going to be arrested.†Mexico’s consul general in Austin, Jorge Guajardo, echoed this sense of outrage at the “fear†the immigration arrests had caused: “It doesn’t help society or anyone to have these people running scared,†he told the Austin American-Statesman.
The Bush administration and its conservative supporters have defended American law against international claims to override it. To the applause of conservative pundits, the administration has unsigned the International Criminal Court treaty and withdrawn from the Kyoto global-warming protocol. It refused to wait for UN Security Council approval to start the invasion of Iraq. It has claimed the right to interpret international human rights laws for itself during the war on terror, rather than defer to nonelected bodies like the UN or the International Committee of the Red Cross. Conservative pundits have supported Israel’s right to erect a security fence, despite the protestation by the UN International Court of Justice that the fence is illegal. Yet when it comes to immigration law, conservative open-borders advocates and the White House adopt the identical position as the growing anti-sovereignty movement, downplaying the violation of our border law and elevating the “rights†of the illegal migrant to sovereign status.
The illegal-alien rights movement has deployed another powerful contemporary rhetoric: ethnic victimology. As frequent as the demands during the protests to recognize illegals’ “human rights†were the demands for “respect.†“People have to learn to respect Mexicans, to respect immigrants and the work we do here,†an L.A. demonstrator told the Los Angeles Times. “Respect for the migrant is fundamental,†Costa Rica’s minister of foreign affairs told the Library of Congress conference. According to this perspective, immigration policy insults aliens by subjecting them to different statuses according to whether they obeyed the law or not. While the rhetoric of wounded ethnic pride is long in the tooth by now, what is new about today’s protests is not only the sense of entitlement with which lawbreakers strike such an attitude, but also that many conservatives back them.
If the Bush administration and its supporters believe that they can reassert the supremacy of American immigration law after yet another amnesty, they are fooling themselves. No one will take the assurance that “this time we mean business†seriously. If the executive branch is not willing to enforce the current law against violators, a new set of laws will not suddenly strengthen its resolve.
The fictions of the proposed guest-worker law are particularly self-deluded. No AWOL guest worker is going to think that he faces the slightest risk of deportation, knowing that the government won’t even penalize people who entered the country illegally from Day One. If the proposed amnesty becomes law, expect illegal immigration to explode, just as it did after the 1986 amnesty, when illegal entry increased fivefold.
Principle 3: Support law enforcement. Come-and-get-it immigration advocates endlessly assert that immigration enforcement can’t work. This claim ignores the most important demonstration of conservative principles in the last 20 years.
Elite wisdom for decades held that the police cannot affect crime. The social forces pushing criminals to break the law—poverty, racism, addiction—were too powerful; policing could at best try to solve crimes after they happened. New York’s Mayor Giuliani and his first police chief, William Bratton, rejected that fatalism. They empowered the New York Police Department to enforce aggressively laws that had long lain moribund. The targets of the new public-order push complained bitterly that it was unfair to arrest them for marijuana sales and other crimes after years of de facto decriminalization. The NYPD continued its enforcement drive anyway and brought crime down 70 percent in a decade. It turns out that the well-founded fear of getting caught changes behavior.
Conservative open-borders advocates do not explain why policing brings domestic crime down but can have no effect on border crime. Nor can they point to any evidence to support their claim, since immigration laws have never been enforced in the interior of the country. To be sure, border defenses have been fortified over the years, but the drill has been: if you can get past the border patrol, you are home free. The most important action the government could take to end illegal immigration would be to penalize employers that unlawfully hire illegal aliens, but in 2004, it issued fine notices to only three companies. With such a negligible risk of punishment, the law’s deterrent effect has been zero. Illegal aliens, for their part, know that in none of their interactions with state services will anyone check their status—including, in most cities, when they are arrested for a crime—nor, if their illegal status is obvious, will anyone report them to the federal government.
Not only is the claim that enforcement doesn’t work based on no evidence whatsoever, but in fact what evidence there is runs in the opposite direction. The merest hint of enforcement leads employers and illegal aliens to make different calculations about the advantages of breaking the law. Employers in Gwinnett County, north of Atlanta, have grown reluctant to hire illegals after highly publicized federal raids on an international pallet company in April and the passage of an omnibus Georgia law that, among other measures, punishes employers for breaking the immigration rules. The state law has not been enforced yet, but already fewer employers are seeking illegal day laborers. A Mexican from Guanajuato told the Atlanta Journal-Constitution that he is going back home if the jobs picture doesn’t pick up soon; others like him may be making similar plans.
Phoenix teaches the same lesson. Home Depot, on the city’s central business artery, for years tolerated the hundreds of illegal Hispanics congregating outside the store and in its parking lot. Neighboring businesses complained bitterly about lost customers and the constant littering, trespassing, and public urination. This May, Home Depot posted signs against trespassing and picking up day laborers, and hired off-duty police officers to enforce the rules. Since then, the day laborers have almost completely disappeared.
Federal agencies have designated a stretch of the Texas border a zero-tolerance zone for border trespassing since December 6, 2005. Rather than releasing illegal entrants upon capture, the feds jail them for their border crime, then deport them. One Border Patrol agent told the Washington Post that the 51 percent drop in apprehensions since the operation began are “the most dynamic results†he had seen in 19 years on the force. The Post concluded: Operation Streamline II “has shown what it takes to stop the flow of illegal immigrants: aggressive enforcement of the laws on the books.â€
After 9/11, the Department of Homeland Security deported 1,500 illegal Pakistanis. An additional 15,000 then left voluntarily, reports Jessica Vaughan of the Center for Immigration Studies. There is no reason to think that this enforcement-through-attrition strategy won’t work as well for Hispanic illegals. Simply requiring employers to verify the status of their workers would deny jobs to 3 million illegal workers, which should lead many to leave.
Immigration liberalizers wield the threat of mass deportations as the only alternative to amnesty. By now this argument borders on bad faith, since it has been refuted so many times. The attrition strategy—relying on illegal aliens to leave voluntarily as their access to American benefits diminishes—would work just as effectively, without coercion.
Many open-borders boosters are hawks in the war on terror. But since many of the methods that maintain the border’s integrity overall are essential to keeping terrorists out of the country, these boosters should explain why they think we can wink at immigration-border violations and still protect the public against foreign enemies. Either we should give up on keeping immigration lawbreakers and terrorists from entering the country, or we should remain vigilant against both, since border security is key to terror protection.
Principle 4: Pay attention to facts on the ground. If someone proposed a program to boost the number of Americans who lack a high school diploma, have children out of wedlock, sell drugs, steal, or use welfare, he’d be deemed mad. Yet liberalized immigration rules would do just that. The illegitimacy rate among Hispanics is high and rising faster than that of other ethnic groups; their dropout rate is the highest in the country; Hispanic children are joining gangs at younger and younger ages. Academic achievement is abysmal.
Conservatives pride themselves on reality-based thinking that rejects utopian theories in favor of facts on the ground. Yet when it comes to immigration, they cling, against all contrary evidence, to the myth of the redeeming power of Hispanic family values, the Hispanic work ethic, and Hispanic virtue. Even more fanciful is the claim that it is immigrants’ children who constitute the real value to American society. The children of today’s Hispanic immigrants, in fact, are in considerable trouble.
Without doubt, many Latinos are upwardly mobile. But a significant portion of their children are getting sucked into street life, as a trip to almost any urban high school and some conversations with almost any Hispanic student will verify. In the field, the conservative fact-finder would learn that teen pregnancy is pervasive and that Hispanic boys increasingly regard fathering children as the prerequisite to becoming a “playah.â€
Conservatives have never shrunk from pointing out that dysfunctional behavior creates long-term poverty among inner-city blacks. But when Hispanics engage in the same behavior, they fall silent. From 1990 to 2004, the number of Hispanics in poverty rose 52 percent, accounting for 92 percent of the increase in poor people. The number of poor Hispanic children rose 43 percent, reports Washington Post columnist Robert Samuelson. By contrast, the number of poor black children has declined 17 percent since 1990. The influx of dirt-poor Mexicans drives the Hispanic poverty increase, of course, but their behavior once here doesn’t help.
Our immigration policy is creating a second underclass, one with the potential to expand indefinitely if current immigration rates merely stay the same, much less treble, as they would under the Hagel-Martinez Senate bill. Given the rapid increase in the Hispanic population, the prevalence of the following socially destructive behavior among Hispanics should be cause for serious concern.
Illegitimacy. Half of all children born to Hispanic Americans in 2002 were illegitimate, twice the rate for American whites and 42 percent higher than the overall American rate. The birthrate for Hispanic teens is higher than that for black teens. In Santa Ana, California, which has the highest proportion of people who speak Spanish at home of any large U.S. city—74 percent—the teen birthrate was twice the national teen average in 2000. This predilection for out-of-wedlock childbearing among Hispanics cannot be blamed solely on corrosive American culture, since the illegitimacy rate for foreign-born Hispanics is 40 percent. The illegitimacy rate in Mexico is 38 percent; in El Salvador, it is 72 percent.
It is hard to reconcile these statistics with the durable myth of superior Hispanic family values. A random walk through Santa Ana encountered ample evidence of Hispanic family breakdown. Livia came illegally from Mexico six years ago and then bore two illegitimate children; she now sells fruit from a pushcart on Main Street. A few blocks away, a 23-year-old illegal unmarried mother from El Salvador is protesting for smaller class sizes (an irony lost on her) outside a Santa Ana school board meeting. She came to the U.S. at age ten, dropped out of high school, and had her son “really young.†He is now on welfare. This unwed mother prides herself on not having had any more children. “So many Latinas are having so many kids,†she says disapprovingly. “Kids are having kids.â€
Even the mainstream media can’t help stumbling across the Hispanic illegitimacy epidemic. Reporting on this spring’s illegal-alien protests in downtown L.A., the Los Angeles Times turned up Guadalupe Aguilera, the mother of five illegitimate children. Aguilera thinks herself self-sacrificing for putting her children only on the WIC federal food program. If she had documents, she said, she could take advantage of a far greater range of welfare benefits. “I lose money that I could give my children,†she complained to the Times. Increasingly, Hispanic family values mean collecting welfare for out-of-wedlock children.
Academic failure. It would be useful for open-borders optimists to spend some time in the Los Angeles Unified School District, which is 73 percent Hispanic, and where just 40 percent of Hispanic students graduate. (Nationwide, 53 percent of Hispanics graduate from high school, according to the Manhattan Institute’s Jay Greene—the lowest rate among all ethnic groups.) Of those Hispanic students who do graduate, just 22 percent have completed the course work necessary for admission to a four-year state college—which means that of all Hispanic students who enter in ninth grade, fewer than 15 percent will graduate ready for college. Immigrant advocates have fiercely opposed in court a long-deferred California high school exit exam, which would require students to answer just over 50 percent of questions testing eighth-grade-level math and ninth-grade-level English. The California Research Bureau predicts that if the exam becomes a reality, Hispanic graduation rates would drop well below 30 percent.
A recent Los Angeles Times series on high school dropouts put some faces on the numbers. Eleven male Hispanic friends entered Birmingham High School in Van Nuys together in 2001; only three graduated. Because the boys spent so much time cutting classes—usually hanging out at fast-food restaurants—most failed to log any academic progress and saw no sense in staying enrolled. Drugs, turf rivalries, and fathering children also contributed to their failure to graduate. Birmingham’s teachers despair at their students’ lack of academic commitment and at their belief that seat time should entitle them to a passing grade. Reports Ronald Fryer in Education Next, hostility toward academic achievers is even higher among Hispanics than among blacks.
Schools spend huge sums trying to improve the Hispanic graduation rate, even hiring “outreach consultants†for dropout prevention. One Santa Ana consultant’s approach is predictably multicultural. “We need to teach teachers that students need to be proud of where they are coming from,†she told me. But of course Hispanic school failure derives not from ethnic neglect—the Santa Ana schools glorify the Hispanic heritage to a fault—but from parents who don’t demand rigorous academic application and don’t stand up to corrosive popular influences. At Santa Ana High School, I spoke with a former student, Julio, who had been expelled as a troublemaker in ninth grade, then returned briefly in the tenth grade but didn’t take a single class. “Me and my friends ditched; our parents didn’t know.†It is the cultural capital that immigrants bring with them that most determines their success; the work ethic of poor Mexicans does not carry over to their children’s schooling, and we are all paying the price.
The more-immigrants-the-better proponents counter that early-twentieth-century Italian immigrants were also indifferent to schooling but eventually joined the middle class. But by contrast with the economy of a century ago, today’s knowledge-based economy values education above all else. College-educated workers have seen a 22 percent increase in real income since 1980, while high school dropouts lost 3 percent of their wages. High school dropouts will almost certainly remain poor, imposing huge welfare and health-care costs on taxpayers while lowering tax receipts. Native-born Hispanics collected welfare at over twice the rate as native-born whites in 2005; the foreign-born Hispanic welfare rate was nearly three times that of native-born whites.
Gang culture. In his prime-time May radio address promoting amnesty, President George Bush invoked a marine, Guadalupe Denogean, as the embodiment of immigrant values. Like Denogean, today’s immigrants are willing, said Bush, “to risk everything for the dream of freedom.†Many immigrants do share Denogean’s patriotic ethic. But for every immigrant soldier, there are as many less admirable counterparts. A selection of Hispanic portraits could just as well have picked out Connie Retana, a 38-year-old Anaheim, California, resident, who in February egged on her 18-year-old son, Martin Delgado, as he and his gang friends raped a 23-year-old for seven hours in retaliation against the young woman’s boyfriend. A survey of Hispanic family values might also include the Santa Ana mother who threatened in 2004 to kill her neighbors if they testified against her gangster son in a gun-assault case. Then there’s the extended family of criminals in Pomona, California, who raised Valentino Arenas: the 18-year-old sought membership in Pomona’s 12th Street gang by killing a California highway patrol officer in cold blood in April 2004. Following a sweep in May of the gang, which specializes in large-scale drug trafficking, murder, and extortion, Los Angeles district attorney Steve Cooley excoriated the families across the California Southland who are “aiding and abetting murders in Los Angeles County†by refusing to cooperate with authorities or curtail their children’s crimes.
Open-borders conservatives point to the relatively low crime rate among immigrants to deny any connection between high immigration and crime. But unless we can prevent immigrants from having children, a high level of immigration translates to increased levels of crime. Between the foreign-born generation and their American children, the incarceration rate of Mexican-Americans jumps more than eightfold, resulting in an incarceration rate that is 3.45 times higher than that of whites, according to an analysis of 2000 census data by the pro-immigrant Migration Policy Institute.
California, with one-quarter of the nation’s immigrants and its greatest concentration of Mexicans and Central Americans, is the bellwether state for all things relating to unbridled Hispanic immigration, including crime. The Children of Immigrants Longitudinal Study, conducted by sociologists Alejandro Portes of Princeton and Rubén G. Rumbaut of the University of California, Irvine, followed the children of immigrants in San Diego and Miami from 1992 to 2003. A whopping 28 percent of Mexican-American males between the ages of 18 and 24 reported having been arrested since 1995, and 20 percent reported having been incarcerated—a rate twice that of other immigrant groups. Anyone who speaks to Hispanic students in immigrant-saturated schools in Southern California will invariably hear the estimate that 50 percent of a student’s peers have ended up in gangs or other criminal activities.
Gang life—both Hispanic and black—immediately asserted itself last July when the Los Angeles Unified School District opened a model high school to ease overcrowding. Despite amenities that rival those of private schools—a swimming pool, Mac computers, a ballet studio, a rubber track, and a professional chef’s kitchen—it instantly gained the distinction of being one of the most violent campuses in the system. Shots rang out in front of the school on the second day of classes, reports the Los Angeles Times, and three days after opening ceremonies, police arrested a student with an AK-47 on the campus perimeter. Brawling students attacked safety officers and tried to grab their guns in December, while cops pepper-sprayed a dean breaking up a gang fight in March. Students sell meth in the classrooms, graffiti covers the stairwells, textbooks, and high-design umbrella-covered picnic tables, and a trip to the bathroom requires an adult safety escort.
Uncertain assimilation. Multicultural cheerleaders argue that assimilation is proceeding apace by pointing to the fact that virtually all third-generation Hispanics can speak English. Even so, linguistic and cultural segregation among Hispanics is increasing. The percentage of Hispanics living in Hispanic enclaves rose from 39 percent in 1990 to 43 percent in 2000, reports Robert Samuelson, and as more and more aliens from Mexico and Central America enter, the size of Spanish-speaking-only areas expands. Livia, the unmarried mother selling fruit on Santa Ana’s Main Street, says that no one she associates with speaks English. A coffee-shop owner down the block observes that it’s too easy in Santa Ana not to learn English. “It’s all Spanish-speaking here,†she says. In California, the academic achievement gap between students with little English and English speakers is widening.
Meanwhile, taxpayers are footing the bill for interpreters across a host of government functions and for the translation of countless government documents. California spends $82.7 million a year on criminal-court interpreters for those 40 percent of its residents who speak a language other than English at home. At the same time, Spanish may be developing into a language of cultural assertion and opposition. A Hispanic resident of El Paso told New York’s radio station WNYC in May that teen workers in fast-food and other retail outlets regularly refuse to answer her in English when she addresses them. At a city council meeting this March in Maywood, California, the illegal-alien sanctuary, a resident suggested that a council member was using English as a sign of disrespect. All this adds up to a significant, and accelerating, transformation of American culture.
Pro-amnesty forces promote the Ellis Island conceit that illegal immigrants “risk everything for the dream of freedom,†as President Bush put it in his May address. The president’s assessment, while flattering, is not particularly accurate. However lousy the Mexican economy, there are few if any political freedoms enjoyed by Americans that Mexico denies. It is the Yanqui dollar, not untasted freedom, that brings the vast majority of illegals here. “The dream that most of us hold on to is the Mexican dream,†Efrain Jimenez, an official with the Federation of Zacatecan Clubs of Southern California, told me last year. “The Mexican dream is to make enough money to go back and own your own business. Four-fifths of Mexicans here would say that if they had a job in Mexico, they’d go back right away.†Most Mexican immigrants do not intend to become Americans; they come wanting to return to their home country, but end up staying out of inertia. They naturalize at half the rate of Asians or Europeans. This is not a recipe for assimilation.
Mexico’s Posturing Elites
The immigration mess has produced one compensation: the pleasure of watching the blowhard posturing of Mexico’s elites. Molière’s comic buffoons never achieved the sheer perfection of hypocrisy, gall, and self-abasement on almost daily display from the Mexican diplomatic and political corps.
The obsession with the Yanqui imperialist next door is Mexico’s most serious wasting disease. Keeping the specter of Yanqui interference alive means blaming the U.S. for all of Mexico’s problems and asserting Mexico’s incapacity to solve those problems on its own. Yet this renunciation of agency does not entail humility. To the contrary, the more insistent the claim that Mexico can do nothing for itself, the louder its leaders roar, and the more aggressively they denounce their savior and nemesis.
A recent entry in this ongoing performance is a May 4 New York Times op-ed by Jorge Castañeda, former Mexican foreign minister and currently a professor of Latin American and Caribbean studies at New York University. As foreign minister, Castañeda played hardball, arguing that unless the U.S. gave Mexico what he called the “full enchilada,†that is, amnesty for its illegal migrants and a much higher immigration ceiling, it would . . . it would . . . well, in truth it would do nothing but increase its furious criticism of American abuses.
In his Times op-ed, Castañeda continues his “amnesty or else†theme, but this time he has actually come up with an “or elseâ€: the further leftward lurch of Mexico and Latin America.
Castañeda distinguishes between two kinds of leftism: the “wrong†nationalist Left and the good “progressive†Left. (We will pass over his classically Latin American belief in the good Left.) The “wrong part of the Left†is gaining ground in Latin America, Castañeda says, in the persons of Venezuela’s Hugo Chávez, Bolivia’s Evo Morales, and Andrés Manuel López Obrador, a candidate in Mexico’s July 2 presidential race. If López Obrador were to take the Mexican presidency (which as of this writing he apparently has failed to do, though he has not conceded), the “wrong†Left could end up “controlling a 2,000-mile border with the United States,†Castañeda declares.
Whose responsibility is it to prevent the bad Left from taking over Mexico? America’s, of course! After warning of a return of the “corrupt authoritarian machinery that governed Mexico for 70 years,†Castañeda follows with a non sequitur: “This is where leadership on immigration reform from George W. Bush and broad-minded Republican senators comes in.†Someone not stricken with Yanqui obsession might think that it is up to Mexicans to keep a destructive ideology out of their own house. But that hypothesis assumes agency on the part of El Norte’s oppressed southern neighbor. Castañeda knows better. Rather, it is up to the U.S. to “strengthen support for Mexico’s policies of the last decade†by passing “sensible†immigration reform and thus blocking the rise of López Obrador.
Castañeda notes more in sorrow than in anger that after Mexican president Vicente Fox “staked much of his prestige on President Bush’s commitment to fix immigration policyâ€â€”meaning, of course, opening the American border up further—â€Mr. Bush left Mr. Fox empty-handed.†Castañeda is willing to forgive, however, so long as the U.S. lives up to its responsibility to “give Mr. Fox a huge boost†by granting an amnesty and liberalizing its immigration rules.
One can think of many ways in which President Fox could have given himself—and his party’s designated successor, Felipe Calderón—a huge boost. Purging corruption in the police forces and throughout government, freeing entrepreneurs from crippling regulations, ending state control of vital industries, and encouraging and protecting foreign investment are but a few. Such actions, however, would require dismantling the status quo. It is much easier to demand that the U.S. open the border safety valve further, so that millions of surplus Mexicans, unable to find opportunity for advancement in the lethargic, overregulated Mexican economy, can escape rather than revolt.
As a former diplomat, Castañeda can snarl as well as wheedle and whine. He warns that nothing could offer “better proof†to the wrong Left of “America’s not-so-benign neglect and imperial arrogance as further paralysis on immigration.†Oh, dear. Here Castañeda has been playing the good leftie to Hugo Chávez’s and Evo Morales’s bad leftie, and now it turns out that there is not much difference between them. Both kinds of leftie at heart view the U.S. as a malign imperial force, despite its billions in foreign aid and the blanket of security protection that it offers Latin America.
Like the maestro that he is, Castañeda saves his most brilliant move for the end. After a column devoted to the proposition that it is America’s responsibility to keep the bad lefties out of Mexico’s presidential palace, Castañeda pulls out that hoariest of conspiracy theories: American meddling in Mexican sovereignty! By opening its borders fully, Castañeda explains, the U.S. would encourage Mexican political “continuity . . . without interfering in its neighbor’s political process.†Just when you thought that Castañeda’s combination of chest-thumping bravado, cultivated helplessness, and hypocrisy could not get any more shameless, he tops himself. Hardly a day goes by when Mexican officials don’t hand out identification cards to illegal Mexicans in the U.S. and promote the cards as a de facto legalizing device, don’t advise their citizens about safe illegal travel into the U.S., and don’t berate American policymakers for distinguishing illegal from legal migrants. Yet here is Castañeda snappishly warning against American political interference, even as he demands that America guarantee President Fox’s political legacy.
A more economically and psychologically stable southern neighbor would benefit the U.S. enormously, but it would come at a considerable cost in entertainment value.
Principle 5: Prefer local decision makers over remote elites. Illegal immigration has prompted a powerful grassroots democratic reaction, as people in areas most affected by Hispanic immigration try to regain control of their communities. Cities, counties, and states have passed laws to regulate day-laborer sites, to push employers into compliance with immigration laws, to allow police officers to cooperate with federal immigration agents, to prevent illegal aliens from collecting welfare and from voting, and to tighten driver’s-license requirements, among other initiatives.
After appeals from illegal-alien advocacy groups, judges have struck down many of these laws. Ordinarily, conservatives would deplore such thwarting of the people’s will. When it comes to illegal immigration, however, they side with the elites in robes and on Capitol Hill who dismiss the public as know-nothing rubes. Open-borders conservatives denounce California’s Proposition 187 as vehemently as any Hispanic activist, even though the judicially overruled referendum—which denied nonemergency free health care and free public education to illegal aliens—was simply a cry for help from California taxpayers, struggling with the enormous strains that illegal aliens were putting on their state’s social welfare systems.
Conservatives have historically trusted local decision making over distant Washington solutions. The tradition of federalism holds that people closest to a problem are best able to assess and resolve it. Yet the open-borders Right waves away the fervent local lawmaking around illegal immigration as merely an outbreak of xenophobia. Would such conservative legalizers argue that the 63 cities and counties that founded the Coalition of Mayors and County Executives for Immigration Reform, a movement trying to alert Washington to the burdens of illegal immigration, have been taken over by racists? Do they really think that they themselves see matters more clearly than angry local residents whose local hospital has gone bankrupt under the strain of serving immigrants with no insurance, or than parents who no longer feel welcome in their local schools, or than business owners harmed by the crowds of day laborers on the sidewalk who scare their customers away?
Connecticut’s Greenwich Hospital recently treated an illegal Guatemalan with severe drug-resistant TB, after his local hospital in Port Chester, New York, had gone bust from uninsured immigrants. The uncompensated bill for two and a half months of in-patient treatment totaled $200,000, not including the fees for the numerous specialists on the case, which probably added another $100,000 to $150,000. One surgery alone to remove a crippling accretion on his spine—a condition unknown outside the Third World—lasted an entire day. All of the Guatemalan’s associates tested positive for TB, and all worked in restaurants, reports his surgeon, Dr. Katrina Firlik, in the Wall Street Journal. Such episodes, invisible to conservative elites, make a deep impression on local taxpayers and insurance policyholders.
Arizona and California lawmakers want to free taxpayers from the nearly $1 billion a year burden of detaining illegal criminals—and the even costlier burden of detaining those illegals’ children. In Fresno, now 45 percent Hispanic, 20 percent of the county jail inmates are illegal immigrants, as are about one-quarter of emergency-room patients. No wonder Fresno’s mayor called in November 2005 for securing the border. The county of Riverside, California, voted in April to start turning in its illegal-alien jail inmates—who make up between 12 and 25 percent of its inmate population—to the Immigration and Customs Enforcement, joining a handful of jail systems now abandoning the long-standing taboo against checking criminals’ immigration status. Naturally, immigrant advocates in Southern California have branded the new policy a civil rights violation.
Lived experience fuels these citizen movements for immigration control. If conservatives dismiss them as delusional, the Republican Party will pay dearly at the polls. Rather than dismissing the public’s anguish over large-scale lawbreaking, conservatives should honor the public’s commitment to the sanctity of the legislative will.
The proponents of amnesty have manufactured an artificial crisis. They say that it is imperative to legalize the millions of illegals here now, so that the illegals can “come out of the shadows.†In reality, the minor inconveniences imposed by illegal status are nothing more than what the illegals bargained for. Illegal aliens have no legitimate claim to be legalized before the country makes sure that its border control is working. Enforcement must precede a liberalization of immigration rules—which is why “comprehensive†immigration reform (the conservative code word for amnesty and increased levels of immigration) is not the solution to our border crisis but rather a guarantee of continued anarchy. Amnesty and the impossibility of enforcing a complicated new immigration scheme will undermine border control, just as they did in 1986. The first item of business on the conservative agenda should be enforcing the law already on the books.
But the most important value that conservatives can bring to this debate is honesty. Many of the costs imposed by Mexican immigrants are a function of their lack of education, their low incomes, and their own and their children’s behavior, not their legal status. Without question, we must balance those costs against the immigrant generation’s admirable work ethic. But immigration reform that institutionalizes the present immigration mix—or, worse, increases its volume by three to five times—is certain to expand the Hispanic underclass. There are many educated foreigners patiently waiting for permission to migrate to the United States. The United States can better honor its immigrant heritage by accelerating their entry rather than by continuing to favor the most low-skilled of our neighboring populations.
Texano78704
I was referring to the heritage, culture and language of THIS country since its formation, not the whole damned continent!
I know. However, those things are not “natural†or “of nature.†Every post you make on the subject does indicate that you believe that Manifest Destiny is natural, however.
Whites are not exterminating other cultures in this country. That is another one of your lies!
I did not say that. Try going back and reading what I actually wrote.
The term “anti-immigrant” rhetoric isn’t true because we do not demonize LEGAL immigrants in our country
You have said that a number of times, yet do not offer any proof. I will give you yet another example.
One of the two Ecuadorian men beaten in Brooklyn while their attackers screamed anti-gay and anti-Hispanic slurs was declared brain died after lingering for several days on life support, according to sources. Investigators say Jose Sucuzhañay, 31, was walking home with his brother Romel at the intersection of Kossuth Place and Bushwick Avenue early Sunday morning.
The two brothers were arm-in-arm and one brother stopped to give the other his coat. According to police, that’s when four men jumped out of a burgundy Ford Explorer and began attacking the brothers. Police say the men were beaten with a bottle and a baseball bat while the attackers yelled anti-gay and anti-Latino slurs.
http://www.ny1.com/content/top_stories/90283/brooklyn-bias-attack-victim-is-brain-dead–say-sources/Default.aspx
Yep, I’m sure there was no “anti-immigrant rhetoric†involved there. You insist that I want more than just human rights for “illegals.†Since I have no idea as to what you are talking about, why not give me a specific example of this? By the way, I’m not the only one that thinks that some form of amnesty is a good option; the majority of the people in this country do too.
Michaela
Horace, great to hear from you. 49 Days, yeah, you will be back in no time! I’m sorry to say you will be returning to a very angry America. The Latinos in our country think they have “bought” our new president and they will DEMAND he do their bidding, i.e., CIR. They have brought a lot of resentment and anger into this country with their accusations and whining and Americans have had enough. Be forewarned.
Michaela
And let’s don’t forget that this invasion is deliberate and planned and the battle of “words” used against Americans is just one of their despicable tactics. As one of the founders of the Reconquista movement said:
“WE CALL THINGS RACISM JUST TO GET ATTENTION. WE REDUCE COMPLICATED PROBLEMS TO RACISM, NOT BECAUSE IT IS RACISM……
BUT BECAUSE IT WORKS.”
Alfredo Gutierrez
Sandra
Texano,
Are you denying that Mexico is Hispanic numerically and culturally? That China is numerically and culturally Asian? Many if not most countries have a traditional society as does the U.S. and that society will fight back if threatened with an unnatural demographic change as in illegal immigration and rightly so.
Here are your exact words:
“Can white people continue to be the majority in the U.S. and Canada without being called racists… They can if they stop insisting on EXTERMINATING everyone else’s culture or at least be tolerant of other cultures in this country.”
What you pro-illegals do is post articles about crimes against Latinos whether they be here legally or illegally and then suggest that it represents what the majority of Americand do and think. These crimes are only committed by fringe radical groups and individuals and do not represent the norm anymore than crimes against Blacks, Whites or any other ethnic group in this country does.
There is no overall anti-legal”immgrant” feelings in this country. There is however a distaste for illegal immigration by most Americans. Latinos represent the majority of illegals in this country and therefore the nutcases just see someone who looks Latino and act upon it but their actions do not represent what most Americans do.
Texano78704
Well, nice job Sandra. I see you can copy and paste my quote. The question is, do you understand the meaning of it. The “if” in my statement does not mean that I am making a statement of fact. Do you deny that there are those in this country that are promoting cultural supremacy for some supposed unique, “American” culture?
Many if not most countries have a traditional society as does the U.S. …
That is a debatable statement. It is true that there many countries with a homogeneous society, but there are also countries with mix of peoples like the US.
What you pro-illegals do is post articles about crimes against Latinos whether they be here legally or illegally and then suggest that it represents what the majority of Americand do and think.
Sorry, I do not believe you. Please show me a specific example of this. It is clear that hate crimes against Latinos are on the rise. From this, we can infer that there is a rise of anti-Latino sentiment. You, on the other hand, tell us that, as part of “anti-immigrant rhetoric,” those sentiments are non-existent. Most… some… none. Three very different words, Sandra.
Irma
Sandra,
There is no traditional society in the US.
In the Northeast, they consider any state that wasnt one of the original 13 colonies
as yahoos and not really Americans.
Texans think that the rest of the US is
well, inferior. Southerners view Northerners as crooks and Northerners view Southerners as stupid. Most of the
country views California as just plain strange.
There is no typical American food.
Hot dogs are German. Pizza is Italian.
Tacos are Mexican. Apple pie, thats
English.
The only thing that I can think of that is
“typically American” if such a thing exists is American music – jazz, blues
and yes rock and roll. Blue grass etc
is definitely European in its origin.
Baseball is English in origin and so is football.
From this perspective, American culture
is primarily African American.
The majority of illegal immigrants in Massachusetts are IRISH. This doesnt seem to bother you. Why not?
I wish every illegal immigrant of any origin would leave the US for about a week – then you would see how important they are to our economy.
New York City would shut down, so would Los Angeles, the agricultural
industry would lose millions of dollars a day. Hundreds of thousands of people would call into work to report that they had to stay home with their children.
Hospitals and restauarants and hotels would be unable to maintain hygienic
practices because there was no one to do the cleaning.
America has grown dependent on cheap illegal labor. The solution is to legalize
all cheap labor – otherwise there will be
a further collapse of the American economy.
Sandra
Texano, no I don’t deny that there are white supremists in this country anymore that I would deny that there are brown supremists in this country also. But what you fail to understand is that they are fringe groups and individuals, not the norm. So why harp about a minority of nutcases when they don’t represent the majority? Your side does it to play the race card and play the victim en masse.
Nice try on trying to wiggle out of your claim that whites are trying to exterminate other cultures in this country. That is exactly what you said! You said “if they stop insisting” which means that is what you think they are doing already. The word “stop” is your clue.
We may have mixed cultures in this country but so does Mexico! But both of these countries have a majority ethnic population and culture and you know it.
As I said, there is no anti-“immigrant” sentiment only anti-illegal immigration sentiment. As for Latino citizens, if you lie down with dogs you are bound to get fleas. You reap what you sow. But that still doesn’t mean that crimes against Latinos are rampant in this country. They may be increasing however due to their ever increasing numbers in our population and much of it from illegal immigration. Do the math! The answer is for Latino citizens to not aid and abet illegal aliens and to deter illegal immigration from their group.
Texano78704
So why harp about a minority of nutcases when they don’t represent the majority? Hmmm, I would answer that, but for the fact that your question followed immediately with this statement:
Your side does it to play the race card and play the victim en masse.
Ironic… you make a statement that sums up your own assertions.
You keep repeating to yourself that there is no “anti-immigrant sentiment” as if it were self-proving and in spite of the fact that there is evidence to the contrary that has already been presented.
Horace
“You keep repeating to yourself that there is no “anti-immigrant sentiment” as if it were self-proving and in spite of the fact that there is evidence to the contrary that has already been presented.”
Illegal immigrants are not immigrants under our laws. We recognize only those who follow our immigration laws as immigrants, else masses of Asians would come teeming across our shores without bothering to apply for visas or getting medical examinations, or having background checks or visas. Anyone who hasn’t applied to the people of the United States through their lawfully elected government, and consonant with their constitutionaly valid laws, has no claim to be an immigrant. They are unlawful entrants deserving of the punishment commensurate with that status, which nine times out of ten includes deportation. Everyone in that status should be treated equally, including those Hispanics who attempt to defeat the system. Anyone who disagrees does not believe in the priciple of equal justice under our laws, and is not a patriot.
Jason
Marisa is right, there is a growing feeling of dislike for Hispanics in this country, but it is the bullying sense of entitlement that just because they can outprocreate the rest of the population, they are entitled to special consideration. If you can’t gain respect by deed, do it be numbers. Well, it doesn’t work that way. Success by merit still means a great deal to Americans, and judging by school drop-out rate by Latinos, they’ll never become equal to the Asians and other ethnic groups in this country. If they win, it will be in numbers and by voting to raise taxes to benefit their forever persistent and expanding poor. Yes, someday it will be your turn, but by then this country won’t be much of a nation.
Michaela
Irma said:
“Texans think that the rest of the US is
well, inferior.”
Well gee Irma, I’m from Texas. I didn’t know that I considered the rest of the US as inferior.
No disrespect Irma, but where do you come up with these blatant generalizations?
Sandra
Irma, stay in denial all you want but we do have a traditiontal white majority along with an identifying culture and language and have since this country’s founding. Sorry it bothers you enough to deny it. I am not bothered that the Hispanic culture and Spanish is the language of most Latino countries. All countries have the right to retain their traditional societies and cultures without interference from an illegal invasion of their countries.
Where did I say that I don’t object to Irish illegals or any other non-latino illegal alien group? I want ALL illegals gone including the Irish ones. Nice try at the race card though.
Our country would survive just fine with illegal aliens in our midst. There might be some adjustment in replacing them with legal immigrant or citizen labor at first but our country would bounce back in no time and we would be back to a country of laws, not lawlessness. The greedy and corrupt employers would have to follow the law for a change. I don’t have a problem with legal immigrant labor at all as long as it can be proven that a job can’t be filled by a citizen at a fair wage.
We also need to take into consideration our population growth when deciding how many immigrants we can absorb each year. I am for a smaller economy to fit a smaller population. Much more sustainable in the long run.
Texano, what I said is there is no anti-“immigrant” rhetoric or racism on the part of most Americans. There is much objection to illegal immigration, however. You fail to seperate the two groups.
Texano78704
Wow, Horace. So if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and walks like a duck, it’s not a duck because you say so?
Everyone in that status should be treated equally, including those Hispanics who attempt to defeat the system.
As you already know, they are not treated equally, though not for the reasons you assert. “Hispanics” that manage to reach dry land here in the US and who are from Cuba are automatically given legal residency in this country.
Liquidmicro
“As you already know, they are not treated equally, though not for the reasons you assert. “Hispanics” that manage to reach dry land here in the US and who are from Cuba are automatically given legal residency in this country.”
Do you really believe what you say?? Or do you just think it and not research it, I suggest the research.
“The wet foot, dry foot policy is the name given to a consequence of the 1995 revision of the Cuban Adjustment Act of 1966 that says, essentially, that anyone who fled Cuba and got into the United States would be allowed to pursue residency a year later. After talks with the Cuban government, the Clinton administration came to an agreement with Cuba that it would stop admitting people found at sea. Since then, in what has become known as the “wet foot, dry foot” policy, a Cuban caught on the waters between the two nations (i.e., with “wet feet”) would summarily be sent home or to a third country. One who makes it to shore (“dry feet”) gets a chance to remain in the United States, and later would qualify for expedited “legal permanent resident” status and U.S. citizenship.”
Besides they are fleeing from a ‘Communist’ Society, not a Democratic Republic, as is most of South and Central America.
Texano78704
I really do believe “what I say.” My sentence is essentially the same as your paragraph.
As for “fleeing from a Communist society,” please explain why Chinese and Vietnamese immigrants are not treated the same way as Cubans.
Liquidmicro
“As you already know, they are not treated equally, “Hispanics” that manage to reach dry land here in the US and who are from Cuba are automatically given legal residency in this country.”
In essence what you are insinuating is, that if C and S Americans or who ever can make it through the border region without being caught, they should be given automatic citizenship.
Sorry but your statement does not essentially say what the policy is. Not all Cubans which reach ‘dry land’ are granted automatic citizenship, there have been those that have been returned to Cuba. One who makes it to shore (“dry feet”) gets a chance to remain in the United States, and later would qualify for expedited “legal permanent resident” status and U.S. citizenship. There’s something about these couple of words above, ‘chance’ and ‘later’, but I’m sure you understand what they mean, right??
The Chinese and Vietnamese have different agreements with the USA in regards to their people leaving. Look to the Cuban Migration Agreement, the Chinese Migration Agreement, and the Vietnamese Migration Agreements. You can surely do the research yourself now, since I have given you the search words. You would have done better by bringing up North Korea. You need to understand the policies and the agreements that are had between the USA and each Government before making and assuming such broad based generalizations.
Irma
Michaela,
I am from Texas too – am I am think , considerably older than you. I guess Texans dont teach their children anymore that our state is the best state in the US anymore. An international border, a coastline- fact is
Texas doesnt actually need the US.
It is the only state in the country that can fly its flag at the same height as the US. My elementary school had 2 flag poles just for that purpose..
Michaela
Irma, of course they don’t teach that anymore. Why? Because we are inundated with illegal Mexicans and their abettors who are trying to change the demographics of this once great state. They do not teach these illegals about Texas. They teach them to be victims and to hate America.
Michaela,
I am from Texas too – am I am think , considerably older than you. I guess Texans dont teach their children anymore that our state is the best state in the US anymore. An international border, a coastline- fact is
Texas doesnt actually need the US.
Liquidmicro
“It is the only state in the country that can fly its flag at the same height as the US. My elementary school had 2 flag poles just for that purpose..”
Are you people really this ignorant?? Do your research before such blatant statements of fallacy.
It is an urban legend. All states can fly a state flag at the same height as the United States flag. However, if both flags are on the same flagpole, the U.S. flag code states that the United States flag must be on top.
This urban legend has been spread by word of mouth for many years, but started appearing on the internet by at least 1994 on lists such as “useless facts†and “Texas facts.â€
Snopes – Urban Legends Reference Pages
High Flier
Claim:
Federal law allows only the Texas state flag to be flown at the same height as the U.S. national flag.
Status:
FALSE.
Urban legend
It is a common urban legend that the Texas flag is the only state flag that is allowed to fly at the same height as the U.S. flag. Allegedly, Texas has this right inherently (as a former independent nation) or because it negotiated special provisions when it joined the Union (this version has been stated as fact on a PBS website). However, the legend is false. Neither the Joint Resolution for Annexing Texas to the United States nor the Ordinance of Annexation contain any provisions regarding flags. According to the United States Flag Code, any state flag can be flown at the same height as the U.S. flag; the U.S. flag should be on its right (the viewer’s left), however. Consistent with the U.S. Flag Code, the Texas Flag Code specifies that the state flag should either be flown below the U.S. flag if on the same pole or at the same height as the U.S. flag if on separate poles.
Irma
LIquid Micro,
The burden to prove what I learned in school is on you. Produce both documents.
Liquidmicro
I gave you the information above, the burden of proof of your statement is your burden not mine. You made a statement and presented no factual evidence to back it up, ignorance that stands out in the open. Might I suggest you look up the Flag Codes of the USA, the State of Texas and every other state in the union. Here, for your own learning experience, from one Red state and one Blue state. The rest you can look up yourself.
Texas Flag Code:
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/ViewChapter.aspx?key=gv.3100.001
Sec. 3100.055. DISPLAY ON FLAGPOLE OR FLAGSTAFF WITH FLAG OF UNITED STATES. (a) If it is necessary for the state flag and the flag of the United States to be displayed on the same flagpole or flagstaff, the United States flag should be above the state flag.
(b) If the state flag and the flag of the United States are displayed on flagpoles or flagstaffs at the same location:
(1) the flags should be displayed on flagpoles or flagstaffs of the same height;
(2) the flags should be of approximately equal size;
(3) the flag of the United States should be, from the perspective of an observer, to the left of the state flag;
(4) the flag of the United States should be hoisted before the state flag is hoisted; and
(5) the state flag should be lowered before the flag of the United States is lowered.
For the State of Washington:
http://www.secstate.wa.gov/flag/other_flags.aspx
When the Washington State flag and the U.S. flag are displayed on separate flagpoles, the flagpoles should be of equal height and the Washington State flag should be approximately the same size as, but never larger than, the U.S. flag. The U.S. flag should be flown from the position of honor on the flag’s own right, or from the flagpole on the left as normally viewed by the observer. The Washington State flag should be flown from the second position of honor, or from the flagpole on the right as normally viewed by the observer.
I can go on, but I think you get the idea now. I disagree you were taught in school that the Texas Flag is the only state flag in the nation to fly with the US flag at the same height, as I was born in San Antonio (60’s) and raised (70’s – early 80’s) in Texas and was never taught this BS.
Texano78704
In essence what you are insinuating is, that if C and S Americans or who ever can make it through the border region without being caught, they should be given automatic citizenship.
No, in essence, I am not. I am stating that, to use your term, Hispanics are not all treated equally. If you want to pretend to score points over “chance” and “later,” feel free to do so. My point was that Cubans, who would qualify as “Hispanics.” are treated quite differently than say Guatemalans. And in essence, your remark about fleeing a communist country is bologna, just as the remark about an immigrant worker is not a worker.
Liquidmicro
Using my term?? What is my term?? Please, point it out.
Here, I’ll play your game…. How are Cubans, who would qualify as “Hispanics” treated differently than say Guatemalans??
My remark about Cubans fleeing a Communist Country is bologna?? So, Tex, lets play your game, explain your statements since you are attempting to make this a racist argument. Point out where I have made a remark about an immigrant worker is not a worker.
Might I suggest you quit peeing into the wind, your getting all wet.
Texano78704
Gee, micro, is it really that hard to follow along? Cubans automatically have the opportunity to become US residents whereas others from Central and South America do not. As for the remark about workers, I was referring to Horace’s comment. Try to keep up.
Liquidmicro
I thought that this was already established – Cubans have the opportunity to become US residents, do to them fleeing from a Communist Society, whereas others from Central and South America do not qualify, due to them seeking economic gain.
Are you done talking in circles?? or are you going to come up with something new?? Since you deny your insinuation of, if C and S Americans (Hispanics) can make it through the border region without being caught, they should be given an opportunity for citizenship like the Cubans, then what is it you are trying to actually say??
Texano78704
Come on! In general there is nothing different about the motivations for Cubans trying to get to the US than any other immigrant from any other country, Spanish speaking or otherwise.
To restate, again, not all “Hispanic” immigrants to this country are treated equally. Cubans are one example.
Liquidmicro
Come on! Cubans live under the oppression of a Dictator and Communist Government. They leave for fear of persecution and seek political asylum.
The majority of C & S Americans come here only to gain economic prosperity for themselves. They send money home to build homes for themselves for their retirements and to purchase the wants and needs of their kids that were left with Grandma and Grandpa.
I do agree that not all Hispanics are treated the same in coming to the USA by way of ‘breaking in’. But until C & S Americans have either a Dictator or Communist Society to escape from, I see no reason to treat them the same. Look also at those that are here from Storm damaged S American Countries, they just had extensions given to them.
Texano78704
They leave for fear of persecution and seek political asylum.
This, no doubt, comes from Liquidmicro’s annual poll of Cuban immigrants. I would argue that they do it for two credible reasons. One, to “gain economic prosperity.” And two, they have an automatic opportunity to gain residency in a prosperous North American country only fifty miles away by sea.
Unlike their Cuban comrades, a lot of Central and South Americans lack access to medical care and public education. Consequently, they flee the persecution of overwhelming poverty.
Liquidmicro
“This, no doubt, comes from Liquidmicro’s annual poll of Cuban immigrants.”
And you have factually disproved what is stated by USCIS?? With what, your unresounding intellect??
“a lot of Central and South Americans lack access to medical care and public education.”
So then why don’t those living in the rural areas then move to the urban areas of their own countries, you know, where the countries money is to help them??
http://www.worldfoodprize.org/assets/YouthInstitute/06proceedings/DesMoinesChristianHS.pdf
“Many of the countries in the
region face income inequality where the wealth of the nation is concentrated in urban areas. This is
particularly true in Brazil which ranks second only behind South Africa in unequal distribution of wealth.
In fact the bottom 20% income bracket accounts for only 2.4 % of the income in Brazil (rural poverty).
Often, in recent years, South American governments have actually hurt instead of helped their rural
population by placing the vast amount of their investments in the international market rather than keeping
the money within the country.”
So blame their Governments, it still does not allow them the free pass across our borders for which you earlier denied wanting all C & S Americans treated as the Cubans. This also makes a real good point about NOT globalizing our world: “South American governments have actually hurt instead of helped their rural
population by placing the vast amount of their investments in the international market rather than keeping
the money within the country.” Maybe this is a learnable mistake that the USA can pick up on before its to late.
Liquidmicro
By the way Texano, you’re making a very good argument as to why we should also stop Cuban migration with the wet/dry foot rule (Cuban immigrants, I would argue that they do it for two credible reasons. One, to “gain economic prosperity.” And two, they have an automatic opportunity to gain residency in a prosperous North American country only fifty miles away by sea.).
I agree, Cubans should be treated as equals to those from C & S America and sent back to their countries of origin if found here to be Illegal Aliens.
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