By Earl Ofari Hutchinson
LatinaLista
Earl Ofari Hutchinson is an author, syndicated columnist, political analyst and commentator. He has been a guest on the Today Show, Dateline, The Lehrer Hour, and BET News, America’s Black Forum. He is a frequent commentator for the American Urban Broadcast Network and Ed Gordon’s News and Notes on NPR. He is a featured columnist for BlackNews.com, BlackAmericaWeb.com, and Alternet.org. He is associate editor of New America Media.
In addition to his many accomplishments, Hutchinson is the author of the new book: The Latino Challenge to Black America: Towards a Conversation Between African-Americans and Hispanics.
The book examines the hot button issues and problems that conflict and unite blacks and Latinos. It looks at how both groups interpret and see those issues and problems through the prism of their experiences. The book will be published jointly in Spanish and English.
Even before the shocking killings in Newark, New Jersey of three black students allegedly by Latino illegal immigrants Latino-on-black and black-on-Latino violence took two other appalling forms.
In 2005, Latino men were robbed, beaten and even murdered in Plainfield, New Jersey, in Jacksonville, Florida, and in Annapolis, Maryland, and seven members of a Latino family were murdered in Indianapolis. The attackers in all cases were young black males.
The men attacked were mostly undocumented workers, and police speculated that the attackers regarded them as easy prey for robbery since they would be reluctant to report the attacks to the police.
Was the motive for the attacks simply robbery? Or were they racially motivated as well?
No matter what the motive, many Hispanics fervently believed that they were under siege from the blacks because they were Hispanic and immigrants. This reinforced the old racial stereotypes about blacks.
A relative of one of those attacked in Jacksonville pulled no punches: “The vast majority of morenos (blacks) are hard workers, but the rest of them want to live for free.†He painted blacks with the broad brush of stereotypes; that should be condemned.
Yet it’s hard for anyone to be objective when a loved one has been killed or injured when they perceive the attack to have been racially motivated.
Though the robberies, beatings and killings by blacks of Latinos in those cities were shocking, Los Angeles continued to dominate the headlines when it came to black and Latino violence. Four months before black teen Cheryl Green was murdered in December 2006 allegedly by Latino gang members, five Latino members of the Avenues gang were convicted on federal hate crime charges and were slapped with life sentences.
The U.S. Attorney tagged their crimes as a deadly effort to engage in “ethnic cleansing†during a four-year period that began in the late 1990s. The gang members launched their reign of terror to drive blacks out of the neighborhood. Two young blacks were killed in the violence.
In the next couple of years, according to Los Angeles police reports, there were more than a dozen murder attempts in other parts of Los Angeles by alleged Latino gang members on mostly young blacks that had had no known gang involvement in the latter part of 2006.
A Los Angeles county Human Relations Commission report on hate violence in 2005 found that overall Latinos committed nearly half of the hate attacks in the County, while blacks committed thirty percent of the hate attacks. However, when it was Latino and black violence, the figure for hate violence soared.
Latinos and blacks committed the bulk of the racially motivated hate attacks against each other. Nationally, blacks and Latinos commit about one in five hate crimes, and many of their victims, as in Los Angeles, are other blacks or Latinos.
This represents two more disturbing trends. One is that blacks and Latinos committed the majority of hate crimes in Los Angeles. The other is that hate crimes were increasingly being committed by blacks and Latinos against each other.
In the immediate preceding years before the Green killing, black and Latino hate violence against each other was rare. University of California, Irvine researchers found that of the 500 murders in South Los Angeles between 1999 and 2004, almost all of them were Latino-on-Latino, or black-on-black.
Most residents in mixed black and Latino neighborhoods lived and got along in relative peace. But the increase in black and Latino hate crimes tragically showed that could be changing. This represents another colossal challenge to black and Latino leaders to find ways to stem the violence.
This is in part based on a chapter from Earl Ofari Hutchinson’s forthcoming The Latino Challenge to Black America: Towards a Conversation Between African-Americans and Hispanics (Middle Passage Press, 2007)
Comment(73)
Frank
From what I understand the fued between the Latino and Black communities is because of the huge influx of Latinos (which is due to illegal immigration) into what were once predominantly Black neighborhoods. They feel that their turf is being taken over. Most humans are pretty territorial and it is kind of like a home invasion without permission from the owners. This is just yet another negative of illegal immigration.
Horace
The feud between Latinos and black people is caused by the concerted effort of Latino gangs such as MS-13 and others whose intent is ethnic cleansing. Let’s not mince words here.
Pablo
“They feel that their turf is being taken over. Most humans are pretty territorial and it is kind of like a home invasion without permission from the owners.”
Oh, you mean like what you imperialist Anglos did during the invasion of the Mexican War in 1846?
Que tonterias se emite de las bocas de los Anglos hoy dia!
I am a sixth-generation Latino, with my roots in Arizona and California, but even for us the aftereffects of the humiliation, displacement and generalized arrogance of the Manifest Destiny mindset that permeated the Anglo perpetrators of the Mexican War, all still reverberate.
Y eso es porque siempre aseguramos explicar nuestra historia a los niños, los sobrinos y las sobrinas, de explicar la historia de los niños heroes, la historia de la gente que han sufrido tanto después de la guerra estadounidense.
The humiliation caused by the Anglo troops in VeracruzРfollowed of course by countless other humiliating Anglo invasions of Latin AmericaРwas then followed up by further humiliations of the Latino people here, the deprivation of our property and cultural rights and bans on espa̱ol, on our festivities, on our educational rights despite the requirements of the treaties and the laws, and other broken promises that are too numerous to enumerate.
What you Anglos can’t deal with, is the fact that we’re finally calling you on the obligations and the promises that you made to the Latino people after the Mexican War. We are fine to respect you and welcome you as neighbors here alongside us. But you have to respect us as equals.
Just as we respect your people, property, language, culture, festivities and celebrations, so must you respect ours, as equals, in a region that you invaded by force and brutalized. It is only through such a mutually respectful co-existence that we’ll get along– don’t try to continue perpetrate your arrogant Anglo militaristic and cultural imperialism anymore, cuz it’s not gonna work here. Doesn’t matter what happens among the elites in power– I frankly despise both political parties in the USA, both of which are slaves to money and warmongers in the Middle East and elsewhere. What matters is that at the grass roots, we Latinos are asserting the rights that have long been denied us, and will be denied no longer.
Comprende, mis amigos? Si no, van a aprender muy rapidamente, porque el porvenir va entregarles algunas sorpresas!
Horace
“The humiliation caused by the Anglo troops in Veracruz– followed of course by countless other humiliating Anglo invasions of Latin America– was then followed up by further humiliations of the Latino people here, the deprivation of our property and cultural rights and bans on español, on our festivities, on our educational rights despite the requirements of the treaties and the laws, and other broken promises that are too numerous to enumerate.
What you Anglos can’t deal with, is the fact that we’re finally calling you on the obligations and the promises that you made to the Latino people after the Mexican War. We are fine to respect you and welcome you as neighbors here alongside us. But you have to respect us as equals.”
Still waiting for those promises to be fullfilled? Get over it Pablo! Self-pity and blaming Anglos is why Latin America is in the condition it is today.
Frank
Pablo, are you also incested over the invasion of YOUR ancestors the WHITE Spaniards who did the same thing to the native indians? Or is it just ANGLO WHITES that you wish to demonize? What a double standard hypocricy you and yours go by. Yet you speak the language of the WHITE INVADER SPANIARDS. No problemo, right?
Frank
Pablo, amazing too that after 6 generations you still harbor racism and hatred towards Anglo-Whites. None of your people or those anglos are even alive today. How can you harbor resentment over something that you weren’t even involved in? You weren’t even born yet.
David O.
Frank,
White is White.
David O.
Frank,
Stop using Mock Spanish, it is what White’s use to denigrate those who speak Spanish, especially those from South of the Border.
daniel Maldonado
“Fran” Pablo, are you also incested over the invasion…
hahaha. Do you mean “incensed?”
hahah what does “incested” mean?
Daniel Maldonado
What Hutchinson and almost every other “expert” on this issue repeatedly fail to acknowledge is that there was black on black crime in these neighborhoods well before the Latino moved in.
The experts also neglect to mention that everyday there are millions of Latinos and blacks doing business with each other and living next door to each other with absolutely no problems at all. In fact, they are as friendly with each other as any other neighbors are in any other neighborhood.
Unfortunately, in low income neighborhoods people are packed together like sardines. Along with idleness that stems from the lack of opportunity, a friction builds and is sometimes vented through violence and racism.
Furthermore, young men are targeted by the authorities who patrol these neighborhoods like an occupying army.
In L.A. and in some other parts of CA the wholesale incarceration of black and Latino young men has been occurring since the war on drugs was started.
Tribal and territorial instincts in teen age boys and young men are actually fostered in the criminal justice system in L.A. and CA. Then they are released.
Still, the fact remains that there is black gang vs. black gang, Hispanic gang vs. Hispanic gang, and Hispanic gang vs. black gang. The latter makes the news because 1) it’s “open season” on Latinos in the news and 2) buzz words like “ethnic cleansing” get people to watch and listen to media broadcasts which compete for your viewership. “Ethnic cleansing” also helps book sales.
Listing tit for tat murders of our children and their children is non-productive because at the end of the day everyone is exhausted and nothing is resolved.
It’s just like saying look at how badly the blacks are treated by whites throughout the nation. Although they are treated terribly, it does nothing to resolve the problems in the South Central, Harbour Area and other areas where there is black / Latino conflict.
Lastly, the lack of opportunity and the war on drugs have created a very dangerous narco-trafficking environment with profit margins that are the envy of businessmen everywhere.
We have seen how in the hip-hop culture that race is quite insignificant. Likewise for the sports industry.
Those who lack the talent or who do not have other choices are left to stew in what for them is the devil’s playground.
The “ethnic cleansing” of African Americans by Latinos in L.A. – Harbour Area does not exist. Now enjoy the firme rola: Down aka Kilo
adriana
There is some recent documented evidence suggesting that Latinos and black are not on the verge of a major crime wave or race war.
Check out this article:
http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-oe-rodriguez1oct01,1,5843487.column
Most crime is still white on white, black on black, brown on brown, etc.
The media hypes this stuff up, and people believe it.
People like Horace and Frank have swallowed the myth.
David O.
I’m interested in what our two friends have to say about the secessionist movement in Vermont and in the South.
http://www.atlanticfreepress.com/content/view/2513/81/
Daniel Maldonado
Adriana,
Thank you for the article.
-Daniel
Daniel Maldonado
David: “I’m interested in what our two friends have to say about the secessionist movement in Vermont and in the South.”
Good question. I honestly believe Frank and Horacio deserve their own country. Where they can build a fence around their two lonesome selves. Although it’s just a matter of time before one of us sneaks in steals their jobs. hehe
David O.
Adriana,
Dittos on what Daniel wrote.
🙂
David O.
Is all the ‘black and brown’ violence gang related, as our astute gadflies immediately pulled from the original post or is it random?
Daniel Maldonado
I thinks it’s the drugs. I was a gang member until my 29th birthday. But I was born into and raised in an old East L.A. – San Gabriel Valley construction family.
I had things to lose. I had a place to go everyday where I could earn my own money.
Remove the loquera, the drugs and alcohol, and replace it with opportunity and most of the brown vs. brown, black vs. black and brown vs. black violence will subside.
David O.
Any Californios in your family Daniel?
Daniel Maldonado
David “Any Californios in your family Daniel?”
Actually, no. we’re depression era. My mom was born in Santa Paula, CA in 1927. But my tio John was born in East L.A. a year later. My grandfather and grandmother stayed in MX during the revolution (eran rieleros). I have 3 tios born in Veta Grande, Zacatecas, MX (as was my grandmother, grandpa was from Torreon) and 3 born in CA. All served in WWII with my tio John having 2 Honorable Discharges because the first time he joined my Abuelita Carmelita went to Downtown L.A. to the AAFEES building with his birth certificate and got him out lol, he had lied to get in.
The family was migrant fruit and vegitable pickers throughout Central CA until the war. When my tios were able to send home money to support my Abuelito, Abuelita and my mom, who had now relocated to East L.A.
My mom and dad met at a Denver V.A. hospital where my uncle was staying after being a German prisoner of war. My dad was in the Texas National Guard and lost an ear in Okinawa, JP. The two had beds next to each other.
My tios started the construction company which basically employed all the male cousins and myself. All my tios and mom have passed but most of us remain in construction to this day.
-Daniel
David O.
Very interesting Daniel. Mi Familia is mostly from Cd. Chihuahua and local areas. I’m a Chicano ver. 3.0 and my family’s history parallels yours as well, with a Tia and husband in central Ca who were migrant workers.
Horace
“I’m interested in what our two friends have to say about the secessionist movement in Vermont and in the South.”
There is no real secessionist movement, just disgruntled taxpayers. More troubling is the defacto secessionist movement in California.
“Good question. I honestly believe Frank and Horacio deserve their own country. Where they can build a fence around their two lonesome selves. Although it’s just a matter of time before one of us sneaks in steals their jobs. hehe ”
Tell you what, you Hispanic revolutionaries may have California. We’ll build a fence on our boder and issue you visas when you’d like to cross from Mexifornia to the U.S., after a complete background check, of course. We’ll see if you’re capable of finally making a Hispanic country that isn’t corrupt and perpetually poor. If it works, it will be a first.
Daniel Maldonado
Herbert Horatio Hornblower: “Tell you what, you Hispanic revolutionaries may have California. We’ll build a fence on our boder and issue you visas when you’d like to cross from Mexifornia to the U.S., after a complete background check, of course. We’ll see if you’re capable of finally making a Hispanic country that isn’t corrupt and perpetually poor. If it works, it will be a first.”
And where do I sign?
And for my TX and AZ friends, I’m cuttin’ a deal here solely for CA. This homie is giving away the rancho so I suggest you guys get in line.
We’ll hook up later.
Viva Mexico! Viva Aztlan! Muerto a los Europeos!
miguel
Thanks for giving up California Horace. The Hispanic revolutionaries want to know what area of the country you are moving to with no Hispanics so fencing material will be available when you build your fence?
miguel
To save problems later on Horace, don’t plan on Arizona, Tejas or New Mexico in your first draft. Others might want no part of your country, so do a survey first.
Daniel Maldonado
Miguel: “Thanks for giving up California Horace. The Hispanic revolutionaries want to know what area of the country you are moving to with no Hispanics so fencing material will be available when you build your fence?”
Umm, That was HILARIOUS!
Poor Horace, where you gonna get laborers to build your cerco? Your not gonna build it yourself are you? Look Horace, we’re becoming buds here, I’ll do it for ehh, $1500.00 per sq ft. Oh wait, you insulted my people.
CHALE BUEY!
LooL!
Daniel Maldonado
David: “Very interesting Daniel. Mi Familia is mostly from Cd. Chihuahua and local areas. I’m a Chicano ver. 3.0 and my family’s history parallels yours as well, with a Tia and husband in central Ca who were migrant workers.”
Ahh! A Norteño. Same as my Jefito. My dad was from Monterrey, NL, MX. Are you from El Chuco? I must visit from Mexicali on east to the gul coast. Sueños, but a possibility nevertheless. Chihuahua is the home of Doroteo Arango Arámbula, One of the greatest Mexicanos in modern times.
miguel
“Are you from El Chuco? ” Daniel, David y yo semos de La Esmelda. Pre-Chuco. Ha!
Daniel Maldonado
Miguel: “Are you from El Chuco? ” Daniel, David y yo semos de La Esmelda. Pre-Chuco. Ha!
Wow!
I’m not impressed to often but that is the Real Thing, alright.
-Daniel
David O.
Simon ese. 100% USDA certified chicano.
I’m also an ‘American’ but as hard as I try to assimilate, I still look like a Mexican, or as Frank so lovingly likes to correct us, a Mestizo.
I don’t have green eyes or red hair or freckles for that matter and my gastronomical tolerance puts a limit to haggis, O’possum, pig brains and scrambled eggs, scrapple, Collard Greens, and bludworst and spotted dick. Distilled beverages are not in my culinary list either, but I do love burros de lengua, chile colorado con carne, and gorditas, taquitos and flautas y quesadillas con queso fresco.
Frank
David, who made you the language police in here? I will use any words I like in here as long as its not profanity.
What do you mean, “White is White? Are you saying that you are holding the Whites alive today accountable for the past, even though they weren’t even alive back them? Do you know how ridiculous that is? If you have a dispute over land, take it up with the U.S. government and stop your hatred of Whites who had nothing to do with your accusations.
David O.
“We’ll build a fence on our boder(sic) and issue you visas when you’d like to cross from Mexifornia (sic) to the U.S., after a complete background check, of course. We’ll see if you’re capable of finally making a Hispanic country that isn’t corrupt and perpetually poor. If it works, it will be a first.”
Who is we? You and your tapeworm? Or you and Frank?
We will always cross over because it pisses you off some much.
David O.
Frank,
Don’t use mock spanish, cause it really shows what you are.
Jus trine to hep, U unnerstan.
You also wrote
“White is White? Are you saying that you are holding the Whites alive today accountable for the past?”
Naw just sanctimonious yahoos, you know like you, who annoy me.
Frank
David, Death to Europeans? Assuming you mean Americans of European descent, that is a disgusting remark to make. So you are in favor of genocide or homicide? Remember your ancestors were from Europe too. Still in denial over that?
By the way, I don’t live in the south and I don’t eat the foods you described but I have seen some pretty disgusting things eaten by Mexicans. And you know what they are.
You’re really on a racist kick tonight, aren’t you? As I said, you can’t debate without insulting. Grow up, child!
Frank
Figures a former gangbanger would have no respect for a nation’s laws or borders.
80% of Americans feel exactly the way that Horace and I do. We, as in the 80% of us are going to take this country back. Your little marches and all your whining reconquista talk is going to be your downfall. You hang yourselves more and more everyday.
Horace
My provocative statements succeeded as intended. Daniel and David managed to come out of the closet as Anglo haters and proponents of Aztlan, as I supected they would. They’re no better than the KKK when it comes to expressing hate.
Frank
Its the Klan with a Tan, Horace.
Frank
Horace, I don’t know why Ms. Trevino allows this reconquista, white hating talk in here. She seems to have good credentials and is an American citizen. Why isn’t she outraged over this kind of talk in her blog?
miguel
Frank, you are an arrogant fool. Talking to Horace with you sitting in Marisas room. If you have something to ask of her ask her not your playmate.
Daniel Maldonado
Buey: “Figures a former gangbanger would have no respect for a nation’s laws or borders.”
Former gang member, not gang banger, whatever that is.
Present mechanical contractor and R.E. Developer.
Buey: “Daniel and David managed to come out of the closet as Anglo haters and proponents of Aztlan…”
1) I dont hate anglos
2) I’ve been an Aztlanista since 1974. And it has never been a secret.
David O.
Frank reads what he wants to read,
“David, Death to Europeans? Assuming you mean Americans of European descent, that is a disgusting remark to make. So you are in favor of genocide or homicide? Remember your ancestors were from Europe too. Still in denial over that?
By the way, I don’t live in the south and I don’t eat the foods you described but I have seen some pretty disgusting things eaten by Mexicans. And you know what they are.
You’re really on a racist kick tonight, aren’t you? As I said, you can’t debate without insulting. Grow up, child!”
Well since you are piling on, why not add Russia too, and the Balkans. Genocide or Homicide? Work it Frank, work it some more.
Racist kick? Keep working it Frank, unles of course you and Horace, make up a rare and distinct race, then sure why not.
Debate without insulting? What in tarnation are you talking about?
I’m only here to insult you and Master Horace. Is that a problem?
Disgusting things that Mexicans eat Frank? Stop going to taco bell.
David O.
Horace claims,
“My provocative statements succeeded as intended. Daniel and David managed to come out of the closet as Anglo haters and proponents of Aztlan, as I supected they would. They’re no better than the KKK when it comes to expressing hate.”
You provocateur you! Mexicans don’t have closets pendejo. They have guardaroppas and I don’t hate gabachos, just you, not because you are an ‘American’, because it is the right and just thing to do.
A brujo I know has cast a spell on you two. Just wait and see.
No better than the KKK? Those white people in cone head robes?
I don’t know what to say Horace; I’m speechless, tears are running down my cheeks from laughing so hard.
You and Frank should go on tour. You two are a riot, no, I mean you would cause a riot. Yeah, “The Frank and the Rump Hole Show”.
Batta Bing, Batta Boom.
Frank
Most everything you two and a couple of others in here have had to say is something hateful about anglo-whites. Don’t try to cover your tracks now. All one has to do is read your posts.
Making the kinds of comments made that the U.S. is not a sovereign nation with borders and advocating some kind of takeover of any part of it is treason coming from an American citizen.
David O.
Treason Frank?
Like the Rosenburgs, Aldrich Ames, Robert Hanson and John Walker? Oh man what an honor.
David O.
Miguel comments,
“Frank, you are an arrogant fool. Talking to Horace with you sitting in Marisas room. If you have something to ask of her ask her not your playmate.”
Just like white people, coming over and trying to take over a Latina’s turf.
miguel
David, Going back and reading the posts I have come away with some concerns about the true identities of Frank and Horace. Talking with all the white relatives I have as well as the blacks and asians in my family, the opinions are leaning towards they might be latino trolls because no white group or persons could be as stupid as these two. Just saying that latinos are smart enough to pull it off. Their agenda is to stir discord in the discussions and not to make the slightest effort to create harmony. Any discussion becomes one of harping on the immigration issue. Any question as to their motives becomes one where they jump on the ‘white’ routine. They are good in playing the part, so maybe no, not white.
Opinions?
Daniel Maldonado
To clear things up, I made this statement: “Muerto a los Europeos!”
It was said in jest.
I think most people understood the proper context, FRANK.
Frank
miguel, you mean like the white Spaniards did? You know, your ancestors? It wasn’t Latino turf anyway. Native Indians weren’t Latino.
Illegal immigration isn’t a white issue nor a latino issue. It is about the laws of this country.
David O.
Miguel,
I certainly agree. These people always show up at at any Mexican site, including Mexican cooking sites, to stir things up.
What to do? Just like the arcade game, Whack a Gopher, lets just whack a troll. As Brother Ignacio would say, “Its just for fun”. I mean what else can you do with a troll?.
David O.
Daniel wrote,”
To clear things up, I made this statement: “Muerto a los Europeos!”
It was said in jest.
I think most people understood the proper context, FRANK.”
Daniel we know what you meant. Don’t bother explaining anything to our two educated fools, it only feeds them and gives them a sense of belonging. But we do praise our lovely and gracious hostess.
ÃViva La Hermosa Marissa!
ÃMuerte a los pendejos F&J!
David O.
” Frank :
miguel, you mean like the white Spaniards did? You know, your ancestors? It wasn’t Latino turf anyway. Native Indians weren’t Latino.
Illegal immigration isn’t a white issue nor a latino issue. It is about the laws of this country.”
I think there should be a law against trolling, with stiff penalties and fines.
What a way to start the week. Oh that reminds me I need to go downtown and pick up my Welfare check.
miguel
miguel, you mean like the white Spaniards did? You know, your ancestors? It wasn’t Latino turf anyway. Native Indians weren’t Latino.
Illegal immigration isn’t a white issue nor a latino issue. It is about the laws of this country.
Frank, you continue to insist there is a ‘white’ connection in my past. If so, I hope it is not the same strain you seem to exhibit. That would certainly be cause to start a cull of the gene pool that you might have been spawned in. This thread was not about immigration. It is still not. Go find somewhere else to dwell in your favorite past time of whining that the flood is taking your life over.
David O.
Miguel,
Here’s a similiar take on what our two educated fools seem to be advocating so tenaciously:
“The Nazi ideal of a “community of the people†tapped into German traditions that lauded social harmony over conflict and in addition valued hard work, clean living, and law and order. For the Nazis, this idealized community could never see the light of day unless it was based on racial purity. To this end, the new regime set out to mobilize the nation around certain missions, including the elimination of recognizable social types (and stereotypes) who disturbed the peace or who did not conform to well-established German values, but also those who did not fit into the white “Aryan†race. The Nazi version of the struggle between “us†and “them,†between the “community of the people†and the “enemies of the community,†was not just hostile, but vehement and full of language that dripped with war and images drawn from the Darwinian struggle for survival. In the kind of total-war rhetoric the Nazis used, it followed that mercy and compassion toward all enemies was portrayed as a vice, while intolerance and fanaticism were transformed into virtues. Once social enemies were targeted, the police, the judges, and any number of civil servants were quick to take the initiative and swing into action, even trying to outdo one another in their fealty to the cause of making the new order. The authorities in state and society “below,†in the cultural realm, medicine, welfare, the penal system, and so on, showed they were pleased that Hitler allowed them the flexibility and freedom to implement measures that many of them had only dared to contemplate in earlier years.”
miguel
David, in this context they might be White but certainly not mainstream White. Mainstream does not have such views of intolerance as these two. They are on the fringe of society, not the 80% they want us to think they are in.
Horace
David O: “To clear things up, I made this statement: “Muerto a los Europeos!”
It was said in jest.”
Jack Benny you’re not! If I had made the same outrageous statement in reference to Mexican-Americans you would have gone ballistic and we wouldn’t hear the end of your tirade.
Pertaining to attribution of mine and Frank’s motivations to Nazi doctrine: What a stretch you’ve made, but you couldn’t be farther from the mark. It just shows one how the imagination runs wild when preconceived notions override the facts. Your prejudices float to the surface and reasoning goes out the window.
Daniel Maldonado
Attention Whorace: “David O: “To clear things up, I made this statement: “Muerto a los Europeos!”
It was said in jest.”
Jack Benny you’re not! If I had made the same outrageous statement in reference to Mexican-Americans you would have gone ballistic”
Nope, I wouldve just laughed because I know youre just a clown.
Further, you cannot make this statement because your people have committed genocide in Europe and in the Americas.
Frank
The opposition to the current illegal immigration mess we have in our country today has nothing with Nazism nor White Supremism for most Americans, including myself. When your side has no viable arguments you resort to this kind of mud slinging. How childish!
Even if “my” people had committed genocide in this country, I am not responsible for it. I am not them. I am only linked to them by genetics and it is 200 years later. I am not a genocidal person, you obviously are though with the remarks you have made and now you try to skirt out of it by claimin it was a joke. You are the joke!
No, I am not Spaniard so I am not part of your gene pool. It looks like I should be grateful for that since your gene pool seems to be full of haters of whites and reconquistas.
I only ask that every immigrant come here legally and I don’t care what ethnicity they are.
As far as I know all opinions are welcome in here as long as they are civil. I keep wondering how you and yours keep getting away with your insults in here. That would equate to being a troll to me.
Diana Joe
Frank and Horace are probably little cronies to Glenn Beck,and the-hater as she is often refered to Ann coulter, and all the others that want and insist on certain cultures to AMERIKKKAn assimilation-it aint gonna happened no mo’ master! Black folk have assimilated..folk like Ms. WHOOPIES GOLDBERG that claims to be an all AMERIKKKAn,and vowed openly that she has absolutely no roots to any black origin(AFRIKA)..and others’ that insist that having blue contact lens might place em’ a desk next to Polly-on the corporate floor(literally).Go on Horace and Frank continue to enlighten us with your knowledge of the rule of law..we understand that force too.Crazy Horse now sits upon his horse forever as a reminder to all of us folks(indigenous) to these lands of the NORTH AMERICAS-and interestingly enuf his only a few paces from the MT.Rushingmore-and he was designed by an immigrant POLLACK that understand wholeheartedly the indin ways not just from a one sided perspective.
Deport Lou Dobbs
This has the potential to be a great site due to the great writing of Marisa.
I am rather amused at the ramblings of the trolls. How sad not to have a life. I mean a real life where one goes outside to play and maybe get away from the computer.
OCD
Frank
More childish insults, uncivil remarks, personal attacks and false accusations of those who uphold the rule of law in this country.
Marisa, are these kinds of posts acceptable to you including the un-American reconquista remarks? I would like to know your thoughts on this as there seems to be no way of contacting you thru private e-mail.
I am all for freedom of speech but these kinds of posts are just plain hateful and racist against white Americans and others who are opposed to illegal immigration. Please respond, thanks.
Horace
Diana Joe, you Indians would still be wielding stone axes and living in teepees today if Europeans didn’t land in North America.
Diana Joe
Hey Horace..I love my teepee,and when my husband uses his axe it’s usually in a beautiful way to build ceremonial fires. We are the people that helped the USA win World War 2..the code talkers are humbled old men living humbled old ways. We honor our vets. We love our old people, and we pray for all the races of the earth. You will never forever more-offend me Horace.(it is in my genetic composition to look upon you with compassion)-this does not mean i’m unteachable. American natives were here LONG before COLON. CRISTOBAL is the reason for the genocidal animal that is prevalent in the genetic structures of certain folk..we as native americans are not responsible for what historians with one sided views imposed upon us-we’re cleaning up the teepee horace and you’re welcome to visit when you get ready to respect us and understand that we have a powerful way from way before ColoNus.We did not ask for your way of study-it was force raped upon us…Washington force bred himself upon the indins. And we turned out to be even more powerfull,and beautiful and humble………what is wrong with being AMERICAN and not confused? Golly Horace it would be so kick-ass to see you take some of my medicine in the sweat lodge,,it’s only a few fired-hot rock people.It works much more better that prozac.
peace Horace think peace,
David O.
Horace :
Diana Joe, you Indians would still be wielding stone axes and living in teepees today if Europeans didn’t land in North America.
Feeling a bit superior Horace? Well I suppose since as a Jew that comes natural to you.
No matter, you are trolling, I mean, you are posting ‘provocative’ statements and your whole goal is to keep readers of this forum agitated.
tsk tsk
Daniel Maldonado
The Olmec, Toltec, Maya and Mexica had far greater civilizations than the euros did.
There was more people in Tenochtitlan than there was in london and madrid combined.
Please view:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9Xg28MhzcQ
Frank
Diana, I respect the native indians that are living in this country legally. I respect the Mexican-Mestizos that are living in Mexico or that are living here legally in this country. Where is our conflict?
Diana Joe
Tlazocamatli carnales David y Daniel. La onda con estos gueyes es obvia..el punto de ellos es de instigar y promover el ESPIRITU de contradiccion. Yo soy el producto de tres razas indigenas de Tenochtitlan..YOEME PEREPUCHA e AZTEKA CHICHMECA..todas estas raizes son las que me aseguran mi porvenir y mi caudencia en estas TIERRAS!
TIERRA Y LIBERTAD! Soy residente por medio de matrimonio al tribu Dine’..llevo por aqui mas de 12 anos y estoy muy agradecida de todoas las razas indegenas que estan luchando por los derechos humanos de los verdaderos heredores de AMERICA..venceremos cuando estos monstrous deje de mamantar!
A-ho!
ADELANTE LATINA LISTA!
Frank
Why if you are a full blooded native indian are you speaking Spanish rather than a native indian language? Spanish is a white European language.
David O.
Because he is bilingual. And you?
Diana Joe> Thank you for your comments.
Frank
Great, but most in here only want to claim their “indigenous” bloodlines and deny their Spanish roots and that was my point.
diana joe
Frank-I know several indigenous tongues..included are NORTH AMERICAN NATIVE TONGUES..and there you go with your linear thinking(full-blooded) and that stinkin’attitude-where in heck did you get that full blooded indin deal? From Disneyland? Disney-where rats run around all lookin’goofy, and big-headed barbierian dolls make people(children) believe in everything “make-belive”,but themselves? You know Frankie you are the most linear of all the responsees, and blatantly the most anal-retentive of all my contestants..you are why i love blogs! Blogs make us express ourselves freely as AMERICANs!So frankly darling i don’t give a damn about your ideals.It is here! Frankie the time, for all native people to reunite, and that we are boy- that we are! It is because of ideals such as yours that native americans have been, and are still being kept oppressed-what are you bilagonahs thinking? that natives only marry their own kind? The blood quantum crock of crap doesnt cut the cheese in native america-no mo’ master!no mo’![in fact the natives know for a fact that the government will pull the rug from under their foot any day now-and they will be LIED to again-the reservations will get cancelled and nobody will be able to defend their tribes because there is no SOVEREIGNTY}-oh, and by the way- There’s black natives,and theres Jap natives and theres yep! your worst nightmare frankie-Mexican-Hopis Mexican-Dine’ Mexican-Zuni,Mexican-Apache,and the list goes on! What the heck would you care to know about LOVE frankie?Also-and my spanish is highly polished -my US.Naval officer dad insisted that we speak write ,and perfect the spanish tongue-he said that one day we’d thank him for it! Thanks dad! My english is also the queens'(England) standard-my dad was a PROUD MEXICAN-AMERICAN that survived the depression he served in the US Navy ,and he visited the world! He brought back tons of information to us his children…we were allowed to live with diversity, and to respect everything with a life and (even the dead)”dia de los muertos”- around us. My father marked us as being of the white race on our birth records [he had his reckoning for this too]…you should’ve seen the circus when I entered elementary school-I am of beautiful cinnamoned skin-and those bilagonah administrators scratched angrily the “white” in the race box-pointed their finger in my 5 year-old face ,and said you are not white-never ever think that you ever will be! I haven’t stopped trying to tell all y’all linear crazed zenophobes that I ain’t white!I am one of the most blessed persons on this earth-i know several ancient indigenous tongues and I write, read, and eloquently speak my spanish and english ,and sign! I’ve learned to defend myself with silence,and that frankie doesn’t give you permission to redicule my beliefs.You insist that the spaniard dishonored the indins-you got that right bud-they down-right raped-dismembered and forced the tongue on millions of folk. Native North Americans speak english(they got their ITALIAN_SPANIARD “COLUMBUS”)-they are appaled by it!South Americans, Central Americans, and Mexicans speak spanish..in fact spanish is spoken so well amongst so many millions of people-that those that do not have the brain capacity to retain its dynamics end-up just hating…the tongue and its origins.uh but thats the norm with a lot of people that fail to be open-hearted and open-minded. The Mexicans Have orinal names..the Spaniards were not as advanced as you might wanna make be Frank-they did not have the capacity to undertake a true democracy-so they enslaved the natives cast out their tongue-and injected theirs. They did not realise that their lousy tactics of war and Manifest Destiny-were weak,and that people did flee into the four directions of the Earth-and here we all are FrankIe 500 plus years later..SURVIVING and THRIVING in and with our own traditions..indins.
diana joe
Frank-I know several indigenous tongues..included are NORTH AMERICAN NATIVE TONGUES..and there you go with your linear thinking(full-blooded) and that stinkin’attitude-where in heck did you get that full blooded indin deal? From Disneyland? Disney-where rats run around all lookin’goofy, and big-headed barbierian dolls make people(children) believe in everything “make-belive”,but themselves? You know Frankie you are the most linear of all the responsees, and blatantly the most anal-retentive of all my contestants..you are why i love blogs! Blogs make us express ourselves freely as AMERICANs!So frankly darling i don’t give a damn about your ideals.It is here! Frankie the time, for all native people to reunite, and that we are boy- that we are! It is because of ideals such as yours that native americans have been, and are still being kept oppressed-what are you bilagonahs thinking? that natives only marry their own kind? The blood quantum crock of crap doesnt cut the cheese in native america-no mo’ master!no mo’![in fact the natives know for a fact that the government will pull the rug from under their foot any day now-and they will be LIED to again-the reservations will get cancelled and nobody will be able to defend their tribes because there is no SOVEREIGNTY}-oh, and by the way- There’s black natives,and theres Jap natives and theres yep! your worst nightmare frankie-Mexican-Hopis Mexican-Dine’ Mexican-Zuni,Mexican-Apache,and the list goes on! What the heck would you care to know about LOVE frankie?Also-and my spanish is highly polished -my US.Naval officer dad insisted that we speak write ,and perfect the spanish tongue-he said that one day we’d thank him for it! Thanks dad! My english is also the queens'(England) standard-my dad was a PROUD MEXICAN-AMERICAN that survived the depression he served in the US Navy ,and he visited the world! He brought back tons of information to us his children…we were allowed to live with diversity, and to respect everything with a life and (even the dead)”dia de los muertos”- around us. My father marked us as being of the white race on our birth records [he had his reckoning for this too]…you should’ve seen the circus when I entered elementary school-I am of beautiful cinnamoned skin-and those bilagonah administrators scratched angrily the “white” in the race box-pointed their finger in my 5 year-old face ,and said you are not white-never ever think that you ever will be! I haven’t stopped trying to tell all y’all linear crazed zenophobes that I ain’t white!I am one of the most blessed persons on this earth-i know several ancient indigenous tongues and I write, read, and eloquently speak my spanish and english ,and sign! I’ve learned to defend myself with silence,and that frankie doesn’t give you permission to redicule my beliefs.You insist that the spaniard dishonored the indins-you got that right bud-they down-right raped-dismembered and forced the tongue on millions of folk. Native North Americans speak english(they got their ITALIAN_SPANIARD “COLUMBUS”)-they are appaled by it!South Americans, Central Americans, and Mexicans speak spanish..in fact spanish is spoken so well amongst so many millions of people-that those that do not have the brain capacity to retain its dynamics end-up just hating…the tongue and its origins.uh but thats the norm with a lot of people that fail to be open-hearted and open-minded. The Mexicans Have orinal names..the Spaniards were not as advanced as you might wanna make be Frank-they did not have the capacity to undertake a true democracy-so they enslaved the natives cast out their tongue-and injected theirs. They did not realise that their lousy tactics of war and Manifest Destiny-were weak,and that people did flee into the four directions of the Earth-and here we all are FrankIe 500 plus years later..SURVIVING and THRIVING in and with our own traditions..indins.
David O.
Diana Joe,
Your beautiful words
need no reply.
You will get one nonetheless in the form of,”..but most in here only want to claim their “indigenous” bloodlines and deny their Spanish roots..”, or a boring variation of the same theme.
Frank
Diana, I used to work in an Indian Casino as a Controller. I got to know many Native Americans. You are the first one that I have ever encounted that had the attitude that you do. Is there some kind of secret society within the reservations or tribes now that is conspiring to do away with whitey and start another American-Indian war?
None of these Native Americans I knew were born in Mexico, so they weren’t Mexicans ever. They were all born here within the bounderies of the U.S.
It appears you have some unresolved issues with White people in general with your past. Maybe some counseling would help you. Living in the past isn’t healthy and it isn’t healthy to hate all White people for the sins of a few.
Are you finally admitting that you do have Spanish ancestors? No matter what they did, they are still just as much a part of you genetically as the native indian side. If you have a hatred for those Spanish- White ancestors, thats your progative but don’t take it out on other White people who are not Spaniards and never were.
Natalie Grace
Hi Frank & Horace: Do you know the definition of mestizo? It means of “mixed” ethnicity. A person of mixed parentage. Though it is highly and officially documented as being of spanish ancestry. Not everything in print holds factual. The word itself is “mixed”. Even the European Americans are of “mixed” ethnic blood…e.g. german, scottish, english, irish and such. So in a sense everyone is a “MESTIZO”. I’m reasoning you keep usage of the word “MESTIZO” when referring to the Mexicans/Mexican-Americans as a racial slur. This too is subtle racism. No one can escape the painful past and no one is of a pure race. Humans look down on others everyday. No one can say they’ve never have been a racist at some point in their lives. Furthermore, we (sorry, but yes we and I am not apologizing for being of Mexican descent nor shameful of my heritage) know what has been rooted in the anglo people as children especially the older anglos. It is in the history books, media, personal confessions by anglo acquaintances(?)who knows they might be trying to decipher something out of me and personal interviews of elderly people discussing themselves as partakers in their teens and early twenties in the 40’s, 50’s and 60’s marches of demonstrations of racism and hatred towards all others but whites. To me and many others this type of information being passed on to children is shallow-brained, ill-mannered and narrow-minded. Discrimination also takes place at the most personal levels between all groups of people. Example: established high-income Suburbia vs migratory welfare recipient Trailer Park tenant……OH, for the book “Latino Challenge to Black America” We are not piggy-backing of anything you’ve done. We “The Sleeping Giant” are just fed up like the Blacks became fed up and are waking up to a lot of nonsense. Piggybacking= the lowrider car (latino origin) being used in all the BET videos by black rappers.
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